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Note that it doesn't say "models" entirely within. A unit is entirely within the bubble as long as all of the unit's models touch the bubble. There you go.

So, it's hardly going to win against anything super competitive, but I think it would be tons of fun to play. What do you think of the Rollin Waaagh?



Meks go in whichever wagons i think my opponent is giving the evil eye, and the tankbustas/lootas ride in the battlefortress(Gargantuan Squiggoth). Since our vehicles like to assault, the strategy is to get in close while throwing down lots of dakka. I know the lootas will be -1 to hit on the move, but that's why there's fewer of them than bustas. Plus when the fortress is in combat and stationary, they'll be able to fire over everyone's heads without a BS penalty

 JohnU wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I just think 6 Str10 D3 attacks could be awesome.

If that's what you're looking for a PK Biker Boss is pretty close, with more than double the speed and almost half the cost. The Ironclad changes in the SM dex have me hopeful deff dreads will be getting a big price adjustment.

He really isn't that close if what you want is damage out put. Dread is 149 pts for 6 S10 D3, the Biker Boss is 106 points for 4 S12 DD3 attacks. The big advantages to the biker boss are durability (he cannot be shot unless he is closest), shooting (6 S5 shots) and speed (> twice as fast) Dreads can work ok if you already have a list that has other things that are drawing your opponents high damage fire power, if they are the biggest thing on your side they go down quick.

You need a boss anywayz. And you can live without a dread

Late to the party, is there any discussion on trying to make the Kustom Stompa work? Or is it horrendously overpriced as it seems?

 dameanone wrote:
Late to the party, is there any discussion on trying to make the Kustom Stompa work? Or is it horrendously overpriced as it seems?

Every Ork walker is trash this edition. The Gorkanaut is meh because of its better then mork shooting and it gets more CC attacks.

The Forgeworld Mega/Mekadreadz look usable as well. But as to the stompa? Yeah it is about 300pts over priced, minimum.

 dameanone wrote:
Late to the party, is there any discussion on trying to make the Kustom Stompa work? Or is it horrendously overpriced as it seems?

I've been trying to build a working list around one to no avail. I've also read every page of this ork tactics thread, and no one else has done better/bothered. I want to field my stompa so bad, but I think it'll be almost an auto loss.

btw is anyone else getting really hopeful that GW drops the price of Killsaws, PKs and other CCWs for orkz?

If a PF drops from 20-12 then a PK should drop at least to 15 and killsaws to maybe 17-18. Also if a Big Choppa drops to 6 I might take it more often then not. And finally. Maybe they heavily reduce the price of Dreadnought style weaponry for our walkers. Imagine 10pts less per deffdread CCW.

Lifta-droppa output is horrendous, Belly Gun costs you transport ability, no KFF option, no Macro weapons on a ~1000pt model. No thanks.

If I had to use one, I'd probably go double klaw since you don't lose attacks from the damage table.

Lifta-droppas not tossing vehicles around anymore just makes me too sad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
btw is anyone else getting really hopeful that GW drops the price of Killsaws, PKs and other CCWs for orkz?

If a PF drops from 20-12 then a PK should drop at least to 15 and killsaws to maybe 17-18. Also if a Big Choppa drops to 6 I might take it more often then not. And finally. Maybe they heavily reduce the price of Dreadnought style weaponry for our walkers. Imagine 10pts less per deffdread CCW.

Their willingness to adjust prices on quite a few things (and not just small adjustments) leaves me hopeful.

I also like how they used stratagems for what used to be a special rule for a unit (like the TFC tremor shot). Wasn't something I had considered before and has a lot of possibilities.

Points wise it seems the Kill Tanks are decent, Mek w/ KFF inside or big mek on bike with KFF outside to repair?

SemperMortis wrote:
btw is anyone else getting really hopeful that GW drops the price of Killsaws, PKs and other CCWs for orkz?

If a PF drops from 20-12 then a PK should drop at least to 15 and killsaws to maybe 17-18. Also if a Big Choppa drops to 6 I might take it more often then not. And finally. Maybe they heavily reduce the price of Dreadnought style weaponry for our walkers. Imagine 10pts less per deffdread CCW.

I think it is a valid assumption that Klaws will drop at least the 8 points that fists has dropped. I don't know about killsaws. Chainfists has not dropped in points. If the price of Klaws don't drop they will only exist on characters, and that would be a shame.

But the bigger issue for Orks is that much of our stuff only works in mechanized lists, whereas Boyz only work in footslogging lists. There seems to be no way of running a combined arms list, because any transport in the game is prohibitively expensive when carrying 6 point models.

One way of fixing this would be to make the trukk a lot less durable and a lot less expensive. Say with 6 wounds for 35 points. Then we would have both a cheap throw-away transport for Boyz, and a more durable and expensive wagon for specialists and Nobz. But I don't think that will happen. All of the transports in 8th seems to be balanced on the assumption, that they will carry 15 point models, and when they do this, they are competitively priced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The stompa is very overpriced. Put in a similar amount of points into gorkanauts, battlewagons, or even deffdreads or similar, and you will have more wounds and more damage output. It is a shame, but hopefully they will reduce it's points in the codex, or at least double it's wounds.

pismakron wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The stompa is very overpriced. Put in a similar amount of points into gorkanauts, battlewagons, or even deffdreads or similar, and you will have more wounds and more damage output. It is a shame, but hopefully they will reduce it's points in the codex, or at least double it's wounds.

This made me laugh pretty hard. The irony here is that as it currently stands the Stompa is LESS durable then it was last edition EXCEPT vs Melta. That teamed with them reducing the dakka on the stompa's already gimpy ranged weapons means that if you own one it is going to be sitting on the shelf collecting dust like a giant ugly upside down vase

I haven't played a game with my Stompa yet. Partly because it just doesn't seem good. The Kustom Stompa seem really overpriced. It makes me kind of sad to compare it to any of the Imperial titans.

 dameanone wrote:
Points wise it seems the Kill Tanks are decent, Mek w/ KFF inside or big mek on bike with KFF outside to repair?

Kill Tanks do seem pretty good. I go back and forth between big mek on bike or in the tank. I'm actually thinking of running three Kill Tanks and running one biker mek and one infantry big mek embarked on one of the kill tanks.

I'm waiting for the Ork codex to come out before I make that kind of investment of time and money though.

Forge World has said that they're going to release datasheets for the missing models like the Mega Dread. What I'm hoping is that once GW releases its Ork Codex Forge World will release a big document that includes the missing units and makes changes to their Xenos book.

pismakron wrote:


The stompa is very overpriced. Put in a similar amount of points into gorkanauts, battlewagons, or even deffdreads or similar, and you will have more wounds and more damage output. It is a shame, but hopefully they will reduce it's points in the codex, or at least double it's wounds.

This is very true, a Gorkanaut is already better in close combat than the stompa, the only advantage the stompa has is 6 damage instead of D6 and an additional -1 AP, and then D3 damage on its more attack option, vs 2. But the gorkanaut has 6 attacks! Given that for ~120 points more than a stompa I can get 3 Gorkanauts
which would have 14 more wounds, be 3 separate targets, have 18 attacks in CC (not including the 3x attack option).

Is there a point to a Biker Doc in a list with a bunch of Boyz in Battlewagon and Trukks? I really like conversions of Doc model on Bike and was looking to make one but I realize that he is expensive point wise. How would you best use him in such list?

Azhday wrote:
Is there a point to a Biker Doc in a list with a bunch of Boyz in Battlewagon and Trukks? I really like conversions of Doc model on Bike and was looking to make one but I realize that he is expensive point wise. How would you best use him in such list?

Dont. Just proxy your doc model as Grotsnik, he is better across the board and only slightly more expensive then a regular dok. The only time I would suggest taking a dok on bike is if you are playing a massive biker/kopta horde and honestly at that point you have already lost so feel free to bring whatever.

Azhday wrote:
Is there a point to a Biker Doc in a list with a bunch of Boyz in Battlewagon and Trukks? I really like conversions of Doc model on Bike and was looking to make one but I realize that he is expensive point wise. How would you best use him in such list?

Put him in a transport with the boys.

[...]

Best ork shooting in the index is the kustom mega kannon on a purely mathhammer/shooting per point basis.

The new twin linked rules favor space marines. They went from a 1/3 increase in effectiveness to a doubling in effectiveness. To compound thus idiocy they doubled the base shots on the assault cannon so that the space marine equivalents now have an accessible 12 shot S6 platform on every razorback or flyer in their army for a miniscule points increase.

The math doesn't favor any ork shooting units compared to their Sm counterparts unless you're using men guns.

The transport problem with boys still exists but in different ways.

As far as close combat is concerned, my major concern is that every unit can now move and shoot with at worst a -1 bs.

Footslogging boys are moving an average of 8.5 inches a turn. A tactical squad can walk back 6 inches and still shoot effective fire with any weapon out to 24 inches..

The mobility gained from a warboss is a one time average of 3.5 inches on your charge.

That means you could potentially advance into charge range 11 inches and charge 12, but the average is closer to 3.5 inches advance plus 5 inch move and an average of around 8.3 inches if you reroll every result under 3 on your charge. I consider that to be pretty close to optimal.

That means you could depend on perhaps closing 8.5+8.3 inches the turn you charge.

However if terrain or board edge was not a factor the enemy squad can kite you 6 inches a turn resulting in a net of only 3.5 inches average gained a turn by footslogging boys until you get into that 16.8 inch average charge range.

Boys do now have an armor save against some things but I question both the reliability of the painvoy at only a 6+ for units touching a 6 inch radius and also the KFF which seems pretty much as useless as 7th for full 30 man squads.

So in my mind I'm trying to think of a combination of infiltrators like kommandos, da jump weirdboyz, or stormboys to at least fix units in place or draw fire while the main anvil of the greentide rolls slowly down the board. I'm not convinced on the warboss, the painboy, or the KFF Mek for that reason and I'm mostly concerned about mobility.

That said the fact that pistols now effectively doubled the close combat output of standard MEQs appears to have gone unnoticed. Maybe that's trivial, but it's still an ork boy per shooting phase in cc with a naked MEQ squad.

I'm going to second some people's thoughts on stormboys and ask for some more experimentation (please!) from people with weirdboyz da3 jump lists. Hey - a weirdboyz still cheaper than a drop pod....

I have a 3 game tournament tomorrow and I am bringing a weirdboy with da jump, a ton of kommandos and 40 stormboyz. I'll let you know

Ok, let me rephrase my question: If you had to run a bunch of Trukk/Battlewagon Boyz and a Doc on Bike, how would you position him? How would you use him most efficiently? I know math hammer is against it, but I'm pretty set on making Bike Doc and I want to use him in games.

Azhday wrote:
Ok, let me rephrase my question: If you had to run a bunch of Trukk/Battlewagon Boyz and a Doc on Bike, how would you position him? How would you use him most efficiently? I know math hammer is against it, but I'm pretty set on making Bike Doc and I want to use him in games.

I would position him surrounded by the vehicles and next to your Big mek on bike with KFF.

 TedNugent wrote:

Azhday wrote:
Is there a point to a Biker Doc in a list with a bunch of Boyz in Battlewagon and Trukks? I really like conversions of Doc model on Bike and was looking to make one but I realize that he is expensive point wise. How would you best use him in such list?

Put him in a transport with the boys.

[...]

Best ork shooting in the index is the kustom mega kannon on a purely mathhammer/shooting per point basis.

The new twin linked rules favor space marines. They went from a 1/3 increase in effectiveness to a doubling in effectiveness. To compound thus idiocy they doubled the base shots on the assault cannon so that the space marine equivalents now have an accessible 12 shot S6 platform on every razorback or flyer in their army for a miniscule points increase.

The math doesn't favor any ork shooting units compared to their Sm counterparts unless you're using men guns.

The transport problem with boys still exists but in different ways.

As far as close combat is concerned, my major concern is that every unit can now move and shoot with at worst a -1 bs.

Footslogging boys are moving an average of 8.5 inches a turn. A tactical squad can walk back 6 inches and still shoot effective fire with any weapon out to 24 inches..

The mobility gained from a warboss is a one time average of 3.5 inches on your charge.

That means you could potentially advance into charge range 11 inches and charge 12, but the average is closer to 3.5 inches advance plus 5 inch move and an average of around 8.3 inches if you reroll every result under 3 on your charge. I consider that to be pretty close to optimal.

That means you could depend on perhaps closing 8.5+8.3 inches the turn you charge.

However if terrain or board edge was not a factor the enemy squad can kite you 6 inches a turn resulting in a net of only 3.5 inches average gained a turn by footslogging boys until you get into that 16.8 inch average charge range.

Boys do now have an armor save against some things but I question both the reliability of the painvoy at only a 6+ for units touching a 6 inch radius and also the KFF which seems pretty much as useless as 7th for full 30 man squads.

So in my mind I'm trying to think of a combination of infiltrators like kommandos, da jump weirdboyz, or stormboys to at least fix units in place or draw fire while the main anvil of the greentide rolls slowly down the board. I'm not convinced on the warboss, the painboy, or the KFF Mek for that reason and I'm mostly concerned about mobility.

That said the fact that pistols now effectively doubled the close combat output of standard MEQs appears to have gone unnoticed. Maybe that's trivial, but it's still an ork boy per shooting phase in cc with a naked MEQ squad.

I'm going to second some people's thoughts on stormboys and ask for some more experimentation (please!) from people with weirdboyz da3 jump lists. Hey - a weirdboyz still cheaper than a drop pod....

1) Tac marines can in theory kite Boy mobz for many turns, but if he tries, then just capture objectives and win the game. If you play without missions and objective capture, then any shooty list will always beat any assaulty list. Alternatively you can follow him to the table edge, charge him, and he will not be able to fall back. It is my experience, that most of you Boyz will get to charge something on your second turn.

2) A warboss is absolutely crucial in any infantry heavy Ork list. Both for the waaagh bonus, which makes a huge difference, but also for his morale buff. Don't take less than two.

3) Painboyz and kff-meks are optional, but I think that most people use them. A common loadout is two kff-meks in bikes and Grotsnik with your Weirdboyz.

4) Da Jump is nice, but often the most important psychic powers is smite, warpath and jump, ranked in that order.

5) I think Stormboyz are good, but others have more experience with them. Don't expect them to be faster than ordinary Boyz, as they will probably charge on your second turn. But their ability to charge over conscript-screens, encircle rhinos, blocking disembarkment could be powerful. I don't see any use of using da jump with stormboyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
This made me laugh pretty hard. The irony here is that as it currently stands the Stompa is LESS durable then it was last edition EXCEPT vs Melta. That teamed with them reducing the dakka on the stompa's already gimpy ranged weapons means that if you own one it is going to be sitting on the shelf collecting dust like a giant ugly upside down vase

Yes, pretty much. If you somehow were to put a gorkanaut on top of a battlewagon, then you would have a stompa. More or less the same amount of wounds, damage output, and transport capacity. And a stompa should cost the same as a gorkanaut and battlewagon combined, 550 points or so.

Question for you orkers: How many boyz?

I have 90-ish, mixed slugga and shoota. I am looking at some of these horde lists and I think I need a lot more.

I was seriously considering doubling my force to 180. Is that just too many? It seems it would be hard to pack them all on the board. Is some other number a better sweet spot?

 JimOnMars wrote:
Question for you orkers: How many boyz?

I have 90-ish, mixed slugga and shoota. I am looking at some of these horde lists and I think I need a lot more.

I was seriously considering doubling my force to 180. Is that just too many? It seems it would be hard to pack them all on the board. Is some other number a better sweet spot?

It depends on your overall list. But for a 2000 point green tide list 180 is normal, 150 is probably minimum. 120 is what you have next to a gargantuan squiggoth or 30 tankbustas in trukks. You can deduct some if you field lots of stormboyz and kommandos.

pismakron wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Question for you orkers: How many boyz?

I have 90-ish, mixed slugga and shoota. I am looking at some of these horde lists and I think I need a lot more.

I was seriously considering doubling my force to 180. Is that just too many? It seems it would be hard to pack them all on the board. Is some other number a better sweet spot?

It depends on your overall list. But for a 2000 point green tide list 180 is normal, 150 is probably minimum. 120 is what you have next to a gargantuan squiggoth or 30 tankbustas in trukks. You can deduct some if you field lots of stormboyz and kommandos.

Yeah, if you're going all in on boyz, then 5-6 squads. Leaves plenty of room for HQs.

What are our feelings on power stabbas for groups of Nobz?

 JohnU wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Question for you orkers: How many boyz?

I have 90-ish, mixed slugga and shoota. I am looking at some of these horde lists and I think I need a lot more.

I was seriously considering doubling my force to 180. Is that just too many? It seems it would be hard to pack them all on the board. Is some other number a better sweet spot?

It depends on your overall list. But for a 2000 point green tide list 180 is normal, 150 is probably minimum. 120 is what you have next to a gargantuan squiggoth or 30 tankbustas in trukks. You can deduct some if you field lots of stormboyz and kommandos.

Yeah, if you're going all in on boyz, then 5-6 squads. Leaves plenty of room for HQs.

I am running 90 boyz tomorrow in an ITC Tournament, but I am also running like 40 Kommandos and 40 Stormboyz

 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
What are our feelings on power stabbas for groups of Nobz?

why not?

The math checks out. It's strictly better than choppas slugga, assists against all targets, and critical S 5 base against MEQS.

Only reason not to is big choppas. But power stab should be default.

Only question is whetherr to bring mind in the first place. They'd be vulnerable as hell to the plethora of multi damage attacks in the game.

But if you're going to take them, yeah, power stab should be bare minimum.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Question for you orkers: How many boyz?

I have 90-ish, mixed slugga and shoota. I am looking at some of these horde lists and I think I need a lot more.

I was seriously considering doubling my force to 180. Is that just too many? It seems it would be hard to pack them all on the board. Is some other number a better sweet spot?

I don't like the green tide style and I have 90 boyz too. But if you want to go full footsloggers 6x30 boyz are the standard. Just add tons of characters that buff them and maybe a few toys. I really can't stand the fact that this is the most competitive way to play orks, I'm looking forward to the damn codex, we cannot be forced to play this way

Don't worry when our codex comes out it will be full of nerfs for footslogging and no buffs for anything else. Because buffs are only for Marines and we're filthy xenos

Question:

So far ive only played powerlevel since the new point system drives me nuts. When upgrading a unit of Boyz to have a Nob, how do you price that? Do you just cut a boy off (-6pts) and add a Nob? (+17pts)