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Amendment to my previous post:

Ok, let's try it like this.

Is the Battlewagon effected by "-1 to hit, from moving and firing heavy weapons modifier"? No - it's not; because it's entirely ignored.

Thus, there is no penalty to transfer to the passengers.

Open-topped transfers any penalties that are on the vehicle to the unit inside - despite having moved, there are no penalties applied to the Battlewagon, thus there's nothing to transfer.

Right?

And what about them boys? For example: you take 2 blobs of 30 with ghazzy, painboy en big mek with KFF in between for the obvious buffs.

I feel it has potential to make around 10 boys shootaboys to have some shooting on the way, they can take the wounds and you'll have the sluggaboys left when arriving in CC, and dealt more wounds (but possible a turn later in CC)
but on the other side, if you go full sluggaboys, the advance is the way to go, and you have possibility (pray to the dicegods) of turn 2 charge.
Or split them up and give them wheels (waaay more expensive and no buffs on the way over)

 KommissarKiln wrote:
How are Orks to deal with Tau? (Sorry if this has been addressed, I skipped a few pages) A couple major issues come to mind...

- Multiple overwatches per charge by Tau is now faction-wide rule for them. Sure, it mentions no further overwatch from the supporting unit that phase, but a Tau gun line will have *lots* of shooty units, Orks will have fewer assault units in order to have any sort of shooting ability, and will surely take casualties if it's not a turn 1 charge. And this is the minor issue compared to...

-The Tau army is like 85% fly. Every single tank, every single battlesuit (except broadsides iirc), and every single drone can fall back from combat and shoot next turn. There's practically no benefit to charging their shootiest, killiest units. IG can be heavily disrupted by charges, I'm sure a decent proportion of Marine, Necron, and even Eldar units have to deal with the penalty of falling back, but when you can build an army with basically 0 troops, how to you deal with an army that spams shooty fly units as an assault army?

Lots of Zzap guns works wonders against Tau, as they will one-shot crisis-suits and two-shot broadsides. The biggest problem with the Zzap guns and Kannons is to get hold of the models. Consider casting your own, because you will need a lot.

Ghazzkgul in a closed top wagon is also a great bet, as T8 really healps against Tau, and the Kustom-klaw deals af flat 3 damage. The rest of the wagon can be filled with boyz, nobz with a few stabbas, a weirdboy with warpath (and smite) and a painboy would also come in handy.

Tankbustas would be decent, but Tau walkers are not vehicles (even the riptide is classified as a monster) so Tankbustas does not get the reroll against them, and bombsquigs are useless against most things Tau. Another option
is wartrakks with skorchas. Don't deepstrike them, just run them straigt at his gunline drawing fire.

If you take some Kustom Blasta Kannons, you should consider deploying a Big Mek with a shokk attak gun nearby. The Big Mek can help repair the self-inflicted damage of the artillery while at the same time adding his own dakka.

Deffkoptas with bigbomm is also a decent if you take at least 3 or 4 of them. With rokkits they get kind of expensive for a 4 wound model though.

pismakron wrote:

 KommissarKiln wrote:
How are Orks to deal with Tau? (Sorry if this has been addressed, I skipped a few pages) A couple major issues come to mind...

- Multiple overwatches per charge by Tau is now faction-wide rule for them. Sure, it mentions no further overwatch from the supporting unit that phase, but a Tau gun line will have *lots* of shooty units, Orks will have fewer assault units in order to have any sort of shooting ability, and will surely take casualties if it's not a turn 1 charge. And this is the minor issue compared to...

-The Tau army is like 85% fly. Every single tank, every single battlesuit (except broadsides iirc), and every single drone can fall back from combat and shoot next turn. There's practically no benefit to charging their shootiest, killiest units. IG can be heavily disrupted by charges, I'm sure a decent proportion of Marine, Necron, and even Eldar units have to deal with the penalty of falling back, but when you can build an army with basically 0 troops, how to you deal with an army that spams shooty fly units as an assault army?

Lots of Zzap guns works wonders against Tau, as they will one-shot crisis-suits and two-shot broadsides. The biggest problem with the Zzap guns and Kannons is to get hold of the models. Consider casting your own, because you will need a lot.

Ghazzkgul in a closed top wagon is also a great bet, as T8 really healps against Tau, and the Kustom-klaw deals af flat 3 damage. The rest of the wagon can be filled with boyz, nobz with a few stabbas, a weirdboy with warpath (and smite) and a painboy would also come in handy.

Tankbustas would be decent, but Tau walkers are not vehicles (even the riptide is classified as a monster) so Tankbustas does not get the reroll against them, and bombsquigs are useless against most things Tau. Another option
is wartrakks with skorchas. Don't deepstrike them, just run them straigt at his gunline drawing fire.

If you take some Kustom Blasta Kannons, you should consider deploying a Big Mek with a shokk attak gun nearby. The Big Mek can help repair the self-inflicted damage of the artillery while at the same time adding his own dakka.

Deffkoptas with bigbomm is also a decent if you take at least 3 or 4 of them. With rokkits they get kind of expensive for a 4 wound model though.

Anvil Industry have cheap kannons and zzap guns. I use these two:

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/howitzer
http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/regiments-tesla-annihilator-heavy-support-weapon

With this platform: http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/field-gun-platform

5 pounds per gun is pretty excellent!

I'm still being told that mobile fortress doesnt apply to the passengers for the follwoing reasons:

In this case, the vehicle ignores the modifier but its still applied to the passengers as the passengers don't have the mobile fortress rule... And the rule itself states that it applies to the battlewagon.

and

But the Mobile Fortress rule is not a modifier itself. It is ignoring a negative modifier. The vehicle still suffers the -1 modifier for moving and firing heavy weapons, and then ignores it due to Mobile Fortress. The passengers do not.

Another thought I had was whether a hybrid of speed freaks and green tide would be effective. I'm talking 30 strong units of Stormboyz in place of normal Boyz, large units of Bikers and/or Nob bikers, having your buff characters (Warboss/KFF Mek/Painboy) on bikes, Trukks, Koptas, and Buggies en masse. With so many of these units having 14" move and with a Warboss still nearby permitting the advance, there should be a very good chance of getting numerous charges off on the first turn.

Strategy would be pretty straightforward, just get into combat before the opponent gets much chance to shoot. I'd imagine Trukks and to a lesser extent Koptas/Buggies eat the most overwatch, Stormboy units are large enough to pile in on extra units and dish out lots of attacks, and a large BC Nob bike unit can deal with the tougher enemies. Even other CC armies would probably have a tough time if you can charge most of your units in on the same turn, since only one charge can be overriden by a command point.

 Gargantuan wrote:


Anvil Industry have cheap kannons and zzap guns. I use these two:

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/howitzer
http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/regiments-tesla-annihilator-heavy-support-weapon

With this platform: http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/field-gun-platform

5 pounds per gun is pretty excellent!

Do you have any pictures? These look like they would be to small, especially compared to my existing 5 mek gunz.

What size base are the new gunz on?

SemperMortis wrote:

 Gargantuan wrote:


Anvil Industry have cheap kannons and zzap guns. I use these two:

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/howitzer
http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/regiments-tesla-annihilator-heavy-support-weapon

With this platform: http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-heavy-support-weapons/field-gun-platform

5 pounds per gun is pretty excellent!

Do you have any pictures? These look like they would be to small, especially compared to my existing 5 mek gunz.

Mek Gunz and Big Gunz are different beasts. Mek Gunz have 6 wounds versus the Big gunz 3 wounds. The anvil guns are very similar to GW's own big gunz. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Ork-Big-Gun-Kannon

Trukks (and other cheap vehicles) have always been the staple of my army. I now see they are damn expensive in 8th. So no more 4-6 units of trukkboys. What are your huys thoughts on this?

And I've not read an opinion on the new buggies yet. Are they any good? (they also look very expensive)

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Trukks (and other cheap vehicles) have always been the staple of my army. I now see they are damn expensive in 8th. So no more 4-6 units of trukkboys. What are your huys thoughts on this?

And I've not read an opinion on the new buggies yet. Are they any good? (they also look very expensive)

If your trukk boyz were choppa boyz, then they are worth their cost. They can charge into one unit and slide into another, locking both and eating all the overwatch.

I haven't played a 2000 point game yet but I will take my 7 when I do.

Played first game last night vs ig 2k points

Big guns never tire eternal war mission

I brought patrol + spearhead 4 CP

Patrol detachment
Ghaz
Nob with banner
3 manz 1 with saws
Boys x20 pk nob
Trukk with ball
Wagon with rolla x 2
Dakka jet with 6 supa shootas

Spearhead detachment
Weird boy (da jump )
Wagon with rolla
Lootas x9
Lootas x5
Flash gitz x10 + 10 runts

Enemy brought
Brigade detachment 9 + something else +2 for total of 14 CP (all used to re roll number of shots from big cannons)
Creed
Some Psyker
3 leman russes with lots of dakka
3 chimera with 10 vets each (maybe 4)
5-6 vets squads with heavy weapons teams on foot
3 sentinels with flamers

Ork T1 board after ork movement (orks went first, only 5 drops!)


Moved up with most things, gits moved laterally
Nearside flank has gits in a wagon
Middle wagon is full of lootas
Trukk has manz and chars
Far wagon has 20 boys

I manage to down nearside sentinel and 4 wounds on chimera in shooting between jet and gitz
Lootas kill a few infantry in middle of board

IG t1
Shuffles around , hides farside sentinels in Los blocking smoke to stop lootas
Disembarks vets near jet and buffs them +1 armor in psychic
shooting puts 10 wounds on jet (flashlights omg)
9w on boys wagon
1 on trukk

Ork t2
Boys manz ghaz nob and weirboy all disembark and advance various amounts staying within 6 of ghaz/nob. Manz over hill toward central forces and boys/ghaz/nob to flank behind LOS blocking hill. All manage to get just outside 1" away from a chimera, 2 sentinels.
Boys wagon and trukk move For charges on sentinels
Lootas disembark into forest on objective and wagon moves forward 12 and advances 3 I think towards Russ in middle of board gits wheel around a bit to stay on obj but get in range of more targets
Plane modes over his back line in case it explodes

Smite does 2-3 wounds to a russ.

Lootas kill a few infantry shooting on 6s from disembark, few more run from Morale. Other lootas fail to wound russ in center of his forces


Gits kill chimera, 4/10 vets who jumped out last turn, and 5-6 from another squad, 3 More run away from Morale

Jet kills a few infantry

Boys plink a wound off chimera with guns

Ghaz and nob assault chimera, ghaz absorbs overwatxh and I reroll his failed armor saves two dif times. (2/4 CP used)
They both make it, wagon charges one sentinel, trukk the other, wagon takes 2 more wounds on way in. Boys charge chimera with vets inside, and 2 sentinels. Chimera overwatch boys and I pass the one 5+ thanks to cover (clutch as they were exactly 20 strong)
Ghaz kills chimera by himself, it explodes dealing 2 mortal wounds to himself and one to my nob.
Boys wrecked the chimera, and whiffed vs sentinel. Trukk failed charge, wagon made it, fluffed its attacks and was so hurt it needed 4s to wound.
After melee the vets inside both squads were now within 1" of orks who surrounded their vehicle, and were "locked in" as we saw it, and got free swings vs my boys and ghaz/nob in 2 diff examples

Manz in middle make charge vs Russ, do a few wounds but fail to finish it.

Ig turn 2

Shuffles stuff around more, falls back with Russ from manz

Can't shoot anything worthwhile near boys with his Russ as forgot to fall back with sentinels

Banner Nob out alone in front, shot at some but no Los from Russ thank god. He takes 2 wounds but passes them both.
Downs Dakka jet
7 wounds done to loota wagon
Kills 1 man from combined shooting and wounds another once
Swings on ghaz, ghaz kills everyone in squad he attacks. Nob has nothing to swing on
Vets kill 4-5 boys, boys wipe out all vets, and do 2-3 wounds to a distraction-chicken-sentinel-thing and thru consolidation/piling in are able to get within 1" of a Russ preventing it from firing the following turn

Orks t3

Empty Loota wagon charges Russ, flails about as it's barely alive and they don't do anything to one another
Gits kill a ton of infantry, that flank is empty aside from a small squad and some hiddden characters
Lootas finish off most infantry in ruins, final 2 flee.
Solo saw man now outside of ghaz and banner makes charge into Russ, ork takes a wound and then does nothing in return
Boys + pk nob kill Russ
Wagons trukks and sentinels flail at each other, along with 3 boys still stuck in with sentinel.
Ghaz charges a vet squad on ground and kills them all and is unharmed.

Ig concedes as it's getting very late. Game could of gone either way still, but I had a good feeling, plus with my heavy-filled list I was lucky we got big gun mission. I erroneously moved into objectives t1 and didn't get good shooting targets with gits as we erroneously read obj were scored each turn.


All in all my takeaways were:

Gits are strong, did better than my lootas. Ammo runts are huge. Max em out.

Manz need the banner for suuuuure. Not worth points without support structure. Ghaz helps them out a lot as well. A squad of 6 with saws is 24 attacks +6 from
Ghaz then + 6 from warpath if you can get it off. Those 2 buffs provide the equivalent of 12 attacks or 4 more base meganobs with upgrades ... that's 216 points of "free" attacks, s10 ones. Compared to boys.. 20 boys with choppas get 80 base, then +40 from buffs, or the same as 10 boys with choppas for "free"... which is only 60 points of "free" attacks

See where I'm going? More bang for your buck using ghaz and manz potentially on a basis of what you get with those free attacks? Just a thought.

20 boys hitting on 2s was insane. Banner is gold. Ghaz is gold.

Jet was easily shot down now

Ard case is important for dedicated melee units. Big difference from t7 to t8.

Smite spam seems very feasible as well.



A question that arose in game, not sure if we played right. Vehicles can advance? I didn't try advancing and charging with them on same turn as they were too far from ghaz, but I forgot to even check if they were allowed to do it like boys etc




Hopefully this helps someone. Nothing wrong at all with trukks, more resilient for sure. Mine has never ever ever lasted as long as it did last night. In combination with some higher priority targets (wagon with rolla) all speeding together I think you have enough Target saturation to get stuff thru

Vehicles can advance, but not advance and charge. Ghaz and the Warboss only affect Ork Infantry.

Good idea using those smoke pieces as terrain. Thought I'd have to put mine away with the new vehicle rules, but it looks pretty good.

Why can't you use the smoke tea lights for vehicle explodes results?

gungo wrote:
Why can't you use the smoke tea lights for vehicle explodes results?

I'm guessing because vehicles no longer stay on the table after they are destroyed.

 Funzeez wrote:

gungo wrote:
Why can't you use the smoke tea lights for vehicle explodes results?

I'm guessing because vehicles no longer stay on the table after they are destroyed.

thats what I was told last night. was a bummer as I planned to use his wrecked chimera for LOS block, but apparently not :x

plus had all dem tea lights to use

skyfi wrote:

 Funzeez wrote:

gungo wrote:
Why can't you use the smoke tea lights for vehicle explodes results?

I'm guessing because vehicles no longer stay on the table after they are destroyed.

thats what I was told last night. was a bummer as I planned to use his wrecked chimera for LOS block, but apparently not :x

plus had all dem tea lights to use

House rule that gak. Smoke tea lights are too awesome and cool looking not to use.
On an actual explode result (which is fairly rare)
Place a smoke tea light down which acts as line of site blocking terrain (or cover) but doesn't restrict movement.
You don't want them restricting movement since the way 8th ed works with terrain means they could block all accessible paths for vehicles.

How exactly are you guys ruling ammo runts? The rule says "...every time this unit shoots..."

Does that mean that I get to use the ammo runt twice for kombi-rokkit? Each different weapon is one time that the unit shoots.

To get extreme, what if I split fire every nob onto a different unit? can I use a single ammo runt for all 20 shootings (10 rokkit, 10 shoota)???

It doesn't say it's only once per game, so I say do it for as many times as you can while the runt is alive. Like 90% of the rules for this edition it's only half written or too vague.

I need help. Harlequin skimmers and bikes are chappin' my arse and chippin' me teef.

They outrun EVERYTHING except for Stormboyz, and all shooting aside from Grots is on a 6+ against them. I'm seriously considering bringing full units of Skorchas to chase them next time I play my friend that plays Harlequins, they're the only thing I can think of that can reliably catch and hit those stupid panzies with their abundance of special rules.

I haven't played against harlequins, but the oldest tactic against fast eldar or dark eldar skimmers is to just field tons of ork boyz.

At some point they will simply run out of space to run to.

Another thought: Smite does not need to hit.

A squad of 3x cheap deffkoptas w bombs.
It moves 20in in your movement and as long as you end your movement 2in over them you can drop a bomb.
That doesn't care about the Mirage rule or any modifier.
and does 5x mortal wounds on a 5+ each per deffkopta to a squad of 5 bikes and doesn't care about invul sv.
3x deffkoptas will average 5 mortal wounds.
Follow this w stormboys
The void weaver and star weaver are vehicles and tankbustas reroll tohit vs them.
Beyond that i don't know I think stormboyz w zagstrukk is our go to anti flyer unit for tau and jetbikes.
There is a flyer that bombs the heck out of infantry w mortal wounds as well I'm just not sold on our flyers as they are expensive and still not durable for the price.

w00t

Has anyone got eyes on rules for either the Squiggoths or the Kill Tanks? (I use both in my army).

Considering how normal vehicles have 'melee' stats, I'm expecting the Squiggoths to be beasts and so much more durable than they were in 7th. Can't wait.

I hear alot of people making a case for Deffkoptas because of their bombs, but couldnt a blitzabomba more easily achieve TWO more damaging bomb drops for less points even?

They are cheaper than dakkajets.

Two jets for 268 points, potentially 20 mortal wounds on two turns on a 4+.

Bigdoza wrote:
I hear alot of people making a case for Deffkoptas because of their bombs, but couldnt a blitzabomba more easily achieve TWO more damaging bomb drops for less points even?

They are cheaper than dakkajets.

THey have restrictions on their movement, and less utility after the bombs have been dropped.

It's not out till Saturday no ones seen it but reportedly a few people at warhammer world.

I expect squiggoth to be t6 low teens in wounds 3+ sv str 6 a slower trukk w better melee.
Gargantuan to be t7/t8 low 20s wounds 3+ sv str8 a slower battlewagon w better melee.
Both Have transport and some crazy FW bespoke rule

a kill tank to be t8 since baneblade is t8 and stompa t8
and t9+ is like Titan territory. Basically Ork varient of baneblade but w worse bs.

All of the above is conjecture but I don't expect orks to make out from the changes to blast weapons even if we get something crazy like 2d6 hits +d6 more vs10+ models. The reason being is that bs5+ sucks especially with all the -1 hit modifiers. If the gargantuan squiggoth is a more durable and more assaultybut slower battlewagon I expect it to be a better gunwagon for orks if it gets a usable mobile fortess rule.

Zhardsnark kustom stompa buzzgrob and dreads I have high hope for. I'd love if FW made cybork as a unit of 5+ fnp orks would be awesome this edition. But sadly no model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

Bigdoza wrote:
I hear alot of people making a case for Deffkoptas because of their bombs, but couldnt a blitzabomba more easily achieve TWO more damaging bomb drops for less points even?

They are cheaper than dakkajets.

THey have restrictions on their movement, and less utility after the bombs have been dropped.

Blitza bomber has issues.
Movement makes it much more difficult to fly over the unit you want.
Price is The same as the 2x deffkopta w twin shoota 69 each
And most monstrous and vehicles you want the bombs to target will only be in units of 1
I see the deffkopta as an elite unit infantry killer. Terminators, centurions, bikes, jetbikes, those mechanicum infantry roboTs. High save, invul high toughness models in units of 3+ models. The deffkopta has a cap of 5x models at 5+ to hit not effected by modifiers.
The blitza has a cap of 10 models 4+ to hit not effected by modifera.
I don't expect to see many units of those high priced models of 10 models.
I find the jets not really durable enough and the blitza back up weapon is just a twin shoota and big shoota.
So your question is if 2 twin shootas w 2 bombs on a more mobile platform worth dropping for 3x shoota, 2x bombs (that can't all be drppped same turn) on a less noble platfor and hits on 4+? I don't think it isbrxause I like the mobility and dropping all my bombs at once. Also infantry can hide in ruins, the jet is a bit more durable but can't really hide or get cover or assault. .

I like the dalkkajet best 18x str6 ap-1 shots at 4+ to hit is our best horde killer outside of boy blobs and even threatens low end monstrous creatures.

 JimOnMars wrote:
How exactly are you guys ruling ammo runts? The rule says "...every time this unit shoots..."

Does that mean that I get to use the ammo runt twice for kombi-rokkit? Each different weapon is one time that the unit shoots.

To get extreme, what if I split fire every nob onto a different unit? can I use a single ammo runt for all 20 shootings (10 rokkit, 10 shoota)???

I do one re-roll per runt for all shots total. Even though you're resolving Kombi portions and split fire separately I still consider it the unit as a whole making their shooting attack. So if I had 5 runts, only 5 re-rolls.

I dont see why they need to be high priced models to justify a big bomb drop.

IE : 20 man blob of warriors - Two bombs almost guarantees equal exchange of points with your random kill here and there from other guns as a bonus.

I was thinking of using them to hit devastators in cover asap, their 2+ save and papa smurf buff is real.

Bigdoza wrote:
I dont see why they need to be high priced models to justify a big bomb drop.

IE : 20 man blob of warriors - Two bombs almost guarantees equal exchange of points with your random kill here and there from other guns as a bonus.

I was thinking of using them to hit devastators in cover asap, their 2+ save and papa smurf buff is real.

It doesn't need to drop on any models. If there is no high price model drop a dakkdajet bomb on any unit of 5+ models.
It's just really efficient vs those high save, high invul, high toughness infantry since its unmodified to hit mortal wounds.
You can kill a squad of TAC marines or necron warriors with pretty much anything boy melee atks, mass shootas, etc. but if I try to kill a bunch of t5, 2+ sv models w boys or shootas it's going to take a while...
The blitza bomber is good too it's just more difficult to fly over ur target unit.

zend wrote:

I need help. Harlequin skimmers and bikes are chappin' my arse and chippin' me teef.

They outrun EVERYTHING except for Stormboyz, and all shooting aside from Grots is on a 6+ against them. I'm seriously considering bringing full units of Skorchas to chase them next time I play my friend that plays Harlequins, they're the only thing I can think of that can reliably catch and hit those stupid panzies with their abundance of special rules.

take shoota boys with nobz with combi skorchas. Either trukk borne or walking, or both. Cheaper unit than the harlies they would cook.