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 Dr.Duck wrote:
Been working on a transport heavy list with 6 boyz trucks and 3 busta trucks. But since it is currently impossible to prevent your opponent from shooting at the tank busta trukks I dont think its going to be a viable prospect this edition unless LOS rules get looked at.

The question becomes, "why are you bringing six trukks with things your opponent is not going to shoot first?"

Build moar tankbustas

 Rismonite wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Been working on a transport heavy list with 6 boyz trucks and 3 busta trucks. But since it is currently impossible to prevent your opponent from shooting at the tank busta trukks I dont think its going to be a viable prospect this edition unless LOS rules get looked at.

The question becomes, "why are you bringing six trukks with things your opponent is not going to shoot first?"

Build moar tankbustas

The idea was to hide the the 3 busta trukks behind the 6 other trukks, but after reading rules its impossible to hide those 3 with current LOS RAW.

Im not sure that bringing a list with the majority of points in nothing but bustas in trukks is a winning proposition. 4 trukks with bustas is like half ur list, and can easily evaporate turn 1. Dont think they can earn even half thier points back in even 2 turns.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Been working on a transport heavy list with 6 boyz trucks and 3 busta trucks. But since it is currently impossible to prevent your opponent from shooting at the tank busta trukks I dont think its going to be a viable prospect this edition unless LOS rules get looked at.

The question becomes, "why are you bringing six trukks with things your opponent is not going to shoot first?"

Build moar tankbustas

The idea was to hide the the 3 busta trukks behind the 6 other trukks, but after reading rules its impossible to hide those 3 with current LOS RAW.

Im not sure that bringing a list with the majority of points in nothing but bustas in trukks is a winning proposition. 4 trukks with bustas is like half ur list, and can easily evaporate turn 1. Dont think they can earn even half thier points back in even 2 turns.

Some perspective on what you are telling me. It takes almost 70 Lootas to shoot four trucks on turn one if you don't roll the ramshackle rule. I have had a BobbyG army rerolling everything only shoot down two dakkajets inside of one turn. You are saying you can position four trukks such that you lose four on turn one?


Bring six trukks with two tankbusta squads in each and don't play against people with 120 Lootas

Ur gonna use ork shooting as an example to prove to me how durable orks are???

70 lootas cost roughly 1200 points? btw who is gonna field 70 lootas.... cmon now.

8 assbacks or 6 assbacks and a stormraven/talon with bobby does the same while being significantly more durable towards the bustas and the lootas. While also being significantly more likely to see on the table. Doenst even need to be that many assbacks, plasma guns, missiles, lascannons etc. U only need to kill a couple trukks and a few of the contents for the strat to stop working.

But if you encounter a opponent that does field a heavy shooting list not only are you losing a game. U lost a game turn 1.

Makes sense. Its a shame a mek can't fix a stompa from insinside, but I guess that's why you pay for the kustom stompas repair krew rule.

With 2 stompas in 2000 points, I considered a couple of meks in auxiliary support detachments, or a grot mob in one, to fill up the points.

The grot 'krew' would let me kick them out to go grab an objective whilst stomping off the other way, butfrankly theyll die as soon as anyone looks at them funny so it's knd of one use...

The meks are the same - a wound back is nice, but I'm not convinced they'll live that long - although I guess the whole character thing might help for a turn or two.

Taking a pair of meks does cost me 2 command points. I dont need it for morale, and with the stompa able to fall back and charge more or less at will, I shouldn't need it too much for counterattack. The main use I can see for re rolls is keeping the supa-gatler firing, but I'd hope one reroll should be okay.

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Against tau, the dakka jet also had tons of targets to shoot, since it's especially good at killing tau fire warriors. If your opponents aren't careful you can easily jump it next to a character and gun it down - not papa smurf, but librarians, tau commanders, daemon heralds and kff meks are definitely easy prey for it. It's also the cheapest of the three, so there's that.

The burna-bommer is cheaper than the dakkajet, no? Assuming you take 6 supershootas on the dakka, it ends up at 148 (if I remember correctly), and the burnabommer is 120-something without the skorcha missiles.

The burna bommer is 102 + 2x supa shoota + twin big shoota = 136, so you're right. I had skorcha rokkits on it this game, which did a whole lot of nothing (three shots, one hit, failed to wound), so I remembered it incorrectly. In that case, the burna bommer might actually be just as good as the dakka jet, maybe better if they manage to fix skorcha missiles. They feel like a big shoota, they should cost like one.

 Jidmah wrote:

In general, ork stuff is way to expensive. While messing around with the marine codex in battlescribe I discovered I could field Helbrecht (reroll hits, +1 str), two contemptors, four venerable dreads and two storm talons for the same points I fielded this list for. Except it would outeverything this list because everything is just way better in shooting, fighting and resilience. I guess I'll start checking ebay for Goff Marines.

Venerable dreads are better than deff-dreads in just about every way imaginable. It really strikes you just how overcosted the deff-dread is when you compare them straight up. But venerable dreads are easily handled by MOAR BOYZ nad MOAR SMITE, which sadly seems to be our best answer for everything. Well, at least there is an answer, which is more than could be said about 7th edition.

And now go look at the contemptor. It hits everything on 2+, wounds most vehicles in combat on 2+ and brings a 6 shot autocannon that hits on 3+ even while moving. To top it off, it has its own integrated KFF that even works in combat. A gorkanaut is a joke compared to that
I'd like looted ironclads, venerable dreads and contemptors in the ork codex please.

And the funny part is that SM players are not happy with their dreads.

Anyone had any luck with Nobz and Meganobz in Trukks? What would be the most effective way of using them? BC Nobz for elite hunting or killsaws for vehicle deconstruction? Are small units of Meganobz with dual killsaws in Trukks any good?

Nobz work pretty well if you buy ammo runts and keep them cheap, so either many big choppas or two pk/killsaws.

Meganobz in general aren't very killy at all, so I don't think there is a point to putting them in a trukk. Explosion rules also work against them.

I've tried nobz in wagons, meganobz in trukks and meganobz on foot.
Nobz are more viable than meganobz for vehicle lists. Meganobz are probably better than nobz for footslogging but regular boyz are better than both for footslogging.

Meganobz in trukks proved to be too overpriced to be really good. They did surprisingly little damage for points. Only managed to tarpit a bunch of marines for a couple turns - but it wasn't too good because marines just fell back and shot them with a-t weapons when all the other threats were down. And trukks are very easy to destroy. Easier than in 7-th with voidshields and cover.

Meganobz on foot once again, didn't kill much but just slogged alongside boyz, scored and dealt a couple wounds here and there. More boyz would have been MUCH better but i just wanted to try it. Some people like Da Jumping 5 Manz and it might be viable in some cases but 5 manz cost more than 30 boyz and almost always do less because there are so many weapons that kill them easilly. And once again, damage output is just too low for points.

Nobz in wagons did ok. Wagons are still not impossible to destroy but it takes some effort and they're passable in mellee. Don't bother with anythig other than a deffrolla. Nobz themselves do decent damage - especially against targets with medium durability. Currently big choppas and stabbas are the way to go. But what makes them really viable is access to ammo runts. Take as many of those as you can fit in your transport. They eat multi-wound weapons and mitigate nob'z weakness to multidamage weapons. The good thing is that you can now play around with wound alocation. If the enemy is shooting bolters, you can take those hits on nobz and utilise 4+ or 3+ (in cover) armor. If the opponent is shooting a lazcannon, throw an ammo runt in a way and laugh at how it gets splatted.

I'm not sure the precise number of points this comes to (very roughly 1k/80 PL), but I was considering playing one of my first Ork games with the following list:

Ghaz

Warboss, PK and kustom shoota

30 Boyz, PK Nob

2 x 10 Gretchin

Runtherd

5 Nobz with stabbas in a Trukk

5 Tankbustas in a Trukk

Painbiker

5-7 Warbikers, BC Nob

3 Deffkoptas, twin big shootas if points, rokkits if PL

5 Stormboyz? I only have 5

Other than maybe pulling the Stormboyz off the roster till I have more like 15, and perhaps moving some of my Gretchin to ammo runt duty, would you recommend any changes to make this a decent list for a small-ish pickup game?

I love BC Nobz with runts in a hard top wagon. Surprisingly effective against everything but flyers and hordes on the charge. If I put Ghaz in with them, it's a big target but things get very, very chopped. Arm one with a killsaw and terminators squeal.
Spend even more points and put Mad Dok in with them and you have my favourite unit in the game. Just pray the wagon doesn't evaporate turn 1.
I like having the FW Meka with KFF and rattler run alongside but I'm in solid fun mode then, concentrated Las fire in competitive mode ends that fun fast.

 koooaei wrote:
I've tried nobz in wagons, meganobz in trukks and meganobz on foot.
Nobz are more viable than meganobz for vehicle lists. Meganobz are probably better than nobz for footslogging but regular boyz are better than both for footslogging.

Meganobz are very slow when footslogging and die faster to anti-tank weapons than nobz.
Regular nobz with ammo runts are almost as durable as boyz, so they work just as good for footsloggers.

The best use for MANz currently is jump them onto an objective in your opponent's deployment zone that's not heavily guarded. Kanz are better and cheaper at almost everything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KommissarKiln wrote:
I'm not sure the precise number of points this comes to (very roughly 1k/80 PL), but I was considering playing one of my first Ork games with the following list:

Ghaz

Warboss, PK and kustom shoota

30 Boyz, PK Nob

2 x 10 Gretchin

Runtherd

5 Nobz with stabbas in a Trukk

5 Tankbustas in a Trukk

Painbiker

5-7 Warbikers, BC Nob

3 Deffkoptas, twin big shootas if points, rokkits if PL

5 Stormboyz? I only have 5

Other than maybe pulling the Stormboyz off the roster till I have more like 15, and perhaps moving some of my Gretchin to ammo runt duty, would you recommend any changes to make this a decent list for a small-ish pickup game?

I don't really see a reason to field those gretchin and the runtherd unless you don't own any more boyz (get more!). 5 Stormboyz really don't do a whole lot, so I'd advice to just get more. Otherwise the list is not stellar, but ok.
You should aim to get a weidboy in there, so you can jump those boyz to wherever all the fast stuff is at.

 koooaei wrote:
I've tried nobz in wagons, meganobz in trukks and meganobz on foot.
Nobz are more viable than meganobz for vehicle lists. Meganobz are probably better than nobz for footslogging but regular boyz are better than both for footslogging.

Meganobz in trukks proved to be too overpriced to be really good. They did surprisingly little damage for points. Only managed to tarpit a bunch of marines for a couple turns - but it wasn't too good because marines just fell back and shot them with a-t weapons when all the other threats were down. And trukks are very easy to destroy. Easier than in 7-th with voidshields and cover.

Meganobz on foot once again, didn't kill much but just slogged alongside boyz, scored and dealt a couple wounds here and there. More boyz would have been MUCH better but i just wanted to try it. Some people like Da Jumping 5 Manz and it might be viable in some cases but 5 manz cost more than 30 boyz and almost always do less because there are so many weapons that kill them easilly. And once again, damage output is just too low for points.

Nobz in wagons did ok. Wagons are still not impossible to destroy but it takes some effort and they're passable in mellee. Don't bother with anythig other than a deffrolla. Nobz themselves do decent damage - especially against targets with medium durability. Currently big choppas and stabbas are the way to go. But what makes them really viable is access to ammo runts. Take as many of those as you can fit in your transport. They eat multi-wound weapons and mitigate nob'z weakness to multidamage weapons. The good thing is that you can now play around with wound alocation. If the enemy is shooting bolters, you can take those hits on nobz and utilise 4+ or 3+ (in cover) armor. If the opponent is shooting a lazcannon, throw an ammo runt in a way and laugh at how it gets splatted.

In 8th edition the strength of an attack (S) is much less important than it used to be, while sheer number of attacks is what matters most. This is why boyz are so much better than pretty much anything else in the index. Lots of S4 AP0 attacks are much better than fewer S10 AP-4 attacks. 30 choppa boyz will do 8.9 wounds of damage to a dread while 3 MANZ with twin killsaws will do 8 wounds to a dread. Against infantry, or if the dread has an invulnerability save, the boyz are way superior to the manz. It is only against T8 or Sv 2+ enemies that killsaws or klaws are better than choppas.

In seventh when you charged a dread with a squad of boyz, the boyz were just extra wounds for the nob, who had a PK that (hopefully) killed the dread. In 8th that is completely turned around. The PK will only do a wound or two of damage, while the 100+ choppa attacks are what brings the dread down.

The same is true of regular Nobz to some extent. While they can be reasonably survivable with runts or in a wagon, their damage output is mostly inferior to that of regular boyz, even against things like MEQs, dreads or rhinos.

Number of attacks for models is only useful against targets with T < Models Strength*2.

Once you hit toughness 8 for S 4 attacks, weight of numbers doesn't get much done.

30 Orks with choppas versus a Toughness 8 model averages 9.5 wounds before saves. If it has a 3+ save that's 3 wounds. If it's a 2+ save that's 1-2 wounds. That's bad.

3 killsaw meganobz averages 8 wounds against the same target toughness 8. Making them 800% better vs T8 2+ sv models compared to 30 boyz. Or slightly better than twice as good versus The 8 3+ save. This is assuming no ++ saves in assault.

That sounds great but that is not a lot of targets.

It is very true that Boyz are better now than ever, they can charge anything and have a chance to hurt it. However there are niches for other units where they outperform boys. Those niches are small but out there.

pismakron wrote:
The same is true of regular Nobz to some extent. While they can be reasonably survivable with runts or in a wagon, their damage output is mostly inferior to that of regular boyz, even against things like MEQs, dreads or rhinos.

Against multi-wound targets that boyz only wound on 5+ and BC nobz wound on 3+ or 4+, big choppa nobz outperform a unit of boyz due to 2 dealing 2 damage per hit.

Against T5+ with 3+ save 3 boyz will have 9 attacks, hit 6, wound 2. Assuming 2 wounds which do .66 damage

1 nob has 3 attacks, hits 2
against T5/6 wounds 1.33 which do 1.33 damage.
against T7 wounds 1 which do 1 damage on average
for completeness, the ammo runt also does 0.002 wounds to any target with T4+

Boyz are more point efficient per wound, but nobz are more reliable when you need something like a dread or daemon prince dead.

Ammo runts might even things out for nobz vs meganobz if the opponent has a lot of AT weaponry. However, meganobz are pretty tough vs anti-infantry weapons and there is (surprisingly) a number of lists with close to no AT weaponry but with tons of anti-infantry guns - at least in our meta. Anywayz, i think that this point is moot because boyz are still better than both for footslogging. AT needs are filled with PK characters and sheer number of attacks that boyz possess. If nobz are somewhat better than boyz at killing tougher stuff like razors, they still go down pretty easilly vs those razors. And they're not really needed.

Anywayz, you can field nobz and meganobz footslogging. Nobz NEED ammo runts to be viable in this case. Notably, they're way better for this role than they used to be in previous editions. So, it might be fun to convert all those grots to ammo runts and run a couple nob squads. Meganobz can be called a more extreme case of nobz. They have a smaller footprint, they're probably somewhat tougher vs anti-infantry and about as tough vs 2d weapons as nobz cause of ammo runts, much worse vs dedicated AT weapons like meltas and lazcannons. The damage output of nobz with big choppas is higher than that of manz vs light and medium vehicles.
As for speed, i haven't noticed much difference between 4+d6 and 5+d6.
...
What i'm trying to do here is desperately hang on to MANz because i have 15 of them and don't know what to do with them. Don't want to just wait for a codex release. But the best i can tell about manz is that they can be used in casual games but are not all that useful.

I just hope Ork Codex will bring significant decrease of Trukk (and Battlewagon?) cost. If that happens and motorized list becomes (semi)viable one could run small units of 3-5 Meganobz in Trukks as mini distraction or pain in the bottom.

Imagine if Nobz got the option to take Git Findaz. Would that be broken?

 Jidmah wrote:

pismakron wrote:
The same is true of regular Nobz to some extent. While they can be reasonably survivable with runts or in a wagon, their damage output is mostly inferior to that of regular boyz, even against things like MEQs, dreads or rhinos.

Against multi-wound targets that boyz only wound on 5+ and BC nobz wound on 3+ or 4+, big choppa nobz outperform a unit of boyz due to 2 dealing 2 damage per hit.

Against T5+ with 3+ save 3 boyz will have 9 attacks, hit 6, wound 2. Assuming 2 wounds which do .66 damage

1 nob has 3 attacks, hits 2
against T5/6 wounds 1.33 which do 1.33 damage.
against T7 wounds 1 which do 1 damage on average
for completeness, the ammo runt also does 0.002 wounds to any target with T4+

Boyz are more point efficient per wound, but nobz are more reliable when you need something like a dread or daemon prince dead.

I really don't think so. 6 nobz with shootas, big choppas and runts costs 180 points, exactly the same as 180 vanilla shoota boyz.

When shooting the nobz will do 0.67 wounds to a daemon prince or razorback. The shoota boyz will do 2.22 wounds to either.

In melee the nobz will do 8 wounds of damage to a daemon prince or 6 wounds to a razorback. They boyz will do 6.67 wounds to either.

And of course against anything with single-wound models the boyz are _massively_ better.

This is also why you see a lots of list with very little anti-tank stuff. Bolters, shootas and assallt cannos will do the job. Especially when supported by a bit of smite.

How is anyone doing with the Kommandos as a disruption unit?

I am questioning the min max tactics as overwatch can easily cripple them and they are then often wiped out during combat or morale phases.

 Jidmah wrote:

Against multi-wound targets that boyz only wound on 5+ and BC nobz wound on 3+ or 4+, big choppa nobz outperform a unit of boyz due to 2 dealing 2 damage per hit.

Against T5+ with 3+ save 3 boyz will have 9 attacks, hit 6, wound 2. Assuming 2 wounds which do .66 damage

1 nob

3 boyz cost 18 pts. Nob with a big choppa and an ammo runt costs 30. So, it's more fair to compare a bc nob to 5 boyz.

5 boyz will deal unsaved wounds to 3+ targets: 1.667 to t4, 1.111 to t5-7, 0.555 to t8
bc nob will deal unsaved wounds to 3+ targets: 0.667 x 2 to t4-t6, 0.5 x 2 to t7 and 0.333 x 2 to t8

So, they have pretty comparable damage output vs tougher stuff with 3+ armor but boyz are better vs 1-wound targets. Nobz will go ahead vs tougher 2+ armored stuff Keep in mind that boyz are easier to buff and have access to +1 attack if there are more of them. However, it's harder to get more boyz in striking range while nobz can easier concentrate power.

As for survivability, 5 6+ wounds are more preferable to 2 4+ wounds with a 6+ meatshield. Though, they're very close vs anti-infantry weaponry. And Nobz have way fewer ld issues.

So, in the end, regular nobz could be used on foot but they would perform close to how boyz would perform. And won't bring obsec and extra CP to the table. They can be used on foot but they are more fit for transports as they're basically concentrated boyz that take up less space.

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

pismakron wrote:
The same is true of regular Nobz to some extent. While they can be reasonably survivable with runts or in a wagon, their damage output is mostly inferior to that of regular boyz, even against things like MEQs, dreads or rhinos.

Against multi-wound targets that boyz only wound on 5+ and BC nobz wound on 3+ or 4+, big choppa nobz outperform a unit of boyz due to 2 dealing 2 damage per hit.

Against T5+ with 3+ save 3 boyz will have 9 attacks, hit 6, wound 2. Assuming 2 wounds which do .66 damage

1 nob has 3 attacks, hits 2
against T5/6 wounds 1.33 which do 1.33 damage.
against T7 wounds 1 which do 1 damage on average
for completeness, the ammo runt also does 0.002 wounds to any target with T4+

Boyz are more point efficient per wound, but nobz are more reliable when you need something like a dread or daemon prince dead.

I really don't think so. 6 nobz with shootas, big choppas and runts costs 180 points, exactly the same as 180 vanilla shoota boyz.

When shooting the nobz will do 0.67 wounds to a daemon prince or razorback. The shoota boyz will do 2.22 wounds to either.

In melee the nobz will do 8 wounds of damage to a daemon prince or 6 wounds to a razorback. They boyz will do 6.67 wounds to either.

The key difference is that nobz can go above those 6, while boyz are capped out. In addition, you will almost always get all nobz (up to 10) in combat with a vehicle or a character and almost never get 20+ boyz to fight such a model. Not to mention that daemon princes (like most characters) are a lot easier to charge than to shoot.

Also, don't go go blind on averages - especially multi-damage weapons make them a lot less useful for comparison.
For example, 3 boyz have a 36% chance to cause exactly one damage and 50% chance to cause no damage at all to any a prince or vehicle with a 3+ save, while the nob has a 53% chance to cause at least 2 damage against T6 and 43% against T7
The average result is not necessary a very likely result.

koooaei wrote:
So, they have pretty comparable damage output vs tougher stuff with 3+ armor but boyz are better vs 1-wound targets. Nobz will go ahead vs tougher 2+ armored stuff Keep in mind that boyz are easier to buff and have access to +1 attack if there are more of them. However, it's harder to get more boyz in striking range while nobz can easier concentrate power.

As for survivability, 5 6+ wounds are more preferable to 2 4+ wounds with a 6+ meatshield. Though, they're very close vs anti-infantry weaponry. And Nobz have way fewer ld issues.

Again, I agree with you - IMHO for footsloggers, this is not an either nobz or boyz decision. I've had good success with mixing two units of nobz with huge blobs of boyz. Nobz lose any vulnerability to moral due to ld 30 and when an enemy tries to wipe a unit of boyz through moral, you'll almost have one or two standing due to Keepin' Order which denies kill points or maelstrom VP (although the banner nob also provides this). On the other hand, when something needs to die that would tie up your boyz for multiple turns, they are pretty likely to get the job done within one turn.

So, in the end, regular nobz could be used on foot but they would perform close to how boyz would perform. And won't bring obsec and extra CP to the table. They can be used on foot but they are more fit for transports as they're basically concentrated boyz that take up less space.

You do need 3 elites for a brigade, and you should bringt 3 units of boyz to any non-mechanized list anyways, so you wouldn't lose out on CP anyways.
As for objective secured, most people here ignore the tournament rules pack, so when I'm going to benefit from obsec, this discussion will be obsolete anyways. I'm not convinced that there are a ton of units with obsec that could steal an objective from a unit of nobz anyways.

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

pismakron wrote:
The same is true of regular Nobz to some extent. While they can be reasonably survivable with runts or in a wagon, their damage output is mostly inferior to that of regular boyz, even against things like MEQs, dreads or rhinos.

Against multi-wound targets that boyz only wound on 5+ and BC nobz wound on 3+ or 4+, big choppa nobz outperform a unit of boyz due to 2 dealing 2 damage per hit.

Against T5+ with 3+ save 3 boyz will have 9 attacks, hit 6, wound 2. Assuming 2 wounds which do .66 damage

1 nob has 3 attacks, hits 2
against T5/6 wounds 1.33 which do 1.33 damage.
against T7 wounds 1 which do 1 damage on average
for completeness, the ammo runt also does 0.002 wounds to any target with T4+

Boyz are more point efficient per wound, but nobz are more reliable when you need something like a dread or daemon prince dead.

I really don't think so. 6 nobz with shootas, big choppas and runts costs 180 points, exactly the same as 180 vanilla shoota boyz.

When shooting the nobz will do 0.67 wounds to a daemon prince or razorback. The shoota boyz will do 2.22 wounds to either.

In melee the nobz will do 8 wounds of damage to a daemon prince or 6 wounds to a razorback. They boyz will do 6.67 wounds to either.

And of course against anything with single-wound models the boyz are _massively_ better.

This is also why you see a lots of list with very little anti-tank stuff. Bolters, shootas and assallt cannos will do the job. Especially when supported by a bit of smite.

Just had to point out the 180 vanilla Boyz for 180 points. If only. That would be a green tide we could be proud of.

You do need 3 elites for a brigade, and you should bringt 3 units of boyz to any non-mechanized list anyways, so you wouldn't lose out on CP anyways.
As for objective secured, most people here ignore the tournament rules pack, so when I'm going to benefit from obsec, this discussion will be obsolete anyways. I'm not convinced that there are a ton of units with obsec that could steal an objective from a unit of nobz anyways.

The issue with this is that Nobz are probably too expensive to be a great brigade option, unless your fast attack and heavy slots are min units.

Are we talking about actually fielding a brigade or hypothetically losing CP if fielding a brigade was actually worthwhile below 3000 points?

 Jidmah wrote:
Are we talking about actually fielding a brigade or hypothetically losing CP if fielding a brigade was actually worthwhile below 3000 points?

Yeah, going to have to agree with Jidmah's sentiment here. A brigade for Orks is overkill given that our stuff beyond boyz is fairly expensive meaning that even if we use grotz to fill up the troop slots, we'll use too many points filling the other slots to get the CP, unless you use min squads which takes away a lot of the point for having the CP's if you take a barebones army.

How would you position, move to combat, what do you target/engage (alone or with boyz?) with your Warboss in next few examples:

1) Boss footslogging with Boyz
2) Boss in Trukk (army either completely motorized or partially motorized)
3) Boss on Bike with footslogging Boyz
4) Boss on Bike with motorized army


Same thing but with KFF Big Mek (do you even engage combat with him?):

1) Big Mek footslogging with Boyz
2) Big Mek on bike with footslogging Boyz
3) Big Mek on bike with motorized army

Azhday wrote:
How would you position, move to combat, what do you target/engage (alone or with boyz?) with your Warboss in next few examples:
1) Boss footslogging with Boyz

In my experience footslogging warbosses are there only for morale purpose or to fill a mandatory HQ slot. The best loadout IMHO is a big choppa and a shoota, a 64 points warboss, basically the same price of a weirdboy.

Azhday wrote:

2) Boss in Trukk (army either completely motorized or partially motorized)

Never tried that. I've run ghaz in a BW in a list with 3 BW full of boyz. Decent but quite expensive and against opponents with tons of anti tank you may be screwed since the beginning. I wouldn't embark a simple warboss in a vehicle, a biker one is certainly better.

Azhday wrote:

3) Boss on Bike with footslogging Boyz

One of the most common option. The speed granted by the bike makes the warboss useful for many purpose, not only to morale. In this case a pk is a good investment.

Azhday wrote:

4) Boss on Bike with motorized army

A mix between case 2 and 3 probably since I usually run a biker boss even in the list with ghaz plus 3 BWs. His versatility makes him a great choice.

Azhday wrote:

Same thing but with KFF Big Mek (do you even engage combat with him?):

1) Big Mek footslogging with Boyz
2) Big Mek on bike with footslogging Boyz
3) Big Mek on bike with motorized army

I usually include a biker big mek and I tipycally keep him out of combat. His purpose is to give the invuln, and thanks to the bike he also has 6 S5 shots and can turbo boost to an objective in a later turn. Eventually he can tarpit a shooty unit. But I never give him close combat weapons.

Does the rule;
Hang On! of the kill tank prevent lootas from hitting? if its moved.

Hang on states that embarked models may only hit in the shooting phase on a 6+, but deffgunz are heavy, thus the models must subtract 1 from hit rolls if they have moved. So technically they can never roll a 6?

It applies after all the other modifiers, i think.