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It depends on if you really want to play orks. As value for your money it is probably worth it, but only if you want orks.

Well Orks are kinda fun I guess. My Fantasy (not age of sigmar) army is Orcs and Goblins.. so I am used to random events, crazy miniatures and stuff.

If you can buy FW at 50% off BUY IT

Hell if you don't want it, I'll buy it from him!

 koooaei wrote:

Damage per point is not an effective measure here cause you can't have more than one nob in boy squads. It's also impossible to calculate the dpp (damage per point) of a mass of troops cause you can't guarantee everything is going to strike while you're still paying full points for every member of the squad. So, force concentration is a thing.

I was never attempting to calculate the output of an entire Boyz unit, just the Nob after one round of combat. DPP is just another statistic to judge effectiveness of wargear options. If we picked everything based on damage alone, we would often be paying for the most expensive wargear! What matters is how much bang you're getting for your buck.

Breng77 wrote:
I would likely give BC to the Boyz and Stormboyz nobz and drop 1 Kommando Squad (5*9 = 45 points which is equal to a single bare bone Kommando squad). I don't think the difference between 7 and 8 Kommando squads is huge, You still would have 11 "reserve" units to force your opponent to reveal their deployment, You still have all your large squads. I don't see the value in putting BCs on your Kommando squads as they are too fragile for the investment.

That is a very good suggestion, and I think i'll do that.

SemperMortis wrote:


That is a very good suggestion, and I think i'll do that.

You've probably already thought of this, but be sure to check how many units you're putting in reinforcements vs. on the table. With all those Kommandos and Deffkoptas in reinforcements I'm not sure your list would be legal in Matched Play.

Glad to see semper warming up to idea of kittin out his nobs a bit. List looks wicked, I think the versatility willl help a lot.

I'm sure semper has thought about how many he's allowed to put in rese be vs on table. I think he has 10-11 drops on field, so not much is restrained from going in reserve.

Look forward to hearing your list goes.


I've been toying around with some low model count easy to do movement phase lists centered around:

Ghazzy
Weird boy
KFF mek on bike
Banner nob
BW full of bustas
BW full of 17-20 boys
BW with 2 squads 10 boys
BW full of nobs or flash gits

Leaving room for characters to ride with boys, and if their ride blows up, have 3 spots open in busta wagon and one in flash git or nob wagon to let characters pop in there.

The KFF should be able to cover all the wagons if I run them tight. I had considered dropping a wagon, and find points to include a garg squig for the bustas to ride in instead. Wouldn't mind adding zharsanark either. Currently it's 5 drops and 7 CP total (3 base 3 battalion 1 spearhead)

Afraid it still won't "cut the mustard" in tourney play.

skyfi wrote:

Spoiler:

Glad to see semper warming up to idea of kittin out his nobs a bit. List looks wicked, I think the versatility willl help a lot.

I'm sure semper has thought about how many he's allowed to put in rese be vs on table. I think he has 10-11 drops on field, so not much is restrained from going in reserve.

Look forward to hearing your list goes.

I've been toying around with some low model count easy to do movement phase lists centered around:

Ghazzy
Weird boy
KFF mek on bike
Banner nob
BW full of bustas
BW full of 17-20 boys
BW with 2 squads 10 boys
BW full of nobs or flash gits

Leaving room for characters to ride with boys, and if their ride blows up, have 3 spots open in busta wagon and one in flash git or nob wagon to let characters pop in there.

The KFF should be able to cover all the wagons if I run them tight. I had considered dropping a wagon, and find points to include a garg squig for the bustas to ride in instead. Wouldn't mind adding zharsanark either. Currently it's 5 drops and 7 CP total (3 base 3 battalion 1 spearhead)

Afraid it still won't "cut the mustard" in tourney play.

I encourage you to MSU and mix your units across your Battlewagonz so that no tactical genius can handicap the mobility of one strategic facet in your army by just destroying one battlewagon. So, instead of running 15 Bustas in a wagon, run ten boyz, five bustas, five Nobz in a wagon and do this identically over the whole brigade of battlewagonz. This way, no matter which wagon is destroyed first, you won't lack for one type of firepower.

 Rismonite wrote:

skyfi wrote:

Spoiler:

Glad to see semper warming up to idea of kittin out his nobs a bit. List looks wicked, I think the versatility willl help a lot.

I'm sure semper has thought about how many he's allowed to put in rese be vs on table. I think he has 10-11 drops on field, so not much is restrained from going in reserve.

Look forward to hearing your list goes.

I've been toying around with some low model count easy to do movement phase lists centered around:

Ghazzy
Weird boy
KFF mek on bike
Banner nob
BW full of bustas
BW full of 17-20 boys
BW with 2 squads 10 boys
BW full of nobs or flash gits

Leaving room for characters to ride with boys, and if their ride blows up, have 3 spots open in busta wagon and one in flash git or nob wagon to let characters pop in there.

The KFF should be able to cover all the wagons if I run them tight. I had considered dropping a wagon, and find points to include a garg squig for the bustas to ride in instead. Wouldn't mind adding zharsanark either. Currently it's 5 drops and 7 CP total (3 base 3 battalion 1 spearhead)

Afraid it still won't "cut the mustard" in tourney play.

I encourage you to MSU and mix your units across your Battlewagonz so that no tactical genius can handicap the mobility of one strategic facet in your army by just destroying one battlewagon. So, instead of running 15 Bustas in a wagon, run ten boyz, five bustas, five Nobz in a wagon and do this identically over the whole brigade of battlewagonz. This way, no matter which wagon is destroyed first, you won't lack for one type of firepower.

I had considered doing just exactly that. I was worried however that losing t8 on 2-3 wagons (using hard cases for all wagons aside from the busta wagon, if I include gits over nobs than their wagon will also be open topped.

I figure for target saturation (a joke with 5 models on table) it may be better to have two t8 vehicles at minimum. If I split bustas into smaller units than it's 10 bustas to get 4 squig bombs? Leaving only 6 spots in transport. I suppose I could run 5 busts + 2 squigs + 10 boys and chars or more boys in 2 wagons. Just lose the t8 protection for boys. Hmm.

I like the idea of bustas + gits in same wagon but thinking gits just aren't that competitive. Feel like 35-40 boys would do better at anti infantry point doe point

You've probably already thought of this, but be sure to check how many units you're putting in reinforcements vs. on the table. With all those Kommandos and Deffkoptas in reinforcements I'm not sure your list would be legal in Matched Play.

That is a good point, with the change I suggested he has 11 potential reserve units, and 10 Always on table units (4 HQ, 3 Boyz, 2 Storm boyz, Mad Dok.) So right now 1 unit of those reserves would need to start on the table for a legal deployment (at least half must be on the table) assuming it is half rounding up (not certain of this I would need to check the FAQ) like modifiers. Given that I might consider dropping another Kommando Squad. Adding up the points in your original list I come up to 1984.

Dropping 2 Kommando squads and buying 5 big Choppas brings you to 1939. So 62 points under.

Your options from what I see would be

1.) Make 5 of your remaining Kommando Squads 6 orks, and add 1 storm boy to each squad (or add 5 storm boyz and 2 Kommandos to the list, or some combination)
2.) Add a single KMK
3.)Add 20 Grots as back field objective holders/useless early drops.
4.) Keep the extra Kommando squad as a back field objective sitting unit, adding 2 storm boyz.

SemperMortis wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Also in defense of the BC, as you say it can pack more punch in any fixed sized unit (from 5 to 30) and more into limited space (trukk, BW or as constrained by terrain.)

Plus, it magnifies the effect of Green Tide, Warpath and Ghaz's and Wagggh Banner Nob's buffs.

So I changed my mind again...if you think these apply, then the BC is likely worth it's 9 points.

LOL except in my list where it is competing against a free weapon. the Calculations are wrong because I am taking a 6pt boyz model and for free am turning it into a Nob. So the 6 is taken regardless, what you are really comparing is a Zero Point Choppa to a 9pt Big Choppa and that is why in my specific list it isn't worth taking. Again, I am using Soviet era tactics, quantity is its own quality

You are still missing the point. In a vacuum the choppa is more efficient pontswise. However in actual games the big choppa is the last model removed and thus its benefits are compounded because it's available longer. The choppas are good but still mostly there as ablative wounds because the nob should always be the last model removed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RoninXiC wrote:
Hey guys. I have a "different" kind of question.

A good friend of mine is trying to get rid of his 40k Orks army. Thing is, he has most of the Forgeworld tanks like the Kill Bursta, kill blasta, kill krusha, the old Battle Fortress and some of the "improved" Trukks and stuff.

I do love the models and since they're super expensive and some aren't even available anymore it gives me quite the tingle in the fingers.

I took a look into the Xenos 2 Index and the Forgeworld Xenos Codex but I have zero Idea about Orks in 40k. I do have a Adeptus Sororitas army but that's it.

Are those things "worth it"? I mean, there are no rules for the Battle Fortress, but I guess I could run it as a (giant) Squiggoth?

Any advise if I should get them? At least 50% off or cheaper he told me.

The killkrusha is the only model without rules the battle fortress according to forgeworld will have a dataslate online soon.

gungo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Also in defense of the BC, as you say it can pack more punch in any fixed sized unit (from 5 to 30) and more into limited space (trukk, BW or as constrained by terrain.)

Plus, it magnifies the effect of Green Tide, Warpath and Ghaz's and Wagggh Banner Nob's buffs.

So I changed my mind again...if you think these apply, then the BC is likely worth it's 9 points.

LOL except in my list where it is competing against a free weapon. the Calculations are wrong because I am taking a 6pt boyz model and for free am turning it into a Nob. So the 6 is taken regardless, what you are really comparing is a Zero Point Choppa to a 9pt Big Choppa and that is why in my specific list it isn't worth taking. Again, I am using Soviet era tactics, quantity is its own quality

You are still missing the point. In a vacuum the choppa is more efficient pontswise. However in actual games the big choppa is the last model removed and thus its benefits are compounded because it's available longer. The choppas are but still bit mostly there as ablative wounds because the nob should always be the lady model removed.

Yeah I got that Gungo, but in my meta, my opponents are rather good at removing models and keep in mind for Orkz to suffer catastrophic leadership issues it doesn't take that much. If you kill 15 boyz in a 30 boyz mob you are basically losing D6 boyz unless you happen to be near Ghaz or another 30 blob. So with that in mind my opponents now just focus fire down one blob at a time and laugh when they wipe themselves out due to leadership. But in general I get what you are saying. I am just trying to maximize troop counts and not give my opponent a better reason to ensure a boyz unit gets wiped out. I have won games by lone nobz holding an objective long after their unit was wiped

Also, leaving a pile of grots on the table might be a good idea. I'll have to look into that.

Spoiler:

skyfi wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

skyfi wrote:
Glad to see semper warming up to idea of kittin out his nobs a bit. List looks wicked, I think the versatility willl help a lot.

I'm sure semper has thought about how many he's allowed to put in rese be vs on table. I think he has 10-11 drops on field, so not much is restrained from going in reserve.

Look forward to hearing your list goes.


I've been toying around with some low model count easy to do movement phase lists centered around:

Ghazzy
Weird boy
KFF mek on bike
Banner nob
BW full of bustas
BW full of 17-20 boys
BW with 2 squads 10 boys
BW full of nobs or flash gits

Leaving room for characters to ride with boys, and if their ride blows up, have 3 spots open in busta wagon and one in flash git or nob wagon to let characters pop in there.

The KFF should be able to cover all the wagons if I run them tight. I had considered dropping a wagon, and find points to include a garg squig for the bustas to ride in instead. Wouldn't mind adding zharsanark either. Currently it's 5 drops and 7 CP total (3 base 3 battalion 1 spearhead)

Afraid it still won't "cut the mustard" in tourney play.

I encourage you to MSU and mix your units across your Battlewagonz so that no tactical genius can handicap the mobility of one strategic facet in your army by just destroying one battlewagon. So, instead of running 15 Bustas in a wagon, run ten boyz, five bustas, five Nobz in a wagon and do this identically over the whole brigade of battlewagonz. This way, no matter which wagon is destroyed first, you won't lack for one type of firepower.

I had considered doing just exactly that. I was worried however that losing t8 on 2-3 wagons (using hard cases for all wagons aside from the busta wagon, if I include gits over nobs than their wagon will also be open topped.

I figure for target saturation (a joke with 5 models on table) it may be better to have two t8 vehicles at minimum. If I split bustas into smaller units than it's 10 bustas to get 4 squig bombs? Leaving only 6 spots in transport. I suppose I could run 5 busts + 2 squigs + 10 boys and chars or more boys in 2 wagons. Just lose the t8 protection for boys. Hmm.

I like the idea of bustas + gits in same wagon but thinking gits just aren't that competitive. Feel like 35-40 boys would do better at anti infantry point doe point

Maybe I am taking too many boys. Just aiming to make use of ghaz +1a and use them as anti infantry. afraid they couldn't cross board on foot. Trying to minimize efficacy of small arms fire and force it to fire against a t7/8 target. The conventional wisdom seems to be "boys over everything else" or "boys do it better"

maybe mobilized shooty lists aren't going to be that competitive for us, which is why I have tried to not stick to just shooting units. Afraid with all the modifiers of -1 I'll find myself in situations where I can't hit stuff except on a 7+.

I was hoping with 30 boys, ghaz and possibly nobs, wfor old ne enough of a pushy melee threat that they (and their t8 rides) would take the lion share of enemy fire in hopes of blowing wagons up or slowing them down, hopefully leaving the t7 wagons unmolested to shoot from. Ard case wagons take dedd rollas as well to help, while I am torn about spending points on rollas for gunship style wagons.

Thanks for the input. Will have to do some thinking before my game tomorrow

 Rismonite wrote:

Spoiler:

skyfi wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

skyfi wrote:
Glad to see semper warming up to idea of kittin out his nobs a bit. List looks wicked, I think the versatility willl help a lot.

I'm sure semper has thought about how many he's allowed to put in rese be vs on table. I think he has 10-11 drops on field, so not much is restrained from going in reserve.

Look forward to hearing your list goes.


I've been toying around with some low model count easy to do movement phase lists centered around:

Ghazzy
Weird boy
KFF mek on bike
Banner nob
BW full of bustas
BW full of 17-20 boys
BW with 2 squads 10 boys
BW full of nobs or flash gits

Leaving room for characters to ride with boys, and if their ride blows up, have 3 spots open in busta wagon and one in flash git or nob wagon to let characters pop in there.

The KFF should be able to cover all the wagons if I run them tight. I had considered dropping a wagon, and find points to include a garg squig for the bustas to ride in instead. Wouldn't mind adding zharsanark either. Currently it's 5 drops and 7 CP total (3 base 3 battalion 1 spearhead)

Afraid it still won't "cut the mustard" in tourney play.

I encourage you to MSU and mix your units across your Battlewagonz so that no tactical genius can handicap the mobility of one strategic facet in your army by just destroying one battlewagon. So, instead of running 15 Bustas in a wagon, run ten boyz, five bustas, five Nobz in a wagon and do this identically over the whole brigade of battlewagonz. This way, no matter which wagon is destroyed first, you won't lack for one type of firepower.

I had considered doing just exactly that. I was worried however that losing t8 on 2-3 wagons (using hard cases for all wagons aside from the busta wagon, if I include gits over nobs than their wagon will also be open topped.

I figure for target saturation (a joke with 5 models on table) it may be better to have two t8 vehicles at minimum. If I split bustas into smaller units than it's 10 bustas to get 4 squig bombs? Leaving only 6 spots in transport. I suppose I could run 5 busts + 2 squigs + 10 boys and chars or more boys in 2 wagons. Just lose the t8 protection for boys. Hmm.

I like the idea of bustas + gits in same wagon but thinking gits just aren't that competitive. Feel like 35-40 boys would do better at anti infantry point doe point

In a list limited by the occupancy space of battlewagonz I feel Flash gitz, Nobz, and others are more legitimate as passengers than boyz. 5 Flash Gitz, on the move, shoot MEQ as good as twenty shoota boyz and cost just ten points more. I would plan to fill battlewagonz 15 to 17 bodies, leaving space for a squig or two, and the stray character that needs a ride (like Ghaz) when someone pops their ride.

My problem with my wagon lists right now? T8 -> Deff Rolla on a wagon seems mandatory, making shooting assets a liability since they have to jump out. What I could forsee our own Lootas doing to a t7 Wagon makes me ill.

Still, open topped is almost unique to an ork army. I feel someone has to be having some success driving up to just two feet away and handing out small handfuls of Damage 3 rokkitz and large handfuls of -2AP lead. Once you add the cost of occupants to the Wagon you have something superior to a Land Raider in shootiness only just inferior in survivability. However, if I was going to shoot, I would have the whole army shoot.

I personally prefer to equip for melee, which means Ard case, Deff Rollas, tankhammers, skorcha, and powerklaws. Shooting is an afterthought for me. A mobile horde in half the footprint I feel does best at rolling right up to a valueable asset crippling that, then playing to objectives and I think melee does that better.

A battlewagon is already heavily over priced at 160pts before you add on passengers or weapons for the actual wagon. If you filled it with 5 Flash Gitz, 5 Tank Bustas and 5 Nobz you are looking at 465pts for a unit that puts out 5 Rokkitz, 15 Snazz Gun and 10 Shoota shots a turn, thats 5 S8 -2 shots, 15 S5 -2 shots and 10 S4 shots (if you equip the Wagon with rokkitz it goes up 48pts in price but gains 4 S8 shots). A Land Raider for 316pts puts out 14/28 S4 shots, 1 S8 -4 Shot, 12 S6 -1 Shots. And the Ork shooting is hitting on 5s and the Landraider is hitting on 3s. So for the Ork Vehicle, 1-2 S8 shots will hit, 5 S5 shots will hit and 3 S4 shots will hit, for the Land Raider, 10/20 S4 shots will hit, 1 S8 shot will likely hit, and 8 S6 shots will hit. And the Land Raider is significantly more durable with T8 and a 2+ save. Why The Wagon didn't get a 3+ save is beyond me. With Hardtop it should be a 2+ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nairul wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


That is a very good suggestion, and I think i'll do that.

You've probably already thought of this, but be sure to check how many units you're putting in reinforcements vs. on the table. With all those Kommandos and Deffkoptas in reinforcements I'm not sure your list would be legal in Matched Play.

I had forgotten about that rule, what I did was I took away 1 Kommando unit and gave BC's to Boyz and Stormboyz Nobz, then I moved 1 deff Kopta into another so I have 4 deff Koptas still just in 3 units instead of 4. This will inevitably draw more fire on them but so be it. Maybe i'll have them jink

Semper I feel like you merged two of my four thoughts a little unfairly to make my point look silly. Yes I said shoot better then a Land Raider, but no I didn't really mean with the mixed occupants. With those occupants in your example you have to look at the whole picture and not just the dakka in a vacuum.

I could say two battlewagonz with Ard Case cost the same as a Land Raider and would beat it just because they could assault the Land Raider repeatedly. Anywho, A Deff Rolla Battlewagon with 2x5 tankbustas, costs nearly the same, and could cause the Land Raider to take roughly (large variance) five damage a turn, then the wagon promptly tie it up in CC.

But I don't have an issue with shooting Land Raiders or something. I mentioned I build mine for t8 deff rolla and skimp on gunz I wouldn't begin to say shoot from them unless your army is all in on rokkitz, snazzgunz, and/or/maybe skorcha burna.

What is the best way to to run a mechanized force competitively ?

I play speed freaks, and have typically played a fully mobilized force of bikes, trukks, and wagons. Nob bikers
don't seem worth it, neither do manz inside a transport.

Trukks seem fragile in comparison. T6 10w (ramshackle is great though) and you get 2 barebones trucks for 164 transporting 24 vs t7 16w 20 transport for 161. The extra 4 wounds between two trucks is nice, as is the extra 4 transport capacity. They are harder to protect with KFF with increased footprint also, and squads of boys can't be very large. I don't care as much for the +1 for 20 boys as much as having one larger squad as a LD boost for smaller units nearby if needed. Trying to include 3 troop choices for the extra Cp

I don't intend to put any guns on the wagons, except with extra points maybe add a big shoota or 2 if points can't be used elsewhere. As you have said, they are overlcosted already. One caveat I would say, is that with a rolla, they are mighty fine close combat monsters with 8 S8 -2 attacks on a 2+. Absorbing overwatch and piling in to several units that most likely won't harm them at all, forcing fall backs is a nice boon also.

I definitely don't want to make them any more expensive than adding a rolla. I would really like to find a way to (somewhat) competitively (but I concede not the most competitive) run a full mech (and bikes as needed) list.

I just don't see myself painting (or wanting to move) 100+ boys a turn. I think that a speed freak army is not near as competitive as a green tide this edition, but I'd like to figure out how to make it best work.

I love the idea of gun boats zipping around dakka'ing everything down, but I don't think our shooting is accurate enough to make it work.

Have a few koptas and 5-6 nob bikers, can build some buggies, have 10 storm boys (they don't really fit the mechanized idea and provide something soft for small arms to focus fire down is my reason for not including them)
Have a couple of trukks but can scratch build some more.


I agree there isn't going to be a way to compete tit for tat in a shooting match with a LR, while being fully mechanized. The benefits of having the "mobile cover" of a transport is huge though, not to mention the added range the transport provides vs moving on foot. For comparisons vs a LR i def wouldn't include 10 boys (or 5 nobs unless they had kombi-rokkits and ammo runts which increase cost) in a open topped wagon though. They shooting they put out is negligible, unless lucky. Filling a wagon with just gits, bustas, lootas, or a mix seems better? The 316 for a LR isn't going to be outshot by orks when you factor in a 180 point transport (including rolla) but the wagon is going to be far more effective in close combat when it comes time for that.

I've considered running bustas x10 +2 squigs in a trukk along with 6 gits +6 runts in another. T6 though. Ugh. Would really like all the weight of fire s6 shooting to need 5s to wound. I think the gains of wounds and transport capacity by runnin 2 trukks over a wagon can be easily mitigated because of their lower toughness. That config clocks in at 540 points though for

10 s8 -2 3Dmg shots with 5+ to hit (reroll to hit vs vehicles)
2 s8 -2 d6 damage squigs hitting on a 2+ (One use only)
6 s5 5+ big shoota from trukks
18 s5 -2 shots hitting on a 4+ with rerolls to hit (5+ if they move)

If I put 10 bustas 2 squigs and 5 gits + 3 runts into a wagon with rolla it cuts cost to 517 (over 200 greater than LR) with no where near as probable damage with accuracy taken into account. Only caveat is the wagon would be good in melee when I can dedicate it to that, and camp bodies on obj when they jump out. A wagon could be kitted out to home 2 units of 5 gits + 5 runts also, making best use of msu to hold obj (especially since big guns never tire seems to be the only mission Where unit type matters. One wagon full of gits and a rolla is 490, not sure the cost increase vs a LR is justifiable


Just really not liking the damage output of mechanized shooty orks. Thinking orks may be pigeonholed into running close combat armies, combined forces of mechanized + foot troops, + static shooty units.

Reading a lot of talk about open-topped Battlewagons, but no love for Trukks.

First off, let's agree any mechanized list (or any competitive Ork list) is taking at least one Big Mek on Bike w/ KFF. It's honestly the best thing in our codex.

Standard Trukk w/ Rokkit Launcha becomes 88 Points for T6 10 Wounds 4+/5++ (Ramshackle)
Cheapest open-topped Wagon becomes 161 Points for T7 16 Wounds 4+/5++

So if you're looking for an open-topped transport for your Shootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz... the Trukk is roughly half the price of the Wagon. So you would expect its survivability to be half as well? Nope. T6 vs. T7 not a huge difference, 10 vs. 16 wounds is more-than-half. Ramshackle is a lifesaver.

On top of all that, running shooty units in Trukks means that your eggs are spread out among multiple baskets. When a Trukk gets popped you don't suffer a critical loss. When a Battlewagon gets popped say goodbye to a significant chunk of your dakka.

 Rismonite wrote:
Semper I feel like you merged two of my four thoughts a little unfairly to make my point look silly. Yes I said shoot better then a Land Raider, but no I didn't really mean with the mixed occupants. With those occupants in your example you have to look at the whole picture and not just the dakka in a vacuum.

I could say two battlewagonz with Ard Case cost the same as a Land Raider and would beat it just because they could assault the Land Raider repeatedly. Anywho, A Deff Rolla Battlewagon with 2x5 tankbustas, costs nearly the same, and could cause the Land Raider to take roughly (large variance) five damage a turn, then the wagon promptly tie it up in CC.

But I don't have an issue with shooting Land Raiders or something. I mentioned I build mine for t8 deff rolla and skimp on gunz I wouldn't begin to say shoot from them unless your army is all in on rokkitz, snazzgunz, and/or/maybe skorcha burna.

I apologize (sincerely) that wasn't my intent. I was just pointing out that Wagons are god awful and shooting from them is a waste of time/points. The way you currently run them is how I would run them if I chose to do so. My Meta has far to many S8+ -2/3 weapons for me to want to field a wagon unfortunately :( I am still floored that they didn't give the battlewagon at least a 3+ save, I mean hell, make Ard Top increase T and give +1 to saving throws.

Good points and input everyone. Thanks. Was thinking more about mobile shooty orks and went back to drawing board. This list is 1861 as is so room still. Just a different approach entirely to shooty orks. Couldn't help but include one supa kannon.

5 trukks, each with a shooty unit. One trukk has 2 squads of 6 lootas (3 heavy for each detachment). Also helps to drop some off here and there for objectives. Then one BW with 6 lootas and supa kannon. Two biker KFF Meks to make sure stuff is safe and can split into two forces.

Could easily swap out a trukk for a big trakk with guns also and have loota to spare

I'm thinking of running a Dakkajet with 6 supa shootas for a nice shooty unit that contributes starting turn 1 and helps take the heat off of my footsloggers. Anyone have luck using one?

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'm thinking of running a Dakkajet with 6 supa shootas for a nice shooty unit that contributes starting turn 1 and helps take the heat off of my footsloggers. Anyone have luck using one?

Hands down they're the best flyer we've got. You'll even see one or two taken in certain tournament lists. Obviously you want to pay for the extra two supa shootas. But don't bother taking any if you don't have a KFF Big Mek to deploy them near.

Modified my speed freak list based upon replies here to be trukk based instead of wagon. Liked idea of including a supa kannon but isn't working out points wise and thinking more lootas is better bet.

I was being lazy on scribe, this is a battalion and a spearhead for 4 cp
9 drops

Lootas may be combined to a single unit of 10 to make better use of CP re rolls as I have enough heavy reqs


Banner nob and weirdboy ride in ard case wagon with boys. 2 spots open in each flash git trukk to accommodate them if wagon blows up.

Quick thought on the BC vs unupgraded Nobs debate...

Wouldn't a Combi-Scorcha be better value for a Boss Nob before a Big Choppa? I don't know the points values, but I think the combi-skorcha is cheaper too- and it's utility in Overwatch and for auto-hits... Yes? No?

Kombi-Skorchas are 19 points and the combi benefits are pointless for Orks. It's hard to justify en masse for the cost.

I've never thought Orks were a bad shooting army, but someone at GW must be terrified with how they costed some of these guns.

The combi scorcha is about 20 points. Big choppa is 9.

I thought I'd ask about bikes. I bought a set of 3 bikes yesterday. I am probably going to use one of them as a warboss on a bike for my next game. In future games, I was thinking to run a 3 man squad of bikers or biker nobs.

Sp I calculated....3 nobs with 1 boss nob w/ big choppa is 90 points.

3 biker nobs with big choppa is 135. But they can also change in their slugga for shoota, and get potentially 8 shots each.

So for 45 points, you get 2 models with extra strength, wound and attack. Is it worth it? I am leaning towards running the 90 point squad and see how my opponent reacts to them.

bucheonman wrote:
The combi scorcha is about 20 points. Big choppa is 9.

I thought I'd ask about bikes. I bought a set of 3 bikes yesterday. I am probably going to use one of them as a warboss on a bike for my next game. In future games, I was thinking to run a 3 man squad of bikers or biker nobs.

Sp I calculated....3 nobs with 1 boss nob w/ big choppa is 90 points.

3 biker nobs with big choppa is 135. But they can also change in their slugga for shoota, and get potentially 8 shots each.

So for 45 points, you get 2 models with extra strength, wound and attack. Is it worth it? I am leaning towards running the 90 point squad and see how my opponent reacts to them.

I shelved my Bike Horde this edition, they just aren't worth the cost. The average biker went up in price 50% and lost durability. Doubling his shots sounds great but if you do the math its not that much of an improvement for Orkz. Here let me show you.

TL Heavy Bolter on a BS4 Marine meant 2 hits on the first batch and a 2/3rd chance to hit with the 2nd batch. So 2.66 hits a turn, NOW that TL heavy bolter is doing 4 hits a turn, an improvement of 1.34.

TL Dakka Gunz on a BS2 Ork meant 1 hit on the first batch and a 2/3rd chance to get 1 more, 1.66 hits a turn, NOW it averages 2. an improvement of 0.34.

As to the durability loss, Warbikers lost JINK and they lost their +1 to cover when turbo-boosting. They gained +1 wound, however, due to the nature of the new rules a number of weapons used against bikers now have D3, D6 or 2-3 damage each so the likelihood of losing a biker to shooting has actually gone up dramatically. I used to love putting warbikers out front after turbo-boosting turn 1 during night fighting. +2 to cover saves meant a 2+ jink save, now they just die to anything that has 2 damage or better and -1+ AP.

Now with all that said lets throw some light on that dark parade. 1st off, biker characters are doing pretty good in this edition, so using your bikers as Big Mekz on bike or Warbosses on Bike is a good idea. ALSO and probably most importantly, GW is going to release an Ork Codex HOPEFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with updates to ork units after theyve gathered all the current data that shows 3/4ths of the codex is hot garbage. So if we are lucky they might drop Bikers down to 18pts again where they are usable, they might also add +1 to most ork ranged weapons in the hopes of giving us a semi-shooty army. Fingers crossed!

I don't think mech orks will be competitive this edition. Unless a trukk gods down to 50 pts or something.

 koooaei wrote:
I don't think mech orks will be competitive this edition. Unless a trukk gods down to 50 pts or something.

I think some of that will depend on "Clan" tactics if any effect vehicles in a positive way I think it could make a big difference.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

bucheonman wrote:
The combi scorcha is about 20 points. Big choppa is 9.

I thought I'd ask about bikes. I bought a set of 3 bikes yesterday. I am probably going to use one of them as a warboss on a bike for my next game. In future games, I was thinking to run a 3 man squad of bikers or biker nobs.

Sp I calculated....3 nobs with 1 boss nob w/ big choppa is 90 points.

3 biker nobs with big choppa is 135. But they can also change in their slugga for shoota, and get potentially 8 shots each.

So for 45 points, you get 2 models with extra strength, wound and attack. Is it worth it? I am leaning towards running the 90 point squad and see how my opponent reacts to them.

I shelved my Bike Horde this edition, they just aren't worth the cost. The average biker went up in price 50% and lost durability. Doubling his shots sounds great but if you do the math its not that much of an improvement for Orkz. Here let me show you.

TL Heavy Bolter on a BS4 Marine meant 2 hits on the first batch and a 2/3rd chance to hit with the 2nd batch. So 2.66 hits a turn, NOW that TL heavy bolter is doing 4 hits a turn, an improvement of 1.34.

TL Dakka Gunz on a BS2 Ork meant 1 hit on the first batch and a 2/3rd chance to get 1 more, 1.66 hits a turn, NOW it averages 2. an improvement of 0.34.

As to the durability loss, Warbikers lost JINK and they lost their +1 to cover when turbo-boosting. They gained +1 wound, however, due to the nature of the new rules a number of weapons used against bikers now have D3, D6 or 2-3 damage each so the likelihood of losing a biker to shooting has actually gone up dramatically. I used to love putting warbikers out front after turbo-boosting turn 1 during night fighting. +2 to cover saves meant a 2+ jink save, now they just die to anything that has 2 damage or better and -1+ AP.

Now with all that said lets throw some light on that dark parade. 1st off, biker characters are doing pretty good in this edition, so using your bikers as Big Mekz on bike or Warbosses on Bike is a good idea. ALSO and probably most importantly, GW is going to release an Ork Codex HOPEFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with updates to ork units after theyve gathered all the current data that shows 3/4ths of the codex is hot garbage. So if we are lucky they might drop Bikers down to 18pts again where they are usable, they might also add +1 to most ork ranged weapons in the hopes of giving us a semi-shooty army. Fingers crossed!

I feel like something orks lack is a character that gives out re-rolls. I understand not wanting it for our close combat units (because re-rolling for a unit of 30 boyz is annoying), but I think an Ork that allows re-roll misses for shooting would go a long way to making orks better, or a Clan tactic that allows re-roll misses in some manner. Bikes with a 5+ re-rollable on 6 shots would do pretty well averaging 3-4 hits per model.

I personally think +1Attack is better then a reroll when a Waaagh banner is near.

@skyfi
Trukk orkz, can't comment on it much. Last Edition 15 Lootas could shoot two trukkz off the table, this Ed the trukk has a greater then 50% chance to survive without cover. I don't know if that means trukk is tough or Lootas are bad really. Trukk lists themselves need to change, Ork Boyz stayed the same cost and didn't really get a whole lot better. So a transport that goes from 35 to 85 points seems wasted transporting them. Wrecking ball is a must take IMO.

Strictly speaking in terms of shooty trukk ork lists;
-I think your drops should only be t6 and t5 models. I think a t7 Battlewagon lets enemy anti tank earn it's points quick. All t4 orkz should be in a trukk
-Big Mek KFF on bike is a must have
-I think Lootas in trukkz are a waste in this list
-I think the Dakkajet is useful in this list, hands out some dice and it's base can deny assault range vs assaulty stuff
-To cover lost damage for taking Dakkajets over Lootas I think you double up on Tankbustas in trukkz
-I think you run tankbustas 2x5 in trukkz for two meltabombs and two squigs
-I think a Burna trukk or two would be a good CP dump, rerolling number of hits.
-I think 5 or so Flash Gitz in a trukk is shooting comparable to 20 Shoota Boyz. I think Dakkajet is better, but Flash gitz could stand on an objective later.
-I think some Warbuggies could be used as a speed bump.

Finally, I have no confidence in anything I wrote here. I think Orkz on wheels should be assaulting, but if I wanted to shoot from Trukkz like some elfy gitz I would bring tankbustas in mass. Hopefully somebody like Blackie gets a chance to chime in, he liked talkin about goin fast in 7e and has probably tried it this edition.

EDIT, are Dark Eldar doing well because of the vehicle changes? If so, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Trukk Orkz may get better to



An example. You could remove the buggy/kopta element for two trukkz of flash gitz or Burna Boyz maybe. Or even a fourth jet. Again, this is only if you want to run shooty orkz. You protect the trukkz from assault with buggies and dakkajet bases, protect from shooting with area denial and KFF.

Also, an empty trukk to pick up tankbustas if you lose a trukk turn one.