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2018/10/30 13:19:21
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/30 13:29:50
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
Da jump is still a thing.
If I'm using the Da Jump blob to deal with screens, what is my opponent going to use to prevent them from getting to the screen?
A screen?
30 shoota boyz starting next to 10 shoota boyz, mob up, Da Jump them in, open fire with everything (strategically so as to not wipe out the front line of the screen) then just charge the front line of the screen.
Perfect little distraction blobifex that shows up and causes a ruckus while dealing with enemy screens.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/10/30 13:29:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: Is the new bonebreaka BW variant open topped? The gunwagon I think for sure has the ard case because of the turret on top. If the bonebreaka is not open topped, can the standard BW get a deff rolla?? I am really intrigued with taking a BW w/ deff roll and filling it with burna boyz for ramming speed damage, deff rolla hits and flaming some gitz.
I think the Bonebreaka is hardcased, and I think it can only carry 12 models. It's going to be a priority target by all the anti knight weapons, so either make sure theres a KFF around, or don't put anything valuable in it.
Has anyone done the mathhammering on how much longer a T8 BW will last with the 5++KFF and the Dethskull 6+++ Fnp?
Exactly. You have three options. The normal wagon starts at 120 the other ones at 140, gear excluded
1, The normal battlewagon which is a bit cheaper and your only way to get 20 transport capacity. It can take all the optional extras. Well except for rokkit launchas, those are gone as weapons on any and all battlewagon types.
2, The bonebreaka. It comes with an 'ard case and a deffrolla. Can only take the "small weapon options" like the big shootas. 12 transport capacity, gains an additional d6 attacks on the charge
3, The gunwagon. It comes with an 'ard case and a kannon/killkannon/zzap gun and has a 12 transport capacity. Gets to fire its main gun twice at the same target if it moves less than half its movement characteristic. It might be BS4+, that was mentioned on the warhammer stream but I don't believe that's correct.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
Have not seen the results or even the lists but this one goes out for you Tneva.
tneva82 wrote: If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
Da jump is still a thing.
If I'm using the Da Jump blob to deal with screens, what is my opponent going to use to prevent them from getting to the screen?
A screen?
30 shoota boyz starting next to 10 shoota boyz, mob up, Da Jump them in, open fire with everything (strategically so as to not wipe out the front line of the screen) then just charge the front line of the screen.
Perfect little distraction blobifex that shows up and causes a ruckus while dealing with enemy screens.
And da jump is not foot slogging boyz. It's DS'ing boyz. Reading comprehension failure. Sure DS'ing evil sun boyz can still have role. Foot slogging it not. Takes too long when you suffer 60 model casualties per turn rate(which substandard gunline can do). So if you want boyz you dont' foot slogthem. You DS. Either by tellyporta, blood axe one or da jump. Key being not foot slogging.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 13:42:25
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/30 13:47:23
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Do we a valiant Ork general that is willing to have a thru examination of the units in the codex,when its out, with some grading as bad ,playable , must have?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 13:48:09
2018/10/30 13:52:14
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Been doin some finkin. Da Smasha Gun is stricktly better than the Traktor Kannon.
Because it's 31 points vs 45, you git 3 for the price of 2.
They hit once per phase, D3 shots at BS4+. The 2D6 "strength" is a little worse than the Traktor's S8, but not by much.
Against Invuls there is no AP advantage, but against anything without an invul the Smasha is vasstly superior, even 1 on 1.
The place where the Traktor shines is -1 to hit, which evens them up in number of hits (2 vs 2), and against the fly keyword, which does 4.4 damage vs 3.5.
So against a flyer with invul, the 2 traktors are 16% better than the 3 smashas.
But these 3 smashas have 50% as many wounds and provide more MSU.
Against 3++ knights, each gun is the same (the traktor slightly better against T8) but you have 3 of them instead of 2.
Against non-invulnerables tanks the 3 smashas do 80% more output and have 50% more survivability.
So, boyz...convinced?
ETA: STOP DA PRESSES BOYZ!!!
Traktors don't get DDD, but Smashas do, for 16% output increase.
Against most flyers, 3 smashas equal 2 traktors, with 50% more wounds.
The ONLY time Traktors are ever better is against -2 to hit.
Against non-invul tanks, Smashas are TWICE as good.
ALso...
18 smashas cost 558, basically 1-shot a non-ion shielded knight. Not as points efficient as some things, but not bad.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/30 15:03:57
2018/10/30 13:58:11
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Emicrania wrote: Do we a valiant Ork general that is willing to have a thru examination of the units in the codex,when its out, with some grading as bad ,playable , must have?
Yeah I think we should re-make the thread when the codex comes out so we can have accurate information on this, and so that all the discussion is about the codex so its easy to follow. Most other armies have re-made when they got their book
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: Is the new bonebreaka BW variant open topped? The gunwagon I think for sure has the ard case because of the turret on top. If the bonebreaka is not open topped, can the standard BW get a deff rolla?? I am really intrigued with taking a BW w/ deff roll and filling it with burna boyz for ramming speed damage, deff rolla hits and flaming some gitz.
I think the Bonebreaka is hardcased, and I think it can only carry 12 models. It's going to be a priority target by all the anti knight weapons, so either make sure theres a KFF around, or don't put anything valuable in it.
Those anti-knight weapons can't klll everything though. Put a morkanaut with it for KFF, some dragstas or scrapjets for anti-tank and some other vehicles like dakkajets, gunwagons or mek guns, and they will start having issues with targeting priority.
There also is a new hot thing to put into those 12 transport slots: 5 Nobz with 5 BC and 5 with 2 choppas for just 165 points or 6 MANz for 180 - both cheaper than 30 boyz used to be.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/10/30 14:24:59
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
Da jump is still a thing.
If I'm using the Da Jump blob to deal with screens, what is my opponent going to use to prevent them from getting to the screen?
A screen?
30 shoota boyz starting next to 10 shoota boyz, mob up, Da Jump them in, open fire with everything (strategically so as to not wipe out the front line of the screen) then just charge the front line of the screen.
Perfect little distraction blobifex that shows up and causes a ruckus while dealing with enemy screens.
And da jump is not foot slogging boyz. It's DS'ing boyz. Reading comprehension failure. Sure DS'ing evil sun boyz can still have role. Foot slogging it not. Takes too long when you suffer 60 model casualties per turn rate(which substandard gunline can do). So if you want boyz you dont' foot slogthem. You DS. Either by tellyporta, blood axe one or da jump. Key being not foot slogging.
I don't understand why you're bashing boyz as "too slow" or "must ds turn 2" when we have the easy, available option of DS turn 1.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/10/30 14:53:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Sorry if the instructions are a bit tough, I can't quite figure out how to get Battlescribe auto syncing with a dropbox file.
I'm already noticing a lot of issues.
For one, the warboss, isn't it 65 points base? Why is headwhoppas kill Choppa 7 points when. It replaces a 5 point big Choppa? Why is he able to take a shoot a when this is not in the codex as a wargear option?
For the Ork boys, the nob is only 6 points. The nob also cannot have a Choppa on his slugga arm. There is no tankbustas bomb option. In the codex, you may take a bomb per 10 boyz for free.
Same thing with nob entry. Nob weapons includes a Choppa, big Choppa, etc. And you may replace the Choppa and slugga. You should be able to take the full nob gear list on both arms.
Deffkopta points are completely wrong. Trukk can't take all the options in the codex (wreckin ball, grabbing Klaw, stick bomb launch) etc etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 15:18:24
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2018/10/30 15:53:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: If you plan to deal with screens to help with T2 deep strikes boyz are waaaaaaaaay too slow. They aren't T1 charging ever if opponent deliberately doesn't allow you(and if opponent deliberately gives you one you can go with assumption it's because it's not bad for the opponent). Shooting isn't reliable enough either. Post-T2 charges you can use DS'ing boyz to do the clearing or some other good chaff clearing. Against gunline boyz aren't charging by foot before T3 anyway and by then DS'er's need to come anyway so chaff clearing is too late anyway.
Da jump is still a thing.
If I'm using the Da Jump blob to deal with screens, what is my opponent going to use to prevent them from getting to the screen?
A screen?
30 shoota boyz starting next to 10 shoota boyz, mob up, Da Jump them in, open fire with everything (strategically so as to not wipe out the front line of the screen) then just charge the front line of the screen.
Perfect little distraction blobifex that shows up and causes a ruckus while dealing with enemy screens.
And da jump is not foot slogging boyz. It's DS'ing boyz. Reading comprehension failure. Sure DS'ing evil sun boyz can still have role. Foot slogging it not. Takes too long when you suffer 60 model casualties per turn rate(which substandard gunline can do). So if you want boyz you dont' foot slogthem. You DS. Either by tellyporta, blood axe one or da jump. Key being not foot slogging.
I don't understand why you're bashing boyz as "too slow" or "must ds turn 2" when we have the easy, available option of DS turn 1.
It's not even that to me that's crazy. Evil Sunz shoota boys have a first turn shooting range of 26-31" with their shootas. That should be good for at least the first layer of screens on most deployments. So you can definitely slog while prepping for a turn 2 ss bonanza.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2018/10/30 16:25:21
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Very good point. Footslogging evil sunz are indeed reach out and touch them type units.
6" move + D 6 + 1 is an average of 10.5" a turn, plus 18" shootas range or 36" with the big shootas.
However, a unit of 30 plus big shootas and a big Choppa will run you 230 points and clip a mere 3.5 MEQs, provided that they aren't minced by enemy shooting turn 1. That's frankly why I'm not impressed by them and won't be going that route. Maybe if I used two big blobs plus a KFF. But that will run you over 500 points and basically take down a single combat squad a turn.
I'll be frank, that's why I'm thinking MSU. At least with a free nob, a free Choppa on said nob, the cost reduction on trukks and the new, killy bonebreaka wagon, and the free tankbustas bomb, I don't have to be insulted by the cost increase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 16:31:27
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2018/10/30 16:53:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
So what are we thinking are major strategies vs the major factions? Knights are the one most heavily discussed, but for instance my main opponent at the moment is running nids. I was thinking of deffdreads tellyporting with a morkanaut and mek gunz to fill a spearhead. Id also have a battalion of boyz inside either the bonecrusha or trukks.
2018/10/30 17:16:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Btw a meka dread with the killkannon arm and kff... is pretty awesome again!!! An evil sun double klaw w supa charga is insane...
I’m going to have to wait til the codex and faq drops....I’m fairly sure the FW units are going to have thier faq drop shortly after codex launch since the big faq deliberately had zero ork changes. I’m leaning heavily on the index to carry orks.
Warboss on bike w relic klaw
Painboy on bike w lukky stikk
Wartrike
Zhardsnark
70-90 skar Boyz w Nobs w Big choppa (use green tide strat to bring back squad)
3x 10 Gretchin screens
Morkanaut or meka dread w kff 3x deff dreads w 4 klaws (deepstrike turn2)
Weirdboy w da jump.
10x tankbustas w 2 squigs (knight killers) (needs to be bad moon for double tap strat)
Some form of this is my base list....
Hoping Mek guns get kulturs but if not I still might have a few smasha/traktor guns as obj holders.
Looking at layers of protection vs first turn shooting. 5++, 5+++ then 2+ grot screen.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/10/30 17:55:00
2018/10/30 18:07:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
gungo wrote: Btw a meka dread with the killkannon arm and kff... is pretty awesome again!!! An evil sun double klaw w supa charga is insane...
I’m going to have to wait til the codex and faq drops....I’m fairly sure the FW units are going to have thier faq drop shortly after codex launch since the big faq deliberately had zero ork changes. I’m leaning heavily on the index to carry orks.
Warboss on bike w relic klaw
Painboy on bike w lukky stikk
Wartrike
Zhardsnark
70-90 skar Boyz w Nobs w Big choppa (use green tide strat to bring back squad)
3x 10 Gretchin screens
Morkanaut or meka dread w kff 3x deff dreads w 4 klaws (deepstrike turn2)
Weirdboy w da jump.
10x tankbustas w 2 squigs (knight killers) (needs to be bad moon for double tap strat)
Some form of this is my base list....
Hoping Mek guns get kulturs but if not I still might have a few smasha/traktor guns as obj holders.
Looking at layers of protection vs first turn shooting. 5++, 5+++ then 2+ grot screen.
Didn´t they remove Warboss on Bike?
2018/10/30 18:16:50
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
From the MWG review, there's some interesting info about the Wazbom Blastajet:
Tellyport Blasta changed from D3 shots to 3 shots
Wazbom Mega-Kannons changed from D3 damage to D6 damage
Smasha Gun changed to D3 shots.
So, that explains the price hike on the Wazbom, I guess the question is, is it worthwhile? As someone who tries to not lean on the index crutch, I'm looking at it as a possible alternative to a bike BM for my speed freek army. -1 to hit, Fly, 12W, 5++ makes it relatively tough to take down vs most anti tank firepower, at 159 points it is a pricy investment but with each of the guns getting a bump in investment mayyyybe?
I think given how tellyport blastas work they're generally still inefficient IMO even at straight 3 shots. Although with an average of 1 hit per gun if your opponent runs a lot of Thunderwolf Cavalry, Bikers, etc you might get some use out of it?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/10/30 18:19:58
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
18 smashas cost 558, basically 1-shot a non-ion shielded knight. Not as points efficient as some things, but not bad.
Great info. The only thing your calculations leave out, is traktor cannons forcing an auto explode result on units with the fly keyword. Iniitally (in the first few games), this could result in some massive damage to your opponent before they realize what is happening. In later games, just the presence of a few traktor cannons will completely change both your opponents deployment, and use of units with the fly keyword.
Psychologically, the traktor cannon has a lot going for it. I know the first time someone one shots a venom and it cascades into glorious destruction, your opponent will never play that list the same way ever again.
the_scotsman wrote: From the MWG review, there's some interesting info about the Wazbom Blastajet:
Tellyport Blasta changed from D3 shots to 3 shots
Wazbom Mega-Kannons changed from D3 damage to D6 damage
Smasha Gun changed to D3 shots.
So, that explains the price hike on the Wazbom, I guess the question is, is it worthwhile? As someone who tries to not lean on the index crutch, I'm looking at it as a possible alternative to a bike BM for my speed freek army. -1 to hit, Fly, 12W, 5++ makes it relatively tough to take down vs most anti tank firepower, at 159 points it is a pricy investment but with each of the guns getting a bump in investment mayyyybe?
I think given how tellyport blastas work they're generally still inefficient IMO even at straight 3 shots. Although with an average of 1 hit per gun if your opponent runs a lot of Thunderwolf Cavalry, Bikers, etc you might get some use out of it?
The Long, uncontrolled bursts stratgem is probably pretty good fit on the wazbom too. The potential is there but I'm not sure if it's worth it unless you're running plenty of other fast stuff that fits under the bubble
2018/10/30 18:22:52
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Ok gang, ive got a game next Wednesday and this is what I came up with for 2000 points of of orks
Spoiler:
Evil Suns Battalion (5cp)
HQ
Weirdboy, da jump
Weirdboy, da jump
Troops
10x gretchin
10x gretchin
10x gretchin
Evil Suns Battalion (5cp)
HQ
Weirdboy, warpath
Warboss, powerklaw. Warlord trait is the one with additional damage for weapons and rerolls in cc, relic is the killa klaw
Troops
9x slugga boys, boss nob
9x slugga boys, boss nob
29x shoota boys, boss nob with powerklaw
28x slugga boys, boss nob with powerklaw
Evil Suns Spearhead (1cp)
HQ
Warboss, big choppa
Elites
5x tankbustas
5x tankbustas
Heavy support
Gorkanaut
Gorkanaut
2x deffdreads, 1 skorcha and 3 dread saws each
1999 points, 14 cp total
T1 the plan is to hide 80 boyz as best you can. Pack them up and wrap them best you can with grots, put them out of LOS if possible or in cover if not. Bosses and weirdboyz stay with them. 6 cp is used to put the gorkanauts and deffdreads in tellyportas, with the tankbustas riding inside the gorkanauts.
Mob up one of the small squads with one of the big squads. The mobbed up squad can be warpathed and da jumped up the board (still not clear if this works, if not trade out warpath for fist of Gork or whatecer the character buffing one is) to try and clear some screens, make sure its the shoota boy squad. Use grot shield stratagem to protect any boyz squads that you can't hide. Basically, hunker down for turn 2 and wait to be da jumped in, clear screens if possible.
T2, everything lands on the board, another squad of boyz is mibbed up and da jumped in. With evil suns trait you should be able to get most of these into combat and the gorkanauts do ok with shooting as well. Use ramming speed to ensure one Gorkanaut makes its charge, and basically spread everything out best you can to tag as many shooty things as possible. Use the get stuck in stratagem on a gorkanaut that makes its charge for more killing and more tagging out of shooty units.
T3, if t2 went well then your opponent hopefully missed out on a lot of shooting due to things falling back. Tankbustas disembark, and hopefully things are crowded enough that one in each squad can toss some tankbusta bombs. If you didn't jump one of the boyz blobs up on t1 for screen clearing, jump it up now. Warbosses and weirdboyz should be moving up to smite things and hit them. Tankbustas get a nice round of shooting and any left over cp can be used to boost it. Remaining gorks and dreads do some shooting and charge in again. Hopefully at this point you will have whittled opponant down to a more manageable amount of units that you can effectively stunlock with constant charges and put them through the meatgrinder until victory.
What do you think? I may drop a Warboss for an index big mek with kff to help protect the boyz on the board until t2. Dreads have saws instead of klaws to satisfy the "half of your points must be on the table t1" rule. Does this sound like a pretty strong beta strike?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 18:23:22
2018/10/30 18:27:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
ManTube wrote: Ok gang, ive got a game next Wednesday and this is what I came up with for 2000 points of of orks
Spoiler:
Evil Suns Battalion (5cp)
HQ
Weirdboy, da jump
Weirdboy, da jump
Troops
10x gretchin
10x gretchin
10x gretchin
Evil Suns Battalion (5cp)
HQ
Weirdboy, warpath
Warboss, powerklaw. Warlord trait is the one with additional damage for weapons and rerolls in cc, relic is the killa klaw
Troops
9x slugga boys, boss nob
9x slugga boys, boss nob
29x shoota boys, boss nob with powerklaw
28x slugga boys, boss nob with powerklaw
Evil Suns Spearhead (1cp)
HQ
Warboss, big choppa
Elites
5x tankbustas
5x tankbustas
Heavy support
Gorkanaut
Gorkanaut
2x deffdreads, 1 skorcha and 3 dread saws each
1999 points, 14 cp total
T1 the plan is to hide 80 boyz as best you can. Pack them up and wrap them best you can with grots, put them out of LOS if possible or in cover if not. Bosses and weirdboyz stay with them. 6 cp is used to put the gorkanauts and deffdreads in tellyportas, with the tankbustas riding inside the gorkanauts.
Mob up one of the small squads with one of the big squads. The mobbed up squad can be warpathed and da jumped up the board (still not clear if this works, if not trade out warpath for fist of Gork or whatecer the character buffing one is) to try and clear some screens, make sure its the shoota boy squad. Use grot shield stratagem to protect any boyz squads that you can't hide. Basically, hunker down for turn 2 and wait to be da jumped in, clear screens if possible.
T2, everything lands on the board, another squad of boyz is mibbed up and da jumped in. With evil suns trait you should be able to get most of these into combat and the gorkanauts do ok with shooting as well. Use ramming speed to ensure one Gorkanaut makes its charge, and basically spread everything out best you can to tag as many shooty things as possible. Use the get stuck in stratagem on a gorkanaut that makes its charge for more killing and more tagging out of shooty units.
T3, if t2 went well then your opponent hopefully missed out on a lot of shooting due to things falling back. Tankbustas disembark, and hopefully things are crowded enough that one in each squad can toss some tankbusta bombs. If you didn't jump one of the boyz blobs up on t1 for screen clearing, jump it up now. Warbosses and weirdboyz should be moving up to smite things and hit them. Tankbustas get a nice round of shooting and any left over cp can be used to boost it. Remaining gorks and dreads do some shooting and charge in again. Hopefully at this point you will have whittled opponant down to a more manageable amount of units that you can effectively stunlock with constant charges and put them through the meatgrinder until victory.
What do you think? I may drop a Warboss for an index big mek with kff to help protect the boyz on the board until t2. Dreads have saws instead of klaws to satisfy the "half of your points must be on the table t1" rule. Does this sound like a pretty strong beta strike?
I like it, its a similar idea to what I want to run, but haven't put a list together yet. Maybe make the weirdboys snakebites instead. Im thinking about deepstriking Meganobz instead of deffdreads
the_scotsman wrote: From the MWG review, there's some interesting info about the Wazbom Blastajet:
Tellyport Blasta changed from D3 shots to 3 shots
Wazbom Mega-Kannons changed from D3 damage to D6 damage
Smasha Gun changed to D3 shots.
So, that explains the price hike on the Wazbom, I guess the question is, is it worthwhile? As someone who tries to not lean on the index crutch, I'm looking at it as a possible alternative to a bike BM for my speed freek army. -1 to hit, Fly, 12W, 5++ makes it relatively tough to take down vs most anti tank firepower, at 159 points it is a pricy investment but with each of the guns getting a bump in investment mayyyybe?
I think given how tellyport blastas work they're generally still inefficient IMO even at straight 3 shots. Although with an average of 1 hit per gun if your opponent runs a lot of Thunderwolf Cavalry, Bikers, etc you might get some use out of it?
The Long, uncontrolled bursts stratgem is probably pretty good fit on the wazbom too. The potential is there but I'm not sure if it's worth it unless you're running plenty of other fast stuff that fits under the bubble
I mean, I am. It's a speed freek army, I used a big mek on bike to keep up with all my stuff before, so that'll be handy now.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/10/30 18:42:51
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
gungo wrote: Btw a meka dread with the killkannon arm and kff... is pretty awesome again!!! An evil sun double klaw w supa charga is insane...
I’m going to have to wait til the codex and faq drops....I’m fairly sure the FW units are going to have thier faq drop shortly after codex launch since the big faq deliberately had zero ork changes. I’m leaning heavily on the index to carry orks.
Warboss on bike w relic klaw
Painboy on bike w lukky stikk
Wartrike
Zhardsnark
70-90 skar Boyz w Nobs w Big choppa (use green tide strat to bring back squad)
3x 10 Gretchin screens
Morkanaut or meka dread w kff 3x deff dreads w 4 klaws (deepstrike turn2)
Weirdboy w da jump.
10x tankbustas w 2 squigs (knight killers) (needs to be bad moon for double tap strat)
Some form of this is my base list....
Hoping Mek guns get kulturs but if not I still might have a few smasha/traktor guns as obj holders.
Looking at layers of protection vs first turn shooting. 5++, 5+++ then 2+ grot screen.
Didn´t they remove Warboss on Bike?
you are still allowed to use the index for models they no longer make unless you are in a tournament scene that says otherwise.
Both warhamer world and the ITC allow it... the ETC doesn’t.
I suspect the ultimate demise of the index will occur during chapter approved 2019 when the last 3-4 armies have a codex. (Sisters, genecult, khorne demonkin, agents of imperium). At that point I suspect they will get the power level only treatment. But for now outside the ETC it’s open game from everyone else.
And I think the Ork Codex is overall semi competitive, but really shines with index units especially painboy on bike/warboss on bikes..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/30 18:50:54
2018/10/30 18:53:25
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
18 smashas cost 558, basically 1-shot a non-ion shielded knight. Not as points efficient as some things, but not bad.
Great info. The only thing your calculations leave out, is traktor cannons forcing an auto explode result on units with the fly keyword. Iniitally (in the first few games), this could result in some massive damage to your opponent before they realize what is happening. In later games, just the presence of a few traktor cannons will completely change both your opponents deployment, and use of units with the fly keyword.
Psychologically, the traktor cannon has a lot going for it. I know the first time someone one shots a venom and it cascades into glorious destruction, your opponent will never play that list the same way ever again.
I view the Auto-Explodes rule as a drawback, not a plus. We orks are usually in the middle of the table, right under the planes. We are going to be the ones hit by the explosion.
Yes, you may be able to frag them on turn 1 if you go first, but that is often very difficult, especially if they have an invuln. Not much else is going to be able to reach the far corner, so the traktor has to do it on its own. With only 5/6 of a wound per turn, their 5++ may end that right away.
By turn 2 (or t1 if you go second) the plane is out and right over orks. The psychological effect gets thrown back in our face...they will position the plane right over the best of our units, including characters, hoping you explode it right above them.
Smashas are the new plasma. WAAAAAAAAY better than lascannons for price. And since we are BS 3.5+, they might be the best gun in the game.
Expect the nerfbat to hit them hard, and fast, possibly even before CA comes out. While GW might take a couple of years to fix the stompa, anything this good should be gone before the week is out.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
