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 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Tankbustas already are great, they just lack survivability. 4+ armor might be the right way, or a point drop on tank hammers and rokkit pistols to use them as ablative wounds might work. Nobz showed how it can work, now let's apply it to other units

I think tankbustas just need one thing: a 35-40 points trukk. Maybe a 2 points cheaper rokkit launcha.

In my opinion, they should also be viable without a transport. To do that, they need more wounds per points spent, and the only way to do that currently is using squigs. If tank hammers and rokkit pistols drop in points you could have 12 ablative wounds for 9 rokkits. You would still have the option to just put up to 12 rokkits in a trukk.

The killkannon need to be completly re-written, it's currently almost as deadly as lootas guns or big choppas.

Being as good as two of the best weapons in the codex is not a bad thing, if the points match

For 30ish points (and mounted on BS5+ vehicles) it should be something like 2D6 shots S10 Ap-3 Damage 3 (or D6) range 36'' (or even better).

Your are still thinking in terms of 7th when it comes to strength. S8 would be plenty since it would wound about anything on 3+ or 4+. I agree on it being 36" range to match big shootaz and kannons mounted on the same platform, also more damage is needed. It's a killkannon, not a thiswillhurtalittlekannon.

A looted tank with such a kill kannon and up to 3 smaller gunz (rokkits, shootas, skorchas), with no transport capacity, for approx 90-100 points it's something we lack completely. I'd like some sort of cheap leman russ than a gun wagon with tons of weapons. Mostly because the looted wagon I modeled just has a kill kannon and a big shoota

I'd be happy with just a regular leman russ for orks. I guess your looted wagon could still pass for a big trakk.

 Jidmah wrote:

Your are still thinking in terms of 7th when it comes to strength. S8 would be plenty since it would wound about anything on 3+ or 4+. I agree on it being 36" range to match big shootaz and kannons mounted on the same platform, also more damage is needed. It's a killkannon, not a thiswillhurtalittlekannon.

It's not a matter of 7th or 8th edition. Orks already have several ranged S8 weapons, but nothing that is S9 or 10. A weapon can be worth taking if it actually adds some variety. I don't want killkannons to compete with kannons, KMKs or rokkits, they should be something similar to the bursta cannon or the stompa big gun. S10 is actually better than S8 aganist lots of things, not only to wound on 3s against T8 but also because T5 units are quite common in fact: all bikers, TWC, dark eldar transports, etc... The main reason to dream about an efficient killkannon is to have a single thing that could be reliable against T8, big stuff. Otherwise I'd spam tankbustas, buggies/koptas or artillery, there's no need of a gun platform that spams weapons that can already be spammed.

Tankbustas are more point efficient in situations vs ALL high Toughness Targets.

Clearly they are better vs Vehicles because of their reroll.

Lootas 17pt / model
Tankbustas 17pt / model

Both BS = 5+

Deff Gun
48" | S7 | AP-1 | HvyD3 | Dam2

RokitLauncha
24" | S8 | AP -2 | Ass1 | Dam3

Tankbustas reroll misses vs vehicles and are the clear winner vs Vehicles.

Did calcs for T8 2++ MC

(Shots)(Hits)(Wound)(FailedSv)(Dam)

Tankbustas
(1)(2/6)(3/6)(2/6)(3) = 0.17

Lootas
(1)(2/6)(2/6)(2/6)(2) = 0.07
(2)(2/6)(2/6)(2/6)(2) = 0.15
(3)(2/6)(2/6)(2/6)(2) = 0.22

So all you get with Lootas is the trade off between Range and that they Cant move. Would you agree Tankbustas are more point efficient in most situations except MAYBE MSU.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but has anyone tried out the blitz boma using more than 1? It seems on paper to be a good anti-horde unit if you take multiples of them. I was thinking about 3 of them and dropping 30d6 needing 4+ on large infantry squads to kill them with mortal wounds.

It maxes out at 10 mortal wounds.

10 dice actually, not wounds. I've also found the Burna Bommer to be better due to Explosive Demise and the extra BS4 big shoota. Bombing doesn't do a lot to vehicles, monsters or bikes anyways, so the limitation to infantry rarely matters. Just stay away from skorcha missiles.

I mean 10 dice can only inflict 10 mortal wounds. I get that wording is important in most cases. They are the same for this.

I was talking about using 3 bombers and bombing the same squad. Each would generate 10 dice. That's how I was getting 30.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Shrapnelbait wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sad that out "best" plane is good because it blows up.

Sad...but kinda orky. Now we just need better 'grot-guided' bombs

I wish that all ork vehicles exploded more often. It would be super orky, and considering how often ork vehicles are going to be right up in the enemy's face it would probably be to our advantage most of the time. I'd like it if ork vehicles that blow up on a 6+ currently (similar to most other races chance of exploding) blew up on a 5+ instead, and many vehicles that currently don't explode like warbuggies would blow up on a 6+. Skorchas should blow up on a 4+ like Burna Bommers.

Giving Ramshackle to all vehicles would be a nice and fluffy bonus too.

I wish we could rig them to explode...maybe on a 2+ like bomb squigs. I'd finally find use for all my trukks!

I've been kicking around the idea of a walker wall for a while now, and I think this would be pretty fun. Who knows? It might even be semi-competative after we get a codex. Care to comment?



The Morkas would protect clusters of Kans, and one of the Meks would protect the Gorka and another kan cluster. The other Meks would zip around providing repairs and force field where needed. If I got around to building something like this, the Mek conversions would have to be based on sentinels so everything could be a walker.

I've found that it's generally better to get more kanz instead of deff dreads.
Morkanaughts are not amazing. Better get another mek for KFF and Gorkanaughts for chopping, fixes and more CP from detachments. You'll need CP cause kanz don't get to re-roll charges and you need to get 1-st turn. Besides, it can be pretty valuable to re-roll a failed 5++ from time to time.
Kanz can use kustom mega blastas to play around with wound allocation. This trick can be pretty good for them.
Try getting a banner nob. He will be invaluable by the time you get to mellee.

I also liked how Badrukk performed. He started the game in a naught, disembarked on a point and spent the game shooting eventually paying off.

I'd cut one morkanaut, you already have 3 KFFs in that list. You can add more kans and/or a lot of artillery with the spared points. If you're allowed to bring FW units there's the bursta tank that fits the list quite nicely.

Oh yeah, adding big/mek bunz is also essential to score backlines and add a bit of shooting.

Glitcha wrote:I was talking about using 3 bombers and bombing the same squad. Each would generate 10 dice. That's how I was getting 30.

That's not how it works. The first bommer would get 10 dice, the second one 5 and the last one 2 or 3 - assuming you roll average each time. You resolve the whole bomb before moving the next bommer, so they would just count surviving models for their bombs.
The burna bommer still has some decent shooting. I never had a problem taking out units of 10 GEQ with each of them.

malcontent999 wrote:The Morkas would protect clusters of Kans, and one of the Meks would protect the Gorka and another kan cluster. The other Meks would zip around providing repairs and force field where needed. If I got around to building something like this, the Mek conversions would have to be based on sentinels so everything could be a walker.

Meks zipping around does not work well. If Big Meks on warbikes move more than 5", they may not use mek tools.
Big Meks on foot do not have that limitation, so you can advance them for 5"+d6 and still repair a model within 3". So they are actually faster than meks on warbikes. Considering that they usually have no ranged weapons, there is no downside to just advancing them every turn, which makes them the same speed as the kanz and nauts.

Therefore I would just drop all the bikers for regular meks.

Hey guys, weirdboy question here: Do gretchins (ammo runts, etc.) count as "ork models" for the purpose of Waaagh Energy bonus when manifesting a psychic power? Looking at their datasheets, it seems they do. Gretchins have the "ork, clan, infantry, gretchin" keywords, and boyz for example have the "ork, clan, infantry, boyz" keywords. Same goes for ammo runts, grot gunners, etc. They all have the "ork" keyword just like any "true" ork model. What do you think?

Ashkayel wrote:
Hey guys, weirdboy question here: Do gretchins (ammo runts, etc.) count as "ork models" for the purpose of Waaagh Energy bonus when manifesting a psychic power? Looking at their datasheets, it seems they do. Gretchins have the "ork, clan, infantry, gretchin" keywords, and boyz for example have the "ork, clan, infantry, boyz" keywords. Same goes for ammo runts, grot gunners, etc. They all have the "ork" keyword just like any "true" ork model. What do you think?

Yup, it works this way.

pismakron wrote:
They should remove Burnas, Tankbustas and Lootas as separate units, and replace them with an elite-slot called Dakka Boyz or something like that:

Unit size is 5-20

Ordinary boy statline and 6 points per model

They all come with shootas as default

Every boy can replace his shoota with either a burna, big shoota, rokkit launcha or deffgun

The prices should be something like:

Burna: 4 points

Big Shoota: 4 points

Rokkit Launcha: 8 points

Deffgun: 10 points

Special ability:

Grot target practice: In the shooting phase this unit can target any enemy unit that is closer than 1" to friendly gretchins, and when doing so it can use its WS in place of its BS when rolling to hit. Every miss causes a mortal wound on the unit of friendly gretchin

That way you could field them on foot with some ablative wounds, or you could kit them all out for use in a transport. You could also boost their accuracy at the cost of sacrificing some grots.

I love the grot target practice, that's pretty darn orky too!

Thanks for the advice. Are deff dreads really performing that poorly? They're some of my favorite models in the range, but more Kans are still cool, I guess. Looks like I'll be dropping one of the Morks. Too bad, I love the concept. Probably go half big meks on bikes and half on foot. The banner nobs play well? They seem so expensive and easy to get left behind. FW is allowed, but I'm not using tanks. Has anyone tried a shooty meka dread? I know it's technically allowed, but I don't like pulling things like wound shenanigans. Is it worth taking a few scattered around for the extra ap?

The KMK always seemed like kind of an underwhelming main gun for what is supposed to be a big, bad Knight-equivalent. With the current rules it is even worse. If they gave it rule similar to "Mekbrain-Enhanced Weapon Sights" like the Wazbom Blastajet that would go a long way towards making it better.

I got my Meka-Dread a little while back, but I haven't assembled or painted it yet. Rattler Kannons and Big Zzappas both look really good. Once I get enough KMK Mek Gunz built I was thinking a double-Big Zzappa Meka Dread with a KFF would be a good unit to stay with them. I think I'd stick Rattler Kannons on one if it was escorting Killa Kanz.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The KMK always seemed like kind of an underwhelming main gun for what is supposed to be a big, bad Knight-equivalent. With the current rules it is even worse. If they gave it rule similar to "Mekbrain-Enhanced Weapon Sights" like the Wazbom Blastajet that would go a long way towards making it better.

I got my Meka-Dread a little while back, but I haven't assembled or painted it yet. Rattler Kannons and Big Zzappas both look really good. Once I get enough KMK Mek Gunz built I was thinking a double-Big Zzappa Meka Dread with a KFF would be a good unit to stay with them. I think I'd stick Rattler Kannons on one if it was escorting Killa Kanz.

Can the meka-dread replace both klaws? I thought it was only 1

malcontent999 wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The KMK always seemed like kind of an underwhelming main gun for what is supposed to be a big, bad Knight-equivalent. With the current rules it is even worse. If they gave it rule similar to "Mekbrain-Enhanced Weapon Sights" like the Wazbom Blastajet that would go a long way towards making it better.

I got my Meka-Dread a little while back, but I haven't assembled or painted it yet. Rattler Kannons and Big Zzappas both look really good. Once I get enough KMK Mek Gunz built I was thinking a double-Big Zzappa Meka Dread with a KFF would be a good unit to stay with them. I think I'd stick Rattler Kannons on one if it was escorting Killa Kanz.

Can the meka-dread replace both klaws? I thought it was only 1

You're correct, it's only one. So far, in my experience, meka dreadz are what Morkanauts should have been shooting and loadout wise. The rattler kannon is my favourite given its versatility in being able to have a decent volume of shots and AP/Damage against a multitude of targets. KFF for sure if you don't have enough meks in your army. Otherwise, the free price of nothing for mega charga always works out since you're never forced to use it.

Also to answer your previous question, deff dreadz unfortunately don't synergize very well with their shooting options (you basically always want to be advancing with them). And their full CCW loadout is both expensive and hard to make the most out of since you can't run and charge. Add into the fact that they're not particularly durable compared to most walkers around their price point and that's why you have people saying more Kanz over dreadz.

Banner Nob seems to be a preference thing. Personally, I feel just getting more Kanz rather than investing in a Banner Nob makes more sense, given how expensive and vulnerable the Banner Nob is.

Banner nob pays off emidiately if at least 3 kanz get to strike offence-wise. And you can make use of his buff with multiple squads for a couple turns.

Sure, if you're playing low point games, it's more reasonable to get 4 kanz instead of 3 and a banner nob. But if you allready have 10+ his aura will be quite useful. Don't forget, he can strike in mellee himself. Also, he might prove useful for when your kanz get awful ld rolls and try to run away. It's just a 6+ but it might still come into play with kanz. Of course, it's more reliable to keep a warboss nearby. But we're talking about a banner nob. And those are just perks apart from his main job.

Dang, I read the Meka-Dread rules wrong. I thought for sure it could replace both arms, but I checked and you guys are right.

Thanks for pointing that out so I didn't spend a bunch of time converting a second Big Zzappa.

So, i'm branching into Orks.

The last Orks i purchased were editions ago, when I split the battle for Vedros box with a friend. I moved away and let him keep the minis, which sucks, because you can't easily get that warboss. I got one off of ebay, though. In any case, I now have 1 Ork model. A warboss with power klaw.

Where to go from here?

On my list-o-things is:

Lots of boys. Feeling like I need 90 of these guys. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Storm boyz. These are pretty solid.

A weirdboy, at least 1, for Da Jump.

Going to treat this as a melee army. I don't care about Ork shooting.

Question time:

Are trukks worth it? I feel like their capacity is so limited that they're not.

Is the "Start collecting" box worth it? I'm not convinced that Nobs are all that amazing, and while the Deff Dread looks cool, i'm not super psyched on him.

Finally, my plan is to make these Albinorks, with flesh painted with Pallid Wych Flesh, and lowlighted with nuln oil, highlighted with a white drybrush. The problem here is i can't base coat them with this, and painting that many orks might literally kill me.

Any thoughts, feedback, help would be appreciated

If it could swap both arms, I'd probaby field several.

Marmatag, just start with boyz for now. It is hard to give advice currently, with chapter approved just around the corner. Right now trukks are bad...in two months, who knows?

I would just paint your boyz, get their color and scheme figgured out, then pick up more when CA and the codex drops.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Marmatag, just start with boyz for now. It is hard to give advice currently, with chapter approved just around the corner. Right now trukks are bad...in two months, who knows?

I would just paint your boyz, get their color and scheme figgured out, then pick up more when CA and the codex drops.

Ok, that's fair.

Is there a $:points efficient way to acquire boys? hehe

If you're willing to buy second hand it is still easy to find AOBR Slugga Boyz for cheap. They made a gazillion of them. It's not quite like late 7th edition where people were unloading ork armies left and right for 75% off, but it should still be relatively easy to find used ork armies with lots of AOBR Boyz for 50% off.

Right now Boyz, Weird Boyz and Stormboyz are great, but our codex will probably be out soon and then everything could be different.

You can do like i did and get your hands on bad units for cheap (75% of the codex) and hope they get better some time later. Well, boyz and Ghazzy did. Meganobz did for a short while and than went back into oblivion. Keepin' waitin'

Ebay has a lot of old ork stuff, and some of the newer kits, but prices are usually pretty high. It's hard to justify $2 per boy when you can buy the new kit of 11 (with nob and bits) for $25 and the discounters. Plus you get the rokkit for a tankbusta and two extra torsos.

I like to troll the "new" listings with buy-it-now...sometimes people put up stuff cheap but it gets picked off pretty quickly (kind of like, well, orks...)

I've bought tons of orks boyz by ebay. Basically a 75% discount for 80ish of them, by different auctions, and I've only searched the unpainted ones. Just have some patience, by the time the codex drops you sure will find some cheap lot to buy.

The AOBR nobz are very cheap as well. All slugga/choppa but in 8th edition that loadout is actually fair even for nobz leading mobz of boyz. And butting the choppa for a spared pk from the boyz or bikers kit is super easy. Proper big choppas are only included in the nobz box though.

About trukks, artillery, wagons, kans, etc... I'd encourage to scratch built all of this stuff, allowing you to save a lot of money. The possibility of converting stuff has always been the main reason why Orks are my favorite faction.

Stormboyz are extremely expensive. I'd skip them if I was someone that is starting to build an army. Maybe you can convert 30 boyz but putting a scratch built rocket behind their backs.

Also, removing paint from plastics will make everything more available and less expensive. The injection moulded plastic miniatures are styrene based, so it is important not to use any of the common solvents when removing the paint (isopropanol is okay though, but it is not very effective at dissolving the paints)

I usually make a dilute solution of caustic soda or use a caustic soap, mix in a bit of wallpaper paste, and then let it sit in a sealed jar overnight. Rinse with water and perhaps a light acid. It works well.

With metal miniatures you can of course use a polar hydrocarbon solvent like acetone or tetrahydrofuran.

Or just welcome the gitz from another Waaagh! to join yours

I have a question regarding Kommando loadout. It seems that Kommandos are being used as an extra boyz mob that can drop in unexpectedly then charge. If this is the case is there a good reason to equip them with burnas (other than it's free). You land out of range for the burnas so won't get to shoot with them before you charge. Should the Nob be armed with anything other than a choppa?