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For knights or any 2+/3+ Toughness 8 vehicle. The best per point is:
Weirdboy spite spam w ork boy overload for auto wounding d6 mortal wounds.
Tankbustas spam w max bomb squigs and tankbusta bomb range.
Bubble chukka squads w several command points Rerolls.
Lootas w command point reroll.

About smite. Does it get d6 mortal wounds for 10 or more or for more than 10? Cause it's different in different places. For example, the rulebook says it's more than 10. While csm index states it's 10+ (for rubrics at least).

 koooaei wrote:
About smite. Does it get d6 mortal wounds for 10 or more or for more than 10? Cause it's different in different places. For example, the rulebook says it's more than 10. While csm index states it's 10+ (for rubrics at least).

I'm assuming generally speaking its more than 10. The 10+ for rubrics might have to do with the fact that they have a nerfed version of smite and its a bespoke rule that specifically overrides the basic version of smite.

Also, thanks guys for the previous feedback on PK Nobz for boyz squads, been a busy past couple of days so I haven't been on in a while.

Has anyone tried out a Dred Mob list yet? It seems like the Gorkanaut is preferable over the Morkanaut since you're likely to take KFF Big Meks as your HQ anyways. Ideal number for Kanz squads seem to be 4 so you can get the extra attacks without investing too much in a squad. Rokkit Launchas and Skorchas seem like the go-to weapons for Kanz as well now that Grotzookas have been pretty nerfed sadly (I was hoping they would change it from Heavy so we wouldn't have the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting, but oh well). Should Deff Dreadz just go double skorcha?

So I was playing w battlescribe and I noticed the kustom mega blasta is even cheaper then twin linked shootas on the deffkoptas. Considering I'm using them as suicide mortal wound bombers on units like terminators and harassing melee units I think a few more str8 ap-3 shots won't hurt. That Brings my deffkoptas down to 64 points each and more affordable to spam 3x of them in a squad so I can move and advance (20in)over an enemy unit turn 1 and drop a bunch of mortal wounds on a unit of terminators bikes or equivilant or hold them back so I can scout them later and take another drop off for 1st turn shenanigans.

gungo wrote:
So I was playing w battlescribe and I noticed the kustom mega blasta is even cheaper then twin linked shootas on the deffkoptas. Considering I'm using them as suicide mortal wound bombers on units like terminators and harassing melee units I think a few more str8 ap-3 shots won't hurt. That Brings my deffkoptas down to 64 points each and more affordable to spam 3x of them in a squad so I can move and advance (20in)over an enemy unit turn 1 and drop a bunch of mortal wounds on a unit of terminators bikes or equivilant or hold them back so I can scout them later and take another drop off for 1st turn shenanigans.

Wow, I don't know if this was discussed before but there is no restriction at all to bombing characters this way. You only get 1/3 chance for a moral wound, but with kopta spam it just might work. I like the 64 points!

Something I've been wondering about with the Big Mek's Kustom Force Field. Say you have a mob of 30 boyz, 25 in range of the KFF and 5 not. You take 6 wounds. If you apply the first 5 wounds to the orks outside of the KFF and they die, does the last wound get to be saved using the KFF's invulnerable save?

...THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION...

Saving throws are made before the damage is applied - so, unfortunately, you can't kill the first five off, and get a KFF save for the 6th; if the attack is from a single gun - if it's from multiple guns however, you should be able to. See below:

THAT SAID; it appears that the rules for "fast rolling dice" on the preceding shooting page appears to indicate that you CAN do what you're trying to do.

If the opponent shoots at you with X number of weapons that are the same;

"Make all the hit rolls at the same time
Make all the wound rolls at the same time

Your opponent can then allocate the wounds one at a time, making the saving throws and then suffering damage each time as appropriate."

Shortest answer: If the shots are all at once from a single weapon - no, you can't. If the shots are from X number of weapons that are the same, you can apply the wounds, then perform the saving throw, one at a time - as each shot/model's shooting is technically independent of one anothers; it's just all rolled at once for convenience.

These rules apply to cover too!

fe40k wrote:
Saving throws are made before the damage is applied - so, unfortunately, you can't kill the first five off, and get a KFF save for the 6th; if the attack is from a single gun - if it's from multiple guns however, you should be able to. See below:

THAT SAID; it appears that the rules for "fast rolling dice" on the preceding shooting page appears to indicate that you CAN do what you're trying to do.

If the opponent shoots at you with X number of weapons that are the same;

"Make all the hit rolls at the same time
Make all the wound rolls at the same time

Your opponent can then allocate the wounds one at a time, making the saving throws and then suffering damage each time as appropriate."

Shortest answer: If the shots are all at once from a single weapon - no, you can't. If the shots are from X number of weapons that are the same, you can apply the wounds, then perform the saving throw, one at a time - as each shot/model's shooting is technically independent of one anothers; it's just all rolled at once for convenience.

These rules apply to cover too!

Thank you very much! The link I had to the rules is broken now, so I couldn't check on the order of things.

 JimOnMars wrote:

gungo wrote:
So I was playing w battlescribe and I noticed the kustom mega blasta is even cheaper then twin linked shootas on the deffkoptas. Considering I'm using them as suicide mortal wound bombers on units like terminators and harassing melee units I think a few more str8 ap-3 shots won't hurt. That Brings my deffkoptas down to 64 points each and more affordable to spam 3x of them in a squad so I can move and advance (20in)over an enemy unit turn 1 and drop a bunch of mortal wounds on a unit of terminators bikes or equivilant or hold them back so I can scout them later and take another drop off for 1st turn shenanigans.

Wow, I don't know if this was discussed before but there is no restriction at all to bombing characters this way. You only get 1/3 chance for a moral wound, but with kopta spam it just might work. I like the 64 points!

It's good for units of 3+ models that normally have invul saves or super resilient like high toughness high saves like terminators, bikes etc. not good at all against single models like Knights. The only downside it is limited to 5 rolls per unit (not a big deal), and you have a 5+ To hit(not effected by modifiers), no to wound and no saves. So considering you can drop the free bombs during ur movement when you advance a 20in movement means you can get a first turn drop. The spinning blades are cute but ultimately low str and no ap but can harass hordes.The kustom mega blasta can harass larger targets through and be annoying enough. It's very good for 64pts. Don't get trapped into 100+pt versions w kill saw and rokkits you will rarely get points back.

I agree mostly, the killsaw is just way to expensive for a model with just 2 attacks.

I'm still going to give the dual rokkits a try, even a lucky hit or two can take a bunch of wounds of vehicles or characters, and you can disengage each turn, fire your rokkits and charge back into combat.
Since you can ignore most intervening models, there is a good chance of catching one of your opponent characters off guard and take 3 wounds off him per hit.

I don't see any reason to take the big shoota though.

 Jidmah wrote:
I agree mostly, the killsaw is just way to expensive for a model with just 2 attacks.

I'm still going to give the dual rokkits a try, even a lucky hit or two can take a bunch of wounds of vehicles or characters, and you can disengage each turn, fire your rokkits and charge back into combat.
Since you can ignore most intervening models, there is a good chance of catching one of your opponent characters off guard and take 3 wounds off him per hit.

I don't see any reason to take the big shoota though.

Twin Big Shootas is 14pts for 6 S5 shots. the KMB Is 9 points for a S8 -3 D3 damage shot, you also suffer a mortal wound if you roll a 1. So you are half as likely to hurt yourself as the enemy.

The Big shootas have a good chance of doing 2 S5 shots a turn which against a 3+ enemy means 1 dead model, or even against a character 1 wound likely. With the KMB you need 3 turns just to guarantee a single hit, you have a 1/6 chance to not wound and they will get a 6+ save still or 5+ if in cover, so i mean its not exactly a sure thing.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I agree mostly, the killsaw is just way to expensive for a model with just 2 attacks.

I'm still going to give the dual rokkits a try, even a lucky hit or two can take a bunch of wounds of vehicles or characters, and you can disengage each turn, fire your rokkits and charge back into combat.
Since you can ignore most intervening models, there is a good chance of catching one of your opponent characters off guard and take 3 wounds off him per hit.

I don't see any reason to take the big shoota though.

Twin Big Shootas is 14pts for 6 S5 shots. the KMB Is 9 points for a S8 -3 D3 damage shot, you also suffer a mortal wound if you roll a 1. So you are half as likely to hurt yourself as the enemy.

The Big shootas have a good chance of doing 2 S5 shots a turn which against a 3+ enemy means 1 dead model, or even against a character 1 wound likely. With the KMB you need 3 turns just to guarantee a single hit, you have a 1/6 chance to not wound and they will get a 6+ save still or 5+ if in cover, so i mean its not exactly a sure thing.

1/6 isn't that big of a deal on a unit with 4 wounds. And I agree the twin big shoots isn't a bad cost. The question is what is the role and point of your deffkoptas if you are looking for anti infantry we have better and cheaper options. The main reason I like deffkoptas is the free bomb makes it the cheapest most efficient way to deal terminators, centorians, bikers and any other tough unit of multiple models. 3x deffkoptas will do an average of 5 mortal wounds and kill 2.5 of those models which have 2 wounds each. After which they can take a few pop shots with kmb and do d3 wounds each which will average another dead terminator equivalent from the 3. IMHO orks problem is dealing with high toughness high save models not hordes. However I agree the twin big shoota isn't bad for the cost. I can deal w a swarm of homagaunts but a single knight warden or paladin is going to seriously wreck orks faces.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I agree mostly, the killsaw is just way to expensive for a model with just 2 attacks.

I'm still going to give the dual rokkits a try, even a lucky hit or two can take a bunch of wounds of vehicles or characters, and you can disengage each turn, fire your rokkits and charge back into combat.
Since you can ignore most intervening models, there is a good chance of catching one of your opponent characters off guard and take 3 wounds off him per hit.

I don't see any reason to take the big shoota though.

Twin Big Shootas is 14pts for 6 S5 shots. the KMB Is 9 points for a S8 -3 D3 damage shot, you also suffer a mortal wound if you roll a 1. So you are half as likely to hurt yourself as the enemy.

The Big shootas have a good chance of doing 2 S5 shots a turn which against a 3+ enemy means 1 dead model, or even against a character 1 wound likely. With the KMB you need 3 turns just to guarantee a single hit, you have a 1/6 chance to not wound and they will get a 6+ save still or 5+ if in cover, so i mean its not exactly a sure thing.

Half as likely to kill yourself? That means KMB is now twice as good as in any of the previous editions

But seriously, I agree with your analysis, but this is not about math comparing the two weapons.

2x Big shoota against MEQ is hit on 5+, wound on 3+, 3+ save, so .44 dead MEQ per round of shooting
2x Rokkit against MEQ is hit on 5+, wound on 2+, 6+ save, means .46 dead MEQ per round of shooting
Since it's not like .02 wounds will ever be noticeable in a game, so lets just assume they are the same - until you start shooting at multi-wound models like vehicles.

The thing is, either I want to take pot shots at the enemy and hope they do something, then you take rokkits. They are more versatile and more dangerous to vehicles and characters while being just as good killing anything with one wound and a 4+ save or better.
Or you want a cheap sacrificial unit and keep it as cheap as possible, then you take KMB.
Equipping twin shootas makes it worse than both, no matter what you do, there is a better option.

 Jidmah wrote:

Half as likely to kill yourself? That means KMB is now twice as good as in any of the previous editions

But seriously, I agree with your analysis, but this is not about math comparing the two weapons.

2x Big shoota against MEQ is hit on 5+, wound on 3+, 3+ save, so .44 dead MEQ per round of shooting
2x Rokkit against MEQ is hit on 5+, wound on 2+, 6+ save, means .46 dead MEQ per round of shooting
Since it's not like .02 wounds will ever be noticeable in a game, so lets just assume they are the same - until you start shooting at multi-wound models like vehicles.

The thing is, either I want to take pot shots at the enemy and hope they do something, then you take rokkits. They are more versatile and more dangerous to vehicles and characters while being just as good killing anything with one wound and a 4+ save or better.
Or you want a cheap sacrificial unit and keep it as cheap as possible, then you take KMB.
Equipping twin shootas makes it worse than both, no matter what you do, there is a better option.

LOL I agree. I am just a bit miffed at the huge points hike those Rokkitz took. They cost about 1/2 of a Space Marine Missile Launcher, but they are 1/2 as likely to hit, 1/2 the range and don't have a secondary firing mode. And Missile Launchers do D6 damage, so the average roll is 3.5 so its actually higher damage then the Rokkit as well. And thats before we get into the platforms that can carry them, IE a Marine with a launcher is significantly more durable then a Tank Busta.

Maybe they should have increased the price by ....3-5pts not 7.

SemperMortis wrote:

you also suffer a mortal wound if you roll a 1. So you are half as likely to hurt yourself as the enemy.

Actually, you also need to wound and go through saves vs the opponent. So, you're more likely to hurt yourself than the opponent if you're shooting a tough target.

Also remeber deffkoptas are one of our few units that can atk other flyers well. Question does deffkoptas ignore hard to hit rules for flyers in the shooting phase?

gungo wrote:
Question does deffkoptas ignore hard to hit rules for flyers in the shooting phase?

No. It'll be in the weapon profile if that's the case.

 JohnU wrote:

gungo wrote:
Question does deffkoptas ignore hard to hit rules for flyers in the shooting phase?

No. It'll be in the weapon profile if that's the case.

Ya I don't see any anti flyer unit ignoring that rule even the traktor gun which is our anti flyer or dakkajet. Which makes shooting flyers extremely difficult with orks. I was hoping units with flying rules had some interaction that ignored that rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the kmb deffkoptas and I don't have a lot of points to spare!
Ghazkull = 215
Nob w waaagh banner = 79

30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoota) = 180
30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoots) = 180

5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig x2)= 105
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig x2)= 105
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig) = 95
-battlewagon (deffrolla) = 180

5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45

Deffkopta (bomb, KMB) = 64
Deffkopta (bomb, KMB) = 64
Deffkopta (bomb, KMB) = 64

15 stormboys (nob w big choppa) = 129
Boss zagstruk = 88

Mekgun (kmk, 5 grots) = 48
Mekgun (kmk, 5 grots) = 48

meka dread (kff, dreadklaw, rattler kannon) = 221?
2000 total

That's about as good as I can get a TAC list and hopefully the mekadread doesn't cost to much with a kff. The deffkoptas are a single unit and the Mek guns a single unit. 13 drops since gw FAQ today confirmed kommandos and all reserve units count as drops for first turn.
I'm. It sure how effective kommandos will be at tying up shooting units I might be better off with another 15 stormboys w nob w big choppa. ( I just don't have the models yet for that)

Being able to declare charges on units you can't see is pretty cool. And they can't shoot overwatch.

 JohnU wrote:
Being able to declare charges on units you can't see is pretty cool. And they can't shoot overwatch.

yep, can use trukks to block LOS to avoid overwatch and then run around them

Ok, reporting in from my first game of 8th!

I played against my friend who played his Nids. 1000 points.

DON'T LET GENESTEALERS INTO MELEE! DAKKA THEM TO SHREADS ALL YOU LIKE BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GORK AND MORK THEY WILL TEAR THROUGH YOUR BOYZ!

I made that mistake and it cost me dearly. Other than that my nob goonsquad with my painboy absolutely annihilated his hive tyrant. I had a battlewagon that got some decent shooting in the first turn but then it got tied up in melee for the rest of the game and I don't have a deffrolla sprue so it pretty much was just there tie up some of his units after my first turn. The +1 attack warlord trait is quite nice on a warboss with a powerklaw.

Also, the strategem that lets a unit strike first against chargers is very powerful.

More things: don't surprised if a trukk with a wreckin' ball misses all its hits, my trukk was in 2 rounds of combat and it got a whopping 1 hit (and it needed a 3 to wound but rolled a 2). I was sad about it's poor performance but in hindsight hitting on 5s is pretty bad. Nice that the wreckin' ball is cheap as chips though.

Boyz evaporate before large numbers of attacks. The 6+ save makes them SOOOO squishy. The 6+ FNP from the painboy does give them a slight increase in durability, but if a unit can put out tons of attacks like genestealers or a large amount of hormagaunts, they'll drop in droves. And then you're sad cuzz ya boyz iz ded.

Hey guys, I've noticed something strange about the wording of the wazbom blastajet. It says; this model may replace both wazbom mega-kannons with TWO tellyport mega-blasta. So does this mean that you can equip the wazbom with 4 tellyport mega-blastas?

Since you may replace both of them with two, not one or a, but two. If you look at other units where two weapons may be replaced, like dreads, they say "a" not two...

What do you guys think?

Gruxz wrote:
Hey guys, I've noticed something strange about the wording of the wazbom blastajet. It says; this model may replace both wazbom mega-kannons with TWO tellyport mega-blasta. So does this mean that you can equip the wazbom with 4 tellyport mega-blastas?

Since you may replace both of them with two, not one or a, but two. If you look at other units where two weapons may be replaced, like dreads, they say "a" not two...

What do you guys think?

As it says BOTH instead of A, I think it's pretty safe to assume that you swap each mega-kannon for one tellyporta- blasta, however you can only have mega-kannons or tellyporta blastas equiped; hence the BOTH.

What are some of the best things you guys are building in your lists to take advantage of command points? For example, taking 15 Lootas so you can deliberately reroll the number of shots when you roll one.

 Rismonite wrote:
What are some of the best things you guys are building in your lists to take advantage of command points? For example, taking 15 Lootas so you can deliberately reroll the number of shots when you roll one.

Trying to reroll the flashiest gits roll too

Hey so a while back I remember that it was being discussed if Ere We go lets you choose to only re-roll one dice. Was it ever proven one way or the other? I showed my club the Re-rolls section of the rule book that was posted on here a while back stating what re-rolls do, but they argued it was simply telling you what they do instead of giving permission to only re-roll certain dice in the case of ere we go which honestly seems very fair.

Now I am not good at all with debating RAW so I was hoping someone on here could set me straight with some proof one way or the other.

 Rismonite wrote:
What are some of the best things you guys are building in your lists to take advantage of command points? For example, taking 15 Lootas so you can deliberately reroll the number of shots when you roll one.

Bubble chukka w command points reroll is absolutely brutal.
Roll 4 die, reroll lowest into something better, then take lowest and put it into AP, opponent takes next lowest and likely drops it into strength you then choose either more atks or more damage depending on your intended target. You will usually end up with something like 6 atks at str4 ap-2 and 5 damage. I would have rather like to see str be die +1, but with command points the bubblemchukka is a very orks and can be extremely powerful. However if you roll 4 die extremely poorly like 1,1,2,3,4. Save the command point reroll as you clubbed that roll that turn.

@Tibs Ironblood; It was never proven one way or the other - imo it's pretty clear that it's simply describing what dice can potentially be re-rolled, depending on the rule; in the case of 'Ere We Go, since a charge roll rolls two dice, and 'Ere We Go rerolls charge rolls - it seems that it's 2d6 or nothing.

If you want 1d6, you'll need to use a command point.

But again, it hasn't been clarified one way or the other - I'd go with the more fair interpretation.

Got another game of 8th in today, let me share my limited findings.

Boyz: Amazing. I used Ghaz and Warpath and carved through units of Primaris Marines like they were nothing. That same unit of boyz then charged his BUFF BUBBLE unit and had 14 boyz and 1 nob left out of a squad of 27 (this is turn 3 mind you) They wiped them out with the Nob delivering the Coup De Grace with his Big choppa. Totally worth their points when properly buffed.

Nobz with Big Choppas: I was not impressed, I fielded 5 Nobz with Big Choppas and they were lackluster at best. I think my next game im going to have to try the Klaws out.

Ghaz: Beat stick....simple as that, when he wasn't buffing every ork near him he was eating Rhinos and pummeling Primaris Marines.

Weirdboy: So....Smite is amazing. Turn 1 My weirdboy who was near 20 Ork boyz was able to see a Scout squad camping a tower near my lines so he went Brrrrt and rolled a 9 +2 = 11. I rolled a 6 with my D6 and killed 3 Scouts with bolters 1 with a sniper rifle and a sergeant Beyond that his power was "Da Jump" and I never got to use it because of how the game turned out. I did use a 2nd weird boy for Warpath and yeah....nice.

Killa Kanz: I ran 12 Killa Kanz in 2 squads armed with Rokkitz. They did piss poor. Not their fault I don't think, just the way the game was set up and what was across from them. (Plasma Cannons at max range) they did manage to kill 3 scouts with their rokkitz and then rolled over a speed bump 10 man SM assault squad but then the game ended before they could achieve their primary objective, silencing those plasma Cannons.

Kommandos: Not impressed with their ability to do much. I used 3 squads of 5 kommandos, each armed with a Nob/BC and 2 Burnas because they are free so why not? First off, the burnas did almost nothing the entire game, it was actually rather disappointing. This has more to do with the Ork boyz stats and the D3 then anything else. In the shooting phase it does D3 which sucks, its basically 2 hits and 1 wound against T4 with no AP modifier, this sucks, I can't over state how crap that is. Then in the assault phase its only 2 attacks hitting on 3s and wounding on 4s against T4. This won't even kill a MEQ on average. The Nob with BC didn't do much better and their cover save bonus was negligible to say the least. Now with that negativity out of the way they are a GREAT distraction unit. Each one tied up an enemy units attention for at least 1 turn and caused at least 1 wound against their targets before dying gloriously. So in reality they aren't anything other then a distraction unit to allow your boyz and more choppy brethren to close with and destroy the enemy.

And the Big one.

Deffkoptas: WOW!!!!! First off I tried 2 units of 3, each armed with the KMB to give it a shot. First impression with the KMB? UTTER CRAP!!!! I hurt myself more then the enemy with this thing. Once they got into CC however, they were still crap! the D3 hits instead of 1 is nice and gives it 4 attacks on average but they are only S5 and no AP Modifier so most Marines just shrug it off (3 models = 12 attacks hitting on 3s for 8 hits wounding on 3s for 5-6 wounds against a 3+ = 2 Dead Marines.)

So why are the Deff Koptas so great? two words "Big Bomm" This thing is the absolute destroyer of worlds for Ork Players. My 2 units became bogged down by 2 units of Tac Marines so what did they do? Disengaged, flew over them and dropped a total of 5 bombs between the two units that UTTERLY destroyed them both it was brilliant.