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 thenewgozoku wrote:
We will not get a codex this year so why wait?

They can start it but supposedly the chapter approved (out next month) book should have updates to most codecs that haven't been released yet. There is also some fw datasheets for orks that are due anytime now. Hopefully the chapterapproved book has some meaningful point changes and rules tweaks for orks.

If it is like general's handbook don't expect much for rules tweaks. True for points though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
At the old making orks competitive post we used to have a nice colour coded summary on the first page with unit ranking and a small description. Can we do it here somehow?

I currently don't have the time, but if someone makes one that is not heavily biased and actually reflects the content of this thread, I will add it to the first page.


[

Why don't we start with HQ first.


Gaz is definitely gold. for me he always make things work
Warboss in MA bluish. good tank gives waaagh lame movement and don't hit hard enough
Warboss eavy armour blue. cheap version for waaagh and better with BC
Warboss with bike red. More expensive warboss with eavy armour.
Weirdboy gold. Cheap support.
Badruk bluish. Good on paper but only 3 shots with 4 ballistic.

These are the ones I have tried so far

I'd rank Zhadsnark as the #1 HQ by a mile. He has the best threat range, shooting, CC ability, and survivability of any HQ by far. I think 8th is all about the auras, but his individual capability is so good as to be an exception.

The next tier down would be the Biker Boss and Weirdboy. Weirdboy is currently the best transport we have, both in terms of cost and delivery. Biker Boss can keep up with Stormboyz or is still fairly capable of going off on his own. Raw speed is its own form of durability right now.

Just below I would put Ghaz, just because he has to rely on a transport of some kind. Mork (or Gork) help anything he charges though.

I just kinda lump them all together after that. Foot boss is cheap, but will be going in some kind of transport which kinda negates that. KFF bike Mek is fine for ~100 points, but YOU CAN NOT BUILD A LIST AROUND A 5++ KEEPING YOUR ARMY ALIVE. It's nice to have but he is not your green savior.

MA Boss is too slow and too expensive even before adding the necessary delivery mechanism.

Zagstruk has performed beyond my (admittedly low expectations). Keeps Stormboyz around during T1-2 shooting, then goes off and does fairly well in CC. For the points I was pretty happy

That's been my HQ experience so far.

I didnt have any issues getting Ghaz into combat by footslogging.
Adv + Charge makes them almost as fast as transports. Assuming you dont roll like ass that is.
I ran Zagstruk once, but i didnt have any stormboyz. Even then he was actually pretty lethal since he can dive high up gunlines outta nowhere and usually rip them a new one. My stormboyz are currently in a green sea (well...piss-yellow sea since i use Totally Awesome) so i couldnt use them lol

My Ork HQ always overproduce.

I have used Ghaz in my last 2 games. His shooting has never done jack. He always uppercuts someone to death. Warboss with just a BC (with or without bike) is pretty cheap for a good hard hit.

Big Mek with KFF won me the game I played today. I played against a knight list. The mission was the relic. My ork boyz squad hid behind the killa kans with Big Mek w/ KFF. The KFF saved the kans from getting blown up and he fixed one of them. Then the boys grabbed the relic and ran. He couldn't do enough damage with his shooting.

Weirdboy, I was skeptical, but he's cheap and effective. I have not tried the rest but orks don't have bad HQ. Just not ridiculous HQ like Girlyman and the like.

 thenewgozoku wrote:



Gaz is definitely gold. for me he always make things work
Warboss in MA bluish. good tank gives waaagh lame movement and don't hit hard enough
Warboss eavy armour blue. cheap version for waaagh and better with BC
Warboss with bike red. More expensive warboss with eavy armour.
Weirdboy gold. Cheap support.
Badruk bluish. Good on paper but only 3 shots with 4 ballistic.

These are the ones I have tried so far

The biker boss is quite better than a footslogging one, which is also good.

Warboss in MA and badrukk are red IMHO. Flash gitz are bad even with his re-rolls so I don't see his usefulness, he could have been nice, but still poor overall, with a re-roll of failed to hit rolls of ones for any orks units, not only flash gitz.

Big mek with KFF on foot is decent, the SAG one could be useful too but more a fun choice than a competitive one. The biker mek with KFF is very good.

Snikrot has nice stats but his kommandos need a buff in their save to be competitive. Zagstruck is certainly not an auto-include but solid.

Ghaz, zhad and weirdboyz are amazing.

And there we have the issue with trying to codify the new book.

I think people need to remember something very important.

Some people are plain lucky/unlucky. And with Orks, that counts for a LOT. (Seriously- I remember a story on the Tomb Kings forum about one of the members- he and his friend scientifically proved that he was about 40% more likely to fail dice rolls than the average person- high, low, in between... It's a thing.)

And Luck plays a lot into what units are more or less useful to an individual player.

If you're lucky, and find yourself rolling lots of 5's and 6's for shooting, then Ork shooting is phenomenal, since a lot of it is decently powerful, and we have a lot of shots. However, if you're not so lucky with the shooting, it stinks because we don't have the mitigations of a high BS or lots of re-rolls.

And so, in that case, sheer Numbers is more useful, as are Melee attacks and high speed units. Those features of the army allow us to better control, without random chance involved, the performance of our army.

Yesterday i played a game with a list (3000pts) build around the stompa.
3 KFF mek on bike
3 battlewagon with 9 boyz, 1 nob and 9 tankbustas each
2 deffkoptas
Gorkanaut
The stompa.

Everything performed heroic because of good throws, but I lost the game because how the stompa was unable to do anything. The naut and the tankbustas outclassed the stompa by alot.

During the game my opponent took control of the stompa canon with his necron hq 4 times, so the model saw alot of action but didn't hit a thing. Not on my turns, not on his turns. Only in cc he was owkey. But not enough attacks to wipe a complete necron squad in one turn so it was a huge dissapointment for me. On the list, put the stompa in dark red.

I hope they fix it a bit. Grott gunners and more shots less random(6+d6) would be great...

Wyrdboy: Cheap, very good psipowers, our only source for denying the witch and fun to play. Massive improvement of flexibility and on of the top 4 HQ`s.

KFF Mek: Safed my ass all day long, repaired a lot of stuff and was always more than worth his points. Even better on bike, too bad he can`t take a grot companion though. Another of the top 4 HQ`s.

Regular Big Mek: No bike, KFF or SAG? Go for a regular Mek or two with grot oiler to save the points if you wanna repair stuff. Still our cheapest HQ but not by much so you will probably pay some extra points to get other ones.

Ghazghull: Have only used the regular Warbosses for my Bad Moons but he clearly is a beast. His support is amazing but he costs 2-3x the points of a regular WB.

Warboss: Went from CC monster to supporter, which he does excellent. All three options have their pros and cons. Regular one for under 70 points? Nice. Mega armour is slow as hell but has the highest durability & best style. Twice the points is hard since his buff is the same. Bika Warboss gets easy where you need it and goes for under 100 points with medium durability. Gets easier killed while biking ahead. Another top 4 HQ because i play shooty and just need a cheap Waaaagh for conter attacks. In green tides of course Ghaz may take (t)his place.

Big Mek with SAG: The shock attack really took a hit in 8th edition, with 2D6 shots it would have been fine though. Really sad they took all the fun factor out of it - made a hilarious always hitting all-or-nothing HQ to a poor random shooter. Played well in my shooty lists as almost impossible to kill warlord plus gets to shoot 5-7 times unharmed at least. With 100 points and 60" he performs ok for me, don`t see him doing well in other builds.

Kaptin Badrukk: Not too expensive, nice buff if you play a lot of Flash Gitz and his grot twin linked shooting is ok. What really bugs me is that he can`t affect Flash Gits he is embarked with in a battle waggon. (Where i put them most of the time.) But hey, he has 3+/5++!

Mad Dok Grotsnik: Don`t really see him doing better than a regular Dok except you really want him in CC. + Clan rules. (Warbanner, Waaagh,etc.)

Boss Zagstruk: Amazing profile and a true bargain. Not fielded him yet but looks like he is performing well out there. Belongs definitely in top 4. Stormboys being that good atm makes him even better.

Boss Snikrot: Even cheaper and does his job. Love the model and his background but have yet to field him in 8th edition.

Zhadsnark da Rippa: Far better Warboss on bike for evil sunz with superior Claw and only 11 points more? To bad i don`t have evil Sunz.

Ork Mek Boss Guzgob: Slightly better but more expensive Goff Mek with no options and his Mek arms look fun. Don`t have him but might just get him to play his awesome model as regular Big Mek.


Personal list playing Bad Moons only as shooty orks:

KFF Mek
Wyrdboy
SAG Big Mek
Badrukk
Warboss
Warboss in Mega Armour
Warboss on Bike
Regular Big Mek
All other unique Clan HQ`s


List by utility:

Wyrdboy
Ghazghull / regular Warboss
KFF Big Mek (on Bike)
Zagstruk
Snikrot / Zhadsnark
Warboss on Bike
Warboss in MA
SAG Big Mek
Badrukk
Grotznik
Mek Boss Guzgob
Regular Mek


Edit: GW better brings back Zogwort! Need just one more reason to rebuild a WHFB 40k Snakebites army.

 Jidmah wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
At the old making orks competitive post we used to have a nice colour coded summary on the first page with unit ranking and a small description. Can we do it here somehow?

I currently don't have the time, but if someone makes one that is not heavily biased and actually reflects the content of this thread, I will add it to the first page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oOSkyOo wrote:
The first Ork list on BAO was on rank 11 overall. It had a loot of shooty units: 2x Mek Guns, Flash Gitz, 2x Tank Busta.

Spoiler:

Orks: Vanguard Detachment - 463 Punkte
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Big Mek on Warbike
+ Kustom force field, Choppa -> 20 Pkt.
- - - > 101 Punkte


*************** 3 Elite ***************
Mek
+ Slugga, Choppa -> 0 Pkt.
- - - > 22 Punkte


10 Tankbustas
- - - > 170 Punkte


10 Tankbustas
- - - > 170 Punkte


Orks: Spearhead Detachment - 1119 Punkte
*************** 2 HQ ***************
Boss Snikrot
- - - > 69 Punkte


Wyrdboy
- - - > 62 Punkte


*************** 1 Troops ***************
30 Boyz, 26 x Choppa & Slugga, 3 x Rokkit launcha
+ Boss Nob, Slugga, Power klaw -> 25 Pkt.
- - - > 241 Punkte


*************** 4 Heavy Support ***************
10 Flash Gitz, 7 x Ammo Runt
- - - > 298 Punkte


3 Mek Gunz, 3 x Kustom mega-kannon
- - - > 144 Punkte


3 Mek Gunz, 3 x Kustom mega-kannon
- - - > 144 Punkte


Battlewagon
- - - > 161 Punkte

Orks: SuperHeavy - 414Punkte
*************** LOW ***************

Gargantuan Squiggoth, 2x Twin Big Shoota, 2x Big Zappa
--- >414

What an odd list. I'd really love to hear the reasoning for choices like solo Snikort or character mek. Flash gits in a gargantuan squiggoth actually makes kind of sense.

Snikrot is our best objective camping unit. In cover he is equivalent to 6 marines against damage 1 weapons. He cannot be targeted unless by snipers or if he is closest. He is great if you get first turn in relic.

HQ:
Ghaz= (The Larger the Game the Better He is) Still overpriced for the buffage
Warboss MA (Its the Price point)
Warboss PK
Warboss BC Does need a Ride
Warboss Biker BC
Warboss Biker PK
ZhardSnark
Big Mek MA KFF
Big Mek KFF to protect Gunz or Lootas
Big Mek SAG
Big Mek Bike KFF
Big Mek on Bike SAG
Wierdboy Da Jump
Wierdboy Warpath
Wierdboy Eadbanger
Snikrot Situational
ZagStruck Ok on his own Must take with multiple groups of stormboyz
Badrukk If taking Flashgitz he becomes green
BuzzGob His rules are an issue

Troops
Choppa Boyz Gotta Ave em with a Nob +BC
Shoota Boyz Usefull and have a function
Gretchin Situational

Elite
Burna
Kommandoes
Tank Bustas -Needs a vehicle
Nobz - Works with Da Jump or a Vehicle (Mixed non shooting load out primarrily BC + Killsaw)
MegaNobz Normal
Meganobz Killsaw
Biker Nobz
Bannawavva Ride him with da Nobz Sub 1500 lists not worth the points
Painboy - Needed with weirdboy jumping crew
Painboy on bike
Mad Dok Grotznik Situational
Runtherd if taking several large groups of grotz need one
Mek situational good to put with KMK's

Heavy
Gorkanaught
Morkanaught-KFF Situational
Meka Dread-KFF Situational cheaper than mork
DeffDread
Killa Kan
Big GunZ-Kannon Lobba ZappGun
Mek Gunz-KMB Traktor Bubble Chukka Smasha
BW+Supa Kannon
BW + DR
Lifta Wagon
BigTrakk-no big gun- more survivable than trukk kinda pricey
Big Trakk + SuperSkorcha Will get its points back and then some Best spot for Tankbustas or small group of nobz
Big Trakk + other Big Gun
Big Trakk + Super Kannon
Squiggoth
Lootas
Flashgitz

Fast Attack
Deffkoptas
WarTrakk
Buggies
Skorcha Trakk
Stormboyz
WarBikers
Grot Tanks
Grot MegaTank

Fliers
DakkaJet loaded
Blitza Bomber
Burna Bomber
WazBom BlastaJet (if running multiple Jets take one with KFF + 2 SS for extra protection)

LoW
Stompa Never get its points back
Kustum Stompa Even Worse
Gargantuan Squiggoth
Killtank great place for some BC Warbosses Killsaw Nobz and a Bannawavva (none shooty groups)

Dedicated Transports
Trukk
Chinork Kopta

May need further Editing

Boyz, stormboyz, ghaz, bikerbosses, wierdboyz are green. The rest depends on what you want.

Why deaf dread is green?

Was thinking of a ridiculous idea to come up with a new list for Orkz that is competitive and Surprising your enemy a lot.

2,000pts Orkz. 2 Detachments, Battalion and Vanguard

Battalion Detachment:

HQS:

Big Mek on Bike, KFF
Weirdboy, Da Jump
Snikrot

TROOPS:

Boyz x29 Nob w/BC
Boyz x29 Nob w/BC
Grots x10
Grots x10

FAST ATTACK:

Stormboyz x 19 Nob
Stormboyz x 19 Nob
DeffKoptas x 2 Bomms Big Shootas

VANGUARD DETACHMENT:

HQS:

Weirdboy, Warpath

ELITES:

Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas


LOL So this is just a gimmick list for fun that I want to try. Basically the point is to place your grots holding objectives, put your stormboyz on the weakest flank supported by the Big Mek and have the boyz positioned nearby the "Da Jump" Weirdboy so he can jump them close to the enemies lines on turn 1 and turn 2. After all of that is placed, at the end of your 1st movement phase you have 6 units of 15 Kommandos totaling 90 Kommandos appear 9inches from their lines and 2 Deff Koptas. With Da Jump you will have 120 Boyz within 9inches of your opponent turn 1. So with 8 units you should get at least 4-5 into CC on your turn which will tie up his lines at the least for turn 1-2 and by then your stormboyz and 2nd mob of boyz will appear and really pile on the pain

So what do you guys think?

SemperMortis wrote:
Was thinking of a ridiculous idea to come up with a new list for Orkz that is competitive and Surprising your enemy a lot.

2,000pts Orkz. 2 Detachments, Battalion and Vanguard

Battalion Detachment:

HQS:

Big Mek on Bike, KFF
Weirdboy, Da Jump
Snikrot

TROOPS:

Boyz x29 Nob w/BC
Boyz x29 Nob w/BC
Grots x10
Grots x10

FAST ATTACK:

Stormboyz x 19 Nob
Stormboyz x 19 Nob
DeffKoptas x 2 Bomms Big Shootas

VANGUARD DETACHMENT:

HQS:

Weirdboy, Warpath

ELITES:

Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas
Kommandos x 14 Nob an 2 Burnas


LOL So this is just a gimmick list for fun that I want to try. Basically the point is to place your grots holding objectives, put your stormboyz on the weakest flank supported by the Big Mek and have the boyz positioned nearby the "Da Jump" Weirdboy so he can jump them close to the enemies lines on turn 1 and turn 2. After all of that is placed, at the end of your 1st movement phase you have 6 units of 15 Kommandos totaling 90 Kommandos appear 9inches from their lines and 2 Deff Koptas. With Da Jump you will have 120 Boyz within 9inches of your opponent turn 1. So with 8 units you should get at least 4-5 into CC on your turn which will tie up his lines at the least for turn 1-2 and by then your stormboyz and 2nd mob of boyz will appear and really pile on the pain

So what do you guys think?

Well... I mean, it's just a variation on the theme of "horde of boyz is orks only viable choice right now". It unfortunately doesn't do much to stop the current problem with orks.

HOWEVER it -is- a variation, and to me it looks like a fun one. I'd much prefer your idea of loads of kommando orks popping out of the bushes, than running a footslogging horde (or spending a fortune in points on useless trukks).

I'd give it a , and in fact makes me want to sort myself out a kommando squad.

I like to see you're thinking outside the box. I'd love to hear the game goes.

Boyz One of the best units in the game. The math favours sluggas, but shootas works surprisingly well and gives you some flexibility. If you are struggling with orks, bring more boyz.
Ghazkgull An absolute killing machine and surprisingly durable. Works well in mechanized lists as well as with foot infantry.
Warboss The buffs provided by a warboss are crucial for boy blobs, and his damage output is quite decent. The Big Choppa is a good option for a Warboss, as is a Warbike, but leave the Mega Armor at home.
Weirdboy An auto-include. The weirdboy can reliable deny Magnus, is a smite machine, and has access to two good powers in Warpath and Da Jump.
Big Mek An important part of most ork lists, but not an auto-include. Always give him a KFF. A Warbike is also a good option as the KFF is very dependent on positioning. Don't waste points on klaws, saws, blastas or the stupid shokk attack gun.
Painboy The 6+ save is pretty weak, but his abillity to heal characters is very useful. Healing weirdboyz and Ghaz will earn his points back, and with four attacks he has better damage output than a Big Mek.
Grotsnik A better painboy that only costs 9 more points. He is pretty tough with dual FNP saves.
Tankbustas Very decent damage output, but they are way too squishy to use on foot. Works well in mechanized lists. When playing with Powerlevels these are extremely undercosted, and you can field a horde of only tankbustas.
Nobz They sort of work like more concentrated boyz, but somewhat less efficiently. They are probably an important part of most mechanized lists. Ammo runts are worth it for the ablative wounds.
Stormboyz Good for bracketing vehicles so they cannot fall back. Also, you don't lose out on the Greentide bonus by taking lots of min-sized squads. When playing with powerlevels Stormboyz are an absolute steal.
Banner Nob Provides a nice buff for all Ork lists, but he is pretty expensive. He is good with walkers, and practically mandatory for Kans.
Kommandos Good for grabbing objectives. Can also make first turn charges. They have a very usefull cover bonus, but they are kitted out for close combat, which is difficult to reconcile. Would be better if they could take shootas.
Battlewagon Good with hard-top and a deff-rolla. You can add som big-shootqas if you like, but the killkannon is way over-priced. A bit situational, but the deffrolla will absolutely murder culexus assassins.
Trukk Suprisingly durable and our go-to transport for anything shooty (tankbustas)
Gorkanaut Very tough and a beast in close-combat. The shooting is kind of meh, especially when you are advancing or fighting in close combat.
Zaggstruk Extremely good if you take multiple full-sized squads of stormboyz. Otherwise leave him at home.
Lootas Good damage output, but very squishy and needs to remain stationary. An auto-include if you take a fortification, which you probably never will.
Deff dread Very good damage output, but the dread is very squishy and badly needs KFF protection. Too slow to reliably charge on turn two. They are useless for shooting.
Morkanaut Like the Gorkanaut but with less damage output and a gun that fries itself.
Killa Kan Reasonably durable and shooty, but needs lots of baby sitting: A Banner Nob to make them usefull in close combat and a Bik Mek with a KFF to make them survive. They also need a warboss or command-points to help with morale. Oh, and they don't benefit from 'Ere We Go.
Kannon + KMK The artillery pieces are squishy and has a mediocre damage output. The Kannon and KMK are almost average. The rest are worse.
Dakkajet It can do plenty of damage, but it is easy to kill and quite dear. Hope for first turn.
Deffkopta The bomb is good, and the ability to assault things that are behind a screen can be game-winning. On the downside they are expensive and squishy and do too little.
Burnas Too expensive, and with the weakest flamer in the game.
Gretchin The worst statline in the game yet as expensive as a conscript.
Runtherd Useless because grots are useless. Only take him to fill a slot.
Mini mek He has a cool model, but he really has no purpose. Waste of points.
Flash Gitz Very expensive and very squishy. They badly need a transport but they also need to remain stationary.
Stompa It is a gorkanaut boosted by 50% but with the cost boosted by +200%. Would be worth it with a base cost of around 550 points.

You missed Meganobz... probably on purpose LULZ

v0iddrgn wrote:

Spoiler:

pismakron wrote:
Boyz One of the best units in the game. The math favours sluggas, but shootas works surprisingly well and gives you some flexibility. If you are struggling with orks, bring more boyz.
Ghazkgull An absolute killing machine and surprisingly durable. Works well in mechanized lists as well as with foot infantry.
Warboss The buffs provided by a warboss are crucial for boy blobs, and his damage output is quite decent. The Big Choppa is a good option for a Warboss, as is a Warbike, but leave the Mega Armor at home.
Weirdboy An auto-include. The weirdboy can reliable deny Magnus, is a smite machine, and has access to two good powers in Warpath and Da Jump.
Big Mek An important part of most ork lists, but not an auto-include. Always give him a KFF. A Warbike is also a good option as the KFF is very dependent on positioning. Don't waste points on klaws, saws, blastas or the stupid shokk attack gun.
Painboy The 6+ save is pretty weak, but his abillity to heal characters is very useful. Healing weirdboyz and Ghaz will earn his points back, and with four attacks he has better damage output than a Big Mek.
Grotsnik A better painboy that only costs 9 more points. He is pretty tough with dual FNP saves.
Tankbustas Very decent damage output, but they are way too squishy to use on foot. Works well in mechanized lists. When playing with Powerlevels these are extremely undercosted, and you can field a horde of only tankbustas.
Nobz They sort of work like more concentrated boyz, but somewhat less efficiently. They are probably an important part of most mechanized lists. Ammo runts are worth it for the ablative wounds.
Stormboyz Good for bracketing vehicles so they cannot fall back. Also, you don't lose out on the Greentide bonus by taking lots of min-sized squads. When playing with powerlevels Stormboyz are an absolute steal.
Banner Nob Provides a nice buff for all Ork lists, but he is pretty expensive. He is good with walkers, and practically mandatory for Kans.
Kommandos Good for grabbing objectives. Can also make first turn charges. They have a very usefull cover bonus, but they are kitted out for close combat, which is difficult to reconcile. Would be better if they could take shootas.
Battlewagon Good with hard-top and a deff-rolla. You can add som big-shootqas if you like, but the killkannon is way over-priced. A bit situational, but the deffrolla will absolutely murder culexus assassins.
Trukk Suprisingly durable and our go-to transport for anything shooty (tankbustas)
Gorkanaut Very tough and a beast in close-combat. The shooting is kind of meh, especially when you are advancing or fighting in close combat.
Zaggstruk Extremely good if you take multiple full-sized squads of stormboyz. Otherwise leave him at home.
Lootas Good damage output, but very squishy and needs to remain stationary. An auto-include if you take a fortification, which you probably never will.
Deff dread Very good damage output, but the dread is very squishy and badly needs KFF protection. Too slow to reliably charge on turn two. They are useless for shooting.
Morkanaut Like the Gorkanaut but with less damage output and a gun that fries itself.
Killa Kan Reasonably durable and shooty, but needs lots of baby sitting: A Banner Nob to make them usefull in close combat and a Bik Mek with a KFF to make them survive. They also need a warboss or command-points to help with morale. Oh, and they don't benefit from 'Ere We Go.
Kannon + KMK The artillery pieces are squishy and has a mediocre damage output. The Kannon and KMK are almost average. The rest are worse.
Dakkajet It can do plenty of damage, but it is easy to kill and quite dear. Hope for first turn.
Deffkopta The bomb is good, and the ability to assault things that are behind a screen can be game-winning. On the downside they are expensive and squishy and do too little.
Burnas Too expensive, and with the weakest flamer in the game.
Gretchin The worst statline in the game yet as expensive as a conscript.
Runtherd Useless because grots are useless. Only take him to fill a slot.
Mini mek He has a cool model, but he really has no purpose. Waste of points.
Flash Gitz Very expensive and very squishy. They badly need a transport but they also need to remain stationary.
Stompa It is a gorkanaut boosted by 50% but with the cost boosted by +200%. Would be worth it with a base cost of around 550 points.

You missed Meganobz... probably on purpose LULZ

To add to your list...

Blitza-Bommer Pretty much our only source of reliable mortal wounds. It's fast enough that you'll get some off on turn 1, perfect for squads of elites that need some thinning. Just don't expect it to live for long.
Meganobz Horrible damage output, average one marine killed per nob, horrible cost, and horrible survivability due to still not having a built in invuln save. Their speed mandates they take a transport, only adding to their high cost.

Though I disagree with you on grots. The best thing grots can be used for is deepstrike denial. Take three squads for 90 points to fill in any gaps in your deployment zone to stop deepstriking. Not to mention, if you're bringing a lot of HQs, you can bring 3 squads of gretchin to split up your force org into two battalion detachments to get +6 cp.

God I seriously hope they know how bad the ork index is on a competitive level. Good thing about having to wait is that they potentially get more time to realize how garbage 80 percent of it is.

Its gonna suck if they already have it written.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
God I seriously hope they know how bad the ork index is on a competitive level. Good thing about having to wait is that they potentially get more time to realize how garbage 80 percent of it is.

Its gonna suck if they already have it written.

Honestly the green tide formation has decent success. Problem is it's pretty much the only way to play orks right now, even in a casual setting.

I just want my battlewagon/trukk rush back.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
God I seriously hope they know how bad the ork index is on a competitive level. Good thing about having to wait is that they potentially get more time to realize how garbage 80 percent of it is.

Its gonna suck if they already have it written.

Honestly the green tide formation has decent success. Problem is it's pretty much the only way to play orks right now, even in a casual setting.

I just want my battlewagon/trukk rush back.

Cool so we got 1 "decent" list thats hardly flexible and and involves 3 of the most basic units in faction. The boss the boy and the psyker.

Honestly I think all transports are wildly overcosted so hopefully we will see some rhinos and trukk/wagon points cost reductions. Just about Everything in the ork dex is points inefficent and or lacking. Usually you can rate a unit by damage output/ survivability/ mobility(ability to inflict damage on units despite LOS/evasion/grabbing points etc). Many units have 2 out of three of these things and do them well for the points. Few have all 3. Almost everything in the ork dex struggels to achieve 2 and commonly has 1.

Pretty sure the ork dex was slapped together to get the product out and not how they think orks should function as a faction (which is pretty much nonfunctioning). I hope...

Eh in a casual setting as long as i dont face that one donkey-cave that fields a girlyman gunline in a CASUAL setting i can get qutie a few things to work wonderfully. Its the girlyman lascannon/autocannon spam that shreds everyting except boyz

Which dont get me wrong im glad boyz are terrifying in numbers again. But running pure boyz is stale, not really any better than a solid gunline (even the girlyman lists still have a plane or something that moves 10-12").

Actually the whole walker thing is amusing. If you dont have a ton of anti-armor they tend to feel immortal, but if you have a ton of anti-armor and the KFF doesnt save your skin they fold quick. First time i faced the girlyman list he literally took out 3 dreads and 4 of my 6 kanz in 1 round...

Speaking of walkers, can somebody explain to me how the "ramshackle monstrosity" rule for meka dreads works?

Like if I'm hit with a squad of devastators with lascannons, do I roll my d6 dice one at a time after they've rolled their d6 wounds and "degrade" the RM save after every failure? Or does one successful RM save negate all d6 unsaved wounds? Or does the save "degrade" only after the shooting from that unit has been entirely resolved?

If it's the first option, the rule feels useless, but if it's something else it could be quite good.

In casual and semicompetitive metas a list built around trukks and BWs is still decent as long as you don't face lists with fewer drops than you and tons of anti tank.

For example drukhari with many lances are common but they must have 10ish drops since their units are cheap, AM with artillery and deep striking scions won't go first either, and if you rush your vehicles for a turn without suffering any damage this kind of list can even perform.

But even greentides can be crippled against lists that fear hordes and bring lots of anti infantry weapons.

After my tournament this weekend I'm of the opinion that orks are very match-up dependent even with our best lists. I ran a mixed list with Boyz, commandos, 2 Gorkanauts, and a Battlewagon.

Game 1 I faced some forgeworld tank (Cerberus or something) in a chaos army with magnus, and got stomped because that 1 tank killed all my vehicles in 2 turns, and my 80 boyz were not enough to carry the game against rubric marines and magnus. This game would have been an easy win with horde orks, as he would not have had the fire power to put down 180+ orks.

Game 2 I faced ynnari, and won in a landslide as I was able to get to combat with most of my stuff and trap him in his deployment zone. Horde orks would have done fine in this match as well, though it would have taken a while to get into the fight, and likely would have only played 3 turns.

Game 3 was a close loss, against Chaos (pox walker spam with malefic lords and exalted flamers and magnus). Pox walkers are a hard counter to ork horde list, they win an attrition war especially when backed with a ton of smite. If not for my gorkanauts this game would not have been close as I needed their shooting and CC ability to take down the pox walkers. Also getting them to explode on your opponent helps a lot when they are in range of multiple character models.

So even out "best" list has some hard counters that might appear. If the meta is anti-horde then that list is not viable. It is very good if people are running things like lascannon spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaptainCarrots wrote:
Speaking of walkers, can somebody explain to me how the "ramshackle monstrosity" rule for meka dreads works?

Like if I'm hit with a squad of devastators with lascannons, do I roll my d6 dice one at a time after they've rolled their d6 wounds and "degrade" the RM save after every failure? Or does one successful RM save negate all d6 unsaved wounds? Or does the save "degrade" only after the shooting from that unit has been entirely resolved?

If it's the first option, the rule feels useless, but if it's something else it could be quite good.

My impression was that you would roll them 1 at a time. It is really a pretty bad rule.

I thought poxwalkers were pretty lame without Typhus, no?

pismakron wrote:
I thought poxwalkers were pretty lame without Typhus, no?

Yeah, but if they have multiple buffs they win an attrition war with orks pretty easily. I was facing a list with Typhus, Fabius bile, Magnus, and some other Death Guard character.

So they were all S/T 4, hitting on 3s or 4s. One squad was at -1 to hit, they were re-rolling 1s from typhus. The big issue is that for every ork they kill they spawn another model. So you wipe out their initial screen then get counter charged, and they get 30+ new pox walkers. SO you grind each other down, but they win because of the extra durability and spawning.

Breng77 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
I thought poxwalkers were pretty lame without Typhus, no?

Yeah, but if they have multiple buffs they win an attrition war with orks pretty easily. I was facing a list with Typhus, Fabius bile, Magnus, and some other Death Guard character.

So they were all S/T 4, hitting on 3s or 4s. One squad was at -1 to hit, they were re-rolling 1s from typhus. The big issue is that for every ork they kill they spawn another model. So you wipe out their initial screen then get counter charged, and they get 30+ new pox walkers. SO you grind each other down, but they win because of the extra durability and spawning.

I think it is necrosius that grants the reroll of 1. And I think the best way of dealing with poxwalker spam when running a green tide list is to simply bring more shootas, and advance over a wide front, so the buffs only spread to part of his army. Typhus is more than 160 points, so he is not exactly cheap.

pismakron wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
I thought poxwalkers were pretty lame without Typhus, no?

Yeah, but if they have multiple buffs they win an attrition war with orks pretty easily. I was facing a list with Typhus, Fabius bile, Magnus, and some other Death Guard character.

So they were all S/T 4, hitting on 3s or 4s. One squad was at -1 to hit, they were re-rolling 1s from typhus. The big issue is that for every ork they kill they spawn another model. So you wipe out their initial screen then get counter charged, and they get 30+ new pox walkers. SO you grind each other down, but they win because of the extra durability and spawning.

I think it is necrosius that grants the reroll of 1. And I think the best way of dealing with poxwalker spam when running a green tide list is to simply bring more shootas, and advance over a wide front, so the buffs only spread to part of his army. Typhus is more than 160 points, so he is not exactly cheap.

Right but that is not the current wisdom on horde orks. What I am seeing is Choppa boyz + storm boyz for the most part, which don't really have shootin as an option.

As for a wide front, if you need to assault to do damage, that doesn't work too well, because with large pox walker squads it is too easy for him to get them all in the 7" bubble to get his buffs.