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 JimOnMars wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 davou wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Orkz move 5in but Imperial Guard move 6?

The fluff says orks on foot are lumbering and slow. That's why they take trukks and buggies.

We're lucky it's not 4.

The Fluff also has Orkz being faster then IG in every way imaginable. So I mean, why give Orkz who are roughly the same size as a Space Marine (2 meters + ) and have them run slower then regular humans who are on average >6

Because move isn't the only measure of speed? Orks are super quick on the table, its just represented by rules shenanigans, rather than a bland block in their stats.

I been fielding a block that contains 12 stormboys, 12 boys with a nob and a trukk.

Deploy the stormboys in the truck. Deploy the boys behind the trukk.

t1 get the stormoboys out 3 inches, then move them their 12, get the boys inside, the trukk, the move the trukk its 12.

If you took orks shenanigans away and just made them fast in the move stat, whats to differentiate them from tyranids? Also what fluff? I've not seen orks represented as being speedy in any fluff. They're mushroom gorillas, all out of proportioned. Tough as nails yes, but not particularly speedy.

Well Davou then you are cheating because Stormboyz count as 2 models, so you can only get 6 in a Trukk. And I read Black library all the time and across the board they are almost as fast if not as fast as Space Marines.

This is false.

Not a single part of that is false. If you are going to claim as such please prove it

 JohnU wrote:
I know Davou isn't a cheater, but Stormboyz have the Jump Pack keyword and Trukks count guys with that keyword as 2 models for transport capacity so that wouldn't work as described.

Try 9 Stormboyz with Zaggy in a Battlewagon for the 3" T1 hop though. Just have an alternative unit for the wagon in case enemy deployment doesn't favor a T1 charge.

wow, i was wrong. Sorry, and good to know.

So I got another great game of 8th in today with my Orks. I tried out Zhadsnark, Grotsnik, The Kill Tank and a mega dread alongside weirdboyz in addition to a standard boy heavy army.

1. Zhadsnark is great for his points. He is on the cheaper side and dead killy. For me he is an auto include Warboss. He is just so good for his points.

2. Grotsnik continues to impress. He is very cheap and very effective. His bubble is not that impressive, but when he is giving 60+ boyz a 6+++ on top of healing characters he really pays for himself quickly. He is also a respectable melee combatant and surprisingly tanky. He is an auto include for me. Amazing synergy with weirddboyz.

3. Weirdboyz are amazing. They are responsible for so much work it aint even funny. For their 62 points they always pay for themselves. Their ability to gain +1 per 10 boyz in a boy heavy army means they have a VERY high rate of rolling 11 or higher for smite meaning they are pumping out a lot of d6 mortal wounds. The boyz they stand with are able to cut through chaff easy enough and the weirdboyz can really ruin the day of expensive units.

They also bring utility in Da Jump if you really need some unit to get somewhere. They have amazing synergy with painboyz (Especially grotsnik) because when they perils (And they will a LOT) he gives them a 6+++ against those wounds and can reliably enough heal them for the wounds they suffer meaning while the weirdboyz pop their brains shooting out mind bullets the painboyz can ram them back into place. I take at least two of them. I love them so much.

3. The Kill tank I ran pretty basic with just the bursta cannon and twin big shoota. It was a bit pricey at around 260 points or so but it is a respectable shooty unit with 2d6 s10 ap4 2 damage shots and pretty alright in melee with 9 attacks on 3s granted they are only S user (Which is 8) and ap - dmg 1. However if they charge they deal d3 mortal wounds on a 2+. Its 24 wounds with t8 and while it only has a 4+ armor its still pretty tanky for its points and pretty killy. I liked it a lot for what I paid for it points wise. Oh and its BS 4+!!! I did not use it to transport any models, but it would do a pretty good job at that if called to.

4. The Meka dread found a place in my heart because of the fact that it is a cheaper and in my opinion more cost effective than a Morkanaut. Its got pretty good shooting with its bs4 and is pretty killy in melee. It worked very well with other vehicles providing a beefy aura of a 5++ invuln as well as pulled its weight in melee. The 4+++ 5+++ 6+++ is pretty neat, but it will save you like 1 wound on average so nothing too crazy. It was a reliable unit that performed well and brings a lot to the army for its points.

So theres a few of my thoughts on those units and what they offer. Overall I am very happy with all of them and I look forward to using them again. I am thinking the meka dread will find a place alongside other vehicles becuase of that beefy 5+++ aura that they really benefit from. I might also look into a mek or two if I run more vehicle heavy in the future.

Has anyone else tried out these units and have any opinions to share? Id love to talk more about them.

Have you tried the mega charga on your Meka dread yet? The dread is a solid KFF platform but I'm interested because this is a unique ability for us, basically our version of a shunting dreadknight.

ah, well so they do. Whatever, not hard to drop them down to 6 stormboys.

I've been reading the beast series exclusively for about 2 months now, and not once does it play the orks as a quick threat apart from wehn they are on bikes or something like that.

My point stands, orks are fast... They just doing it in orky ways rather than outright. m5 is a small aspect of it; and with their shenanigans intact they are well faster than guard and marines.

 JohnU wrote:
Have you tried the mega charga on your Meka dread yet? The dread is a solid KFF platform but I'm interested because this is a unique ability for us, basically our version of a shunting dreadknight.

I have not used it for that, but I could see it seeing use for sure. I really like the KFF however just because its on a post efficient model with a good sized model for a lot of beefy.

It's a funny character spam list but it might actually do well since it has 5 reliable powerklaws (if you include zagstrukk) and 7 big choppa.
Battalion detach-
Zhardsnark 122
Buzzgrob 75 (in going with kff is included in his cost)
30 choppa boys 189 (nob w big choppa)
30 choppa boys 189 (nob w big choppa)
30 shoota boys 180
Mad doc grotsnik 74
Mekadread 269 (rattler/kff/rokkit bomb rack)
10 tankbustas and 2 bomb squigs 190
Trukk rokkit and wrecking ball 91 (tankbustas transport)

Supreme command
Ghazskull 215
Weirdboy 62 (da jump)
Weirdboy 62 (warpath)

Outrider detachment
Boss zagstrukk 88
5 Stormboy (nob w big choppa) 49
5 stormboy (nob w big choppa) 49
5 stormboy (nob w big choppa) 49
5 stormboy (nob w big choppa) 49

2002 points, 9 command points and 131 models

Idea is simple buzzgrob in center surrounded by 2 choppa squads w ghaz and Maddoc directly in front of the buzzgrob.
Two weird boyz warpath and dajump the shoota boys into 9 in range. They shoota boys shoot and charge into whatever they want and zhardsnark flys forward to support them. Wierdboys charge forward w the blob for smite spam.

20 fearless stormboys w big choppas and zagstrukk moving forward w the meka dread keeping that 5+ invul as long as possible until they charge into whatever flyer is the issue using cover as necessary to get there.

The tankbustas try to keep a tire into whatever kff they need and buzzgrob can repair the meka dead or trukk as needed.

grnsknz wrote:

- The battlewagon was popped up in turn 1 by all the lascannons on the field. 4+ save is useless against them, and I don't see marine armies on the table with fewer than 6-8 lascannons.

Maybe I just found my counter army, but on local tournaments I expect even more shooty opponents like Tau or Eldar. I don't see boyz surviving if starting second.

Thanks for your report.

I havent played since 5th but one of the tactics back in those days was to either go all out on AV or none at all. I think it can still apply in 8th even with the changes to how vehicles work.

If you take a small amount of vehicles then they are going to be quickly destroyed by the combined fire of everything your enemy can deal out, but by running duplicates or many vehicles (probably classed as T6 or greater these days) then either the opponent concentrates his fire and destroys individual vehicles or possible the vehicles will block LOS to other vehicles so that the opponents fire is split on multiple vehicles possibly failing to destroy any (in that turn)

Having that multiple vehicle redundancy might be the only way to overcome the amount of firepower that many armies will bring.

The alternative is to go no vehicles what so ever so those heavy weapons are basically wasted killing boys. Maybe running 200+ boys (with movement trays) with buffs will be the optimal Ork list, time will tell

Who prefers Power Klaws over Big Choppas for Nobz in Boyz squads?

I'm still taking pk. They're not as good as before but they add this tiny bit of choppiness vs tougher stuff that we really lack. They're somewhat overpriced but we got to take them anywayz. Otherwise you'll never be able to down a knight - especially if you're focusing on footsloggas.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Who prefers Power Klaws over Big Choppas for Nobz in Boyz squads?

I do. But if I haven't the points spared even the big choppa is a fair option. In large squads we have options to get more attacks and with the banner those pks also hit on 3s, that's why I'd always choose pks over big choppas for nobz that lead boyz squads.

What I can't really see is a unit of nobz with some Pks, I only run them with big choppas. A nob with pk is 42 points, with a little bit more we can field meganobz getting +3 S4 shots, a 2+ save and an additional wound, while the nobz with pk in a boyz squad only cost 31 points. A pk in a boyz squad is also hard to kill since we can choose the casualties.

In boyzx30 I think you want a klaw, trukk boyz maybe should only have a big choppa.

I wouldn't upgrade one nob in a nob squad to klaw until maybe every nob had a big choppa and I thought I needed more choppa

 Frozocrone wrote:
Who prefers Power Klaws over Big Choppas for Nobz in Boyz squads?

I don't. For almost a third of the cost the BC is generally "good enough." Boyz aren't good against hard targets and the klaw doesn't really change that and for stuff like Nobz squads I take killsaws instead. The only thing I'm putting a PK on anymore is if I take a 2nd biker boss after Zhad or on occasions where I run Zaggy with a squad of Stormboyz. The d3 damage has been a big turnoff, especially at 25 points.

Has anyone tried larger squads of kommandos out? I was thinking of running 3 full sized squads in combination with a waphead and Boyz on foot. Dropping 30 Boyz and 45 kommandos 9 inches away in a turn might allow enough to survive to be productive.

I dropped 10 kommandos, nob with big choppa and 2 burnas in a game against dark eldar. They failed the charge, even with a re-roll and got shredded by a ten man squad of warriors (dark eldar basic troops). So be careful. If you drop in cover and try to take adabantage of their sneakiness..remember your charge range is reduced by two inches meaning you need an 11 charge distance not 9. Can be risky.

On the nob in boyz unit topic.. I'm warming to the idea of big choppas. Simply because power klaws are not the Swiss Army knife, kill everything they used to be. Without a WAAAAGGHH! banner around they hit only half time with either 3 or 4 attacks (depending on green tide). And meq still get a save (6+ but still). And they are 25 points. I like to run 4 blobs in 2k so that's 100 points! More then half the cost an entire squad of 30 boyz. Compared to the relatively cheap 'uge choppa which are still high str, some rend and are good against multi wound characters because of base 2 damage. Ever roll a 1 on the ok damage and think to yourself the bug choppa would have done more and cost 150% less points..I do all the time. It sucks because I have converted the "new nobs" (aobr as opposed to third edition nobs. Don't look at me like that I have been playing orks a long time) to power klaws. And regular nobs with power klaws...might as well take manz.

From the FAQ:

Q. The Ork Battlewagon’s Mobile Fortress ability says the Battlewagon ‘ignores the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons’. Its Open-topped ability says that ‘restrictions and modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers’. Does that mean that a unit embarked also ignores the penalty for firing Heavy weapons if the battlewagon has moved? A. No.

Bummer.

got a link to that faq?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

Since my post have been obliterated by a (very orkish) discussion about why the orks are slower than IG, I would like to reshape my questions in a simpler way:

1: Why would anyone take 6 deffkopta over 12 bikes med mek and KFF, since it is way less W, more uncertain A and Mortal Wounds? I did some mathammer and even if, yes bikes have been nerfed, they are still a highly mobile objective grabber, dakka provider and warlord safe bus.
2: Is it really that better a mega dread than a Gorkanaut? For the same price you can get a Meka and 5 lootas,approx, and you would have a slightly better firepower, a couple of W more but a lesser edge vs vehicles since the 'naut is 16 S and the Meka only 14

lame, they didnt adress there ere'we go thing

While I'm not a huge fan. Of the clarifications, I do enjoy the fact they're coming out so soon.

Hopefully Ere We Go (one dice or both) and Power Klaws get updated (PK more of a wish to become a flat 3 damage)

What Ere' we go thing?

Anyone else getting tired of GW slapping us in the face with new rules/codexs/units/clarifications?

Would it really be that bad if Mobile Fortress extended to occupants? I mean realistically there is no reason to even give the Mobile Fortress rule to a BW unless its for the occupants because only a moron is going to take any heavy weapons on it.

So, if you really want to abuse the system and get a bunch of free command points and discounted nobs, utilise the understrength units rule:
Troops: 1 boy nob, 1 grot - 9 pts for 2 troop slots
Elites: 1 kommando nob, 1 tankbusta nob, 1 burna - 39 pts for 3 slot fillers
Fast attack: 1 warbiker nob, 1 stormboy nob - 36 pts for 2 slot fillers
Heavy support: 1 grot gunner from big gun squad, 1 grot gunner from mek gun squad, 1 loota - 21 pts for 3 slot fillers

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else getting tired of GW slapping us in the face with new rules/codexs/units/clarifications?

no man, you've been tired of everything loud enough for all of us put together

 koooaei wrote:
So, if you really want to abuse the system and get a bunch of free command points and discounted nobs, utilise the understrength units rule:
Troops: 1 boy nob, 1 grot - 9 pts for 2 troop slots
Elites: 1 kommando nob, 1 tankbusta nob, 1 burna - 39 pts for 3 slot fillers
Fast attack: 1 warbiker nob, 1 stormboy nob - 36 pts for 2 slot fillers
Heavy support: 1 grot gunner from big gun squad, 1 grot gunner from mek gun squad, 1 loota - 21 pts for 3 slot fillers

Only problem is everyone else can do this as well so its better to just make an agreement not to do that since it will just cause confusion and a waste of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else getting tired of GW slapping us in the face with new rules/codexs/units/clarifications?

no man, you've been tired of everything loud enough for all of us put together

Well Davou, how about that ITC tournament or the list of victories in our forums? Still not convinced yet? We got another edition of under powered, over costed units and everyone else getting buffed to hell and back. The funniest part of this is that the Ork boy is basically our powerhouse unit right now and it got nerfed between 7th and 8th LOL.

I'll gladly admit I was wrong if more and more ITC results come in and Orkz do decent but at the moment that isn't the case.

Ow, battlewagon mobile fortress does not affect passengers per FAQ.

-1 to hit on Heavy weapons if it moves, yuck!

Bigdoza wrote:
Ow, battlewagon mobile fortress does not affect passengers per FAQ.

-1 to hit on Heavy weapons if it moves, yuck!

And the aura for Badrukka Doesn't extend to them while embarked so there is literally no reason to take flash gitz for another edition. Unless you want to throw away points that is.

Why would you want to take them for the insane amount of points they cost even if they could be bs4+ anywayz? They're kinda like killa kans. Look fun on paper but than you field them vs something point-efficient and leave the cool minis on the shelf.

I'm not sure I fully understand the Mek Guns and Big Guns errata. Is it saying 1 Big Gun and 2 Krew are 2 units? and if so what happens when you add another Big gun and another Krew? is that now 4 units?