Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**koooaei**

Some lists that involve characters from different clans are gona be 'nerfed'. Not because they'll be worse than they're now. They'll be worse than mono-clan lists.

**Jidmah**

Agree. The chance of lists having to decide between Grotznik or Thrakka is pretty high. Then again, you could just buy a supreme command detachment of weirdboyz and your favourite off-clan characters like CSM and DG do.

**Shrapnelbait**

Glitcha wrote:
I know we talk a lot about list building, but does anyone have any good strategies?

My current favorite is bomaz and kommandos. Use the bomba to clear a hole for the kommando's to show up where that unit was.

I learned the hard way not to try to flank with my Kanz. They just don't have the speed, and never made it into the fight so they were a waste of points. Straight up the middle from here on.

**mhalko1**

Glitcha wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but has anyone tried out the blitz boma using more than 1? It seems on paper to be a good anti-horde unit if you take multiples of them. I was thinking about 3 of them and dropping 30d6 needing 4+ on large infantry squads to kill them with mortal wounds.
It maxes out at 10 mortal wounds.

10 dice actually, not wounds. I've also found the Burna Bommer to be better due to Explosive Demise and the extra BS4 big shoota. Bombing doesn't do a lot to vehicles, monsters or bikes anyways, so the limitation to infantry rarely matters. Just stay away from skorcha missiles.
I mean 10 dice can only inflict 10 mortal wounds. I get that wording is important in most cases. They are the same for this.

I was talking about using 3 bombers and bombing the same squad. Each would generate 10 dice. That's how I was getting 30.

yes on a huge horde you could inflict 30 wounds.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glane wrote:
malcontent999 wrote:
I've been kicking around the idea of a walker wall for a while now, and I think this would be pretty fun. Who knows? It might even be semi-competative after we get a codex. Care to comment?

Spoiler:

Detachment 1

Big Mek on bike- 81
KFF- 20

Morkanaut- 270
Mega-kannon- 23
Mega-blasta- 9
2 Rokkits- 24
2 Twin-Big Shootas- 28
KFF- 20
-374

Gorkanaut- 295
Skorcha- 17
2 Rokkits- 24
2 Twin-Big Shootas- 24
-364

Deff Dread- 74
2 Klaws- 45
2 Big Shootas- 12
-131

Detachment 2

Big Mek on bike- 81
KFF- 20

Morkanaut- 270
Mega-kannon- 23
Mega-blasta- 9
2 Rokkits- 24
2 Twin-Big Shootas- 28
KFF- 20
-374

4 Kans- 204
4 Rokkits- 48
-252

4 Kans- 204
4 Rokkits- 48
-252

Detachment 3

Big Mek on bike- 81
KFF- 20

Deff dread- 74
2 klaws- 45
2 Big Shootas- 12
-131

5 Kans- 255
5 Rokkits- 60
-315

4 Kans- 204
4 Rokkits- 48
-252

4 Kans- 204
4 Rokkits- 48
-252

3000 pts with 6 CP

The Morkas would protect clusters of Kans, and one of the Meks would protect the Gorka and another kan cluster. The other Meks would zip around providing repairs and force field where needed. If I got around to building something like this, the Mek conversions would have to be based on sentinels so everything could be a walker.

I actually took a list very similar to this to a 2000 point tournament recently. It did extremely badly; in fact, I was tabled every game.

Morkanaut, Gorkanaut, 2 Dreads, 6 Kans, Meka-Dread, Battlewagon, Big Mek on Warbike with KFF.

The idea is that you advance forwards, spraying a few shots in whilst the fast stuff (Mek, Battlewagon, Meka-Dread) comes up a flank. Everything stays under a KFF as they close in.

The problem? It simply doesn't work. My Nauts were focused down first turn every game. A 5++ save simply can't save you from focused Lascannon fire, or anything else that cares to glance your way. Often times I was losing Dreads not to Lascannons and Krak Missiles, but to Heavy Bolters. Shooting is non-existent; my Morkanaut caused more wounds on itself over the day than it did to the enemy. First mission of the day I went against 8 Penitant Engines; I had nothing left bottom of Turn 2. Even when you do make it into melee, your damage isn't that impressive. In Game 3 a lone vanilla Baneblade accounted for my Morkanaut, my Gorkanaut, 2 Deff Dreads and my Meka-Dread; the Nauts it killed by shooting, one dread and a Meka were killed trying to charge it (5+ Overwatch hurts) and the last Dread it ran over (hitting on 2+ with 9 Powerfist attacks turns out to be brutal).

These weren't WAAC lists I was fighting either; I didn't see a single Primarch on my boards all day. They were pretty much all fairly fluffy, casual lists that you'd fully expect to see in a FLGS. Hell the last guy I fought was Dark Eldar and the vast majority of his army could only wound me on 6's. He still tabled me by Turn 4.

Two weeks before I took the same list to another tournament and lost every game there too. I've been playing Orks since 2007, I know how to play the army and I can win with an infantry focused list no problem. But the Dread Mob doesn't work, it's really that simple.

So my advice is that if you really want to do the army because you love the theme and models, go for it. But don't expect it to be competitive. Because it really isn't.

This is very surprising. I find that mixing the mork/gork into heavy ork boy lists is extremely strong. The opponent has a choice but often times they can't kill it before he makes combat. They have always made their points back in games I played. I once swept a 7 strong termie squad with the slash attack on a gorkanaut. Some unlucky rolls for my opponent but still.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is it currently that causes Orks to not be able to hit at all? I can't seem to find both rules that end up being -2.

**Azhday**

Anyone tried taking down flyers with Kopta's melee weapons?

**JimOnMars**

Azhday wrote:
Anyone tried taking down flyers with Kopta's melee weapons?

No...I don't think they get nearly enough attacks. Assuming the default weapon, that's 4 s5 attacks, probably landing 2 1/2 of them, and maybe getting 1 wound. Killsaws might get 2 wounds, but cost way, way too much. You'd need 500 points of deffkoptas to take out 1 200 point flyer.

That wouldn't likely happen anyway because anyone who sees you field a deffkopta one knows you've spend 5% of your entire army one one fragile model. They would just plink them off the board en route to an easy tabling.

**Zomnivore**

I'm pretty excited after seeing the options the nids got.

They've made a really compelling list of hive fleet abilities.

**Mr.Pengwinn**

How is Deff Dread Mob style Orks doing? I know green tide is the current meta, but buying that many Orks sounds terrible

**Jidmah**

Azhday wrote:
Anyone tried taking down flyers with Kopta's melee weapons?

Succeeded doing that once to an already damaged storm talon with three koptaz charging it. It's one of the two fliers I managed to kill so far in 8th.

I wouldn't count on it ever happening again though. Too little attacks for too many points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
How is Deff Dread Mob style Orks doing? I know green tide is the current meta, but buying that many Orks sounds terrible

You tend to do OK against other index armies while ending up tabled against most armies that have a codex.

**Blackie**

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
How is Deff Dread Mob style Orks doing? I know green tide is the current meta, but buying that many Orks sounds terrible

Actually pure green tides are among the cheapest options with orks. You can buy a lot of used boyz by ebay for dirt cheap. Time for painting all the miniatures is the real issue.

Dread mobz are way more expensive, unless you scratch build all the walkers.

**Shrapnelbait**

Blackie wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
How is Deff Dread Mob style Orks doing? I know green tide is the current meta, but buying that many Orks sounds terrible

Actually pure green tides are among the cheapest options with orks. You can buy a lot of used boyz by ebay for dirt cheap. Time for painting all the miniatures is the real issue.

Dread mobz are way more expensive, unless you scratch build all the walkers.

I don't know, I've searched ebay several times looking for deals for orks. Maybe it's because I live in Canada, but by the time you add $15-25 in shipping, all the ebay prices are pretty much exactly the same price you would pay if you bought it in the store. Usually they are pre-assembled, so that would save you some time assembling them, but then you miss out on options for building and bits.

Many times the price starts out being less than store bought, but by the time the bidding ends (usually at the last minute) its as much or more than if you bought new.

**Geemoney**

Shrapnelbait wrote:

Many times the price starts out being less than store bought, but by the time the bidding ends (usually at the last minute) its as much or more than if you bought new.

That's because we are all bidding against each other!

**grnsknz**

Really valid comment about ebay.

I think the best is to look for deals in local wargamer FB groups if there are any in your city. But getting the big-big green tide is always a long run.

**office_waaagh**

To change the subject a bit, what does everyone like for dealing with pesky long-range units that park themselves in the enemy deployment zone? I've had some success with lootas using a truck as basically a bunker, but short of da Jumping in a big Boyz mob it's tough to get at the really dangerous parts of an enemy gunline. A decently screened heavy weapons squad or devastator squad can do a lot of damage without having to worry about deep-striking or infiltrating units too much.

It's a pain to watch the wounds get peeled off the big stuff by heavy weapons that you can't get at, and "bring a KFF and just wade through enemy fire" only goes so far. I was thinking of using aircraft, but I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks about this.

**Jidmah**

Air craft (burna bommer and dakka jet) only work if your target is an infantry units, as both fail to do any meaningful damage to vehicles with T6 or more. So for hellblasters, devs, snipers and the like they are a decent solution.

The only thing that had mediocre success at destroying backfield vehicles has been a blob of 15 lootaz, always using CP to re-roll '1' for shots. Once they start doing that the tend to die pretty fast though.

Kannons or Zzap guns might also work, but I'm currently lacking models to field more than 4, so no actual experience here.

**grnsknz**

Lootas in trukks: I also tried this and found it quite efficient, however:

- too much points - 10 lootas and trukk with a big dhoota is 252points.
- that makes it one of the best shooting ork vehicles, but it shouldn't move. It only camps one objective in the deployment zone that makes it a primary target anyway.
- in my games they were usually instantly shot to bitz by flyers or trukk shot, lootas charged in the same turn
- cannot fire overwatch from the trukk
- in my gaming group everyone remember lootas being pretty dangerous from 7th so they were shot dead in turn 1-2.

Now I am thinking about running several small squads of 5-6 lootas instead.

**pismakron**

office_waaagh wrote:
To change the subject a bit, what does everyone like for dealing with pesky long-range units that park themselves in the enemy deployment zone? I've had some success with lootas using a truck as basically a bunker, but short of da Jumping in a big Boyz mob it's tough to get at the really dangerous parts of an enemy gunline. A decently screened heavy weapons squad or devastator squad can do a lot of damage without having to worry about deep-striking or infiltrating units too much.

It's a pain to watch the wounds get peeled off the big stuff by heavy weapons that you can't get at, and "bring a KFF and just wade through enemy fire" only goes so far. I was thinking of using aircraft, but I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks about this.

The best solution by far is to use footslogging boyz. Some them will move and grab objectives, the rest will advance towards your enemies deployment zone. Using shootas is not a bad option.

Always remember to play with objectives that score every turn.

Every other option we have access to has significant disadvantages:

1)Lootas are far too fragile on foot, and if placed in a bunker they are too expensive.

2) Kannons are not bad, but they are not good either. You need 15 kannon-shots to kill a rhino. They are far less fragile than lootas, but they will still fold like wet paper when targeted. Zapp guns are like Kannons, but slightly better against walkers, terminators and bikes, and slightly worse against anything T8.

3) Kustom Mega Cannons are better than Big Gunz, but they are still not great. To have any real impact you need at least six of them which will cost you more than 150£ which is insane.

4) The Shokk Attack Gun is totally useless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another idea might be a squad of 5-6 kommandos with rokkits. Take 10-12 squads.

**Jidmah**

pismakron wrote:
2) Kannons are not bad, but they are not good either. You need 15 kannon-shots to kill a rhino. They are far less fragile than lootas, but they will still fold like wet paper when targeted. Zapp guns are like Kannons, but slightly better against walkers, terminators and bikes, and slightly worse against anything T8.

3) Kustom Mega Cannons are better than Big Gunz, but they are still not great. To have any real impact you need at least six of them which will cost you more than 150£ which is insane.

I disagree on those two. Both kannons and Zzap guns are quite a chore to kill for most enemies I have faced. Units that enter your backfield like terminators, flyiers, bikes or other flanking stuff can usually only kill one or two kannons per turn due to the natural limitations on how many units you can shot and charge, when long range weapons like lascannons start killing your 27 point big gunz... I guess that's pretty much like spending 27 point to prevent them from shooting for a turn or two.

The KMK, on the other hand is a much more valuable target, killed just as easily by backfield units and you have less of them. In addition -1 to hit is handed out like candy to everyone, so it will overheat as often as it hits.

Another idea might be a squad of 5-6 kommandos with rokkits. Take 10-12 squads.

Buggies are strictly better for 3 points more per two rokkits. And they aren't stellar either.

**Glane**

pismakron wrote:

3) Kustom Mega Cannons are better than Big Gunz, but they are still not great. To have any real impact you need at least six of them which will cost you more than 150£ which is insane.

Can I recommend chopping up a Trukk kit? You can get 3 Gunz that way with a pile of gubbins left over, and getting a few pieces of junk to finish the job off is pretty straightforward. I got a bag of 30 spark plugs from my mechanic for free; he was just throwing them away.

Spoiler:

**MannyMcCoconut**

That's a clever use of spark plugs. I like em.

**Sluggaloo**

Sorry for going off-topic but I am so going to steal your idea. Those are amazing! Just truck parts and spark plugs you say?

**JimOnMars**

lolz, nice & orky!

**FacebookJunkie**

Try both these for ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTgRLlOUQpA

https://www.facebook.com/pg/MekGazbag/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1607949496116746

**Ashkayel**

More ideas, these are mine:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-33335-54648_Ork%20Mek%20Gunz%20Kitbash.html

**Zomnivore**

I know the morkonaut is bad right now but I really love the model, and I gotta have one.

I hope they buff it.

In the mean time how do I get the best use out of it?

**Glane**

Sluggaloo wrote:
Sorry for going off-topic but I am so going to steal your idea. Those are amazing! Just truck parts and spark plugs you say?

No problem, glad to help. You need to cut a few pieces with a hobby saw and do some pinning, but yep, with just spark plugs and a single trukk kit you can replicate that build. I used a piece of electrical wire and some little pieces of plasticard tube to do the wires, but they're optional.

I did another build ages ago which used airhoze nozzles and rifle bullet casings to make Kannons.

Spoiler:

You can honestly use just about anything once you get the chassis built; I did Zzap guns just using microphone jacks.

In the mean time how do I get the best use out of it?

Try and get into melee with it. Don't bother to fire anything except the Rokkits and Big Shootas, and Advance every turn until you can charge. Basically you're treating it like a less killy Gorkanaut.

Also don't be fooled by the KFF; it does not provide much in the way of protection. Take it since you may as well, but don't be surprised when your Morka disappears turn 1 even with a KFF attached.

**SemperMortis**

What's the best way to deal with backfield enemies? Kommandos.
What's the best way to field Kommandos? 15 with free Nob/BC and 2 burnas
Why are big shootas a bad idea for Kommandos? For a similar price you could do MSU lootas

My competitive list which has been doing very well for me is based on fielding 90 Kommandos in 6 units. I've been thinking about trying out even more and fielding MSU grot units to fill in the gaps. Why are Kommandos so good? They ignore our enemies best and our worst phase....the shooting phase. My opponent has to guess where I'm going to have a giant army magically appear turn 1-3. Better then that, they arrive at full strength. Augment that by adding in 30 boyz and a weirdboy with "Da Jump" and you have 120 models in your enemies face turn 1.

MSU Kommandos doesn't work because they are too squishy and have no punching power, you are essentially handing your opponent first blood.

**Matthew**

Are trukkboys useful nowadays? What else can I put in a Trukk to make it worth its points?

**Waaaghpower**

SemperMortis wrote:
What's the best way to deal with backfield enemies? Kommandos.
What's the best way to field Kommandos? 15 with free Nob/BC and 2 burnas
Why are big shootas a bad idea for Kommandos? For a similar price you could do MSU lootas

My competitive list which has been doing very well for me is based on fielding 90 Kommandos in 6 units. I've been thinking about trying out even more and fielding MSU grot units to fill in the gaps. Why are Kommandos so good? They ignore our enemies best and our worst phase....the shooting phase. My opponent has to guess where I'm going to have a giant army magically appear turn 1-3. Better then that, they arrive at full strength. Augment that by adding in 30 boyz and a weirdboy with "Da Jump" and you have 120 models in your enemies face turn 1.

MSU Kommandos doesn't work because they are too squishy and have no punching power, you are essentially handing your opponent first blood.

I disagree slightly. The best Kommando loadout is 5 with free Nob and 2 Burnas. For the same price as your 15-Kommando blob, I can take three times as many Burnas and three times as many Nobz - Though only one Nob gets a BC. This also lets me try and charge three times, which is a nice buff when trying to tie up enemy artillery so that it can't shoot back at me next turn.
Sure, if you're taking six units, you probably don't have the extra drops or detachments to break that up into 18 units, but the more you MSU, the more you get free Burnas and free extra wounds from the Nobz.

**JimOnMars**

Matthew wrote:
Are trukkboys useful nowadays? What else can I put in a Trukk to make it worth its points?

Sadly no. 12 boyz aren't enough to justify the 76 point trukk. For just +24 points, you can upgrade boyz to stormboyz, and for +36 points you can upgrade them to kommandos. With the inability to get out of the trukk after it moves, and it's vulnerability to just about everything (it is NOT more durable than before even with 10 wounds because of high-damage weapons) there is just no way to justify it.

Far better are kommandos who have a very good chance to make their charge anywhere on turn 1. Not even a solid gold (or red) trukk helps you there.

Since our shooting has been basically eviscerated, there is nothing in our codex that you can put in a trukk to make it worth it. Currently, if a unit like that existed, it would have to have negative points.