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The best you can get out of a trukk is probably a unit of nobz.

Waaaghpower wrote:

I disagree slightly. The best Kommando loadout is 5 with free Nob and 2 Burnas. For the same price as your 15-Kommando blob, I can take three times as many Burnas and three times as many Nobz - Though only one Nob gets a BC. This also lets me try and charge three times, which is a nice buff when trying to tie up enemy artillery so that it can't shoot back at me next turn.
Sure, if you're taking six units, you probably don't have the extra drops or detachments to break that up into 18 units, but the more you MSU, the more you get free Burnas and free extra wounds from the Nobz.

Sure, but in order to start 18 units of Kommandos in reserve you need 18 units of whatever to drop on the board.

Plus a metric ton of HQs if you want to have any CPs at all.

MSU kommandos are meant to be distractions or to sit on lonesome objectives.

Large groups of kommandos work only in lists like SemperMortis' one, with tons of them. Basically another way to play the green tide.

Trukk boyz are not worthy because trukks cost as much as the unit embarked. Trukks can be decent transports for tankbustas and nobz. If meganobz, burnaboyz and flash gitz were better they could be useful to carry them too.

Since nobz have no meaningful shooting, it's better to put them into T8 battlewagons with another unit of 10 or some characters.

Currently I'm also experimenting with battlewagons that have two units of 10 boyz with a PK nob each. Since you basically never get the bonus for 20 boyz in bw boyz, there is no downside to just fielding two units.
On the upside you have two troop units towards your battalion and another nob and lower chance to fail your charge completely.
Despite being less efficient than BC, I put PKs on them since the most expensive part is always the battlewagon - I can easily afford the PKs but not another BW.

 Blackie wrote:

Trukk boyz are not worthy because trukks cost as much as the unit embarked. Trukks can be decent transports for tankbustas and nobz. If meganobz, burnaboyz and flash gitz were better they could be useful to carry them too.

I think this is pretty much true. Transports are worth it if they are carrying about twice its own cost in points. Like a rhino with marines.

A more expensive transport can be tolerated if its has some damage output of its own, like a deff-rolla or a Squig.

So for trukk boyz to work, the trukk really needs either more capacity or a nerf to make it less expensive. I would love to see a trukk with W8 and T5 at 40 points, including a big shoota. That would make our two trransports more varied, rather than the battlewagon essentially being a slightly improved version of two trukks.

U can also run 2 MSU kommandos in a single truck. Possibly the most cost effective way to run trukks?

90 points gets you 4 burnas 4 choppas and 2 choppa nobs.
8 S4 -2 attacks
12 S4 attacks
8 S5 attacks

Not bad.

Hi guys,

Played 3 casual games vs an Imperial Fist army this weekend. We played a 1000 pts game, a 2000 pts and another 1000 pts. He had basically a mix of: 3 assault cannon razorbacks, 2 whirlwinds, inceptors, scouts, devastators, centurions devastators, 1 dreadnought, 2 dudes that grant rerolls, assault terminators, Lysander, a stormraven, tac squad, etc.

Game #1 (1000 pts):
My list: 30 choppas, 30 shootas, 10 nobz w/ runts, 2 weirdboyz, Zhadsnark, 5 kommandos, 10 grots, 1 painboy
Went second, lost 50% of my stuff to shooting (in the first few turns), Jumped once a big mob, fought a bit, died. Conceded before my turn 4, I had 2 hidden nobz on objectives remaining.

Game #2 (2000 pts):
My list: 6x 12 boyz w/ PK nob in trukk, 4x KMK, 3x min bike squad, 3x min kommando squad, Zhadsnark, 2x KFF bikermek
Went second, lost all my KMK on first turn but not a single trukk, made multiple charges (he had scouts, termies and Lysander in range, wasn't his best move), fought a lot, engaged as much as possible his razorbacks, etc. He conceded after turn 2. I had the relic and was locking in combat more and more stuff every turn.

Game #3 (1000 pts):
My list: 2x 5 nobz w/ runts and a warboss in a wagon, 5 tankbustas and 13 shootas in an OT wagon w/ big shootas, 1 kannon, 1 KFF bikermek
Went first, moved forward, eventually charged with the nobz, we had a good fight, shooty wagon was doing shooty stuff and was ready to jump in the fight. He conceded after turn 3, I was way ahead in objectives, and also a bit on the battlefield.

Random thoughts:
- First time I used weirdboyz in 8th. Sometimes I wouldn't try a spell cause I would almost instantly perils. Also the more units you Jump the less "cover" you have for your weirdboyz. For a 1000 pts game, 2 weirdboyz and a painboy to heal them is too much IMO. But I'm sure I didn't use them well. Having 60+ models around them wasn't optimal, I guess.
- Didn't really like the big 30 boyz squads. I'm more of a trukk boyz guy.
- I liked my 6 trukks list. Trukks protected by KFF and with multiple targets, they are pretty tough. Of course it was just one game. If trukks and PKs get cheaper trukk boyz spam will be dangerous! Not sure if 3 pts wrecking ball. If you're not hitting, no point in having +1S -1AP...
- I liked the PKs in my 6 trukks list. One thing to keep in mind in the endless debate between BC and PK: BC generally hits and wounds on 3+, while PK hits on 4+ and wounds on 2+. That 2+ to wound is a prime target for a CP reroll if you get a 1.
- You really need power stabbas against SM.
- Min squads of bike are nice, shooty, fast, you can pile in/consolidate into other targets pretty easily with their long bases.
- Wasn't too impressed with kommandos, the fact that I missed my 3 charges in game 2 probably didn't help. Will try them again.

Ashkayel wrote:

Spoiler:

Hi guys,

Played 3 casual games vs an Imperial Fist army this weekend. We played a 1000 pts game, a 2000 pts and another 1000 pts. He had basically a mix of: 3 assault cannon razorbacks, 2 whirlwinds, inceptors, scouts, devastators, centurions devastators, 1 dreadnought, 2 dudes that grant rerolls, assault terminators, Lysander, a stormraven, tac squad, etc.

Game #1 (1000 pts):
My list: 30 choppas, 30 shootas, 10 nobz w/ runts, 2 weirdboyz, Zhadsnark, 5 kommandos, 10 grots, 1 painboy
Went second, lost 50% of my stuff to shooting (in the first few turns), Jumped once a big mob, fought a bit, died. Conceded before my turn 4, I had 2 hidden nobz on objectives remaining.

Game #2 (2000 pts):
My list: 6x 12 boyz w/ PK nob in trukk, 4x KMK, 3x min bike squad, 3x min kommando squad, Zhadsnark, 2x KFF bikermek
Went second, lost all my KMK on first turn but not a single trukk, made multiple charges (he had scouts, termies and Lysander in range, wasn't his best move), fought a lot, engaged as much as possible his razorbacks, etc. He conceded after turn 2. I had the relic and was locking in combat more and more stuff every turn.

Game #3 (1000 pts):
My list: 2x 5 nobz w/ runts and a warboss in a wagon, 5 tankbustas and 13 shootas in an OT wagon w/ big shootas, 1 kannon, 1 KFF bikermek
Went first, moved forward, eventually charged with the nobz, we had a good fight, shooty wagon was doing shooty stuff and was ready to jump in the fight. He conceded after turn 3, I was way ahead in objectives, and also a bit on the battlefield.

Random thoughts:
- First time I used weirdboyz in 8th. Sometimes I wouldn't try a spell cause I would almost instantly perils. Also the more units you Jump the less "cover" you have for your weirdboyz. For a 1000 pts game, 2 weirdboyz and a painboy to heal them is too much IMO. But I'm sure I didn't use them well. Having 60+ models around them wasn't optimal, I guess.
- Didn't really like the big 30 boyz squads. I'm more of a trukk boyz guy.
- I liked my 6 trukks list. Trukks protected by KFF and with multiple targets, they are pretty tough. Of course it was just one game. If trukks and PKs get cheaper trukk boyz spam will be dangerous! Not sure if 3 pts wrecking ball. If you're not hitting, no point in having +1S -1AP...
- I liked the PKs in my 6 trukks list. One thing to keep in mind in the endless debate between BC and PK: BC generally hits and wounds on 3+, while PK hits on 4+ and wounds on 2+. That 2+ to wound is a prime target for a CP reroll if you get a 1.
- You really need power stabbas against SM.
- Min squads of bike are nice, shooty, fast, you can pile in/consolidate into other targets pretty easily with their long bases.
- Wasn't too impressed with kommandos, the fact that I missed my 3 charges in game 2 probably didn't help. Will try them again.

I think this is a good demonstration of the old truism that orks do best when they focus on doing one or two things, ie never take one battlewagon or one-two trukks, take 2-3 battlewagons and fill them all with scary stuff or a ton of trukks. A trukk or two will probably melt on the first turn but bring six of them and a couple are bound to get through and do their jobs. Our real armour is target saturation.

I'm pleased to hear a bunch of MSU bike squads performed well for you, especially against an opposing list that seems to be no slouch. My preference is to take a horde of boyz and then fill out the rest of the army with either heavy armour or fast stuff. Out of curiosity, did the kommandos that failed their charges at least absorb a decent amount of firepower that would otherwise have gone into your more valuable stuff? Even if they don't do anything else, if they draw enough fire to keep a trukk alive for a turn they've probably earned their points so to speak.

I notice that you dropped the weirdboyz after the first game, was your opponent not bringing psykers either?

 office_waaagh wrote:
I think this is a good demonstration of the old truism that orks do best when they focus on doing one or two things, ie never take one battlewagon or one-two trukks, take 2-3 battlewagons and fill them all with scary stuff or a ton of trukks. A trukk or two will probably melt on the first turn but bring six of them and a couple are bound to get through and do their jobs. Our real armour is target saturation.

I'm pleased to hear a bunch of MSU bike squads performed well for you, especially against an opposing list that seems to be no slouch. My preference is to take a horde of boyz and then fill out the rest of the army with either heavy armour or fast stuff. Out of curiosity, did the kommandos that failed their charges at least absorb a decent amount of firepower that would otherwise have gone into your more valuable stuff? Even if they don't do anything else, if they draw enough fire to keep a trukk alive for a turn they've probably earned their points so to speak.

I notice that you dropped the weirdboyz after the first game, was your opponent not bringing psykers either?

I like the versatility of MSU bikes, not to say that they were awesome, but they can eat overwatch, engage a lot, grab objectives, etc. Don't expect much in close combat, tho, 3 bikers spent 2 turns fighting 5 scouts! I have to say his game #2 list wasn't as optimal as game #1, he tabled me in game #1 so he went a bit more casual on the second one. I will try MSU bikes again for sure. With mek gunz and trukks, that's a lot of T5-6 and 4+ saves.

For the kommandos, they died when he looked at them. I don't remember what shot them, but they didn't last long. One squad lost 2 boyz and 1 wound on the nob trying (and failing) to charge a whirlwind... Another squad got shot, charged and killed (after ~2 combat phases) by a techmarine... They unlocked a brigade detachment so they helped a bit, I guess. Speaking of which, a brigade detachment is pretty easy to get with single mek gunz, MSU bikes, MSU kommandos and trukk boyz!

 Dr.Duck wrote:
U can also run 2 MSU kommandos in a single truck. Possibly the most cost effective way to run trukks?

90 points gets you 4 burnas 4 choppas and 2 choppa nobs.
8 S4 -2 attacks
12 S4 attacks
8 S5 attacks

Not bad.

Burnas don't replace choppas, so you technically get 14 s4 attacks.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
U can also run 2 MSU kommandos in a single truck. Possibly the most cost effective way to run trukks?

90 points gets you 4 burnas 4 choppas and 2 choppa nobs.
8 S4 -2 attacks
12 S4 attacks
8 S5 attacks

Not bad.

Why buy the trukk though when the kommandos can infiltrate?

So I found a small squad of Nob bikers anything I can do with them?

Just got 3 of em and a biker boss. Might get the kromlech biker painboy if its worth it.

I've got a generic biker boss,Zhadsnark or whats his name, 3 deff koptas and a blob of kommandos and I think like 15 stormboyz n Zagstruk to send with em.

I don't know if thats enough fast stuff to be effective yet, but at least now I have em.

How do people feel about the leaked price point changes?

Note that there has been no leaks for Orks yet, only space marines

Intercessors now cost only 5 points to upgrade (18 points in total) from tactical marines
Whereas we pay 13 points to upgrade from a Boy to a Nob (17 points in total)

For 5 points Marines get
+1 wound
+1 attack
-1 AP on ranged
+6" on ranged


For 13 Points Orks get
+1 Wound
+1 Attack
+1 Strength

And a comparison

Primaris 18pts
BS 3+
Strength 4
Attacks 2
Range 30"
AP -1
3+ Save

Nob 17pts
BS 5+
Strength 5
Attacks 3
Range 12"
4+ Save

I don't see us winning this arms race. We need to be ready to complain to gw, en masse, if our overcosted units are left high and dry while others get point drops.

I wouldn't take the current leaks too seriously. Pretty much anyone with half a brain can cook those up and look decent.

I do hope for massive point drops across the board though. We have the tools to take on both imperium and chaos, we just need to be able to afford them in sufficient numbers.

Yet to play my first game, but been figuring out lists from what I have (which not an extensive collection yet). After not much theory crafting I realized that unless running a green tide (120-150 boyz or even more) a KFF or several are more or less mandatory? I mean with mere t-shirts the boyz are just too damn fragile to survive any serious firepower. I killed 57 boyz w/ painboy from a single round of shooting of about 1300 points of Space Wolves. Space Wolves, imagine that! I was quickly dismayed by the idea of meeting a proper gunline of the Astra Militarum. Turn 1 tabling began to sink in as a very probable outcome.

I dislike KFFs as a mechanic and I would like to forego using them, but I don't think it is possible. What do you think?

Regarding resilience, Orks are mentioned in the fluff to feel very little pain if at all. Do you think a fluffwise justified universal 6+ FNP would make Orks overpowered or merely viable? I mean 6+ is nothing to write home about. A Painboy might boost it to 5+ FNP to make him worthwhile... Because at 6+ FNP he really isn't worth it outside of patching up Weirdboy brains.

How about building an ork army theemed around burning stuff? Like a pyromancy clan. Just maxing out as many skorchas and burnas as possible, thereby bypassing our poor ballistic skill. Since the short range of such weapons, the army would have to be fast.
options I think could work in such an army:
skorcha buggies
nobs with kombi skorchas (and or burna boyz) riding trukks or battlewagons
maybe the burna-bomber, dont know it's rules but it would probably match the theme.
kommandos with burnas.
probably some forge world units.

there is also some slower options like killa kans and deff dreads that could stock up on skorchas.
Would it be viable? and how could we tactically use such and army?

 Weazel wrote:
Yet to play my first game, but been figuring out lists from what I have (which not an extensive collection yet). After not much theory crafting I realized that unless running a green tide (120-150 boyz or even more) a KFF or several are more or less mandatory? I mean with mere t-shirts the boyz are just too damn fragile to survive any serious firepower. I killed 57 boyz w/ painboy from a single round of shooting of about 1300 points of Space Wolves. Space Wolves, imagine that! I was quickly dismayed by the idea of meeting a proper gunline of the Astra Militarum. Turn 1 tabling began to sink in as a very probable outcome.

I dislike KFFs as a mechanic and I would like to forego using them, but I don't think it is possible. What do you think?

KFFs to protect boyz are quite common in this edition. I prefer them to protect vehicles/walkers but I hate the green tide concept KFFs help in dealing with heavy flamers, assault cannons and other anti infantry weapons that have some AP, but most of them like bolters, storm bolters, mortars, poisoned shots, etc don't have an AP so the 5+ invuln is not that better than the 6+ given by the t-shirt. I usually don't even bring the painboy either and tipycally I don't invest a single point in the nobz' weapon. Keep the boyz as cheap as possible. They're only useful to deny some area, sit on objecitves, screen the HQs and tie shooty stuff. Try to charge turn 1 with kommandos and teleported boyz.

A single round of shooting using 1300 points that kills 120-180 points of orks doesn't look quite effective. If you want to use pure greentides you need many more bodies than 120. 180 minimum. Or less but with some stormboyz/kommandos.

But yes, competitive AM lists and guilliman gunlines are hard counters for orks.

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Yet to play my first game, but been figuring out lists from what I have (which not an extensive collection yet). After not much theory crafting I realized that unless running a green tide (120-150 boyz or even more) a KFF or several are more or less mandatory? I mean with mere t-shirts the boyz are just too damn fragile to survive any serious firepower. I killed 57 boyz w/ painboy from a single round of shooting of about 1300 points of Space Wolves. Space Wolves, imagine that! I was quickly dismayed by the idea of meeting a proper gunline of the Astra Militarum. Turn 1 tabling began to sink in as a very probable outcome.

I dislike KFFs as a mechanic and I would like to forego using them, but I don't think it is possible. What do you think?

KFFs to protect boyz are quite common in this edition. I prefer them to protect vehicles/walkers but I hate the green tide concept KFFs help in dealing with heavy flamers, assault cannons and other anti infantry weapons that have some AP, but most of them like bolters, storm bolters, mortars, poisoned shots, etc don't have an AP so the 5+ invuln is not that better than the 6+ given by the t-shirt. I usually don't even bring the painboy either and tipycally I don't invest a single point in the nobz' weapon. Keep the boyz as cheap as possible. They're only useful to deny some area, sit on objecitves, screen the HQs and tie shooty stuff. Try to charge turn 1 with kommandos and teleported boyz.

A single round of shooting using 1300 points that kills 120-180 points of orks doesn't look quite effective. If you want to use pure greentides you need many more bodies than 120. 180 minimum. Or less but with some stormboyz/kommandos.

But yes, competitive AM lists and guilliman gunlines are hard counters for orks.

Well 57 boyz is almost 350 points, but anyway. SW shooting is not legendary, but you know this I suppose. Which is why I said a proper shooting army is going to make short work of them.

I only have 80 Boyz and can borrow about 40 more, so maybe just barely enough to be called a Green Tide. I guess I'll have to incorporate at least one KFF into the mix. I'm just getting a bit burned out painting all the boyz is all...

 Weazel wrote:
Yet to play my first game, but been figuring out lists from what I have (which not an extensive collection yet). After not much theory crafting I realized that unless running a green tide (120-150 boyz or even more) a KFF or several are more or less mandatory? I mean with mere t-shirts the boyz are just too damn fragile to survive any serious firepower. I killed 57 boyz w/ painboy from a single round of shooting of about 1300 points of Space Wolves. Space Wolves, imagine that! I was quickly dismayed by the idea of meeting a proper gunline of the Astra Militarum. Turn 1 tabling began to sink in as a very probable outcome.

I dislike KFFs as a mechanic and I would like to forego using them, but I don't think it is possible. What do you think?

Regarding resilience, Orks are mentioned in the fluff to feel very little pain if at all. Do you think a fluffwise justified universal 6+ FNP would make Orks overpowered or merely viable? I mean 6+ is nothing to write home about. A Painboy might boost it to 5+ FNP to make him worthwhile... Because at 6+ FNP he really isn't worth it outside of patching up Weirdboy brains.

The KFF is very beneficial for anything with a 4+ save. That is transports, fliers, bikes, walking Nobz and such. For 6+ and 3+ save units the KFF is beneficial, but not wildly so. For a a walker list the meks repair ability will do more than the KFF, just as the painboyz heal ability is more important than the 6+++ save.

Losing 60 boyz a turn is not uncommon, and those games are still winnable if you bring 180-210 boyz.

The KFF is pretty good for any type of vehicle. Most anti-tank weapons tend to be one shot, high strength, good AP, high damage. Every single save against those will prolong its life by a lot.

For simple orks I'm split - it should make sense, but I somehow never manage to roll enough saves for them to matter.

Haven't yet missed a kff in my footslogging army. Too expensive. Too restrictive. I prefer boyz to be less bunched up. They allready need to keep range to Ghaz and painboy. Forcing them in a 9" bauble is not a great idea for board controle.

I think the KFF is very useful for vehicles, especially T8 vehicles. Most weapons that hurt these units are AP -3 or better so getting a 5+ save instead of a 6+ is pretty nice.

 Weazel wrote:


Well 57 boyz is almost 350 points, but anyway. SW shooting is not legendary, but you know this I suppose. Which is why I said a proper shooting army is going to make short work of them.

I only have 80 Boyz and can borrow about 40 more, so maybe just barely enough to be called a Green Tide. I guess I'll have to incorporate at least one KFF into the mix. I'm just getting a bit burned out painting all the boyz is all...

SW shooting is not legendary but SM one is. A gunline with razorbacks has nothing to do with SW which are supposed to be an elite melee army. If you play SW like they were SM now their shooting can be quite effective too.

If you want to go footsloggers you need the numbers. 120 boyz are not an horde army. If you like lesser bodies you need 60-90 stormboyz and/or 45 kommandos. Try a 2-3 mobz on foot, a couple of mobz of stormboyz and 3 mobz of kommandos, you should be able to bring decent green tides with "just" 150ish bodies.

We also have seen some list placing well in tournaments which focus heavily on multiple weirdboyz and big gun (not mek gun) spam combined with powerful HQs like Thrakka, Grotznik, Zardsnark, Zagstrukk and Biker warbosses.

Those list still bringt at least 100 orks with choppas though.

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Yet to play my first game, but been figuring out lists from what I have (which not an extensive collection yet). After not much theory crafting I realized that unless running a green tide (120-150 boyz or even more) a KFF or several are more or less mandatory? I mean with mere t-shirts the boyz are just too damn fragile to survive any serious firepower. I killed 57 boyz w/ painboy from a single round of shooting of about 1300 points of Space Wolves. Space Wolves, imagine that! I was quickly dismayed by the idea of meeting a proper gunline of the Astra Militarum. Turn 1 tabling began to sink in as a very probable outcome.

I dislike KFFs as a mechanic and I would like to forego using them, but I don't think it is possible. What do you think?

KFFs to protect boyz are quite common in this edition. I prefer them to protect vehicles/walkers but I hate the green tide concept KFFs help in dealing with heavy flamers, assault cannons and other anti infantry weapons that have some AP, but most of them like bolters, storm bolters, mortars, poisoned shots, etc don't have an AP so the 5+ invuln is not that better than the 6+ given by the t-shirt. I usually don't even bring the painboy either and tipycally I don't invest a single point in the nobz' weapon. Keep the boyz as cheap as possible. They're only useful to deny some area, sit on objecitves, screen the HQs and tie shooty stuff. Try to charge turn 1 with kommandos and teleported boyz.

A single round of shooting using 1300 points that kills 120-180 points of orks doesn't look quite effective. If you want to use pure greentides you need many more bodies than 120. 180 minimum. Or less but with some stormboyz/kommandos.

But yes, competitive AM lists and guilliman gunlines are hard counters for orks.

Well 57 boyz is almost 350 points, but anyway. SW shooting is not legendary, but you know this I suppose. Which is why I said a proper shooting army is going to make short work of them.

I only have 80 Boyz and can borrow about 40 more, so maybe just barely enough to be called a Green Tide. I guess I'll have to incorporate at least one KFF into the mix. I'm just getting a bit burned out painting all the boyz is all...

Yes, painting 180 models is definitely a drag. I really like the mass infantry play-style, but even I think the Ork meta is too extreme in that regard. Unfortunately mixed lists works really poorly unless you have a large amount of blocking terrain in the middle of the board.

One of the reasons that the pure green tide works well against very shooty armies right now, is that the meta includes a lot of las-cannons, plasmas, earthshaker batteries, battlecannons, railguns, brigh lances and so on. But sometimes you run into a list with large amount of bolters, storm-bolters, heavy-bolters and stuff like that, and then you will suffer. I have only played SW once in 8th edition, but when I did I got the impression, that the wolves is somewhat susceptible to smite.

I have 90 boyz is that enough now adays or do I need to paint even more?

Zomnivore wrote:
I have 90 boyz is that enough now adays or do I need to paint even more?

90 is a good number since it's ideal to fill out the troops slots in a battalion detachment. Depending on how competitive your meta is, 90 is the bare minimum requirement for most Ork lists, after which you can sprinkle around whatever support you want, like stormboyz, kommandos or mek/big guns.

 Grimskul wrote:

Zomnivore wrote:
I have 90 boyz is that enough now adays or do I need to paint even more?

90 is a good number since it's ideal to fill out the troops slots in a battalion detachment. Depending on how competitive your meta is, 90 is the bare minimum requirement for most Ork lists, after which you can sprinkle around whatever support you want, like stormboyz, kommandos or mek/big guns.

What do you all think of massed stormboyz? We lose the Green Tide rule, but gain speed, for a low cost. Has anyone tried run 90 or more stormboyz?