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 Jidmah wrote:
You could also fit 9 tank bustaz, burnaz, nobz, flash gits and more in units of boyz.

I strongly suspect the merging units has to be of the same type, otherwise all kinds of gak happens. If a unit of gretchin merges with a unit if kommandos, what is their movement stat? What Toughness? Do they benefit from the Waagh aura, Dangerous in large numbers, or 'Ere we go abilities?

I think such a stratagem will help out boy mobs the most. If a large blob can assimilate understrength mobs, then you can keep the greentide bonus alive longer, and you can concentrate bossnobs and heavy weapons Nobs in your surviving blobs.

The same holds true for warbiker mobs. By merging them you can keep the free boss-nobs alive longer.

Units with ammorunts will also benefit from merging.

pismakron wrote:

 Glane wrote:


Unfortunately it's not an additional 16.7% hits. Hit rolls of 6 generate an additional attack, which itself still needs to hit. So if you shot 45 times with a maxed-out unit of Lootas, you'd hit on average 15 times, and half of those hits would be 6's. You'd then generate an extra 7.5 attacks, which hit around twice.

7.5 shoots will yield 2.5 hits, and 2.5 additional hits is a 16.7% increase on 15 hits. It is not exactly useless, but it is very much meh.

Huh, you're right, sorry about that. Guess I was looking at the total shots, not hits.

Honestly, that dakka stratagem seems like it would be decent as, say, a bad moons klan bonus, but as a stratagem it's pretty awful, now that I think about it.

 Dribble Joy wrote:
Frankly I'll take the relic if only because the -1 to hit with the PK has completely nerfed the ability of mega armour units to actually be effective in CC for their cost. Too many times has my WB charged in and basically done nothing.

But yeah, 2CP to fire again vs. this thing? Very close to a sense of humour failure here.

Even if they greatly decrease the points of MANz this is probably why I'll never end up bringing them. PKs just don't do damage anymore between AP being nerfed, instant death no longer a thing, and MANz losing an attack.

The Dakka stratagem say you can make another "attack using the same weapon". Does that mean that a Shoota boy can fire another 2 shots for each 6 rolled or is it only 1 shot per 6 rolled?

tilds wrote:
The Dakka stratagem say you can make another "attack using the same weapon". Does that mean that a Shoota boy can fire another 2 shots for each 6 rolled or is it only 1 shot per 6 rolled?

It's just one attack from the same weapon, and weapons have an attack stat. It's just one extra shot, not an entirely new round of shooting.

That's disappointing, hopefully the points changes will make up for it. That or we get lucky and have another stratagem to use that isn't so lacklustre, ideally one that prevents enemy units from falling back from a chosen unit of boyz, maybe called something like "Mob em!".

At least the relic is decent. They could have doubled down the insult of Orks sucking at shooting by giving us a crappy shoota ranged relic.

 Grimskul wrote:
That's disappointing, hopefully the points changes will make up for it. That or we get lucky and have another stratagem to use that isn't so lacklustre, ideally one that prevents enemy units from falling back from a chosen unit of boyz, maybe called something like "Mob em!".

At least the relic is decent. They could have doubled down the insult of Orks sucking at shooting by giving us a crappy shoota ranged relic.

I really do expect something like a "Get Stuck In" CP that prevents any unit from falling back. Course it'll cost us 3CP and only work on a 4+ roll.

Underwhelmed by reveal the warlord trait is mostly useless except bc warboss even then fnp or Exta atk better.
Relic is decent but it's just s bc that can do mortal wounds.
Strategem I don't see a huge benefit and it's situational.
The other strategem sounds too broken and I expect the rumor was lost in translation I expect at best astra militarum combined squads.

I like the Warlord Trait and the Relic, if they are accurate.

The Stratagem doesn't seem very good at first glance. Might be good for Tankbustas (it would be a reason to take Rokkit Pistols). If there are other things in Chapter Approved or the Codex that grant re-rolls, bonuses to hit or maybe even more extra attacks then this might be better than it appears.

Now this just occurred to me and correct me if I am wrong, but I was reading an FAQ and one of the questions was about character that had other models with them such as genestealer familiars and a patriarch. In it it said that a unit with the character keyword could not be targetted in the shooting phase unless it was the closest target. If you combine a character with another unit that would make that entire unit count as a character. If thats the case then boom that unit cannot be shot at which unless its the closest thus protecting that unit if you have ANYTHING closer. That sounds halfway useful so it does have me doubling down on thinking you can only combine units of the same type. :(

However it works out (if the rumor is anywhere close to being accurate) I'm excited because the old mob rule back in 3rd edition where a fleeing squad could join up with another squad was really fun. I'm really hoping a lot of the old, fun, flavorful stuff gets added back in the form of stratagems.

One trukk is wrecked, 3 boyz die in the process, 9 boyz remaining join another trukk boyz mob, 21 boyz total, green tide rule +1A, yay!

Dakka Dakka Dakka increases normal orks to BS 4.666+.

Tankbustas against vehicles BS 3.75 +

Mek guns are at BS 3.5+.

Bomb squigs....

BOMB SQUIGS!

Against vehicles...as I calculate it....

BS 0.03+ (for every 6 squigs, you hit 6.97 times.)

Check my math.

Also...has anyone else missed the fact that a unit of 15 tankbustas can take 6 squigs? I need so many more...

Dakka Dakka Dakka can't be used on Mek Gunz, it's Infantry and Bikes only.

If Warbikes get a price decrease then I think it might be a decent stratagem for big mobs of them.

I like the Kromlech mech version of Bomb Squigs. They're a little spendy though.

Ashkayel wrote:
One trukk is wrecked, 3 boyz die in the process, 9 boyz remaining join another trukk boyz mob, 21 boyz total, green tide rule +1A, yay!

This was my first thought as well, that trukk boyz could benefit hugely from "mobbing up" like in the old 3rd edition codex. The good old days are coming back!

Hopefully it applies to any ork infantry unit and not just Boyz, it's a great way of giving small squads another layer of insulation against morale casualties.

Bomb squigs?

Combining 9 Nobz with 30 Boyz and Da Jumping right to the enemy's face sounds a bit too good to be true to be honest. I mean that might make Orks competitive, and we can't have that now can we?

 JimOnMars wrote:
Dakka Dakka Dakka increases normal orks to BS 4.666+.

Tankbustas against vehicles BS 3.75 +

Mek guns are at BS 3.5+.

Bomb squigs....

BOMB SQUIGS!

Against vehicles...as I calculate it....

BS 0.03+ (for every 6 squigs, you hit 6.97 times.)

Check my math.

Also...has anyone else missed the fact that a unit of 15 tankbustas can take 6 squigs? I need so many more...

The stratagem improves hits by 16,7 % on shootas, tankbustas and bombsquigs. It is not useless, but it is not very useful either. If we could have used the stratagem with the deffrolla, that would have been awesome.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:
Combining 9 Nobz with 30 Boyz and Da Jumping right to the enemy's face sounds a bit too good to be true to be honest. I mean that might make Orks competitive, and we can't have that now can we?

But you can combine 10 Nobz + 10 ammo runts with 9 Nobz and then jump the lot.

pismakron wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Combining 9 Nobz with 30 Boyz and Da Jumping right to the enemy's face sounds a bit too good to be true to be honest. I mean that might make Orks competitive, and we can't have that now can we?

But you can combine 10 Nobz + 10 ammo runts with 9 Nobz and then jump the lot.

Well sure, but I kinda like the idea of 30 ablative wounds when you don't make the charge. 19 Nobs gets expensive real fast. But a huge Nob unit would be hilarious no question.

I doubt that "make an extra attack" is just a +1 dice that you still have to hit with. That is laughable once you start doing math.

I think it is just poor wording for "shoot again with the same weapon". Because if we are going with literal RAW it gives you a +1 MELEE attack which makes 0 sense.

So, big shoota shoots 3 times, misses once and gets two sixes. It shoots again for every of these sixes, generating additional 6 shots, which can't generate more shots anymore. Not King of shooting but at least this is something. If it is actually a +1 shot, then whoever made this just wanted to troll ork players or is very poor at math/balancing.

Compare 1CP Dakka Dakka to Mordia stratagem for 1 CP which almost word by word is similar but does the same much better

 JawRippa wrote:
I doubt that "make an extra attack" is just a +1 dice that you still have to hit with. That is laughable once you start doing math.

I think it is just poor wording for "shoot again with the same weapon". Because if we are going with literal RAW it gives you a +1 MELEE attack which makes 0 sense.

So, big shoota shoots 3 times, misses once and gets two sixes. It shoots again for every of these sixes, generating additional 6 shots, which can't generate more shots anymore. Not King of shooting but at least this is something. If it is actually a +1 shot, then whoever made this just wanted to troll ork players or is very poor at math/balancing.

Compare 1CP Dakka Dakka to Mordia stratagem for 1 CP which almost word by word is similar but does the same much better

GWs respons to said stratagem.

Heh, that is funny

Making a mob of 30 boyz count as characters is hilarious.

The enemy charges two grot gunners. 30 boyz and a warboss heroically intervene!

The outcry would be massive.

Nogil wrote:

GWs respons to said stratagem.

Spoiler:

It still does not clear up things, though. If it is just a +1 shot that you still have to hit with, then that is just garbage. If it is a whole extra shooting salvo with weapon like Mordian stratagem, then it is actually usable.

Also, kinda dickish way to reply from GW.

 koooaei wrote:
Making a mob of 30 boyz count as characters is hilarious. They could even probably use heroic intervention.

Nah, they'll probably make it so you can't combine units with different toughness, saves and no characters in there to avoid shenanigans.

 JawRippa wrote:

Nogil wrote:

GWs respons to said stratagem.

Spoiler:

It still does not clear up things, though. If it is just a +1 shot that you still have to hit with, then that is just garbage. If it is a whole extra shooting salvo with weapon like Mordian stratagem, then it is actually usable.

Also, kinda dickish way to reply from GW.

 koooaei wrote:
Making a mob of 30 boyz count as characters is hilarious. They could even probably use heroic intervention.

Nah, they'll probably make it so you can't combine units with different toughness, saves and no characters in there to avoid shenanigans.

I think we can take that answer as evidence that the ork codex will be about close combat only, say goodbye to ork shooting forever...

 koooaei wrote:
Making a mob of 30 boyz count as characters is hilarious.

The enemy charges two grot gunners. 30 boyz and a warboss heroically intervene!

The outcry would be massive.

If different types of units are allowed to merge, then all kinds of gak is made possible. I really doubt that is going to happen, but one can hope.

 JawRippa wrote:
I doubt that "make an extra attack" is just a +1 dice that you still have to hit with. That is laughable once you start doing math.

I think it is just poor wording for "shoot again with the same weapon". Because if we are going with literal RAW it gives you a +1 MELEE attack which makes 0 sense.

Actually, an "attack" with a shooting weapon is pretty well defined as a single shot. Check the shooting phase rules.

That reply from GW... wow, just wow. If only there were a way that GW didn't feth up ork rules this time.

An identical strategem for 6+ to-hits generating extra hits could be ok for mellee. Taking into consideration banner nobz.

Also, it's too early to say that 6+ to hit strategem is bad. It could be pretty good if we get easy access to +1 to-hit at range. Dakkabanner or something. Dakkajets get +1 to hit iirc. Could be something like this.

 koooaei wrote:
An identical strategem for 6+ to-hits generating extra hits could be ok for mellee. Taking into consideration banner nobz.

Also, it's too early to say that 6+ to hit strategem is bad. It could be pretty good if we get easy access to +1 to-hit at range. Dakkabanner or something. Dakkajets get +1 to hit iirc. Could be something like this.

Yeah, but that's going to be in the codex we're not getting yet. Currently you have a good chance to spend 1 CP for a pile of nothing. Even with 45 loota shoots, the chance of actually damaging the target with those extra shots is pretty low. I have not done the math, but I'd bet using the CP to re-roll a failed to wound roll might do almost as much as this.

I don't mind stratagems like the DG one allowing an entire unit to throw grenades, if you have others that are fun and/or good.
But right now we just got a nice relic, a weak warlord trait and a stratagem that does next to nothing. All three scream "we don't know how to orks" just like the supplement that shall not be named did, which makes me worried. Those point drops better be awesome.

Currently, I'd prefer throwing grenades with an entire unit of boyz over Dakka Dakka Dakka.