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I may also be biased because i hate the pile of AoBR deffkoptas I have.

Our meta is pretty competitive, so deffkoptas, walkers and flyers are no go cause they're overpriced and never live through an alpha-strike. But regular boyz are another story. They're cheap enough and now have seen an increase in speed. Durability is meh but they at least have a chance to make their points back.

I'm interested to see how an Ork Biker army might work with Zhadsnark. Would definitely pull me back towards Orks.

 koooaei wrote:
Our meta is pretty competitive, so deffkoptas, walkers and flyers are no go cause they're overpriced and never live through an alpha-strike. But regular boyz are another story. They're cheap enough and now have seen an increase in speed. Durability is meh but they at least have a chance to make their points back.

Sounds like your meta has an aversion to terrain that blocks line of sight.

Deffkoptas can start in tactical reserves so that answer is mind boggling.

A dakkajet has 12 wounds, with average math hammer rolls from lascannons (or any str7-11 shot with ap-3 and d6 damage per wound)it should take an average of 6 wounds to go through to get the 4.x number of damaging wounds to take it out(considering damage of 3.5 per each), which needs 12 lascannon or equivalent shots shots to alpha strike it alone.

The -1 to hit is pretty significant, to put that into perspective that is an average of 18 damage to a non hard to hit target from the same 12 shots, or a dead BW, or likely dead gorka/morka-naut. (It would have a 6+ save still if the ap is -3)

If your units listed above are being alpha striked then any vehicle in your meta is worthless- which seems wrong. In those terms a dakka jet being gunned down is underpriced compared to losing a gorkanaut or BW to the exact same attacks.

Deffkoptas are 64 pts each 69 if you want the twin big shoota and small hide able model that moves 20ins w an assault weapons. Its not that overpriced unless you get kopta rokkits (Dont do it). If you are not playing advanced terrain rules they also get cover saves advance rules means they need to be 50% obscured.

I also find our flyers easy to kill. They don't get cover and SO many units can assault flyers now (and flyers are horrible in combat) and everything can hit/wound them. They are also fairly predictable movement wise and flamers can destroy them.

It's pretty overpriced when a plasma scion comsquad costs 64 and kills around 2 koptas emidiately and than you need to test ld. Sure, you can wait till the scions drop to try to outflank but than the basilisks will kill your stuff. And even when you arrive, you don't deal all that much damage with those bigshootas.

My last 2 games were explictly against scion comsuads, conscripts and basilisks. So, i got to have the strongest stuff orks can provide to stand a chance.

I've found that boyz + wierdboyz with a help of stormboyz work vs such tough lists. And boyz can handle sm - even sm gunlines with devastator/razorback spam. The trick is speed and lucky charges. And lots of cheap stuff that's even cheaper than scions.

We'll wait and see how gw changes point costs but so far i'm not seeing koptas, walkers and flyers to be very useful for such price vs competitive lists. They're just too easy to kill and don't deal all that much damage in return. Great for fun games though.

scion comm squads are basically the most overpowered unit in the game right now.
You can blame cheap plasma
super effiecient comm squads that allow 4 specials for EVERY MODEL
or cheap deep striking scions that deploy in rapid fire range
but all of the above together makes them ridiculously efficient and undercosted.
and this is before you include the fact they are 3+ to hit and can take orders to reroll 1s and ignore gets hot rolls.
It was rumoured several times they are looking at a nerf sooner then later. ( I would think the idea is to raise the cost of scion command squad 1ppm and raise plasmagun 1ppm) 16ppm to 18ppm might not see like a huge deal but it can add up & make reg scion squads seem better.
I wouldn't count them on staying that efficient for long (and I play IG as well)
basilisks are fine (even w a master of ordinance)
conscripts are debateable on if the need to be boosted to 4ppm from 3ppm but id like to see some actual tourney results (they might be ok at 4ppm if a bit underwhelming)... they are pretty weak and comparable to pink horrors, termagaunts, and other shooty horde units. (not really grots who are more assault oriented and are poor at it)

The reason you are doing better vs plasma scions is plasma scions are OVERKILL vs basic choppa boyz. I find only a KFF helps boys durability enough to allow a 30 unit strong boy blob to survive with enough models to retain their greentide buff and wreck face in combat. I find ghaz is a force multiplier with boy heavy lists. His ability is statistically better then banner nob and works on multiple units compared to the weirdboys single unit and deniable power.
Im not looking for deffkoptas to survive beyond their turn 1 drop of bombs. They are there to harass and take pop shots while grabbing objectives after they deliver their load.

It's insane how much conscripts are better than grots for the same point cost. And have always been.

 koooaei wrote:
It's insane how much conscripts are better than grots for the same point cost. And have always been.

It gets worse when you compare the commissar + conscript combo to that of the runtherd + grotz.

Just got the FW index. Initial read-through is pretty lackluster for Orks. Characters are fine, but no interesting rules. Vehicles are expensive. Lifta droppa doesn't chuck stuff.

Meh

 JohnU wrote:
Just got the FW index. Initial read-through is pretty lackluster for Orks. Characters are fine, but no interesting rules. Vehicles are expensive. Lifta droppa doesn't chuck stuff.

Meh

About in line with what people were guessing. In 7th I really wanted a squiggoth, but with trukks being MCs now it's not so critical. Pass.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Just got the FW index. Initial read-through is pretty lackluster for Orks. Characters are fine, but no interesting rules. Vehicles are expensive. Lifta droppa doesn't chuck stuff.

Meh

About in line with what people were guessing. In 7th I really wanted a squiggoth, but with trukks being MCs now it's not so critical. Pass.

Little Squiggoth is ok. 15 points more than a BW w/ Rolla. 2 more wounds but only 10 model transport and 10" move at full wounds. Deals D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ when it charges. Decent melee weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howdah let's passengers shoot even if a unit is within 1" but they can't shoot that unit.

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Just got the FW index. Initial read-through is pretty lackluster for Orks. Characters are fine, but no interesting rules. Vehicles are expensive. Lifta droppa doesn't chuck stuff.

Meh

About in line with what people were guessing. In 7th I really wanted a squiggoth, but with trukks being MCs now it's not so critical. Pass.

Little Squiggoth is ok. 15 points more than a BW w/ Rolla. 2 more wounds but only 10 model transport and 10" move at full wounds. Deals D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ when it charges. Decent melee weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howdah let's passengers shoot even if a unit is within 1" but they can't shoot that unit.

10 model transport only? fething sad. Damn, I'm going to have to do some rearranging for my army.

gungo wrote:
scion comm squads are basically the most overpowered unit in the game right now.
You can blame cheap plasma
super effiecient comm squads that allow 4 specials for EVERY MODEL
or cheap deep striking scions that deploy in rapid fire range
but all of the above together makes them ridiculously efficient and undercosted.
and this is before you include the fact they are 3+ to hit and can take orders to reroll 1s and ignore gets hot rolls.
It was rumoured several times they are looking at a nerf sooner then later. ( I would think the idea is to raise the cost of scion command squad 1ppm and raise plasmagun 1ppm) 16ppm to 18ppm might not see like a huge deal but it can add up & make reg scion squads seem better.
I wouldn't count them on staying that efficient for long (and I play IG as well)
basilisks are fine (even w a master of ordinance)
conscripts are debateable on if the need to be boosted to 4ppm from 3ppm but id like to see some actual tourney results (they might be ok at 4ppm if a bit underwhelming)... they are pretty weak and comparable to pink horrors, termagaunts, and other shooty horde units. (not really grots who are more assault oriented and are poor at it)

The reason you are doing better vs plasma scions is plasma scions are OVERKILL vs basic choppa boyz. I find only a KFF helps boys durability enough to allow a 30 unit strong boy blob to survive with enough models to retain their greentide buff and wreck face in combat. I find ghaz is a force multiplier with boy heavy lists. His ability is statistically better then banner nob and works on multiple units compared to the weirdboys single unit and deniable power.
Im not looking for deffkoptas to survive beyond their turn 1 drop of bombs. They are there to harass and take pop shots while grabbing objectives after they deliver their load.

Boys don't even need a KFF agaist scions. 8 rapid fire, 5.3 hits, 3.5 dead boys woo-hoo they just killed 15 ppints of boys.

Overloading the plasma will wound on a 2+ but kill 16 point scions shooting 6 point boys.

Scion command squads are an OP unit in the meta, but terrible against boys.

That being said a KFF is needed when conscripts FRFSRF 200 shots at typical ork BS. Orks are going to be the last players to ever underestimate a bucket of dice hitting on a 5+.

Zhardsnark is exactly what I hoped for
He is a beast in combat with 5x str12 ap-4 d3 damage. Hits on a 2+ without the silly klaw neg to hit modifier and it does an additional mortal wound on a 6.
He can advance a full 6 on his bike and waagh for all orks.

The big trakk is awesome a cheaper battlewagon that can take better weapons the supa skrocha is amazing 4d3 auto hitting str6 ap-2 d1 24in range flamer, the supa cannon is ok 2d6 str8 ap-2 d3 but takes all transport space...now I just need to play w costs.

Reinforced ram on killtank is cool and the main weapons are useful. Again depends on cost.

The kustom stompa adds a lot more offense with all the weapons I have t costed it out.

I don't get buzzgrob since he is a basic big Mek w big choppa and 2 grots I guess he is a bit more durable. It states in his rules he can take a kff but then Has no option to take it.

And the meka dread has no cost option for the mega charga or kff

Chinork is cool a transport that drops more big bombs and can take rattler guns...


And wtf is the mega dread someone email forgeworld...

Buzzgob is a mess. Has the KFF issue you mentioned. Shoots at 4+ but can only take a slugga.

The forgot the mega dread
Don't sell a rattler arm but sell a killsaw arm and killkannon arm
The meka dread has no cost for meka charga or kff. Is it free choice? Because 256 for a meka w kff rattler and rippa klaw is fine by me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnU wrote:
Buzzgob is a mess. Has the KFF issue you mentioned. Shoots at 4+ but can only take a slugga.

I'd say buzzgrob is useless unless he can take a kff. I was hoping he be better at repairs or something.

How are Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks/Killtank?

I'm hoping we have some decent vehicle-tanks in FW.

fe40k wrote:
How are Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks/Killtank?

I'm hoping we have some decent vehicle-tanks in FW.

Kill Tank seems pretty good. It's got a 4+ BS and a 3+ WS with 8 attacks at full health. It's got a decent number of wounds, a 4+ save and grot riggers which heal a wound on a 6+ at the end of each turn.

It can do bonus mortal wounds on the charge, but unfortunately it can't fall back and still do things like some super heavies.

It can hold up to ten passengers, and they can shoot but only hit on a 6+. Maybe it will be a good platform for Burna Boyz or Kombi-Skorcha Nobz/MANz?

It's about 350 points with all the wargear.

(No Kill Krusha though.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flakka Gunz only being Assault 4 seems pretty weird.

.

Bigdoza wrote:
I may also be biased because i hate the pile of AoBR deffkoptas I have.

can I have them?

gungo wrote:
Zhardsnark is exactly what I hoped for
He is a beast in combat with 5x str12 ap-4 d3 damage. Hits on a 2+ without the silly klaw neg to hit modifier and it does an additional mortal wound on a 6.
He can advance a full 6 on his bike and waagh for all orks.

The big trakk is awesome a cheaper battlewagon that can take better weapons the supa skrocha is amazing 4d3 auto hitting str6 ap-2 d1 24in range flamer, the supa cannon is ok 2d6 str8 ap-2 d3 but takes all transport space...now I just need to play w costs.

Reinforced ram on killtank is cool and the main weapons are useful. Again depends on cost.

The kustom stompa adds a lot more offense with all the weapons I have t costed it out.

I don't get buzzgrob since he is a basic big Mek w big choppa and 2 grots I guess he is a bit more durable. It states in his rules he can take a kff but then Has no option to take it.

And the meka dread has no cost option for the mega charga or kff

Chinork is cool a transport that drops more big bombs and can take rattler guns...


And wtf is the mega dread someone email forgeworld...

Does Zhadsnark have any special rules that effect bikes? He hard carried my ork armies in 7th.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Does Zhadsnark have any special rules that effect bikes? He hard carried my ork armies in 7th.

Not that I can see.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Does Zhadsnark have any special rules that effect bikes? He hard carried my ork armies in 7th.

Not that I can see.

So he is just a bit killer biker boss. Well if the points line up then alright thats awesome. I was hoping he could give Bikes advance and charge or something wicked like that.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Does Zhadsnark have any special rules that effect bikes? He hard carried my ork armies in 7th.

Not that I can see.

So he is just a bit killer biker boss. Well if the points line up then alright thats awesome. I was hoping he could give Bikes advance and charge or something wicked like that.

Well he does give bikes advance and charge because he's a evil sun warboss w waagh.
His points are cheap 110
T6 and 8wounds makes him a mini monstrous creature
He has no real weapons other then that sweet kustom painklaw
I'd say in a bike list he's still your best warboss
His only reason unique rule is he moves 15 and can advance a full 6 and charge for some nice coverage on the klaw.

Zhad's Waaagh only affects infantry, but he's still solid for the points (add two big shootas to his base cost). His Klaw is a little better and he has an extra attack, but he doesn't have an attack squig.

If I wanted to use zhads ability that only effects evil sunz, couldnt I just take a squad of boyz and call THEM evil sunz but the REST of my army could be..say..goffs?

Yes, but he'd only be able to use Breakin' Heads on that squad of Evil Sunz boyz. His Waaagh has no clan restrictions.

The fact his waaagh doesn't work on bikes seems Odd but no waagh work on bikes.
Otherwise he is a great bikeboss Even at 122pts. The +1 atk warlord trait just makes him better to with 6 atks.

A warboss on bike w Pk is 111
Zhardsnark is 122
He's just better for the points

To be fair the only 2 models I like in this book is zhardsnark and the meka dread with rattler gun and kff for 256pts.
The kustom stompa is better then the regular stompa and that's only because the 50pt belly gun is awesome.....but it's still not competitive.

I sent an email to forgeworld asking about the mega dread and his arms which are all still sold on thier site but have no rules (however the rattler gun is not sold and has rules... wtf)

Waaagh probably doesn't work on bike because of their speed. 14 +D6+ 2D6 is a very long charge range. Average is going to be around 24"