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The Upgrade to the flashgitz snazzguns is pretty significant, alot of things you can mow down now regardless of clan affiliation.

PiñaColada wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sorry I missed this, but have we confirmed the Battlewagon and Trukks cannot carry a unit from a different clan?

If you look at strikingscorpions video review of the codex you can see that a gunwagon can carry up to 12 <CLAN> infantry models. Stands to reason that restriction is there for every other transport, so yes?
I honestly think this is a blanket change coming in CA, it was pretty gamey to begin with

Can anyone other then DE ride in someone else's vehicle?

The Chinork will still be able to unless there is a change to in a few weeks with the FAQ

 Dojo wrote:
The Upgrade to the flashgitz snazzguns is pretty significant, alot of things you can mow down now regardless of clan affiliation.

Yeah they're solid. Nob statline, solid gun and better than average BS all for 30 points. My only real concern with them is that they REQUIRE transports and how they compare to Lootas who are 17 points. They're also locked to the freebootaz tag and I don't think they benefit from that if they are in another clan detachment even if they don't mess up that clan's bonuses where as the Lootas can fit into any clan easier.

Flashgits suffer from being extremely expensive, and more importantly, not being able to shoot twice (since it’s a bad moon stratagem).

I don’t j is, I just feel they require too much investment (chinork warkopta), with not enough payout; thanks to the lack of stratagems.

I mean, I guess we’ll see what the Freebootaz stratagem is, but... man, I really just wanted them to shoot twice with 5+ ddd.

vindicare0412 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sorry I missed this, but have we confirmed the Battlewagon and Trukks cannot carry a unit from a different clan?

If you look at strikingscorpions video review of the codex you can see that a gunwagon can carry up to 12 <CLAN> infantry models. Stands to reason that restriction is there for every other transport, so yes?
I honestly think this is a blanket change coming in CA, it was pretty gamey to begin with

Can anyone other then DE ride in someone else's vehicle?

The Chinork will still be able to unless there is a change to in a few weeks with the FAQ

IG. Not being able to ride is basically space marine only thing. Well until orks. Figures orks gets same rule as one of the weakest codexes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fe40k wrote:
Flashgits suffer from being extremely expensive, and more importantly, not being able to shoot twice (since it’s a bad moon stratagem).

I don’t j is, I just feel they require too much investment (chinork warkopta), with not enough payout; thanks to the lack of stratagems.

I mean, I guess we’ll see what the Freebootaz stratagem is, but... man, I really just wanted them to shoot twice with 5+ ddd.

Yep not convinced on them. D2 is nice yeah but price hike and the issue with them was generally 24" range and being blown to pieces. S6 helps sometimes but 5->6 is one of the least useful S upgrades.

Hitting on 5+/6+ on first turn sucks and then generally being easy to remove for points...Urgh.

fe40k wrote:
Flashgits suffer from being extremely expensive, and more importantly, not being able to shoot twice (since it’s a bad moon stratagem).

I don’t j is, I just feel they require too much investment (chinork warkopta), with not enough payout; thanks to the lack of stratagems.

I mean, I guess we’ll see what the Freebootaz stratagem is, but... man, I really just wanted them to shoot twice with 5+ ddd.

Freeboota stratagem is a really crappy orbital strike type thing. 3CP pick d3 spots 6" away from each other, everything within 6 roll a D6 for . On a 5+ (-1 if they are a character) they take d3 mortal wounds. Once per game. Their relic is just a once a game you can ignore morale. Their trait is pretty darn solid once it kicks off, but their warlord (re-roll 1s to hit in fight phase within 6) is meh, their relic is bad and their stratagem is laughable. They are not strictly shooty like the bad moonz are, but their prime unit, Flashgitz, are and as such do suffer.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I've been thinking on it, and I think there's some really cheesy things we could do RAW with the phasing out.

So with the Index vs Codex discussion, you're allowed to take any wargear if it exists in the index (But with the codex rules). Because GW are bad at writing rules that means we can do the following:

Take 1-5 Ammo Grots with Flashgits
Take 1-5 Ammo Grots with Nobz
Take 1 Cybork with Nobz
Take 1-5 Gretchin with Kustom Mega Guns
Take Attack Squig with Warboss
Take the Wargear option of "Big bomm" for Koptas as well as the default "Big bomm".

Anything else?

We can still take Bug Guns

pismakron wrote:
So which is better? Meganobz at 35, shoota-kans at 45, or the shoota-dread at 95?

kans are bad. too similar to meganobz, but vehicles and cant benefit from clan traits. also cant take in large mob due to low morale.

so the question is dreads or manz... well even with the evilsuns trait you will struggeling to get em up and close. so the only real option is to teleport them. but manz can do that without the use of CP. with grotshields etc they will survive even if going second and can then jump whereever you want em.

after a bit of sloppy mathhammer... 3manz vs 1dread... their pretty even in dmg output
dread with 4 klaws is 115 points
3 manz with 2x2saws are 119 points
thats 6 s10 ap -4 2d + 3 s10 ap-3 d3d at ws4+ = about 7dmg
vs 6 s10 ap-3 3d at ws3+ = about 8,33dmg

What do you guys think about a deffkopta or two just to be annoying and jump up and assault a unit of ruins campers on the 2nd floor?

I know they lost free vertical movement, but 14" isn't exactly limiting, and they''re small enough of a profile to squeeze into a spot that a unit of massed storm boys or whatever else cannot.

Obviously they're not going to be killing anything, but that's the idea. Having seen an opponent use a blight drone against my dark angels devastators in this way, after LOS blocking behind a building, he was able to totally put their shooting out of commission just by jumping up and saying "Hai!"

I want that ability, and a cheap, mobile little derpcopter seems like a fun way to do that.

deffkoptaz are 16" movement in a evil suns detachment, since they got the speedfreaks tag

Put Flash Gitz in transport. Move transport to midboard near terrain T1. Opponent reduces transport to 0 wounds. Roll to expode place Gitz within 3" of transport in terrain. Roll to remove Gitz. Leftover Gitz are on the board before removing transport. Use the loot it strategem to improve their save from 4+ to 3+ and being in cover will make them 2+. Enjoy your mega armored Flash Gitz.

RedNoak wrote:
deffkoptaz are 16" movement in a evil suns detachment, since they got the speedfreaks tag

I know that, but I haven't decided on evil sunz yet.

Partly because a 6++ and a reroll for hit and wound sounds appealing.

RedNoak wrote:


after a bit of sloppy mathhammer... 3manz vs 1dread... their pretty even in dmg output
dread with 4 klaws is 115 points
3 manz with 2x2saws are 119 points
thats 6 s10 ap -4 2d + 3 s10 ap-3 d3d at ws4+ = about 7dmg
vs 6 s10 ap-3 3d at ws3+ = about 8,33dmg

KS MANZ get an extra attack so it’s 8 s10 AP -4 d2 attacks for them dude. How does that effect the math hammer?

oh right i forgot... well then its 8,75dmg so slightly above

thats against t5 or lower and 3+ save btw... but the ratio should be the same for higher T / save targets

Another thing to consider when comparing meganobz versus dreads is the durability and mobility. Mobility wise the dread will win out with it's base move of six versus the nobs' 4 four. However Nobz can move up and down floors of a ruin which can be HUGE in some circumstances. Durability is an interesting one because they are durable in different ways. The dread is 8 wounds at t7 and 3+ where as the nobs are 9 wounds at t4 with a 2+ save. Damage can be spilled over and wasted on the MANZm but for every three wounds they lose 33% of their effectiveness and the dread does not care until it is 100% dead, but there are no wasted wounds against it.

So if im calculating correctly, for 214 points you can fill out a battalion of grots for 5CP (3x10 + 2x weirdboyz) Given how good our stratagems are with the codex, that seems very worth it.

Question is, is it worth taking a runtherd so they stay on the objectives? Am I wrong in thinking taking a cheap Battalion like this is worth it?



ALSO: If I wanted to do a deepstrike list (say teleport in a gorkanaut and some MANz/Deff Dreads) do you think it would be worth holding off on Da Jump 1st turn? If I jump some boyz across the table with most of my points already off the board in DS every gun in the game is going to be pointed at them. I think it might be worth skipping it 1st turn until theres a lot of stuff in the opponents face turn 2

 Billagio wrote:
So if im calculating correctly, for 214 points you can fill out a battalion of grots for 5CP (3x10 + 2x weirdboyz) Given how good our stratagems are with the codex, that seems very worth it.

Question is, is it worth taking a runtherd so they stay on the objectives? Am I wrong in thinking taking a cheap Battalion like this is worth it?



ALSO: If I wanted to do a deepstrike list (say teleport in a gorkanaut and some MANz/Deff Dreads) do you think it would be worth holding off on Da Jump 1st turn? If I jump some boyz across the table with most of my points already off the board in DS every gun in the game is going to be pointed at them. I think it might be worth skipping it 1st turn until theres a lot of stuff in the opponents face turn 2

You could deepstrike one of the units of Gretchin. There's not much durability to them, but a 5 man unit of Intercessors would have to make every single shot against them to wipe them out. basically there's enough wounds there that the opponent would be forced to target them or be tied up for a round or two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Da Jump turn 1

So, as i see it, orks are shaping out to be the most powerful mellee-betta strike in the game right now. Thanks to lots of deepstrikes, good mellee units and well above average chances to make the charge.

And now we face the problem of dealing with enemy bauble wrap t1.

Some speculations on the options we've got.
- a couple footslogging shootaboy squads. Potentially with bigshootas. If they are evil sunz, theg have higher threat range and get no penalty for shooting after advansing. Wierdboy can deepstrike one of the squads for a potential suicide chaff-clearing charge. They might even tie up a couple units behind the screen if they get lucky. And if they somehow don't get wiped out or get to go second and suffer casualties, can outflank with a greentide strategem.
- deepstriking 40 grots. Now they won't do that much damage but they have a potential to be used as grot shields. Besides, we might be able to use the trick mid game to protect from overwatch. Will be really good vs rhose knight and tau devastating flamers. My manz will be much safer this way.
- Get somethung shooty to blast them from across the board. Now that's a difficult question what's good enough to deal with like 40 guardsmen and not be a complete waste after that. Planes? Bubblechukkas? Shoota wagons? I'm not sure we even have real options here.

I think that the shootaboyz route seems to be the easiest and probably the best.

 koooaei wrote:
So, as i see it, orks are shaping out to be the most powerful mellee-betta strike in the game right now. Thanks to lots of deepstrikes, good mellee units and well above average chances to make the charge.

And now we face the problem of dealing with enemy bauble wrap t1.

Some speculations on the options we've got.
- a couple footslogging shootaboy squads. Potentially with bigshootas. If they are evil sunz, theg have higher threat range and get no penalty for shooting after advansing. Wierdboy can deepstrike one of the squads for a potential suicide chaff-clearing charge. They might even tie up a couple units behind the screen if they get lucky. And if they somehow don't get wiped out or get to go second and suffer casualties, can outflank with a greentide strategem.
- deepstriking 40 grots. Now they won't do that much damage but they have a potential to be used as grot shields. Besides, we might be able to use the trick mid game to protect from overwatch. Will be really good vs rhose knight and tau devastating flamers. My manz will be much safer this way.
- Get somethung shooty to blast them from across the board. Now that's a difficult question what's good enough to deal with like 40 guardsmen and not be a complete waste after that. Planes? Bubblechukkas? Shoota wagons? I'm not sure we even have real options here.

I think that the shootaboyz route seems to be the easiest and probably the best.

I came to the same conclusion and have also decided that our first challenge is screen clearing turn 1.

In my list I'm goin to try a maxed out unit of bikes. I'm hoping I have too many other, "scarier" threats that the opponent doesn't blast them off the table turn one. We also have the 2 CP cover stratagem to help with that. If they don't focus them or if I get first turn I feel pretty confident I'll be blowing their screen away with a combination of dakkaguns and charging. The Kustom Boosta Blasta with its 4 burnas might be useful here too.

I'm a sucker for the new stuff so I'm planning to charge the Boosta Blasta and Scrapjet into their lines turn 1, hopefully into tougher targets to try and get the mortal wounds off. Ideally I'll also be falling back with trike boss (who also goes into chaff turn 1 but aims to pile in to better targets) who can use his strat to deal more mortal wounds before charging in again (due to Evil Sunz trait), along with the Boosta Blasta and Scrapjet for more MW. From there the rest of the army can follow up to finish the opponent off.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I came to the same conclusion and have also decided that our first challenge is screen clearing turn 1.

In my list I'm goin to try a maxed out unit of bikes. I'm hoping I have too many other, "scarier" threats that the opponent doesn't blast them off the table turn one. We also have the 2 CP cover stratagem to help with that. If they don't focus them or if I get first turn I feel pretty confident I'll be blowing their screen away with a combination of dakkaguns and charging. The Kustom Boosta Blasta with its 4 burnas might be useful here too.

I'm a sucker for the new stuff so I'm planning to charge the Boosta Blasta and Scrapjet into their lines turn 1, hopefully into tougher targets to try and get the mortal wounds off. Ideally I'll also be falling back with trike boss (who also goes into chaff turn 1 but aims to pile in to better targets) who can use his strat to deal more mortal wounds before charging in again (due to Evil Sunz trait), along with the Boosta Blasta and Scrapjet for more MW. From there the rest of the army can follow up to finish the opponent off.

The problem I have with charging the KBB is that while it may deal some mortal wounds, it really doesn't want to be in CC. It has no profile there so it really needs to either be a blood axe unit (not going to happen on my part) or you need to make sure that there's enough support in CC that the enemy dies and you're free to fire next turn. Well either that or you're charging something that wants to be in CC even less than you.. The same problem obviously exists with the megatrakk skrapjet but to a much lesser degree since it can actually hurt things in CC even after dealing those mortal wounds, not sure if that's still enough to forgoe shooting next turn

Which Kultur is best for Weirdboys?
Was was thinking Deathskulls for the ObSec, 6++, but unfortunately it can't reroll damage on smite because it is only when shooting or fighting...

Maybe Snakebites for the fnp against peril wounds.

PiñaColada wrote:
The problem I have with charging the KBB is that while it may deal some mortal wounds, it really doesn't want to be in CC. It has no profile there so it really needs to either be a blood axe unit (not going to happen on my part) or you need to make sure that there's enough support in CC that the enemy dies and you're free to fire next turn. Well either that or you're charging something that wants to be in CC even less than you.. The same problem obviously exists with the megatrakk skrapjet but to a much lesser degree since it can actually hurt things in CC even after dealing those mortal wounds, not sure if that's still enough to forgoe shooting next turn

I am absolutely planning to obliterate the enemy I charge on turn 1 yea. 12 warbikes, KBB, MTSJ and Trikeboss should do it (in an ideal world). Possibly add the SJD if I roll 3+ to advance.

For me its all about target saturation. My concerns turn 2 are less because then (like you, I think?) I'll be charging a Deffrolla Bone Breaker with 3d6 charge, 2+ MW generation and 7-12 Str 10, 2d attacks. With a MW aura if enemy units stay in combat. That is a rather big, red problem.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
The problem I have with charging the KBB is that while it may deal some mortal wounds, it really doesn't want to be in CC. It has no profile there so it really needs to either be a blood axe unit (not going to happen on my part) or you need to make sure that there's enough support in CC that the enemy dies and you're free to fire next turn. Well either that or you're charging something that wants to be in CC even less than you.. The same problem obviously exists with the megatrakk skrapjet but to a much lesser degree since it can actually hurt things in CC even after dealing those mortal wounds, not sure if that's still enough to forgoe shooting next turn

I am absolutely planning to obliterate the enemy I charge on turn 1 yea. 12 warbikes, KBB, MTSJ and Trikeboss should do it (in an ideal world). Possibly add the SJD if I roll 3+ to advance.

For me its all about target saturation. My concerns turn 2 are less because then (like you, I think?) I'll be charging a Deffrolla Bone Breaker with 3d6 charge, 2+ MW generation and 7-12 Str 10, 2d attacks. With a MW aura if enemy units stay in combat. That is a rather big, red problem.

Zog yes I will! Although I hope that the bonebreaka with rezemekkas redder armour might be able to squeeze in a T1 charge every now and then, especially if I don't get to go first. I'm also thinking MSU warbike squads might actually be pretty decent to be honest at 74/82 points to soak up overwatch/tie up units/get a couple of hits in. The dakkaguns are going to be fairly solid at cutting down chaff out of cover, hopefully enough to be able to sneak through their lines. A 10 man nob unit all with big choppas & kustom shootas + 2 ammo runts in a trukk with a wrecking ball is something like 285 points, that's also a pretty decent threat IMO (and they are a decent target for the boarding action strat). Unfortunately I don't have time to play any games in the next month or so but at least that gives me time to do some finkin'

I want to like the gunwagon but I'm not sure it's worth it. If we could place mek gunz on it I'd be tempted, or if FW updates the supa-kannon version

Im pretty sure "Da Krunch" is tailor made for helping wittle down a screen.
step 1 cast "Da Krunch" 1.5 (hope it happens twice)
step 2 shooting from highvolume source like shootas or bikes
Step 3 charge
step 4 loot everything and laugh until your lungs cave in.
thats how i would do it.

 Dojo wrote:
Im pretty sure "Da Krunch" is tailor made for helping wittle down a screen.
step 1 cast "Da Krunch" 1.5 (hope it happens twice)
step 2 shooting from highvolume source like shootas or bikes
Step 3 charge
step 4 loot everything and laugh until your lungs cave in.
thats how i would do it.

Depends on the screen. Guardsmen come in blobs of 10, in that case a smite will probably do better. In general I don't think da krunch is all that good, unless you know there are going to be huge blobs of cultists/daemons/conscripts etc on the field I'd just pick another spell. It's fun and if it does go off twice it can really deal some damage but I don't think I'll pick it, although I only use 1 weirdboy (warphead from now on)

Bigger issue is that it's fairly hard to keep weirdboy safe AND not amidst bazillion orks making perils surprisingly easy. Do you really want to waste MW's on chaff and have highish risk for perilling?

I treat my weirdboys as one shot tools as odds of getting 2-3 wounds from peril is annoyingly high and once that's done odds of spell failing due to dying to peril is too high. Nevermind downside of having character to die with! (vp's etc)

tneva82 wrote:
Bigger issue is that it's fairly hard to keep weirdboy safe AND not amidst bazillion orks making perils surprisingly easy. Do you really want to waste MW's on chaff and have highish risk for perilling?

I treat my weirdboys as one shot tools as odds of getting 2-3 wounds from peril is annoyingly high and once that's done odds of spell failing due to dying to peril is too high. Nevermind downside of having character to die with! (vp's etc)

Well the waaagh energy now maxes out at +3 so the risk of perils is lower. Honestly, that doesn't really feel like a nerf to me, more of a side grade. Sure it's going to result in some smites that are actually stoppable but it also means that your average warp charge is 10, which is a real nice number IMO. I suppose the skorched gitbonez gubbin is there if you feel like you need an additional +1

Edit: The nerf that they did receive is that grots no longer count towards the waagh energy. That's a bit of a let down

Ah hadn't heard of the +3 but still that's been what I often get and still peril annoyingly often. Especially as after peril 66% times you don't often want to risk casting with that weirdboy anymore.

With death of footsloggin boyz lack of grots is bit of a bummer though. That's big deal.

Is the new bonebreaka BW variant open topped? The gunwagon I think for sure has the ard case because of the turret on top. If the bonebreaka is not open topped, can the standard BW get a deff rolla?? I am really intrigued with taking a BW w/ deff roll and filling it with burna boyz for ramming speed damage, deff rolla hits and flaming some gitz.

Maybe blood axe kulture would be best for these guys as well. Since advancing and shooting doesnt effect burna hits, the ability to pull out of combat and set gak on fire again sounds like th best option.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Is the new bonebreaka BW variant open topped? The gunwagon I think for sure has the ard case because of the turret on top. If the bonebreaka is not open topped, can the standard BW get a deff rolla?? I am really intrigued with taking a BW w/ deff roll and filling it with burna boyz for ramming speed damage, deff rolla hits and flaming some gitz.

I think the Bonebreaka is hardcased, and I think it can only carry 12 models. It's going to be a priority target by all the anti knight weapons, so either make sure theres a KFF around, or don't put anything valuable in it.

Has anyone done the mathhammering on how much longer a T8 BW will last with the 5++KFF and the Dethskull 6+++ Fnp?