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We have seen the codex though. Some dakka poster took screenshot from a stream where the gretchin keyword on the mek gun datasheet was visible.

I didn't claim to know how grot shield works. I specifically asked how it works so how can you claim I was wrong when I was asking how it works :lol:

But we have seen image of mek gun datasheet. It has gretchin keyword. Go check yourself if you don't believe but would be weird not to have exception to the rule not be in datasheet if unit is supposed to have exception to the rule.

The boyz are back up on the webstore, and yes, they are now on 32mm bases.

So which is better? Meganobz at 35, shoota-kans at 45, or the shoota-dread at 95?

Now that the codex is out, and I'm pretty sure that we have at least a half decent chance at winning a game, I need to expand my small ork horde. Usually play small, 1k games, (so 'nauts are not really an option) but I like mixing it up a bit and not staying predictable. Can you guys give me a hand and let me know what you consider an auto include, or most important:

Do not yet have:
Big Mek with KFF
MANZ
any of the mek gunz (looking at you traktor)
bikes
stormboyz

Only have:
4 burnas
4 lootas
5 kanz
1 standard battlewagon
will be getting Start Collecting box for 1 Dread and painboy
will be getting single wierdboy model
5 homemade kommandos
5 boyz with rokkits (homemade tankbustas)
1 trukk and boyz

So, nobz with bigchoppas and a deepstrike. Really choppy for relatively cheap. What about the ammo runts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pismakron wrote:
So which is better? Meganobz at 35, shoota-kans at 45, or the shoota-dread at 95?

That's a tough question to answer. But deepstriking meganobz are gona be decent to good. Especially if you push some saws in there. Not sure about power level but 10 double saw manz will one-shot a knight if they don't suffer overwatch. And if they make a charge of course.
Footslogging is not clear yet. Depending on how grot shields work.

3 deff dreads are gona be a good pick for deepstrike. They will likely fit into 20 pl requirement and will end up as 3 separate squads with around 70% of making the charge each. If run as evil sunz of course. I'd not waste points on shootas. They are cheap enough to max out their klaws. Each dread will deal 6, and rarely 9 wounds to a knight. Ain't bad for merely 115 pts or so.

3 Deff Dreads have been confimed at 16 PL, 10 MANz are 20.

Deff dread is 55 points bare bones, with 10 for each saw (AP-2 D2) and 15 for each klaw (AP-3 D3)

It's a bit blurry in the video but I think burna boyz changed from being able to take up to three spannas to "for every 5 burna boyz 1 can be a spanner". That would be a bit of a shame since I think there could be some mileage out of a 5 burna boy unit where 3 are spanners armed with the new and improved kustom mega blastas. D6 damage is nothing to scoff at.

Not that I'm going to run them personally but even a cheap deathskulls 4 burna boyz and 1 spanner with the KMB might be a decent idea since that weapon allows you to use all those rerolls

Huh, deff skulls spannas might actually be worth using.

I actually have three of them, simply because I wanted to build some mini-meks

What do people reckon are our best MSU options for deathskulls re-rolls?

Could see spamming trukks with rokkits containing boyz mobs with 1 rokkit and 1 klaw. I believe that'd be 167pts for some annoying units to deal with.

Lone meks with KMBs?

Could do lone rokkit warbuggies from the index too? Lone koptas with kopta rockets?

I like the idea of orks that essentially have guiliman re-rolls, even if you have to take some weird stuff to achieve it!

 DoomMouse wrote:
What do people reckon are our best MSU options for deathskulls re-rolls?

Could see spamming trukks with rokkits containing boyz mobs with 1 rokkit and 1 klaw. I believe that'd be 167pts for some annoying units to deal with.

Lone meks with KMBs?

Could do lone rokkit warbuggies from the index too? Lone koptas with kopta rockets?

I like the idea of orks that essentially have guiliman re-rolls, even if you have to take some weird stuff to achieve it!

The traktor Kannon (assuming it gets Kulture traits) would be good for this, as it would maximize the auto hit into good wound and damage potentials.
SAG Meks will get better than mediocre considering how many random elements the SAG has.
Kannon shells and Grabbin Klaw on the battelwagon

All of these models would also get 6++ which might let their multi wound profile tank a few more wounds

I mean the big mek with SAG is an incredibly scary sniper with the deathskulls warlord trait IMO. Can snipe characters, gets to reroll a hit, wound & damage die. I wouldn't be comfortable standing in the open with anything knowing he's there, especially since the potential mortal wounds are now in addition to the normal damage.

So; the strategem "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" gives an Ork vehicle with FLY +1 to hit against other units with FLY.

Is there something we can do with that and a Chinork Warcopta+10passengers?

Due to the way Open Topped work, it can pass off that +1 to-hit to its 10 passengers. - I'm not sure if we have a 10 model shooting unit that's strong enough to make use of it; but it's fun to think about possibilities.

fe40k wrote:
So; the strategem "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" gives an Ork vehicle with FLY +1 to hit against other units with FLY.

Is there something we can do with that and a Chinork Warcopta+10passengers?

Due to the way Open Topped work, it can pass off that +1 to-hit to its 10 passengers. - I'm not sure if we have a 10 model shooting unit that's strong enough to make use of it; but it's fun to think about possibilities.

Hmm, that's a great little sneaky taktik if it indeed does work like that. Fill it with tankbustas and fire at vehicles with FLY that aren't hard to hit like hovering things or repulsors. Easily worth 1CP in a lot of situations then

Did I read right that Boyz are on 32mm based now?

Are we going to start a new tactics thread on Saturday?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boris420 wrote:
Did I read right that Boyz are on 32mm based now?

Yes they are, but you can still use your old 25mm bases

I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

Kans not getting Klan traits killed my interest in running a Kan wall, shame really. Was intending to buy at least 6 and maybe 9 of them but I guess I'll just get Dredds instead. I will have to wait for the codex but do you guys Shooty BW's will be decent with rumored (disproven?) BS4+ and re shoot one gun? If so I'll get 2 of them but if the 4+ was a lie again will not bother with them either.
Learning the above put a bit of a damper on my enthusiasm for this Codex but on the other hand I'm glad I didn't go out and buy the Kans a few weeks ago like I initially planned.

PiñaColada wrote:

fe40k wrote:
So; the strategem "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" gives an Ork vehicle with FLY +1 to hit against other units with FLY.

Is there something we can do with that and a Chinork Warcopta+10passengers?

Due to the way Open Topped work, it can pass off that +1 to-hit to its 10 passengers. - I'm not sure if we have a 10 model shooting unit that's strong enough to make use of it; but it's fun to think about possibilities.

Hmm, that's a great little sneaky taktik if it indeed does work like that. Fill it with tankbustas and fire at vehicles with FLY that aren't hard to hit like hovering things or repulsors. Easily worth 1CP in a lot of situations then

My first thought was Tankbustas as well. You could go 8 Tankbustas and 2 squigs; that weakens the power of strategems, but could help against ground vehicles. Alternatively, you could go 10 tankbustas, and have a bunch of re-rolling +1 rokkits; which could couple with "More Dakka", and potentially the "Shoot twice" stratagem from Bad Moonz - I'm not sure how well the math works out versus other options in both points, and CP.

Speaking of options, another factor in this concept is Kultur choice. Bad Moonz offers the most in terms of raw rolling output, between both RR1's and Shoot Twice stratagem; but that limits you to deep striking (which has its own competitions), or finding a way to make 16"move+24" range work, since advancing could really suck in terms of hit penalties. -- The other viable option is Evil Sunz, just so you have the option of zooming up the board at 16"move+8"advance+24"range. You lose RR1's and Shoot Twice, but you're not obligated to deep strike.

I think it's going to come down to whether or not you plan on deep striking, want the option open at the start of the match, and how much CP your list has/can spare.

Two other units you could put in the Chinork Warkopta are; 10 Lootas, for d3x10+2d3 Autocannon equivalents, all for the price of 170+80 points. You'd be having massive hit penalties unless you used the "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" or "More Dakka", to hit on 5+. The problem with this plan, is well, Lootas; and the fact that you have to declare "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" before you get to roll for the Deffguns amount of shots. -- The second unit you could use is 10 Flash Gits; add in the Chinork Warkopta with 2x Rattler Kannon and you have... 300+112 points of models that yield 30+4d6 S5, AP-2, D* damage; that hit on 5+/6+. Throw in "Long Uncontrolled Bursts"/"More Dakka", and "Shoot Twice", and well... that's a hell of a lot of RR1, hitting on 4+/5+, generating new shots attacks.

Ultimately, it's going to come down to the place you want your flying dakkabus to have; how prevalent fliers are in your meta (there's quite a bit of FLY in general though), and how many points+CP you're willing to invest to this strategy.

Bad Moonz is great, but expensive in CP. Evil Sunz is more generalist, weaker at final burst, but more mobile and doesn't need to deep strike to be effective.

EDIT: Oh, right; Flash Gits don't get a Klan - or if they do, it has to be Freebootaz. Well, there goes that plan - shame, it actually sounded fun. I should know better...

Just following up on the basing issues : what is the size of the new bike bases? 60x35 or 75x42?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

When you deep strike in a unit of three deffdreads, thats the point where they are "deployed" right? So they can all charge seperate targets then?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
I was experimenting a bit with listbuilding (too early-stage to post) and stumbled on a problem: what unit is best to deal with infantry holed up in ruins? My local meta is full of ruin-hoggers so this could become a problem... My first thought would be the Snazzwagon, any other contenders? Mek Gunz? Lootas? Flash Gitz? It's mostly for games around 1k.

I have a very similar problem in my meta. Snazzwagon is one idea. Trukk Nobs another. Dakkajet does OK in my experience.

Keen to hear other thoughts on this though.

Trukknobz with Kombiskorcha? Seems expensive... unless you mean going for CC which is hard with having to charge up floors. I like the Dakkajet suggestion but me playing on a 4x4 board means that every Lascannon and Missile launcher on the board is going to get aimed at it Another though would maybe be the Gunwagon... overkill on normal Marines but a very good Primaris deleter. But also prohibitively expensive probably. I really hope it has that BS4... Snazzwagon seems to have a good middle ground between amount of shots and shot strength/ AP to clear infantry, and you can probably get 2 for the price of a kitted out Gunwagon. Of course it's also going to go down twice as fast

 JeffVimes wrote:
Just following up on the basing issues : what is the size of the new bike bases? 60x35 or 75x42?

75mm

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

When you deep strike in a unit of three deffdreads, thats the point where they are "deployed" right? So they can all charge seperate targets then?

Yup once deployed they split so they have to start close to each other, but after that they can go wild. Deathskulls would be awesome on them on every level, but the 20% increase to making their charge is too good to turn down as it makes their charge reliable.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

When you deep strike in a unit of three deffdreads, thats the point where they are "deployed" right? So they can all charge seperate targets then?

Yup once deployed they split so they have to start close to each other, but after that they can go wild. Deathskulls would be awesome on them on every level, but the 20% increase to making their charge is too good to turn down as it makes their charge reliable.

Awesome, that sounds really interesting, even if its just for fun.

Only problem is Id have to drop a small fortune on deff dreads

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

When you deep strike in a unit of three deffdreads, thats the point where they are "deployed" right? So they can all charge seperate targets then?

Yup once deployed they split so they have to start close to each other, but after that they can go wild. Deathskulls would be awesome on them on every level, but the 20% increase to making their charge is too good to turn down as it makes their charge reliable.

Awesome, that sounds really interesting, even if its just for fun.

Only problem is Id have to drop a small fortune on deff dreads

Thankfully I also play Space marines and just so happen to have a stock of "freshly looted" dreadnoughts. I do wonder how they compare to meganobz however. Anyone have the final points on dreads and meganobz? I can't find the point leaks. :(

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I can see two units of 3 each deff dreads coming out of deepstrike as a solid options. 6 charges all with around a 72% charge chance each (evil sunz) each spitting out respectable damage profiles with 6 attacks and being t7 8 wounds 3+ is not going to get washed away too terribly easily. Saturate the field with one or two 30 blobs of either da jumped boyz or stormboyz and you have a strong beta strike.

That leaves your core which I can see as being transport based mech assault or shooty booty gunlines boyz. Basic Nobs are 14 points base and a big choppa is 5 pts so 19 points for them each inside a trukk or battlewagon is not a terrible proposition especially with an ammo runt to take the hit when their transport dies. I don't see the kustom shootas being worth it for them even at 2 points a model. They are still BS5+ under the best circumstances and even with say 40 shots that's a whole lot of diddly, but only twice as much diddly as basic shootas for 20 more points. However that volume of dice is appealing in of itself.

Meganobz out of deepstrike could be solid as well. I'd have to compare the point per performance to the deff dread strategy to properly compare.

When you deep strike in a unit of three deffdreads, thats the point where they are "deployed" right? So they can all charge seperate targets then?

Yup once deployed they split so they have to start close to each other, but after that they can go wild. Deathskulls would be awesome on them on every level, but the 20% increase to making their charge is too good to turn down as it makes their charge reliable.

Awesome, that sounds really interesting, even if its just for fun.

Only problem is Id have to drop a small fortune on deff dreads

Thankfully I also play Space marines and just so happen to have a stock of "freshly looted" dreadnoughts. I do wonder how they compare to meganobz however. Anyone have the final points on dreads and meganobz? I can't find the point leaks. :(

Well lucky you

I really like the deff dread model, but at $50 a pop I dunno. Plus i like having multiples of things so id probably want atleast 3. the SC box is an option, but I dont really need anything else in the box besides a box or 2 of nobz to replace my AOBR ones.

Sorry I missed this, but have we confirmed the Battlewagon and Trukks cannot carry a unit from a different clan?

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sorry I missed this, but have we confirmed the Battlewagon and Trukks cannot carry a unit from a different clan?

If you look at strikingscorpions video review of the codex you can see that a gunwagon can carry up to 12 <CLAN> infantry models. Stands to reason that restriction is there for every other transport, so yes?
I honestly think this is a blanket change coming in CA, it was pretty gamey to begin with

PiñaColada wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sorry I missed this, but have we confirmed the Battlewagon and Trukks cannot carry a unit from a different clan?

If you look at strikingscorpions video review of the codex you can see that a gunwagon can carry up to 12 <CLAN> infantry models. Stands to reason that restriction is there for every other transport, so yes?
I honestly think this is a blanket change coming in CA, it was pretty gamey to begin with

It IS fluffy, as what self-respecting suns driver is going to cart around a bunch of bad moons or deffskuls?

It gives me grief because i don't know now what i am going to put in all of my waaaagh!ing trukks.