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I've tried walker wall yesterday. It was a fun casual game - the opponent knew ahead that i'd bring a lot of walkers so that he would bring enough anti-tank weaponry to make it more fun. He plays necrons and they kinda struggle vs skew lists atm cause specialised stuff is pretty overpriced. Anywayz, he broungs some fun units.

Orks had:
KFF Big Mek with a fixer runt
Badrukk with 3 ammo runts
Banner nob
Gorkanaught
2 Deff Dreads with big shootas
3 Kanz with KMB
3 Kanz with KMB
3 Kanz with Bigshootas
Zzap gun
Zzap Gun
Kannon

Necrons had:
Overlord
Cryptekh
10 Warriors
5 carbine (? s5 that gets extra hits on 6-s to-hit) immortals
5 blaster (? s5 ap2) immortals
Spider with a twin lazcannon
Artillery ark with d3 s10 shots and a million s4 shots
3 Lazcannon destroyers
Monolith

No mission - just wanted to see the unit effectiveness in vacuum. The opponent got 1-st turn and did a couple wounds to kanz here and there and halved the gork's wounds. Orks slogged forward, shot some stuff - dealt a couple wounds to a monolith, killed 3 immortals and 1 heavy destroyer. D3 on Badrukk is great. Though, he overheated and dealt a wound to himself. Moving and shooting overheated heavy weapon is not very safe. Kanz managed to charge a monolith but 12 attacks only resulted in one successful wound. 3 damage in mellee.
Mek fixed 4 wounds to a gork. However, it still got destroyed next turn and i had to spend a CP to re-roll explosion in the middle of my army. They also killed a kanz near the monolith and one-shot a dread. Orks than proceeded to move forward. Badrukk - now stationary - shot down 2 heavy destroyers all by himself. the rest of the army finished off 2 immortals (baically, necrons didn't pass a single 4+ rp out of 4), than shot at a monolith and brought it down to 9 wounds that than got stripped away by 2 kanz and a dread. Only the banner nob'z +1 to hit helped here. Than necrons killed around 4 kanz and dealt a couple wounds to a dread. Badrukk, remaining kanz (i think around 4), dread and big gunz shot 8 wounds from a stalker - the big spider - thing and charged warriors killing 3 after RP. Necrons than shot down a kan, charged mek and dealt 3 wounds to him. Orks shot down a couple warriors, badrukk overheated for 3 mortal wounds while doing so, dealt a couple wounds to an ark in mellee and killed Cryptekh. Crons killed a couple kanz and big mek. Than orks finished off an artillery ark.
In the end necrons had an overlord, warriors and an immortal squad on the 2-d floor of a ruin and orks had a kan, a half-dead dread, half-dead banner nob, half-dead Badrukk and big gunz. Was a fun game and walkers did pretty well. Better than i had anticipated. Though, it was a fun game and necrons brought mediocre stuff, so walkers were on par.

Some insights:
- KFF is not really all that great for walkers as 3+ usually gets downgraded to 5+ or 6+ anywayz. But it's not too bad for 20 pts. Saved a couple wounds in the end.
- Mek's fixing ability is great in a walker wall list. He fixed around 10 wounds over the course of the game.
- Badrukk can be pretty effective - though he needs some time to get in position. I used Gork for the extra 3" move. It helped him to remain stationary for the rest of the game...and still happily overheat himself for 4 mortal wounds. Overall he payed off across the game.
- Kanz aren't too bad. Their shooting is passable. Their mellee is ok if you get a banner nob in position. Still overpriced and don't deal enough damage but they at least tend to survive decently enough.
- Deff dread is just really underwhelming for his points. Not fast enough, not durable enough, not shooty enough, not choppy enough. He'd be ok for 100 pts - not 130.
- Gorkanaught got focused down, so i don't know how good it really is. All i can tell is that it's shooting is very bad for it's price. 18 t8 wounds sould like a lot but it's really not when the opponent has AT.
- Big gunz are ok for points. They managed to pay off. I liked Zzap gunz more than kannonz. They look cooler. But i think they're about the same level of effectiveness. Kannon is probably better overall but Zzaps have a chance to deal 3 mortal wounds - albeit not a high one.

koooaei, how many points was that list?

1500

Been playing only Orks since 8h released.

The fundamental problem with every Ork unit is that they are all over costed for what they do. If you compare any Ork unit to comparable units in other lists the Orks cost more and have worse statline. This is further compounded by Ork wargear costing too much or having non linear costs compared to other units.( E.g. twin big shoota is cost of (big shoota*2+2), Marine twin heavy bolter is cost of heavy bolter x2, quad heavy bolter is cost of ((heavy bolter-1)*4) WTH)

Boyz should be a pt less, Grots should be 1 to 2 pts.

Most vehicles and walkers should drop by 1/4th in cost

Big choppas should be 5 pts
Powerklaw 12 pts
killsaw 15 pts

Kustom shoota 2 pts
Normalize twin linked cost to be equal to every other faction, ie doesn't cost extra points over double base weapon cost.

All of the ranged weapons need a points decrease.

BS5+ and assault/ heavy weapons are in a special place. A bad special place, it's not so hard for an unit to get a buff that gives -2 to hit, and Orks are one of the few factions that get little to no access to bonuses to hit, coupled with BS 5+ this results in many not uncommon situations where Orks cannot hit regardless of what they roll. This makes shooting weapons much less valuable for the faction overall.

Your experience sums up mine as well Koooaei, though in my instance the KFF paid off dividends since my opponent was using melta weaponry instead.

The Deff Dred, even with skorchas for shooting (which can be counter-intuitive if you're trying to charge a unit) is fairly lucklustre. They should really give it a rule where it can advance and charge or just be affected by a Warboss' WAAAGH!.

I'm surprised to hear how effective Badrukk is though, given that I haven't used him in a game yet. Do you think he's only worth taking in a mech list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
Been playing only Orks since 8h released.

The fundamental problem with every Ork unit is that they are all over costed for what they do. If you compare any Ork unit to comparable units in other lists the Orks cost more and have worse statline. This is further compounded by Ork wargear costing too much or having non linear costs compared to other units.( E.g. twin big shoota is cost of (big shoota*2+2), Marine twin heavy bolter is cost of heavy bolter x2, quad heavy bolter is cost of ((heavy bolter-1)*4) WTH)

Boyz should be a pt less, Grots should be 1 to 2 pts.

Most vehicles and walkers should drop by 1/4th in cost

Big choppas should be 5 pts
Powerklaw 12 pts
killsaw 15 pts

Kustom shoota 2 pts
Normalize twin linked cost to be equal to every other faction, ie doesn't cost extra points over double base weapon cost.

All of the ranged weapons need a points decrease.

BS5+ and assault/ heavy weapons are in a special place. A bad special place, it's not so hard for an unit to get a buff that gives -2 to hit, and Orks are one of the few factions that get little to no access to bonuses to hit, coupled with BS 5+ this results in many not uncommon situations where Orks cannot hit regardless of what they roll. This makes shooting weapons much less valuable for the faction overall.

You're pretty much spot on IMO, and I think as others have mentioned before, in order to address how much we're affected by negative modifiers in the game, we should get some sort of army-wide rule called "Dakka Dakka Dakka!" where it represents that our shooting is like firing a wall of lead which means we don't ignore negative modifiers to our shooting.

blaktoof wrote:
Been playing only Orks since 8h released.

The fundamental problem with every Ork unit is that they are all over costed for what they do. If you compare any Ork unit to comparable units in other lists the Orks cost more and have worse statline. This is further compounded by Ork wargear costing too much or having non linear costs compared to other units.( E.g. twin big shoota is cost of (big shoota*2+2), Marine twin heavy bolter is cost of heavy bolter x2, quad heavy bolter is cost of ((heavy bolter-1)*4) WTH)

Boyz should be a pt less, Grots should be 1 to 2 pts.

Most vehicles and walkers should drop by 1/4th in cost

Big choppas should be 5 pts
Powerklaw 12 pts
killsaw 15 pts

Kustom shoota 2 pts
Normalize twin linked cost to be equal to every other faction, ie doesn't cost extra points over double base weapon cost.

All of the ranged weapons need a points decrease.

BS5+ and assault/ heavy weapons are in a special place. A bad special place, it's not so hard for an unit to get a buff that gives -2 to hit, and Orks are one of the few factions that get little to no access to bonuses to hit, coupled with BS 5+ this results in many not uncommon situations where Orks cannot hit regardless of what they roll. This makes shooting weapons much less valuable for the faction overall.

I think boyz and stormboyz are costed about right. Everything else is off, and part of that is paying for close combat stats on units that have no intent to get into CC. Weapons do need a big re-costing, they did some weird things with ork weapons. Rokkits are 12 points, and tankbustas are 5, to get the unit to be the right cost because they spam rokkits. If they wanted that unit to be 17 ppm they should have raised price on the individual orks not the weapons, then they did the opposite with Burnas where their guns are free and the orks are 17 points.

I will note that twin items are not always just 2x single gun for other faction, the difference is they tend to be that or LESS, where as orks are always >2x single gun
Big shoota = 6, twin big shoota 14
Rokkit = 12, twin rokkit = 28
Shoota = 0, kustom shoota = 4

For other factions
Marines(sisters for Multimelta, HB)
Assault cannon = 21, twin = 35
heavy bolter = 10, twin = 17
LAscannon = 25, twin = 50
Bolter = 0, twin bolter/storm = 2
Heavy Flamer = 17, twin = 34
Heavy Plasma cannon = 30, twin = 34
Multimelta = 27, twin = 54

Eldar
Missile Launcher 25, twin 50
Brightlance 20, twin 40
Scatter laser 15, twin 30
Shuriken cannon 12, twin 24
Shuriken Catapult 0, twin 10
Starcannon 30, twin 60

Dark Eldar
Liquefier gun = 13, twin 26

Necrons
Heavy Guass cannon 32 twin 64

Admech
Heavy phosphor blaster 15, twin 30

IG
Heavy bolter 8, twin 14
Heavy flamer 17, twin 30

GSC
Autocannon 15, twin 33

So orks and GSC are the only armies where a twin weapon costs more than 2 of the same weapon. most cost straight double, and Marines have many that cost less than double.

 Grimskul wrote:
Your experience sums up mine as well Koooaei, though in my instance the KFF paid off dividends since my opponent was using melta weaponry instead.

The Deff Dred, even with skorchas for shooting (which can be counter-intuitive if you're trying to charge a unit) is fairly lucklustre. They should really give it a rule where it can advance and charge or just be affected by a Warboss' WAAAGH!.

I'm surprised to hear how effective Badrukk is though, given that I haven't used him in a game yet. Do you think he's only worth taking in a mech list?

Sure, KFF is better vs ap4. Especially if there is no cover involved - and there rarely is unless you're a defender or have deepstrike or you're really fast. And none of this applies to our walkers. It's just that the bulk of heavy weapons are either ap3 like plazmas and lazcannons or ap1 like assault cannons. Ap4 is usually met on elf weaponry or meltas. Not too rare but definitely not as common as ap3. Even so, KFF is not a waste of points if it saves at least a couple wounds across the game. And even if it doesn't it's just 20 pts, so no big deal. I don't think it's necessery for footslogging hordes though.

Deff dreads are definitely not amazing. No idea why they didn't get an attack increase like sm dreads. And they basically cost the same. Disppointing overall.

As for Badrukk, i'd not call him too effective. He can be ok in any list though. He has passable damage output and being a character with decent durabiity he can easilly slip into 95% lists without feeling out of place.
You can expect Badrukk to deal 3 damage per turn to a medium vehice from afar which is not too bad for an ork that costs < 100 pts. Statistically, if you re-roll all faied hits, he deals 3.75 pts of damage to t7 3+ armor if stationary and 2.5 while moving. Be careful with overheats though. He overheats himself up pretty quickly. He payed off for me because there were ideal targets for his shooting - necron heavy destroyers that are expensive infantry with 3 wounds and only 5++ (from cryptech). Badrukk's damage output and durability is probably still higher than that of big gun'z. Though, he can barely score more than 2 points on the battlefield while costing like 3 gunz and his 24 range is relatively short for what he wants to do, so don't expect to score more than one flag. Ammo runts can help though. Anywayz, i'd call him ok. Sometimes you just need that bit of shooting - that's why dakkajets show up. And i think Badrukk is more valuable than a Dakkajet.

Thanks koooaei, great report!

Someone asked me to report when I would field the walker list from a few weeks ago, and it also kind of matches koooaei's report, so here it is:



The idea was that fliers, kanz and deff dreads are all weak to the same stuff and nothing cared about anti-infantry shooting which I would no doubt face since everyone was expecting me to bring boyz en masse. I also wanted to have a game to directly compare the three planes.

The game was me and a tzeench flying circus (kairos, three daemon princes, three flamers, a soul grinder and the changeling plus a few brimstones) against 3000 points of tau (three players), pretty much bringing everything the tau codex had to offer: Two commanders, two units of pathfinders, a riptide, a ghostkeel, a hammerhead with some plasma autocannon, longstrike, a stormsurge, stealth suits, crisis suits, a piranha, some kroot and fire warriors plus a couple of minor characters sprinkled everywhere.

The mission was Maelstrom: Tactical Escalation (you get mission cards equal to the turn order) and we deployed in Front-Line Assault (wedges on long table edges). Escalating front-line assault? That's what I call Waaagh!

We finished deployment first with orks in the center and deamons to the right. The tau hid all their expensive shooty stuff as far in the left corner as they could and filled all cover they had with infantry. All players agreed on using the old deployment rules, so we went first.

Turn 1, I wasn't sure how tau work in 8th, but "kill all the marker lights" has never failed me. So the burna bommer and the blitza bommer move straight into the enemy army, each one drops a bomb, each one kills 5 pathfinders. The walkers and their meks run forward, no one is within 24" of a single tau unit after moving. The Dakkajet moves close enough to one big mek to get KFF coverage. The supa-shootas and grot-gunners kill more pathfinders, the skorcha missile rack whiffs - as expected, not worth 20 points.
The daemons fly forward, Kairos smites some more pathfinders, princes kill a few fire warriors with warp bolters. The soul grinder moves towards the objective in the left part of our deployment zone.
Moral kills all the remaining pathfinders, our mission is holding the objective in the middle for two turns, currently in range for 3 kanz, a big mek, a grot oiler and a deff dread.

Enemy turn is a lot of shooting going on, they drop their two commanders behind the riptide. Terrified by what the two bommers did to their pathfinders, they try to mark the two planes with their four remaining markerlights, succeed twice on the blitza and fail on the burna. The blitza gets shot down first, explodes ( ) puts a bunch of mortal wounds on long strike, the riptide, the commanders and the kroot, while killing a unit of missile drones. Afterwards the rest of the army proceeds to take down the burna bommer, and I fail Explosive Demise, spent a CP to reroll it successfully and put 3 mortal wounds on the riptide, kroot, two units of fire warriors, one commander plus some more dead drones. The dakka jet makes some awesome KFF saves and remains almost undamaged. A ghostkeel and some stealth suits appear to take on the soul grinder, but fail miserably, not even putting a scratch into it. The ghostkeel's stealth drones capture the objective the soul grinder was supposed to take for 2VP. Crisis suits appear and shoot 3 wounds of a KMB kan, longstrike shoots two wounds off a rokkit kan. In total the two explosions did more damage than the entire tau army.

Turn 2, one big mek and a dread runs, the KMB kanz and another big mek move towards the storm surge and the two tanks, the rokkit kanz move onto the middle objective to score 2 VP for holding it two turns. With the help of a grot oiler, the big meks repairs all damage done to the kanz. The dakka jet leaves the safety of the KFF to jump right behind the warlord commander and turns it into a bullet sponge. Slay the warlord! Rokkit kanz blow up all but one crisis suit, the big mek's rokkit kills the last one. KMB kanz take 5 wounds of longstrike.
Daemons smite most of two units of fire warriors dead, Kairos holds an objective right in front of them for 1 VP.
Dread fails 8" charge on kroot. KMB kanz fail a 6" charge on the stealth suits and the piranha. Soul grinder smashes stealth drones.

The tau try to take down the dakka jet, but they fail to mark it and it survives with 2 wounds. Some big gun blows 4 wounds off a deff dread, kairos loses a bunch of wounds. They score another 2 VP for a priority mission and draw even despite getting the whipping of their life.

Turn 3, we draw two priority objectives, kill stuff in shooting phase and kill stuff in combat. In addition we need to capture the objective in the middle again, which is currently held by a unit of kanz.
The deff dreads move forward to charge the remaining three kroot, kanz move to charge piranha and stealth suits, the daemons reach the side of the tau gunline. Meks repair all damage to the walkers again.
One of the daemon princes accidentally smites all the three kroot I planned to charged with one dread. All orks shoot a bunch of wounds off longstrike, leaving him at two. The KMB kan roll two , wounding the two kanz in the rear. Daemons finish two unit of fire warriors, so only 2VP for that mission. Dakka jet kills most of a unit of fire warriors.
KMB Kanz fail charge on the hammerhead, tau overwatch rolls a ton of sixes and the stormsurge takes both wounded kanz down to 2 wounds. Deff dread gets overwatched hard (loses 6 wounds) and then fails the charge on long strike. Kairos charged the riptide, one daemon prince charges the remaining commander, one daemon prince and a flamer charge an etheral, one fireblade and four fire warriors. Soulgrinder charges ghosts and piranha. The fire warriors, the piranha and the commander's drones die, awarding us 3 VP.

Tau activate the commanders reroll aura, and they are angry. Commander and riptide disengage and start shooting. The wounded dread blows up, and I fail to realize that I can reroll the explosion dice (which I just did two turns ago), putting 3 wounds on the other dread, which then gets killed by the almost-dead longshot. The grot oiler gets killed and the big mek loses two wounds and two wounds go to the rokkit kanz. The stormsurge destroys one of the KMB kanz, and leaves the last one at 1 wound (KFF saved my rear here). Dakkajet loses his last two wounds to the surviving fire warriors.
They shoot kairos down to 3 wounds, one daemon prince gets reduced to 2 wounds by the commander it charged.
They are unable to reach any of their missions, and are forced to keep one for an objective in our deployment zone.

In turn 3 shooting does almost nothing. The banner nob charges and kills longstrike, the kanz charge the hammerhead and hit it three times, leaving it at one. The other kanz fail to charge to riptide, the soulgrinder kills the stealth suits, the daemons kill the commander, the etheral, and the riptide. Tau surrender at 12:4 VP with the Ghostkeel, the stormsurge, two fireblades, ten fire warrirors (across two units) and a hammerhead with one wound left on the table. We have 7 kanz, two big meks, the banner nob, three daemon princes, three exalted flamers, kairos and 10 brimstone horrors that got us 2VP by just sitting on an objective behind LOS blocking terrain all game.

General takeaways:
- The most relevant thing the Nob did all game was smashing a tau tank commander with the freakin' banner itself. Another kan would have added more to the unit than +1 to hit.
- Moral is not as much an issue for kanz as I thought. Even though almost all of 3000 points of tau was shooting me over two turns, I only lost one kan and always held 2CP in reserve in case I do get to take a bad moral check. Dreads and planes definitely draw fire from kanz.
- KMB is a great budget option, but against tau, there were no good targets for them. D3 damage on a single shot is not enough to kill tanks and killing single infantry models was not really worth it. If feel like they might be way better against armies that actually have infantry with saves to ignore, like marines or craftworld eldar.
- Skorchas on dreads are pretty much wasted. If I actually get within 8" of something, the dread can charge it and will most likely utterly destroy it. If not... well, it probably didn't do anything. If something is not afraid to charge the dread, it's definitely not afraid of the skorcha. I'll probably go with big shootas next time.
- Now that I've played them both, I feel like burna bommers are actually better than blitza bommers. For +2 points you get another 3 shots that hit on 4+ and Explosive demise. I deployed within 9" of the KFF but outside 6" to prevent accidents, and afterwards it was pretty easy to keep the plane within explosion distance of the enemy for at least two turns - afterwards the bombs are gone anyways. You only get the 4+ against infantry, but bombs aren't that great against anything with multiple wounds. I never felt the urge to drop blitza bombs on a vehicle for 1.5 mortal wounds. Just stay away from skorcha missiles.
- Advance your dreads until you can make a sure charge, mine never reached combat because I stopped advancing a turn too early. You also probably need three dreads to have at least one in combat.
- I would run big meks for the repairs alone, KFF is just a nice add-on. Also the rokkit launcha on the big mek was a pretty good investment.
- Two planes are probably enough for most games.

I think that bombers overperformed because tau actually decided to shoot them. It was a better idea to leave them be - at least with antitank weaponry. Because firstly, plane's damage outpt degrades drastically after the bombs are dropped, and secondly, they are dangerous to kill near your troops cause of strong explosions. It's a good idea to shoot down planes if you have 1-st turn while they're on the other side of the board and haven't dropped the cargo yet. Especially if the owner has other units nearby.

As for meks and taking rokkits on them, i'm not sure. Repairs are pretty good and you got to keep close to vehicles. And i've found walkers to be advancing for at least a couple first turns so the mek aso had to advance to be within 3". I mean rokkit might not be too bad on a character but it's definitely not a №1 priority.

I've not been around the Ork thread for a while, but Ive been spending a bit of time on the Chaos and AdMech threads due to a new project I'm starting, and with the release of the AdMEch codex I've seen some patterns that might give us some insight into the Ork codex that will (eventually) arrive.

1) Points Changes.
GW have been making alterations to points in the codex vs the index, so tweaks to weapon or unit points costs are definitly possible. Hard to predict which units they'll choose to alter, but so far they do seem to have altered the units (in admech anyway) that needed it. The changes were only minor though, but still every little helps.

2) Traits & Strategems
This is the part that makes the difference, more so than points changes. Electropriests in the AdMech index were a pretty good unit on paper, but were pointless in games because they were slow and they had zero transport options. GW didn't give admech a transport, but instead gave them two forgeworld (same as legion) strategems that allow for deepstriking or infiltrating units in exchange for CP. They also gave a couple of the forgeworlds traits that boost units in different ways, one in particular makes priests a powerful alpha strike unit.

Some of these forgeworld traits are similar to ones we've seen before in space marines and chaos, such as the Stygies trait that gives the opponent -1 to hit all units that are more than 12" away (same as Alpha Legion and ... Ravenguard, I think). Stygies is one of the ones that has the infiltrate strategem too, which is also the same as Alpha and Raven. A few slight differences, but very similar. Not all the admech forgeworld traits etc are copy pasted from other codexes, but I don't mind that some are as it gives a consistency in the rules and gives all the armies similar options but with very different units.



So, I suspect we would get something like:

Klan Stealthy : -1 to hit units more than 12" from an enemy, infiltrate one unit for 1CP

We will also likely get a "renewal" strategem, where you spend 1-2CP to remove one of your units from the board, and bring them back in at any table edge, at full strength. Chaos got one of these, and so did AdMech, and it's very Orky to have a unit spring back into the fray (though might be a bit overpowered for Boyz units).

As for the other things, I'm not sure. I could guess at some of the things that have come before, but its hard to say how it would be balanced for a horde army vs the elite lists of AdMech. Recycling big boyz squads could be a bit crazy. But still, some of the traits and strategems I've seen have made a fair bit of difference to army selection, and it's definitly something to look forward to. Could make all the difference.

Guys. Does it or does it not make sense that the Garg Squig can't carry mega armour? Considering that the regular Squiggoth can. Putting a rather sizable dent in the awesomeness that would be Ghaz stomping into battle on one in the list I'm looking at :(

 koooaei wrote:
I think that bombers overperformed because tau actually decided to shoot them. It was a better idea to leave them be - at least with antitank weaponry. Because firstly, plane's damage outpt degrades drastically after the bombs are dropped, and secondly, they are dangerous to kill near your troops cause of strong explosions. It's a good idea to shoot down planes if you have 1-st turn while they're on the other side of the board and haven't dropped the cargo yet. Especially if the owner has other units nearby.

Having your own troops nearby is easily avoided. Each bommer took out 10 pathfinders in cover (the blitza got some help from the dakka jet), and would have done the same to the units of fire warriors on their objectives, while the kanz would only fire four shots each and none of the daemons besides Kairos could be targeted due to all of them being characters. In addition many guns they used to take down the bommers were not in ranged to shoot anything else, so I think shooting them was the best they could do. If they had not aimed their anti-tank at the planes as well they would not have killed anything during their first turn.
I think the tau player's only mistake was not to deploy a commander with the other stuff so they couldn't activate their re-roll aura in turn one - they could not have known that the blitza bommer would explode (only on 6+), kill the commander's drones and leave it open for assassination by the dakka jet.

As for meks and taking rokkits on them, i'm not sure. Repairs are pretty good and you got to keep close to vehicles. And i've found walkers to be advancing for at least a couple first turns so the mek aso had to advance to be within 3". I mean rokkit might not be too bad on a character but it's definitely not a №1 priority.

Full agree. I put a combi-skorcha on one so it could advance and skorch something with auto-hits, the rokkit was kind of a budget option because I was out of points. On the tabletop this unintendedly worked really well as the skorcha mek would advance with the two dreads and the rokkit mek stayed with the kanz that did not want to advance themselves.

Niiru wrote:
I've not been around the Ork thread for a while, but Ive been spending a bit of time on the Chaos and AdMech threads due to a new project I'm starting, and with the release of the AdMEch codex I've seen some patterns that might give us some insight into the Ork codex that will (eventually) arrive.

1) Points Changes.
GW have been making alterations to points in the codex vs the index, so tweaks to weapon or unit points costs are definitly possible. Hard to predict which units they'll choose to alter, but so far they do seem to have altered the units (in admech anyway) that needed it. The changes were only minor though, but still every little helps.

2) Traits & Strategems
This is the part that makes the difference, more so than points changes. Electropriests in the AdMech index were a pretty good unit on paper, but were pointless in games because they were slow and they had zero transport options. GW didn't give admech a transport, but instead gave them two forgeworld (same as legion) strategems that allow for deepstriking or infiltrating units in exchange for CP. They also gave a couple of the forgeworlds traits that boost units in different ways, one in particular makes priests a powerful alpha strike unit.

Some of these forgeworld traits are similar to ones we've seen before in space marines and chaos, such as the Stygies trait that gives the opponent -1 to hit all units that are more than 12" away (same as Alpha Legion and ... Ravenguard, I think). Stygies is one of the ones that has the infiltrate strategem too, which is also the same as Alpha and Raven. A few slight differences, but very similar. Not all the admech forgeworld traits etc are copy pasted from other codexes, but I don't mind that some are as it gives a consistency in the rules and gives all the armies similar options but with very different units.



So, I suspect we would get something like:

Klan Stealthy : -1 to hit units more than 12" from an enemy, infiltrate one unit for 1CP

We will also likely get a "renewal" strategem, where you spend 1-2CP to remove one of your units from the board, and bring them back in at any table edge, at full strength. Chaos got one of these, and so did AdMech, and it's very Orky to have a unit spring back into the fray (though might be a bit overpowered for Boyz units).

As for the other things, I'm not sure. I could guess at some of the things that have come before, but its hard to say how it would be balanced for a horde army vs the elite lists of AdMech. Recycling big boyz squads could be a bit crazy. But still, some of the traits and strategems I've seen have made a fair bit of difference to army selection, and it's definitly something to look forward to. Could make all the difference.

What would you guys think of a strategem that gave ALL Ork Vehicle units the ability to declare a charge on the same turn they Advanced? 1 or 2 CP's? It seems this is the route GW is going with 8th.

 Cuz05 wrote:
Guys. Does it or does it not make sense that the Garg Squig can't carry mega armour? Considering that the regular Squiggoth can. Putting a rather sizable dent in the awesomeness that would be Ghaz stomping into battle on one in the list I'm looking at :(

It does not make much sense, no. It is just sloppy rule-writing by forge world. On the other hand you want something shooty and fragile in that Squiggoth. Like tankbustas.

Put Ghaz and retinue in a hard-topped battlewagon with a deffrolla. Or da jump him. He is not half-bad footslogging, either. Two advances + a charge gives him a credible turn 2 threat range of 24-26".

Went on a tournament today.
3 games, all a combination of eternal war and maelstrom. With ObSec, ini roll off from chapter approved and additional victory points for tabling the opponent. (5-20 depending on which turn)

My list:

KFF Mek on bike
2 Wyrdboys (da jump and warpath)
2 x 30 boys (each 3 rokkits, 5 shoota, nob with BC)
10 gretchin
6 tankbusta + 2 squiggs
2 bare meks (one the warlord; to avoid getting tabled and deny that extra killpoint)
2 single koptas
gorkanaut
battlewaggon (kannon, 2 rokkits, 2 BS)
8 flash gits with ammo runts


First game was vs chaos. The forgeworld 700 point demon, apostel, 2 herolds, bloodletters, zerkers, marines, 3 rhinos.
4 objectives + always 3 tactical objectives.

Went first and got the objective to hold all 6 objectives. Jumped da boys, charged the rhinos and got it - nice. Shot some of the 24 wounds of the demon and killed some small stuff.
His army charged the boys but due to losses i killed the right models so most of his stuff could not attack. Blocked almost his whole army to keep shooting at it from the distance as well.
Second turn killed infantry stuff and weakened the demon a bit more, he finally killed that first mob and moved towards me.
Got his demon down to 7 wounds with shooting and killed some of his stuff.
Second mob boys engaged the marines but failed to surround a rhino by 2" to kill the stuff inside after wrecking it.
Gorkanaut attacked the demon, rolled poor and got down to 3 wounds.
Was about 7 VP ahead and it looked really good. Had a lot of shooting stuff left but then his demon killed the battlewaggon.
Looked still really good for me but it played a bit slow so we had to finish after turn 4. He had the last turn and managed to get 3 of the 4 markers.
Made some small mistakes over the game like not jumping the grotz in his deployment zone at the end of the game and to bad there wasn`t a turn 5. Would at least had made it a draw but it ended 7:13.
Still very fun game and my opponent was a nice guy and we talked a bit to long during the game which was a bit unfortunatly in the end but i don`t care since that got me a good match up in the next game.


Number 2 was vs BA with lemartes, 1 jump captain, 1 jump priest, 2x jump death company, 2 x jump assault squad, 3 tactical squads, 1 raven, 1 leviathan bot and 1 razor. 1 death company and bot in raven.
Mission was killpoints with lockdown (degrading objectives).

Went first again and shot the raven down to 4 wounds and jumped the boys with warpath in front of his army.
They charged 2 tactical squads and one assault squad and killed almost all + consolidated into the razorback.
Deepstriked his death company behind the jumped boys and disembarked with the other death company squad in front of them as well + got all his characters into them.
The bot disembarked and together with the raven shot my waggon down to 3 wounds plus they whiped out about half of the second squad of boys.
Failed the charge with his deepstriking death company and after his first attacks my jumped mob used the strategem and killed the rest of the marines plus some more.
My second turn i shot down the raven and got the leviathan down to 4 wounds with shooting. The jumped mob kept killing stuff.
The boys back in the middle failed to charge his bot but i had a lot victory points after the first two rounds.
He tried his luck with the gorkanaut and some objectives but had more luck with the waggon which he destroyed and finally killed that first mob of boys.
In turn 3 i shot down the leviathan, jumped the grot with warpath to the razor to get the objective and keep it from shooting.
Killed lemartes and the small squad death company with the gorkanaut, that left his razor, captain, priest, and 1 assault squad.
Got him tabled by the end of turn 5 and with 38:8 i got a 20:0.
My shooting overall was insane this game and every move went according to plan. Lost most of the boys, the gretchin and nothing else.
Was now at rang 7/30 and the last game could get me into the top 5 but...


...3rd game vs Girlyman, Celestine, Captain, Callexus, 3 x scions, some IG, 5 razors, 2 x scouts and some conscripts.
Was vs a buddy of mine and we playtested it 2 days before but you guess it - 0:20.
That list is a huge pain in the ass.
Made some mistakes and he really played it well to give me no chance to do something usefull with da jump.
Tried what i could but big guns never tire & cloak and shadows went bad for me.
Could maybe have scored some more points and delayed getting tabled to get at least 1-3 points but had really bad Maelstrom objectives which was my only chance since he would always dominate on the eternal war mission.
Even with lesser drops and rerolls i went second which also would have helped a lot. Had no real LOS blockers so i could not get out of sight.
Waggon got killed turn 1 and gorkanaut turn 3 without doing anything in shooting.


Total result: 15 of 30, 2 really nice games and learned a lot.
2 really good match ups and 1 really bad one.^^

Unit performance:

KFF mek: Nothing to say, solid choice
Wyrdboys: Really good, that warpath and jump combination gives my boys the necessary punch since my shooty orks just get 2 mobs
Boys: Did well, that rokkits safed my day once more. Need more grotz and an runtherd so the boys don´t have to screen so much.
Grotz: camped, jumped, wounded an razorback. what elso can i want for 30 points?
Meks: Tried it to hide them and it went perfekt twice. Think i stay with at least 1 for now. Also good to cover corners to prevent deep striking.
Tankbustas: They are awesome. In combination with the Flash Gits they did a lot good for me. Gotta love those squiggbombs.
Koptas: Expensive but durable vs small arms fire. Flexible rokkits? Yes please! One even killed an herold in overwatch. Also good for tactical objectives.
Gorkanaut: Well, he only shines in CC for me but when he gets there - holy moly. Draws fire from the waggon and can quickly kill MEQ and similar stuff (in CC). Love the model but 400 points could get me a lot other toys... :( That mass shooting is good if my jumping boys have better stuff to do or to kill off some last wounds.
Battle waggon: Never fails to amaze me. Makes Flash Gits and tankbustas playable but has often high priority. His shooting is a bonus.
Flash Gits: I love those guys. Tanks, marines, they are good for everything and i often got to shoot on BS4+. Good to clean up tanks or ravens after the bustas and bazookas did the main work.

I think as hard as it feels i`ll try my list without gorkanaut and get another waggon with bustas and flash gits instead.
The mass rokkits are expensive as hell but give me decent AT on different platforms.
Would love to take another mob of boys but don`t know where to get the points in 1850 point games.

pismakron wrote:

 Cuz05 wrote:
Guys. Does it or does it not make sense that the Garg Squig can't carry mega armour? Considering that the regular Squiggoth can. Putting a rather sizable dent in the awesomeness that would be Ghaz stomping into battle on one in the list I'm looking at :(

It does not make much sense, no. It is just sloppy rule-writing by forge world. On the other hand you want something shooty and fragile in that Squiggoth. Like tankbustas.

Put Ghaz and retinue in a hard-topped battlewagon with a deffrolla. Or da jump him. He is not half-bad footslogging, either. Two advances + a charge gives him a credible turn 2 threat range of 24-26".

Sure, but these are just fun, fluffy games and I love the idea of him roaring from the top of it
I run him in all sorts of ways, but yeah, normally in a trukk protected by a KFF or a hard top wagon.

Anyone had much experience with Stompas?
I know that two big solo units are a bad choice in maelstrom type games generally, but I was wondering about doing a pair of stompas as an army (fits 2000 points in 2 detachments nicely), and was wondering about tactics to do as well as I can.

The kustom stompa has slightly better options (though annoyingly no powerfield) but it's that touch too expensive to field two or one-and-one normal.

 Jidmah wrote:
Each bommer took out 10 pathfinders in cover (the blitza got some help from the dakka jet), and would have done the same to the units of fire warriors on their objectives, while the kanz would only fire four shots each and none of the daemons besides Kairos could be targeted due to all of them being characters.

That's an interesting combination of planes and daemons. 2v2 games sure change regular stuff we're used to. In case of many characters, having explodable planes near the shooty enemy gunline turn one is a way to force them make harsh decisions. In this case, 3 burna bombers would be ideal. They'd just fall and explode the gunline away. Still, my point about ork planes for pure ork army is that 10 pathfinders cost ~half of what the plane costs. And the planes usually don't pay off point-wise. Most enemies don't run squads larger than 5. Ork planes do have utility. But they're not tremendously good for points.

Jidmah wrote:Thanks koooaei, great report!

General takeaways:
- The most relevant thing the Nob did all game was smashing a tau tank commander with the freakin' banner itself. Another kan would have added more to the unit than +1 to hit.
- Moral is not as much an issue for kanz as I thought. Even though almost all of 3000 points of tau was shooting me over two turns, I only lost one kan and always held 2CP in reserve in case I do get to take a bad moral check. Dreads and planes definitely draw fire from kanz.
- KMB is a great budget option, but against tau, there were no good targets for them. D3 damage on a single shot is not enough to kill tanks and killing single infantry models was not really worth it. If feel like they might be way better against armies that actually have infantry with saves to ignore, like marines or craftworld eldar.
- Skorchas on dreads are pretty much wasted. If I actually get within 8" of something, the dread can charge it and will most likely utterly destroy it. If not... well, it probably didn't do anything. If something is not afraid to charge the dread, it's definitely not afraid of the skorcha. I'll probably go with big shootas next time.
- Now that I've played them both, I feel like burna bommers are actually better than blitza bommers. For +2 points you get another 3 shots that hit on 4+ and Explosive demise. I deployed within 9" of the KFF but outside 6" to prevent accidents, and afterwards it was pretty easy to keep the plane within explosion distance of the enemy for at least two turns - afterwards the bombs are gone anyways. You only get the 4+ against infantry, but bombs aren't that great against anything with multiple wounds. I never felt the urge to drop blitza bombs on a vehicle for 1.5 mortal wounds. Just stay away from skorcha missiles.
- Advance your dreads until you can make a sure charge, mine never reached combat because I stopped advancing a turn too early. You also probably need three dreads to have at least one in combat.
- I would run big meks for the repairs alone, KFF is just a nice add-on. Also the rokkit launcha on the big mek was a pretty good investment.
- Two planes are probably enough for most games.

Nice write up Jidmah, was a great read.
I really loved the use of planes, and the explodes was just the icing on the cake really I never thought of using the dakkajet as an assassination tool and will have to remember that one should the opportunity arise It seemed like you had some great rolls early game, how do you feel the rolls went overall? Was it quite heavily in your favour? or did the Tau roll average? Trying to gauge the element of rng in the game. The Kanz seemed to be pretty resilient, the dreads like you said; lackluster, given the chance to trade out the dreads what would you opt for? Big gunz? More Kanz?

I agree with Koooaei, 2v2s seem like a great dynamic for the Orks, Im gona have to try and squeeze in a 2v2 sometime (sadly the gaming scene in Oxford is pretty small).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grotrebel wrote:


I think as hard as it feels i`ll try my list without gorkanaut and get another waggon with bustas and flash gits instead.
The mass rokkits are expensive as hell but give me decent AT on different platforms.
Would love to take another mob of boys but don`t know where to get the points in 1850 point games.

Out of interest, did the flash gitz extra shooting rule come up much? and what did you spend your CP on? other than the Counter strike with your jumped boyz

To be honest, i forget to roll for it almost all the time. In competitive and friendly games as well. Still managed to get it of once.

Used the points for rolling of marker deployment. Prefer to go second so i got to choose my deployment zone 3 times which is nice and almost every time had at least one more objective near me.
Other points on the initiative.

Some for charging jumped boys, twice to reroll damage of the bombsquigg. Both times reroll gave me a 6.

The rest for wound rolls with rokkits or the morale / CC strategem.
I think with buggies instead the koptas and more grotz i' ll go for a brigade detachment.

I actually had a problem because had 3-7 drops less then my opponent which made deploying tricky. Guess with the roll off +1 i'll no longer care about my number of drops.
That new version does more damage to my kind of lists that it helpes.

Overall i have to admit i forgot some stuff in the heat of the battle which kosted me some potential points in game 1 & 3.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Went on a tournament today.

My list:

KFF Mek on bike
2 Wyrdboys (da jump and warpath)
2 x 30 boys (each 3 rokkits, 5 shoota, nob with BC)
10 gretchin
6 tankbusta + 2 squiggs
2 bare meks (one the warlord; to avoid getting tabled and deny that extra killpoint)
2 single koptas
gorkanaut
battlewaggon (kannon, 2 rokkits, 2 BS)
8 flash gits with ammo runts

I'm surprised that so many people are taking 3 rokkits in their boyz squads, it seems counterintuitive since most of the time you're jumping into melee anyway. How many shots are you actually hitting (since they're hitting on 5+)? Rule of Averages says only 1 of those hits of the 3, and then still has to Wound/break armor saves.

I'm glad someone's having success with their flash gitz, mine just don't seem to do much. 24" means they're needing to move most of the time to get into range, and that brings us back to 5+ shooting. STR5 AP-2 is nice, but D1 isn't very impressive unless you're shooting plain tactical marines.

ajax_xaja wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Went on a tournament today.

My list:

KFF Mek on bike
2 Wyrdboys (da jump and warpath)
2 x 30 boys (each 3 rokkits, 5 shoota, nob with BC)
10 gretchin
6 tankbusta + 2 squiggs
2 bare meks (one the warlord; to avoid getting tabled and deny that extra killpoint)
2 single koptas
gorkanaut
battlewaggon (kannon, 2 rokkits, 2 BS)
8 flash gits with ammo runts

I'm surprised that so many people are taking 3 rokkits in their boyz squads, it seems counterintuitive since most of the time you're jumping into melee anyway. How many shots are you actually hitting (since they're hitting on 5+)? Rule of Averages says only 1 of those hits of the 3, and then still has to Wound/break armor saves.

I'm glad someone's having success with their flash gitz, mine just don't seem to do much. 24" means they're needing to move most of the time to get into range, and that brings us back to 5+ shooting. STR5 AP-2 is nice, but D1 isn't very impressive unless you're shooting plain tactical marines.

I also don't get this. A tankbusta is 1 point cheaper yet gets a reroll on vehicles. Why take a rokkit boy and lose this, while spending a point?

 JimOnMars wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Went on a tournament today.

My list:

KFF Mek on bike
2 Wyrdboys (da jump and warpath)
2 x 30 boys (each 3 rokkits, 5 shoota, nob with BC)
10 gretchin
6 tankbusta + 2 squiggs
2 bare meks (one the warlord; to avoid getting tabled and deny that extra killpoint)
2 single koptas
gorkanaut
battlewaggon (kannon, 2 rokkits, 2 BS)
8 flash gits with ammo runts

I'm surprised that so many people are taking 3 rokkits in their boyz squads, it seems counterintuitive since most of the time you're jumping into melee anyway. How many shots are you actually hitting (since they're hitting on 5+)? Rule of Averages says only 1 of those hits of the 3, and then still has to Wound/break armor saves.

I'm glad someone's having success with their flash gitz, mine just don't seem to do much. 24" means they're needing to move most of the time to get into range, and that brings us back to 5+ shooting. STR5 AP-2 is nice, but D1 isn't very impressive unless you're shooting plain tactical marines.

I also don't get this. A tankbusta is 1 point cheaper yet gets a reroll on vehicles. Why take a rokkit boy and lose this, while spending a point?

I mean I'm not for rokkits in squads either but they are considerably more durable than Tankbustas. So if those boyz squads are in the open those rokkits will last longer than 6 tank bustas, but it also means you won't be doing much with the rest of the squad.

ajax_xaja wrote:

I'm surprised that so many people are taking 3 rokkits in their boyz squads, it seems counterintuitive since most of the time you're jumping into melee anyway. How many shots are you actually hitting (since they're hitting on 5+)? Rule of Averages says only 1 of those hits of the 3, and then still has to Wound/break armor saves.

I think that is faulty logic. Many people run something like 6x30 boyz, and you will at most jump two of those squads into melee. And the rokkits on the jumped squad is actually fairly useful as they will hit on a 5+ before attempting the charge. And because your opponent will often try to fall back from your boyz squad, they often get to fire those three rokkits every turn until the entire squad has been wiped.

With that being said, I rarely take 'eavy weapons on boyz squads, simply because most boyz will advance most of the time. And hitting on 6+ is simply too feeble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

I also don't get this. A tankbusta is 1 point cheaper yet gets a reroll on vehicles. Why take a rokkit boy and lose this, while spending a point?

If you are not running transports rokkits in boyz squads are much more survivable than tankbustas. They essentially have 26 ablative wounds.

The problem with rokkits in boyz squads is more about advancing with boyz being better than shooting nine times out of ten. And 12 points is fairly expensive.

koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Each bommer took out 10 pathfinders in cover (the blitza got some help from the dakka jet), and would have done the same to the units of fire warriors on their objectives, while the kanz would only fire four shots each and none of the daemons besides Kairos could be targeted due to all of them being characters.

That's an interesting combination of planes and daemons. 2v2 games sure change regular stuff we're used to. In case of many characters, having explodable planes near the shooty enemy gunline turn one is a way to force them make harsh decisions. In this case, 3 burna bombers would be ideal. They'd just fall and explode the gunline away. Still, my point about ork planes for pure ork army is that 10 pathfinders cost ~half of what the plane costs. And the planes usually don't pay off point-wise. Most enemies don't run squads larger than 5. Ork planes do have utility. But they're not tremendously good for points.

It took 3000 points of tau to down two though. In a normal game you would still have one bommer left after the first turn, which could have dropped another bomb.
The reason why I took one of each plane was that my planes broke during my last move and needed some major repairs. I didn't have the chance to test any of them yet and since the opinions on them in this forum varied widely, I was going to see for myself.
In general, I think the burna bommer is always a better choice than the blitza bommer. For +2 points you get the additional big shoota with grot gunner and Explosive Demise as blast weapon/defense. The blitza bommer gets three additional dice for vehicles, which won't care a whole lot about 1.5 mortal wounds most of the time.
Against tau, the dakka jet also had tons of targets to shoot, since it's especially good at killing tau fire warriors. If your opponents aren't careful you can easily jump it next to a character and gun it down - not papa smurf, but librarians, tau commanders, daemon heralds and kff meks are definitely easy prey for it. It's also the cheapest of the three, so there's that.

All of them are pretty decent at clearing out bubble wrap and objective campers, so a good match for the walkers which lack the same while being weak to the same type of guns.
I just wouldn't field three again because I was kind of missing board presence which flyers simply don't provide.

In general, ork stuff is way to expensive. While messing around with the marine codex in battlescribe I discovered I could field Helbrecht (reroll hits, +1 str), two contemptors, four venerable dreads and two storm talons for the same points I fielded this list for. Except it would outeverything this list because everything is just way better in shooting, fighting and resilience. I guess I'll start checking ebay for Goff Marines.

Solar Shock wrote:I really loved the use of planes, and the explodes was just the icing on the cake really I never thought of using the dakkajet as an assassination tool and will have to remember that one should the opportunity arise It seemed like you had some great rolls early game, how do you feel the rolls went overall? Was it quite heavily in your favour? or did the Tau roll average?

To be fair, the tau rolls sucked on their big guns for the first two turns, even if they did punch through the KFF and armor, they only did 2-3 damage. However, I didn't make a single successful armor save on the bommers (against plenty weapons without AP or AP-1), so I felt like that evened it out.
My own shooting was ok (usually 2-3 hits on kanz), but I fudged all the charge rolls.

Trying to gauge the element of rng in the game. The Kanz seemed to be pretty resilient, the dreads like you said; lackluster, given the chance to trade out the dreads what would you opt for? Big gunz? More Kanz?

I would probably keep them, probably add another and trade one of the planes for mek gunz/big gunz. I was missing something to hold objectives in my deployment zone.
The first charge failed because my ally didn't expect to kill three kroot through smite, and if I had re-rolled the explosion of the first dread to go, the other would have made it into combat with 2 or 3 wounds left. Also longstrike's survival was pretty lucky, and he blew off 5 wounds of one dread all by himself. With less playing errors on my side, I feel like the dreads would have wrecked havoc on the tau castle. A point drop for the DCCW would be nice though, even at 0 points, they wouldn't be too cheap. Marine dreads have 4 attacks even without DCCW...
I might also just replace both by a gorkanaut. The additional speed and toughness seems like good deal, unlike the dreads it has relevant shooting and a big mek could have repaired it more often.

I agree with Koooaei, 2v2s seem like a great dynamic for the Orks, Im gona have to try and squeeze in a 2v2 sometime (sadly the gaming scene in Oxford is pretty small).

Ironically, tzeench daemons are very similar to orks - lots of cheap infantry, weak short-ranged shooting and some decent melee. Plus the changeling ist kind of a KFF mek for them. The character spam is kind of insane, but it pretty much felt like an army of stompy things moving towards the tau holed up in the corner.

JimOnMars wrote:I also don't get this. A tankbusta is 1 point cheaper yet gets a reroll on vehicles. Why take a rokkit boy and lose this, while spending a point?

Well, a unit of tankbustaz is simply dead by turn 2. It takes ten times as much shooting per rokkit to silence thems when they are hidden in boyz mobs.

 Jidmah wrote:

Against tau, the dakka jet also had tons of targets to shoot, since it's especially good at killing tau fire warriors. If your opponents aren't careful you can easily jump it next to a character and gun it down - not papa smurf, but librarians, tau commanders, daemon heralds and kff meks are definitely easy prey for it. It's also the cheapest of the three, so there's that.

The burna-bommer is cheaper than the dakkajet, no? Assuming you take 6 supershootas on the dakka, it ends up at 148 (if I remember correctly), and the burnabommer is 120-something without the skorcha missiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

In general, ork stuff is way to expensive. While messing around with the marine codex in battlescribe I discovered I could field Helbrecht (reroll hits, +1 str), two contemptors, four venerable dreads and two storm talons for the same points I fielded this list for. Except it would outeverything this list because everything is just way better in shooting, fighting and resilience. I guess I'll start checking ebay for Goff Marines.

Venerable dreads are better than deff-dreads in just about every way imaginable. It really strikes you just how overcosted the deff-dread is when you compare them straight up. But venerable dreads are easily handled by MOAR BOYZ nad MOAR SMITE, which sadly seems to be our best answer for everything. Well, at least there is an answer, which is more than could be said about 7th edition.

locarno24 wrote:
Anyone had much experience with Stompas?
I know that two big solo units are a bad choice in maelstrom type games generally, but I was wondering about doing a pair of stompas as an army (fits 2000 points in 2 detachments nicely), and was wondering about tactics to do as well as I can.

The kustom stompa has slightly better options (though annoyingly no powerfield) but it's that touch too expensive to field two or one-and-one normal.

I played using a stompa this past weekend. Its a lot of points your putting into one model. Roughly double a knight? A mistake I made is not taking a few mek jobbers to walk behind it and fix damage. Keep all the meks inside and pop 1 out if the one already outside dies. You could take a unit of burna boyz and walk them behind it. It would have up to 3 cheap meks in the unit but they can be shot at, and the'yre pricey.

I balanced out so many points sunk into the stompa by taking minimal size trukker units. Trucks drive around grabbing objectives. Also Kommandos are awesome 5 boyz run about 45 points and can deepstrike to grab objectives

On a General note:

I was grumbling about the squig bombs being 10 points, but I will shut up. In another game I took a few small tankbuster units with 4 squig bombs each. They wrecked stuff! Tank hammers are meh because the unit need to jump out and assault vehicle. The squig bombs have BS 2+ so can be treated like a weapon firing. (Right?) And they're assault weapons so you can launch the squig bomb after trukk advances. (Right? I hope I did that right or I cheated! )

pismakron wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:

I'm surprised that so many people are taking 3 rokkits in their boyz squads, it seems counterintuitive since most of the time you're jumping into melee anyway. How many shots are you actually hitting (since they're hitting on 5+)? Rule of Averages says only 1 of those hits of the 3, and then still has to Wound/break armor saves.

I think that is faulty logic. Many people run something like 6x30 boyz, and you will at most jump two of those squads into melee. And the rokkits on the jumped squad is actually fairly useful as they will hit on a 5+ before attempting the charge. And because your opponent will often try to fall back from your boyz squad, they often get to fire those three rokkits every turn until the entire squad has been wiped.

With that being said, I rarely take 'eavy weapons on boyz squads, simply because most boyz will advance most of the time. And hitting on 6+ is simply too feeble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

I also don't get this. A tankbusta is 1 point cheaper yet gets a reroll on vehicles. Why take a rokkit boy and lose this, while spending a point?

If you are not running transports rokkits in boyz squads are much more survivable than tankbustas. They essentially have 26 ablative wounds.

The problem with rokkits in boyz squads is more about advancing with boyz being better than shooting nine times out of ten. And 12 points is fairly expensive.

In my list i lack boys and need to kill flyers & tanks fast or weaken it enough to let boys do the rest.
Also often i just jump one mob to shield with the other, score on objectives and kill everything that comes to my shooty stuff.
Depends on mission and opponents army.
My mobs almost never need to advance for that reason and for the moment i play them without warboss anyway.

Also i have 20+ rokkits in my army which gives me decent chances of hitting stuff. Often its just necessary to kill 1-3 tanks and keep the others in CC with my boys.
That flat 3 damage and the flexibiliy i get with using them on multiple platforms makes the 5+ up for me.
I see no real more effective way to deal with T8 or mass T7 when i want to stay shooty.

Today i played the same list vs Tallarn IG with 3 hellhounds, 3 leman russ, 2 mantikores, 1 flyer, 3 scions, 2 sniper squads and some infantry + characters.
Jumped in front of his tanks 1 squad with warpath, shot once and with consolidation was able to stay in CC with 3 of the tanks the whole game and with 2 more until turn 3.
Did the same in turn 3 with the second squad, which blocked the middle field turn 2 vs scions and my other stuff did that in my backyard.
Rokkits killed 2 other tanks and the flyer in turn 1-2 and i managed to keep the naut and waggon alive until turn 4.

The rest of my army kept scoring maelstrom and when he finally got rid of the boys and 2 big guys in turn 5 i was 20+ points ahead.
His tanks beeing wrecked or weakened he could`t get to the objectives although he had killed most of my stuff.

Played spoils of war + relic which was perfekt since i placed the second objective which gave me 4 of them after choosing deployment zone. Got the relic with my grotz who sneaked away while he was distracted by the angry boys, naut and all the rokkits flying around.


I see the rokkits not performing well in green tide lists and also think about running one mob without them for the first turn jump but i may not always be able to choose it for da jump when deployment is bad for me.
Need to get more grotz in my list so a can play both mobs more aggressive.

Have to admit if the first round charge fails after da jump i get a hard time because that 50% of my boys get whiped out most of the time.
That morale strategem is gold for me, saved my green ass more than once.

You played the squig bomb correct except squig bombs are also 2+ rerollable vs vehicles. It's pretty much our best damage per cost ratio wpn.
I'm just waiting for either FW update or Gw chapter approved/codex since orks are pretty much established at what's good and not his edition.

Been working on a transport heavy list with 6 boyz trucks and 3 busta trucks. But since it is currently impossible to prevent your opponent from shooting at the tank busta trukks I dont think its going to be a viable prospect this edition unless LOS rules get looked at.