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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 davou wrote:
Id like

Models within 9 inches reicieve a 5++, models in units within 9 but not withing 9 themselves recieve a 6++

So like a weakening force field..? thats a really neat idea.

Or the field actually ends at 9, but the boys believe their safe because they see their buddies glowing

 JimOnMars wrote:

grnsknz wrote:
Someone mentioned the idea of weirdboys slingshotting each other to the backfield with da jump. I was also thinking about this strategy. The opponent will most possibly keep characters in the back. One weirdboy teleports the other to a position 9" away that is carefully selected to make the enemy character the closest model, then the teleported casts a smite. The problem is that characters tend to have 4+ wounds...

Could this be still a thing?

And of course if there is such a huge hole in the back that makes this scenario possible it may be better to teleport a blob of boyz then shoot/charge. Positioning seems way more important then in 7th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For weirdboyz the 'eadbanger could be better than smite with a reroll from command points.

Smite probably won't get enough wounds, but it could ding him one or two. 'eadbanger will almost never get used because you need equal or higher toughness on a d6...only for certain units like Celestine.

don't forget the command point re-roll. You need higher, btw.

grnsknz wrote:
Someone mentioned the idea of weirdboys slingshotting each other to the backfield with da jump. I was also thinking about this strategy. The opponent will most possibly keep characters in the back. One weirdboy teleports the other to a position 9" away that is carefully selected to make the enemy character the closest model, then the teleported casts a smite. The problem is that characters tend to have 4+ wounds...

Could this be still a thing?

And of course if there is such a huge hole in the back that makes this scenario possible it may be better to teleport a blob of boyz then shoot/charge. Positioning seems way more important then in 7th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For weirdboyz the 'eadbanger could be better than smite with a reroll from command points.

OR... you just moved up the board and smite the character anyway. They only can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Smite is cast in the psychic phase so all you need to do is get in 18" range and pass your test.

'Eadbanger is really a minor character killer. It can work ok on a Nob w/ Banner, a Sister Imagifier or like a Chaplain or something, but you really need to use CP to make the thing have any reliability and even then, id prefer to just chuck a freakin KMK at it. Orks lack of Sniping is actually gonna kinda suck this ed and it makes us not having Grot snipers even more annoying.

Been doing some theory hammer. No table time yet.

Theory #1:
Stormboyz can go in trukks now.

So imagine you take 3 trukks, 3 units of boyz / nobz / Tankbustas and 3 units of Stormboyz that are each 5 boyz + Nob. Deploy the stormboyz in the trukks with the other units right behind them. On turn 1 Stormboyz disembark 3" Move 12" Run d6" <- good place to use a CP reroll, and charge 2D6" For a maximum threat range of 33" on turn 1. More likely you are looking at 27", but that is still enough for a T1 charge to get in and tarpit something shooty for a turn. Maybe tie up a transport, so you guarantee board control.


Theory #2:
Flash Gitz and Nobz got a stealth durability upgrade. Ammo Runts. 4 point ablative wounds. Got Hit by a Lascannon? Kill an ammo runt. Battlewagon explodes? Kill an ammo runt.

That right there is fun.



Theory #3:
Battlewagons seems like a better transport than Trukks on a point for point basis.

With a transport capacity of 20, and the ability to transport multiple units, make use of that transport capacity. My 1st thought was Flash Gitz plus meganobz. But the more I think about it, Meganobz just don't really bring much to 8th ed except a big price tags. Nobz on the other hand, are cheap enough, and durable enough to really fit in. So Flash Gitz plus Nobz. No still not liking it. Flash Gitz have short range, but Heavy weapons, so you don't want to move (pending the Mobile Fortress rules clarification). Also, all those sweet ablative wounds eat up spots in the wagon. What else. Tankbustas. Assault weapons. Now we stick nobz in there as a counter charge unit. Barely even need to give the upgrades. Just an ammo runt or 2 to eat explosions.



Theory #4
Big Mek on Bike the king of shooting.

The Big Mek can take 2 Kombi-Skorchas. Put him on bike, and he is shooting 6 guns potentially at different targets, repairing a vehicle and charging all in one turn. That right there is nutz. If you want to go hog wild, you can replace a kombi-skorcha with SAG.



--------------------------------


I ran some numbers

Here is Tankbusta performance with various wargear vs various things.


And here is a similar chart for Lootas, Burnas, and Flash Gitz.


Seeing the numbers, I've definitely fallen out of love with the rokkit pistols, TB Bomb is awesome. I think Taking a BC Nob in a unit of TB might be worth it. BS hit hard, but are one shot only. I like them for a better early game punch. Early game offense is more important than late game offense.

On the other units front, Lootas are still good at light armor, while Flash Gitz are better at infantry, but not that much better. It was a surprising result for me. If you do take Flash Gitz, pay for the ammo runts.

gungo wrote:
And then the painboy goes down in base cost, but HAS to pay for the PK which pushes his effective cost to 65 points. 5 points more expensive then last edition AND loses half his effectiveness!! (from 5+ to 6+) Another kick in the nuts to orks by GW.

I don't think the Painboy is that bad off - remember that characters aren't in units anymore. The Painboy can be within 3" of two and possibly three mobs and be protecting all of them at the same time. Before he would only be fixin' up one mob that he was in, of a max of 30 boyz and characters attached. Now, he can protect 60+ and characters that are close by.

So having a Painboy in between two 30+ strong units of boys with a 10 strong unit of Nobz just in front of the Painboy (not an impossible setup by any means) means he can use his Dok's Tools on both the boyz mobs and then still use his other Wound regeneration ability on the Nobz Mob if one is missing a Wound.

Having a Waaagh Banner near the Painboy means he can be fixing up the 4 Wounds the Banner bearer has, as well as the Banner buffing everyone in the Fight phase. The Painboy abilities work whether they are in Hand to Hand or not, so he gets quite a lot of use.

BTW I have 5 games under my belt for 8th with orks. My thoughts:

Mek gunz-average now. rolling to hit hurt them a tad but the bubblechukka is now fun to use and insanely strong if you roll well.

Boyz- take multiple 30 man squads, hard to get rid of and pack a punch.

Warbosses- meh. help you advance and charge but they are alright.

Weirdboys- GOLD STAR UNIT. Run up the board in between 2 30 man blobs for bonuses to hit Waagh Energy rule. Yes you will Perils a lot but getting roughly +4,5,or 6 to your test can prevent deny the witch nad give you reliable D6 Mortal Wounds. Shoot at Vehicles and Characters!

Big Meks- Gold STAR UNIT!-screw the KFF, go with Shokk attack gun- they have the ability to inflict Mortal wounds have AP-5 and D6 damage. 2 times in my last game I rolled a 1 for damage and used a CP to reroll into a 6. 1st turn 2 did 9 combined wounds to a landraider and later did 12 wounds to a renegade knight. i was rolling well for their attacks and damage.

Storm boys- May be GOLD STAR UNIT! need another game with them. used in 2 of my games. 12" move and can advance and charge without warboss.

Morkanaut/Gork- not quite gold star but very good. Seem to be a fire magnet and lascannons do work on thewm because it's so much harder to get cover. Still very strong and can put the hurt in shooting and melee.

Fliers- My favorite flier so far has been the Blitza-bomba- fly over and bomb units in the Movement phase- can get up to 10 attacks that inflict mortal wounds on a 4+. Use on large elite armies. I used it on DC and sanguinary guard.

Tank bustas- GOLD STAR UNIT- Being able to now throw a melta bomb is so messed up. MY last game they inflicted around 15 wounds to a knight. The rokkits do 3 damage. meltabombs do D6 at D3 damage. I took 2, 6 man squads and stuck them in a trukk. kited the knight for a few turns before shokk attack finished it off.

Trukks-not bad- haven't rolled any ramshackle saves yet but they have kept my squads decently safe.

I haven't gotten to use much else yet. Have used meganobz...they were underwhelming and used a regular nob squad also the same. Deffkoptas were useful for claiming backfield objectives from reserves.

The one time i used a battlewagon it died in one reserves charge from DC wielding thunderhammers.

mhalko1 wrote:


OR... you just moved up the board and smite the character anyway. They only can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Smite is cast in the psychic phase so all you need to do is get in 18" range and pass your test.

It still has to be the closest visible unit for smite, so it has the same restriction as shooting.

 koooaei wrote:
I'd not call pk dirt cheap. If something, they actually do much less than they used to. And still cost the same.

I was referring to the pain boy as a whole. It's a good package you get for just 65 points, even if the PK is kind of meh.

If the SAG did D6 damage rather than D3 it would indeed be pretty awesome.
I am liking the idea of the Bubblechukka with a CP reroll, must try it out. My Gunz are scratch built so can be pretty much whatever I say they are

 JimOnMars wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:


OR... you just moved up the board and smite the character anyway. They only can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Smite is cast in the psychic phase so all you need to do is get in 18" range and pass your test.

It still has to be the closest visible unit for smite, so it has the same restriction as shooting.

I disagree

Characters
" Some models are noted as being a CHARACTER on their datasheet. These heroes, officers, prophets, and warlords are powerful individuals that can have a great impact on the course of a battle. The swirling maelstrom of the battlefield can make it difficult to pick out such individuals as targets, however. A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a wounds characteristic of 10 or more, due to their sheer size."

doesn't say anything about them not being targetable in the psychic phase

tag8833 wrote:


Theory #1:
Stormboyz can go in trukks now.

I had considered this as well. What I had come up with was 9 Stormboyz+Zag, a Battlewagon, and 10 Lootaz. If the map and enemy deployment offers a reasonable charge chance, drop the Stormboyz in the wagon right at the edge of the deployment line and the Lootaz into cover. Otherwise put the Lootaz in the wagon and deploy the Stormboyz normally..

 Cuz05 wrote:
If the SAG did D6 damage rather than D3 it would indeed be pretty awesome.
I am liking the idea of the Bubblechukka with a CP reroll, must try it out. My Gunz are scratch built so can be pretty much whatever I say they are

You're right i turned a die roll of 1 into a 6 for 3 damage.

mhalko1 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:


OR... you just moved up the board and smite the character anyway. They only can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Smite is cast in the psychic phase so all you need to do is get in 18" range and pass your test.

It still has to be the closest visible unit for smite, so it has the same restriction as shooting.

I disagree

Characters
" Some models are noted as being a CHARACTER on their datasheet. These heroes, officers, prophets, and warlords are powerful individuals that can have a great impact on the course of a battle. The swirling maelstrom of the battlefield can make it difficult to pick out such individuals as targets, however. A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a wounds characteristic of 10 or more, due to their sheer size."

doesn't say anything about them not being targetable in the psychic phase

It's not a shooting/psychic restriction, closest visible unit is a restriction of Smite itself.

 JohnU wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:


OR... you just moved up the board and smite the character anyway. They only can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Smite is cast in the psychic phase so all you need to do is get in 18" range and pass your test.

It still has to be the closest visible unit for smite, so it has the same restriction as shooting.

I disagree

Characters
" Some models are noted as being a CHARACTER on their datasheet. These heroes, officers, prophets, and warlords are powerful individuals that can have a great impact on the course of a battle. The swirling maelstrom of the battlefield can make it difficult to pick out such individuals as targets, however. A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a wounds characteristic of 10 or more, due to their sheer size."

doesn't say anything about them not being targetable in the psychic phase

It's not a shooting/psychic restriction, closest visible unit is a restriction of Smite itself.

gotcha, just needed a re read

mhalko1 wrote:
BTW I have 5 games under my belt for 8th with orks. My thoughts:

Mek gunz-average now. rolling to hit hurt them a tad but the bubblechukka is now fun to use and insanely strong if you roll well.

Boyz- take multiple 30 man squads, hard to get rid of and pack a punch.

Warbosses- meh. help you advance and charge but they are alright.

Weirdboys- GOLD STAR UNIT. Run up the board in between 2 30 man blobs for bonuses to hit Waagh Energy rule. Yes you will Perils a lot but getting roughly +4,5,or 6 to your test can prevent deny the witch nad give you reliable D6 Mortal Wounds. Shoot at Vehicles and Characters!

Big Meks- Gold STAR UNIT!-screw the KFF, go with Shokk attack gun- they have the ability to inflict Mortal wounds have AP-5 and D6 damage. 2 times in my last game I rolled a 1 for damage and used a CP to reroll into a 6. 1st turn 2 did 9 combined wounds to a landraider and later did 12 wounds to a renegade knight. i was rolling well for their attacks and damage.

Storm boys- May be GOLD STAR UNIT! need another game with them. used in 2 of my games. 12" move and can advance and charge without warboss.

Morkanaut/Gork- not quite gold star but very good. Seem to be a fire magnet and lascannons do work on thewm because it's so much harder to get cover. Still very strong and can put the hurt in shooting and melee.

Fliers- My favorite flier so far has been the Blitza-bomba- fly over and bomb units in the Movement phase- can get up to 10 attacks that inflict mortal wounds on a 4+. Use on large elite armies. I used it on DC and sanguinary guard.

Tank bustas- GOLD STAR UNIT- Being able to now throw a melta bomb is so messed up. MY last game they inflicted around 15 wounds to a knight. The rokkits do 3 damage. meltabombs do D6 at D3 damage. I took 2, 6 man squads and stuck them in a trukk. kited the knight for a few turns before shokk attack finished it off.

Trukks-not bad- haven't rolled any ramshackle saves yet but they have kept my squads decently safe.

I haven't gotten to use much else yet. Have used meganobz...they were underwhelming and used a regular nob squad also the same. Deffkoptas were useful for claiming backfield objectives from reserves.

The one time i used a battlewagon it died in one reserves charge from DC wielding thunderhammers.

+1 to above recommendations
Question just me testing the bubble chukka Felt like it needed several command points a game to perform well at least 3 for a game. It did several shots at high dam but mid str. Sounds like it will be wounding on a 5+ most times. But yea it can be massive dam when it wounds.
What's ur experience in game

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd not call pk dirt cheap. If something, they actually do much less than they used to. And still cost the same.

I was referring to the pain boy as a whole. It's a good package you get for just 65 points, even if the PK is kind of meh.

Take the killsaw, you won't regret it. My Painboy consistently does more damage to other infantry units on the charge than my trukk mobs do (I have the old metal model with the bonesaw arm, so I felt it was suitably WYSIWYG )

Has anyone got the statistics of nobs with Big Choppas versus Power Stabbas? Wondering what to arm mine with - shock unit coming out of a Morkanaut.

 koooaei wrote:

Smite probably won't get enough wounds, but it could ding him one or two. 'eadbanger will almost never get used because you need equal or higher toughness on a d6...only for certain units like Celestine.

Blow up Eldrad Ulthran on a 5+? Hell yeah.

Not implying that it's actually good... but I have to do that at least once.

 Jambles wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd not call pk dirt cheap. If something, they actually do much less than they used to. And still cost the same.

I was referring to the pain boy as a whole. It's a good package you get for just 65 points, even if the PK is kind of meh.

Take the killsaw, you won't regret it. My Painboy consistently does more damage to other infantry units on the charge than my trukk mobs do (I have the old metal model with the bonesaw arm, so I felt it was suitably WYSIWYG )

And it's like the Wreckin' Ball. For 3 points might as well.

Yeah, if you can take a killsaw over a pk, take it. It's usually better.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Cuz05 wrote:
If the SAG did D6 damage rather than D3 it would indeed be pretty awesome.
I am liking the idea of the Bubblechukka with a CP reroll, must try it out. My Gunz are scratch built so can be pretty much whatever I say they are

You're right i turned a die roll of 1 into a 6 for 3 damage.

Cool! You did say D6 damage in your post but if you were doing that kind of damage on D3s, then that's good to hear. I do feel like it'll regain some orky random with the codex but I love the models and the weapon, would like it to still have potential. The fear and anticipation it generates when you start rolling for it on something key....

im thinking grots for a gunline - aka mek/big gunz list, will be very useful for stopping reserves. the enemy have to be 9" away. thus using conga lines its actually possible to make it very very difficult for reserves to deploy. the 9" rule means that you can create a lines thats 17.5 inches away from your gunz and the enemy cant reserve arrive in between. doing this with a couple grotz units meand you can literally deny almost your whole zone.

secondly, sticking a runtherd at the point of the units congas touching, the units are immune to morale. they prevent reserves arriving and basically make it impossible for flanking units to get near anywhere.

finally, im not sure exactly how combat works, but if they charge your line and kill grots, you can remove the grots closest to the combat, if you break the 1" combat, does the unit no longer count as in combat? because if so it would mean the conga line can take charges, be immune to morale and you wont have to fall back, leaving the assaulters open to shooting and even assault from the grots.

Yeah, deepstriking is extremely dangerous this edition. However, grots might not be the best pick unless you want to get a lot of them and a runtherd cause their low ld and toughness means they run away too easilly. In smaller games i'd actually prefer min units of 10 shootaboyz. They've become cheaper, can have a free nob and don't insta die the moment something looks at them. They can also deal with some of the shooty deepstrikers in mellee.

Btw, have you noticed, grots got 6+ armor. However, they're still pretty overpriced for what they do. Runtherds make them decent point holders and even tarpitters. But runtherds ain't cheap and you need lots of grots for them to start paying off in this role.

That's disappointing. I'm a fan of grots and i hope they turn out to be more useful than anti-deepstrike bauble wrap with time. My squad of 10 grots earned the reputation of being "op and you can't counter them". Cause they won more than one game by performing rediculous feats like getting into a trukk, moving across the map and than charging a ravenwing deathstar eating overwatch instead of footslogging meganobz. Or shooting down a flying daemon prince of tzeench with re-rollable saves that failed every single one of them and killed himself falling to the ground. I can't even count the number of times they bravely stood in a way of imperial knights and delayed their advance long enough for the boyz to do the job.

 Sledgio wrote:
Has anyone got the statistics of nobs with Big Choppas versus Power Stabbas? Wondering what to arm mine with - shock unit coming out of a Morkanaut.

I did some math on that:



Basically, looks to me like Big Choppas FTW.

Da Jump on 30 grots....all shooting at BS 3+ as the land. not great, but you can probably get them all within 12" of somebody. For 90 points, it will soak up a lot of shooting, and could put out a lot of hits against infantry.

The Blitza-Bomba and Dakkajet are both looking good. Is the Wazboom Blastajet finally viable? The tellyport blastas seem like they could potentially finish off damaged vehicles/monstrous creatures and the smasha kannon seems usable now.

 Sledgio wrote:
Has anyone got the statistics of nobs with Big Choppas versus Power Stabbas? Wondering what to arm mine with - shock unit coming out of a Morkanaut.

Power Stabbas work out to be better against single wound T3/4 models, like your standard GEQs or MEQs.
Anything with higher toughness than that, or with multiple wounds per model, Big Choppas win.

Are PK's worth it compared to Big Choppas in normal boyz squads? I think with a WAAAGH! banner buff they'd be more reliable since it would offset the -1 to hit but in the instances where they aren't buffed, would you suggest just going for Big Choppas instead?

 Grimskul wrote:
Are PK's worth it compared to Big Choppas in normal boyz squads? I think with a WAAAGH! banner buff they'd be more reliable since it would offset the -1 to hit but in the instances where they aren't buffed, would you suggest just going for Big Choppas instead?

I would go BC. They are cheaper and work fine for what you usually need. Save the PKs (and the Banner) for your Nob squads.