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I think GWs reason for not making trukks cheap this edition is that you can charge with vehicles now, so if you could bring a lot of cheap trukks you could just charge them all into enemy units preventing a lot of enemy units from firing and basically tar pitting them in trukks which are a lot harder to kill i CC now.

I think if they gave trukks some sort of nerf which made them easier to kill in CC then they could lower the price.

DE have 5++ and their shooting is nuts compared to ork shooting. Blasters are amazing weapons for 15 pts.

I have a speed freak batrep a couple pages ago. I'm not amazed with how they perform. And the reason why i don't think mech orks will work on top tier level in this edition if we don't have massive point changes is the following:
unlike such successful mech armies like de and harlequins, we don't get powerful shooting mixed in and focus primarily on mellee. Purely mellee squads got to go in the open before the enemy most dangerous stuff is neutered => they are the prime target after the initial combat is over. To weather the storm, they need to be quite durable or numerous. But our numerous stuff is not durable and our durable stuff is not numerous for points. So, we end up with either not too durable troops or too expensive elites. If we go the first route, we don't kill enough and we don't live too well and the vehicles themselves are too expensive to get an effective chaf spam. If we go the second route, we don't get enough units and with every vehicle going down, we loose a significant part of our forces.

So, there are a couple solutions:
- Make vehicles much less expensive - good for 1-st option with cheap boyz inside, however, i doubt that trukks will really drop to 40-45 pts. Also, 10-12 boyz still do very little damage without buffs and will still go down easilly with their 6+ save.
- Make elite squads much cheaper and by much i mean like 20% for nobz and 40% for meganobz. I doubt this will happen as the issues with ork army are quite subtle and there will be a huge outcry about OMG OP ORKS.
- Add good cheap fire support like all the other mech armies get. This is possible but it also requires some insight on how orks work in real games. We either need small squads of VERY point efficient shooters that can blend in the mech alongside choppy units (yep, much better than tankbustas) or backfield units that are once again very cheap but effective and durable or numerous and thus not take away from the front that really lacks bodies allready.

So, overall, i just don't think that gw understands our problems. And that's why they ain't gona be solved.

 Rismonite wrote:
I personally think +1Attack is better then a reroll when a Waaagh banner is near.

I mean it depends on the unit for units like MANZ re-rolls would be slightly better. Also that is why I said re-rolls for shooting (a boyz squad with +2 attacks, hitting on 2+ re-rollable would be silly) it would allow units like Lootas, bikes, kans, mek guns, to be more reliable and give us more options and super boyz mobs.

Breng77 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
I personally think +1Attack is better then a reroll when a Waaagh banner is near.

I mean it depends on the unit for units like MANZ re-rolls would be slightly better. Also that is why I said re-rolls for shooting (a boyz squad with +2 attacks, hitting on 2+ re-rollable would be silly) it would allow units like Lootas, bikes, kans, mek guns, to be more reliable and give us more options and super boyz mobs.

My fault

You know if Badrukk gave Gun Crazy Showoffs to all orkz within 9" that would be kinda kewl..

 Rismonite wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
I personally think +1Attack is better then a reroll when a Waaagh banner is near.

I mean it depends on the unit for units like MANZ re-rolls would be slightly better. Also that is why I said re-rolls for shooting (a boyz squad with +2 attacks, hitting on 2+ re-rollable would be silly) it would allow units like Lootas, bikes, kans, mek guns, to be more reliable and give us more options and super boyz mobs.

My fault

You know if Badrukk gave Gun Crazy Showoffs to all orkz within 9" that would be kinda kewl..

I mean I'd settle for him giving re-roll 1s to hit to all orks within 6" it wouldn't be great, but it would be a little buff to a bunch of our units. But yeah giving near by units a 1/6 chance of shooting again would be cool too.

 Rismonite wrote:


Finally, I have no confidence in anything I wrote here. I think Orkz on wheels should be assaulting, but if I wanted to shoot from Trukkz like some elfy gitz I would bring tankbustas in mass. Hopefully somebody like Blackie gets a chance to chime in, he liked talkin about goin fast in 7e and has probably tried it this edition.

EDIT, are Dark Eldar doing well because of the vehicle changes? If so, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Trukk Orkz may get better to

Hi, you're right, I'm still playing with several vehicles, I just switched from trukks to BWs. I tipycally field 3 BWs full of ghaz and boyz and two trukks with 4 min units of bustas, some of them shielded by a KFF, 2 biker characters and KMKs. Only 8-9 drops in total and quite durable against tons of anti-infantries weapons which seem to dominate my meta. I also can't stand moving 200 footslogging orks and movement trays were one the reasons I never liked warhammer fantasy Pure green tide is not an option for me, regardless of its efficiency.

I also play dark eldar, they're my second army, and your're right about that too, even if they've become quite better thanks to several other factors. But paper things like DE transports have now decent durability, that's for sure. Also trukks are more resilient and they are nice to carry shooty units since you need tons of bodies to assault properly in this edition. Problem is, the only decent shooty units that can be embarked, are tankbustas. Lootas can benefit from the transport too but you're actually paying for a sort of bunker, not a transport in that case.

Not sure about planes, I've never bought them since I don't like the models. Only the dakkajet seems a bit reliable, but I still prefer warbikes to be honest.

I haven't tried buggies either, even if they're among my favorite models, since their cost is too high. I've just fielded some skorchas a couple of times and they didn't earn their points back. Burnaboyz and flash gitz shared the same destiny, for the same reason, so far. I've tried warbikes in a few occasions, they're overcosted but not that bad: they throw a decent amount of shots and/or soak a lot of firepower saving the vehicles. Just be sure that the anti-infantry weapons are not in range at least in turns 1-2 since bikes suffer a lot some massed S4 firepower which doesn't particularly hurt vehicles.

As you said before orks should be assaulty but in trukks they don't have the numbers to threaten any possible opponent, while 3 BWs full of boyz can do a decent job. Since pks are not reliable against vehicles I noticed that 20ish rokkits are still mandatory in this kind of list and if you field BWs and ghaz is embarked in one of them, many opponents will focus on the big transports leaving the bustas trukks untouched.

The biker big mek with KFF is nice but a 5++ invuln is certainly not gold. However it does its work when it comes to protect vehicles with 10+ wounds since statistically you should be able to save a multiwounds hit per vehicle. They become more resilient this way. BWs only with 'ard case to carry assaulty units, having T8 is huge, while bustas are fine in trukks.

Trukks, BWs, and buggies are quite overcosted though, how can a rhino be cheaper than a trukk when it has better T and armor save? If orks vehicles were fairly costed speed freaks armies would be the way to go, but right now 30 boyz plus weirdboy is still our better combo.

 Blackie wrote:



Trukks, BWs, and buggies are quite overcosted though, how can a rhino be cheaper than a trukk when it has better T and armor save? If orks vehicles were fairly costed speed freaks armies would be the way to go, but right now 30 boyz plus weirdboy is still our better combo.

Ehh I can see why Trukk should be slightly more expensive than Rhino. 10 Wounds T6 4+/5++ (because why not take a Big Mek KFF in every list). Invuln saves matter WAY more on vehicles than on troops. Then it's got Ramshackle, Open-Topped, better shooting (5+ Rokkit Launcha > 3+ Storm Bolter), better melee, and bigger transport capacity. Can you imagine if Rhino was open-topped? Ramshackle and Smoke Launchers seem to equal each other out.

The problem isn't the Trukk so much as it is the lack of OP dakka to make use of open-topped. Tankbustas are our best option, and I'd say they're fairly balanced in the grand scheme of things.

Nairul wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


Trukks, BWs, and buggies are quite overcosted though, how can a rhino be cheaper than a trukk when it has better T and armor save? If orks vehicles were fairly costed speed freaks armies would be the way to go, but right now 30 boyz plus weirdboy is still our better combo.

Ehh I can see why Trukk should be slightly more expensive than Rhino. 10 Wounds T6 4+/5++ (because why not take a Big Mek KFF in every list)... with Ramshackle, Open-Topped, better shooting (5+ Rokkit Launcha > 3+ Storm Bolter), better melee, and bigger transport capacity. Can you imagine if Rhino was open-topped?

The problem isn't the Trukk so much as it is the lack of OP dakka to make use of open-topped. Tankbustas are our best option, and I'd say they're fairly balanced in the grand scheme of things.

T6 Vs T7, 4+ vs 3+ (if you want to add in the KFF big mek you need to add another 80ish points) better shooting? A rhino can take 2 Storm bolters for 4 S4 shots or 8 At half range hitting on 3s for 4pts, we can take 1 s8 shot hitting on 5s for 12pts. I would say they have better shooting then us. OT is nice but as you pointed out we lack any units worth putting in there. So to summarize, the Trukk is worse in every way possible to the Rhino except it has OT which it can't use very well and it can take a wrecking ball....

SemperMortis wrote:


T6 Vs T7, 4+ vs 3+ (if you want to add in the KFF big mek you need to add another 80ish points) better shooting? A rhino can take 2 Storm bolters for 4 S4 shots or 8 At half range hitting on 3s for 4pts, we can take 1 s8 shot hitting on 5s for 12pts. I would say they have better shooting then us. OT is nice but as you pointed out we lack any units worth putting in there. So to summarize, the Trukk is worse in every way possible to the Rhino except it has OT which it can't use very well and it can take a wrecking ball....

1) Knowing 40K weapons, T6 vs T7 is not nearly as significant a difference as T7 vs. T8, for example.
2) It's hard for me not to imagine an Ork list where KFF Big Mek on Bike doesn't belong. Amazing with Mechanized lists. Lifeblood of horde lists. You're not taking it only for the Trukk, so don't think of it like that.
3) Sure 4+ vs 3+, but Invuln saves on vehicles matter WAY more, because most weapons shooting at them will have -2 or -3 AP. Can you imagine if Rhinos had an invuln?
4) Looking at the math, Rokkit Launcha vs. 2x SB is a close call in terms of damage output. Obviously they're meant for different targets, and therefore they outperform one another depending on who you are shooting. So I take back my claim of "better shooting." It's more of a wash.
5) So you agree -- the deficiency lies more in the lack of great dakka troops than with the transport carrying them =)

I actually think that Ork transports are decent this edition. A trukk is not as survivable as a rhino, but it wasn't in previous editions either. I think the BW with hard top is a good transport, and a fairly unique one in 40k.

Orks real problem is that Boyz don't work well in transports, and we have nothing shooty that targets infantry and can be put in a transport. I feel that for a transport to be worth it, the troops inside should be twice as expensive as the transport, otherwise the transport tax simply becomes to big.

I think there are a number of possible solutions for Ork mech:

1) Bring back heavy armor as an option for Boyz.

2) Let Boyz squads take a big shoota/rokkit for every five models

3) Let us take squads of bigshoota boyz that works similarly to tankbustas. 5+6 points per model.

4) Increase burnas to D6 attacks or reduce their price to 10 points.

5) Give flashgitz a 4+ save and give the snazzgun an assault 3 profile.

6) Decrease the trukk to 8 wounds and decrease it's price to 50 points.

7) Let meks and spanners repair vehicles when embarked.

8) Give us a warbike option for weirdboyz and banner nobz

9) Not really mech related, but warbikes needs a price reduction. In fact almost every two-wound model in 8th is a bit overcosted, including things like terminators and primaris marines. A two wound model does not have the same durability as two single-wound models.

Thanks again for replies. Thought more and more, helping a friend practice for a GT this weekend so going to make a tougher list to help him prep than my normal "everything in a transport themed list".. came up with two options similar to one another...

First has 4 squads on food (min squads of grots x3 and one of boys) to be jumped onto objectives.

Brigade detachment so +9 CP
Boys in wagon + chars (weirdboy can start inside then hop out to jump grots screening edges of wagons to prevent deep striking plasma/melta)
Boys in wagon
Bustas x2 in trukk
Gits in trukk (better anti infantry and decent anti tank with s5 -2ap) I could do 9ish lootas in trukk instead but figured gits worked better as I have plenty of rokkits




Option 2 is battalion so +3 Cp and a spearhead +1 cp I copied my scribe stuff lazily again. Sorry.

This has 3 hard case rolla wagons of 20 boys (one has room for characters)
Trukk with gits
Trukk with 2x bustas
KFF mek on bike with killsaw

So only 6 drops, more boys, more true to speed freaks while trying to stay competitive. Again gits could dip out and free up 230+ points to include zardsnark and some koptas or buggies etc

pismakron wrote:
I actually think that Ork transports are decent this edition. A trukk is not as survivable as a rhino, but it wasn't in previous editions either. I think the BW with hard top is a good transport, and a fairly unique one in 40k.

Orks real problem is that Boyz don't work well in transports, and we have nothing shooty that targets infantry and can be put in a transport. I feel that for a transport to be worth it, the troops inside should be twice as expensive as the transport, otherwise the transport tax simply becomes to big.

I think there are a number of possible solutions for Ork mech:

1) Bring back heavy armor as an option for Boyz.

2) Let Boyz squads take a big shoota/rokkit for every five models

3) Let us take squads of bigshoota boyz that works similarly to tankbustas. 5+6 points per model.

4) Increase burnas to D6 attacks or reduce their price to 10 points.

5) Give flashgitz a 4+ save and give the snazzgun an assault 3 profile.

6) Decrease the trukk to 8 wounds and decrease it's price to 50 points.

7) Let meks and spanners repair vehicles when embarked.

8) Give us a warbike option for weirdboyz and banner nobz

9) Not really mech related, but warbikes needs a price reduction. In fact almost every two-wound model in 8th is a bit overcosted, including things like terminators and primaris marines. A two wound model does not have the same durability as two single-wound models.

1.) I'm wondering if that will somehow be a clan tactic/special unit

2.)Could be interesting

3.) Again interesting ranged unit that isn't heavy weapons

4.) I think they stay D3, I would be tempted to say they should be around 8-10 points. I might go with making them 5 points per model, then give burnas a cost (3-5 points) and give you the option to upgrade a few to skorchas. Skorchas I also think need a bit of a price drop, maybe 12 points instead of 17.

5.) I'd almost like to see flashgitz with a rapid fire profile, maybe 18" rapid fire 3.

6.) I don't think making trukks much cheaper is the way to go I'd prefer maybe dropping them to 70 points, so that they are 76 with a big shoota.

7.) I'm ok with all "mek" type models in the game being able to do this.

8.) I could see this though less needed to make the mech list good.

9.) I think more than that Buggies and the like need a price reduction, especially on their weapons, if they stayed about the same base cost 40-45 point range and twin weapons get reduced so twin big shoota is maybe 10 points (for marines the Heavy bolter is 10 points and twin is 17, so 3 points cheaper than 2 of the same weapon) so I think 2 points cheaper for the twin big shoota seems fair. As for twin Rokkits, in no case is the twin weapon for marines more than twice the cost of a single weapon in most cases it is between a 66% and 100% increase, so I would say maybe have twin rokkits be 21-24 points. I think the skorcha buggy also needs a twin skorcha option at around 25 points. This would make most of these options be in the 50-70 point range.

If you come across Biovores it's an instant lose.

Nairul wrote:


Ehh I can see why Trukk should be slightly more expensive than Rhino. 10 Wounds T6 4+/5++ (because why not take a Big Mek KFF in every list). Invuln saves matter WAY more on vehicles than on troops.

A big mek on bike costs 101 points bare bones. 2 rhinos are cheaper than a trukk + big mek and certainly more durable with that many more wounds. The big mek can't cover more than 3 vehicles, maybe 4, if you deploy them very very close, which is probably something you don't want. A footslogging big mek is cheaper but he doesn't have synegy with vehicles.

Nairul wrote:


Then it's got Ramshackle, Open-Topped, better shooting (5+ Rokkit Launcha > 3+ Storm Bolter), better melee, and bigger transport capacity. Can you imagine if Rhino was open-topped? Ramshackle and Smoke Launchers seem to equal each other out.

Ramshackle is not that great, if the vehicle takes serious anti tank it dies anyway. Open topped is great actually and it's the reason why trukks can only carry tankbustas, which is a decent combo but it's useless with any other unit embarked, since melee units don't care about that and other shooty units don't worth their points. Trukk's melee is useless, it only soaks overwatch, like rhinos. Bigger transport capacity is not a bonus since the worst marine is way more durable than the average ork, 12 orks are less resilient than 10 marines. Don't compare their shooting, cause the rhino's one is superior. I'll take 2-4 S4 shots with BS 3+ against a single S8 shot that hits on 5s everytime. With a rokkit launcha a trukk is 88 points, a rhino with 2 stormbolters is only 74 points and in rapid fire range throws 8 S4 shots. Rokkits seem great for orks, but SM have tons of better shooty options, they don't need heavy weapons on a 10 man transport. They also have razorbacks for that purpose, a razorback with twin assault cannon and a stormbolter throws 12 S6 and 2-4 S4 shots with bs 3+ for 102 points, only 14 points more than a trukk with a rokkit. And 6 marines are tipycally more durable than 12 orks too.

Nairul wrote:


The problem isn't the Trukk so much as it is the lack of OP dakka to make use of open-topped. Tankbustas are our best option, and I'd say they're fairly balanced in the grand scheme of things.

The problem with the trukk is its cost. A melee units becomes too expensive for what he does with a transport. We only have the 2x5 tankbustas + squigs as reliable option for trukks. And that means that there's something that need to be fixed about the current trukks.

Nairul wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


T6 Vs T7, 4+ vs 3+ (if you want to add in the KFF big mek you need to add another 80ish points) better shooting? A rhino can take 2 Storm bolters for 4 S4 shots or 8 At half range hitting on 3s for 4pts, we can take 1 s8 shot hitting on 5s for 12pts. I would say they have better shooting then us. OT is nice but as you pointed out we lack any units worth putting in there. So to summarize, the Trukk is worse in every way possible to the Rhino except it has OT which it can't use very well and it can take a wrecking ball....

1) Knowing 40K weapons, T6 vs T7 is not nearly as significant a difference as T7 vs. T8, for example.
2) It's hard for me not to imagine an Ork list where KFF Big Mek on Bike doesn't belong. Amazing with Mechanized lists. Lifeblood of horde lists. You're not taking it only for the Trukk, so don't think of it like that.
3) Sure 4+ vs 3+, but Invuln saves on vehicles matter WAY more, because most weapons shooting at them will have -2 or -3 AP. Can you imagine if Rhinos had an invuln?
4) Looking at the math, Rokkit Launcha vs. 2x SB is a close call in terms of damage output. Obviously they're meant for different targets, and therefore they outperform one another depending on who you are shooting. So I take back my claim of "better shooting." It's more of a wash.
5) So you agree -- the deficiency lies more in the lack of great dakka troops than with the transport carrying them =)

T6 Vs T7 isnt as big as it was last edition but it is still important, S6 weapons are fairly common and wounding on 4s over 5s is a big deal. But more importantly a 3+ vs a 4+ is a huge deal. So at the end of the day the Trukk is more expensive and less durable and as you said the dakka is a wash (though I would say 2 Stormbolters > 1 Rokkit or 1 Big Shoota). As to the KFF Big Mek on a bike....I don't have one and I don't see a huge reason to make one right now. But since you are adding it you need to factor that into the pts cost of the trukk vs Rhino otherwise you need to get rid of it all together, so lets space it out over 3 trukks to be fair, a big mek on bike with KFF and nothing else costs 101pts so that means you need to add 33.66pts to each trukk to get that 5++ KFF. The KFF only benefits the trukk on weapons that are -2AP or better. The Rhino will still be as durable until it hits -3 AP weapons and that is where the KFF starts benefiting the Trukk more then the 3+ save benefits the rhino. And now that Trukk went from 82pts (Big shoota) to 115pts because of the Cost of the KFF Big Mek on a bike who is useless except to provide that buff. Finally, to talk to your 5th point, the deficiency for Dakka should have been calculated into the cost of the trukk not the other way around so therefore the trukk should be CHEAPER then the rhino at the absolute least. Since a bare bones rhino is 70pts that means a Trukk should at the very least be 10pts less to justify the -1 toughness and -1 armor save.

And on my last thought, the only reason Orkz took Trukkz last edition was because they were Open Topped which gave them the assault vehicle special rule. This allowed 6in movement, pile out and then a 2D6 charge with rerolls. For that ability we were willing to pay 30pts (35 with ram) This edition, EVERY vehicle has that ability except nerfed. So orkz are now paying for a less durable platform that doesn't work like it is supposed to, now if they change the rules in our codex release to allow trukks to move 6-12, disembark and then charge...that is a different story, but I highly doubt that will happen.

Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model. For single-model units it only needs to touch a part of their base/hull (and for multi-model units, all must be touched by the 9" bubble... not wholly within). So a Big Mek on a Bike creates an effective ~20" diameter KFF bubble (accounting for base size of the bike). That's almost half the width of some deployment maps. I'd say you could fit lots more than only 3 Trukks in there. Hell, I've fit 3x units of 90 Stormboyz!

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model. For single-model units it only needs to touch a part of their base/hull (and for multi-model units, all must be touched by the 9" bubble... not wholly within).

So a Big Mek on a Bike creates an effective ~20" diameter KFF bubble (accounting for base size of the bike). That's almost half the width of some deployment maps.

I'd say you could fit lots more than only 3 Trukks in there. Hell, I've fit 3x units of 90 Stormboyz!

And by doing so you surrender board control to your opponent all in the name of getting a 5++ save. But that doesn't change the fact that as I showed, a 5++ Doesn't even benefit a trukk over a 3+ on a Rhino until that Rhino faces AP-3 So even if you crammed 5 trukkz into the bubble you are still tacking on 20pts to the trukk for a save that still isn't as good as the Rhino's 3+ unless its getting hit with lascannons.

So again, the Trukk is wildly over priced for what little it can do and provides for the Ork action. Yes in other factions it might be worth more since its got OT but that doesn't matter, what matters is how useful it is for Orkz

And Ramshackle is not as minuscule as some may think. Remember it's per atttack. So if D6 dmg weapons (e.g. Lascannons) deal an average of 3.5 Dmg per unsaved wound... that means you'll have an average of 3x Ramshackle attempts against them. Out of 3 attempts odds aren't terrible you'll roll one 6, requiring a 4th unsaved wound for your Trukk to die. Against your average Dmg D3 weapons, you'll get even more Ramshackle attempts. Also your 14" moving Big Mek is never too far away, giving you D3 heals each turn.

Between Ramshackle, 5++ Invuln, and Mek repairs.. I stand by my statement that the Trukk is slightly more durable than a Rhino.

Nairul wrote:
And Ramshackle is not as minuscule as some may think. Remember it's per atttack. So if D6 dmg weapons (e.g. Lascannons) deal an average of 3.5 Dmg per unsaved wound... that means you'll have an average of 3x Ramshackle attempts against them. Out of 3 attempts odds aren't terrible you'll roll one 6, requiring a 4th unsaved wound for your Trukk to die. Against your average Dmg D3 weapons, you'll get even more Ramshackle attempts. Also your 14" moving Big Mek is never too far away, giving you D3 heals each turn.

Between Ramshackle, 5++ Invuln, and Mek repairs.. I stand by my statement that the Trukk is slightly more durable than a Rhino.

Except that SMs get Mek repairs as well, even on a bike...with better armor, and better CCWs for basically free. (12pt powerfist).

Also the way Ramshackle works is you roll a D6 when you take more then 1 damage from a weapon, on a roll of 6 you only take 1 damage. Rhinos get +1 wounds back at the start of the turn if they roll a 6. Personally Ramshackle is better but sure as hell not as good as more toughness/better armor save and cheaper price.

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model.

It does. Got faq-d

I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

 koooaei wrote:

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model.

It does. Got faq-d

I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

no it didn't get FAQ'd, the FAQ said the unit must be entirely within the 9" bubble. For something to be within it must be at least touching based on the cover rules. So the bumper of a trukk touching the bubble means the unit (made up of a single model) is entirely within.

 koooaei wrote:

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model.

It does. Got faq-d

I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

I have never seen them outside rhinos, and when they are inside a rhino you can block their disembark, and slay them with the transport. It is fairly straight forward, although in my local meta counter-tactics are emerging (kissing rhinos etc). If they get the charge on you, zerkers (and genestealers) will just delete whatever they touch.

A Deffdread with 4 dread klaws could do work if it gets there, yeah? I mean, the biggest problem everyone has with them is movement and ppd?

Unfortunately they're big problems. Especially since you have to dump points into supporting them on top of their already high cost.

 JohnU wrote:
Unfortunately they're big problems. Especially since you have to dump points into supporting them on top of their already high cost.

Actually, I already have the list to support it. It's an easy plug-in. I just think 6 Str10 D3 attacks could be awesome.

v0iddrgn wrote:
I just think 6 Str10 D3 attacks could be awesome.

If that's what you're looking for a PK Biker Boss is pretty close, with more than double the speed and almost half the cost. The Ironclad changes in the SM dex have me hopeful deff dreads will be getting a big price adjustment.

 JohnU wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I just think 6 Str10 D3 attacks could be awesome.

If that's what you're looking for a PK Biker Boss is pretty close, with more than double the speed and almost half the cost. The Ironclad changes in the SM dex have me hopeful deff dreads will be getting a big price adjustment.

Don't know if 4 DD3 attacks is comparable. I'm hopeful the Deffdread will get a boost with the codex too.

 koooaei wrote:

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model.

It does. Got faq-d

I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every
model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long
as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.

v0iddrgn wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I just think 6 Str10 D3 attacks could be awesome.

If that's what you're looking for a PK Biker Boss is pretty close, with more than double the speed and almost half the cost. The Ironclad changes in the SM dex have me hopeful deff dreads will be getting a big price adjustment.

Don't know if 4 DD3 attacks is comparable. I'm hopeful the Deffdread will get a boost with the codex too.

Just take zhardsnark he has 5 atks at 2+ With basically a killsaw And does an extra mortal wound on a roll of 6.
And he's even faster then a normal biker w longer range guns for much less then a dread and 11pts more then a warboss on bike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

malcontent999 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Nairul wrote:
Remember the 9" KFF bubble doesn't need to cover the entire model.

It does. Got faq-d

I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every
model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long
as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.

And the kff only says within not wholly within.

gungo wrote:
And the kff only says within not wholly within.

From the latest FAQ:

Pages 14, 15, 16, 31 and 38 – Kustom Force Field
Change the first sentence of this rule to read:
‘If this model is equipped with a kustom force field,
friendly Ork units that are entirely within 9" have a 5+
invulnerable save against ranged weapons.’

I would guess that "entirely within" means the same thing is "wholly within" but maybe I'm wrong about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm somewhat concerned with zerkers getting possible 15 s5+ attacks per model with no point increase. Need to think how can footsloggers really deal with them. We need to bauble wrap HARD to get a chance to retaliate and than a counter-attack strategem ruins us once again. And we don't have good enough shooting for points to oppose meq with rhinos. Got to wait for codex, it seems. So far, dexes are a massive power creep.

Things like that are going to be hard to deal with in the short term, but it also makes me really excited to see what we get when the Ork codex comes out.

I really doubt this will happen, but it would make me happy if GW changed the Rokkit Launcha to be 24", Assault d3, Strength 8, AP -2, Damage 2. It would represent a relatively small but powerful blast. It would also make the Rokkit Launcha more worth its points. Might have to slightly increase the cost of Tankbustas with that change though.