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 koooaei wrote:
I'd love to have more expensive ork boyz. Something like 10 ppm. But they'd better get 2 wounds and 3 attacks base. Also, some better shooting. They'll be less choppy overall but somewhat more durable vs 1-wound weapons. This will also make them much more affordable to deal with for armies with lots of anti-tank. So, boyz would be less of an anti-meta. i just hate painting

Yes, but ideally Nobz would fill that role of more concentrated boyz. And they do, to an extent. Except that they have much worse shooting and somewhat worse chopping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Nah, I'm just looking for pure damage buffs where another unit affects the current unit. So I guess I didn't miss any then. I didn't look at forgeworld buffs yet, but I'm not sure if I should with GW's current "crush every viable thing from FW" mentality

Orks actually got two nifty price reductions on FW stuff: The Warkopta is now 80 points and a squiggoth is 160.

Ammo runts grant rerolls to hit in shooting for one attack.

Tsnk Bustas inherent reroll to hit against vehicles.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Ammo runts grant rerolls to hit in shooting for one attack.

Tsnk Bustas inherent reroll to hit against vehicles.

Yeah, but that's the same unit though. Guess I got them all first try. Yay. 400 rows written already. Only about 300 more to go

The dakkadakka stratagem is also an offensive buff I suppose

 koooaei wrote:
I'd love to have more expensive ork boyz. Something like 10 ppm. But they'd better get 2 wounds and 3 attacks base. Also, some better shooting. They'll be less choppy overall but somewhat more durable vs 1-wound weapons. This will also make them much more affordable to deal with for armies with lots of anti-tank. So, boyz would be less of an anti-meta. i just hate painting

If boyz get +1W pretty much everything else should have it as well. Nobz and bikes would become 3W, meganobz 4W, etc...

I'd like boyz keeping the current profile but 8ppm with a 6+ FNP, actually given to all ork infantries/bikes, that can be cumulative with the painboy bubble, becoming a 5+ one.

In addition +1 attack for mobz of 10+ guys, not 20+, and cheaper vehicles. This way we may have some alternatives to the green tide and more variety of models on the table. Now that vehicles can't be instant killed en masse in turn 1 they must be viable somehow.

I hate painting as well And I also hate wast... investing so much time only for moving models.

pismakron wrote:
The dakkadakka stratagem is also an offensive buff I suppose

It's about as much of an offensive buff as the dice re-roll stratagem is

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
And I'm all for magnetising... But only for the same unit. I don't want to dabble with conversions/taking stuff from 2 different unit boxes at all.

Most of those tips aren't conversions though, all ork plastic kits are made to work with each other, no green stuff or tools needed at all. Warbikers, lootaz, burnaz, boyz and some other kits (for example, the gunners on battlewagons) use the same type of heads, torsos and legs, they are 100% interchangeable. Nobz and flash gits use the same bodies and heads as well, plus it's pretty obvious that the nobz bodies were made to fit on warbikes, they pretty much snap-fit to them. There really is no point in buying a lootaz/burnaz box twice if you just need more bodies to build both from a single box.

Kanz and Deff Dreads are even more obvious, one of the sprues is shared between the kits. The sprue containing the skorcha, rokkit and saw arms is the very same in both. The lower arms of the deff dread are just kan arms. It's just common sense to take the weapons that make no sense on a dread (KMB, rokkit) and put them on kanz, while you take the weapons that more sense on the dread (big shoota, skorcha) and put them on the dread.

Kommandoz and Tank Bustaz are both very old kits, each one has one nob, so for a "legit" unit you would need four boxes each and you have fixed wargear since the models are not customizable.
Bottom line, tank bustaz are boyz with rokkits, kommadoz are boyz with bagpacks. You can either blow 140€ per unit or use what everybody else is using.
But since you don't seem to believe in advice... I guess I'm wasting my time here.

 Jidmah wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
And I'm all for magnetising... But only for the same unit. I don't want to dabble with conversions/taking stuff from 2 different unit boxes at all.

Most of those tips aren't conversions though, all ork plastic kits are made to work with each other, no green stuff or tools needed at all....But since you don't seem to believe in advice... I guess I'm wasting my time here.

I feel like we are going to witness the evolution of rvd not just as a poster on here but also as an Ork player/collector.

First 10 games; his muscles start to gain mass and his speaking becomes a little more basic.
Next 20 games; he has grown a few extra inches in height and has forgotten how to use a spreadsheet.
Next 30 games; he is working on a conversion, it will be beautiful, a masterpiece; that Onagaer Dunecrawler would look so nice.....Orkified...
100+ games; how long has it been since he purchased a kit for anything other than conversions? Why does he hate those "standard" Kommandos and Tank Bustas so much? He can no longer tell where a Boy ends and a Tank Busta begins. He spends hours trolling Ebay for half used sprues of Boyz. For some reason he can't help but use models and units that statistically aren't very good. He believes he rolls more 5s and 6s than other, runtier players.
200+ games; thick-set, broad shoulders, knuckles almost scraping the ground and a thick leathery skin indicate rvd is now a Warboss in his own right. He speaks only in guttural slang and to announce his presence at any event with a massive WAAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!!! He cares not if he wins games, he has almost forgotten how to count units' points values. He fights only for the joy of fighting and for the thrill of beating an enemy when statistically he shouldn't even be on the table. Rvd is gone, his being replaced by Warboss Git Kikka.

Probably not though :p
Still have AdMech in my blood. NUMBERS! HOLY DATA! Every unit must be made from the original box! Everything else is heresy!

@jidmah Also that last bit was woefully unnecesary. It's like we leave all that behind and you bring it up when talking about model conversions. *siiiiiiigh*

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Probably not though :p
Still have AdMech in my blood. NUMBERS! HOLY DATA! Every unit must be made from the original box! Everything else is heresy!

...

looks like you will become a proper cybork then
A true hybrid of Ork and machine!

Moving on. The Warkopta seems kinda boss to me all of a sudden. Never really looked at them before, the weapons are pretty much free? Super squishy ofc but 80pts to DS 10 geezers with armour protection and dakka support seems good to me. In the unlikely event they survive arrival, they have the bomm and a monster movement range ofc.
One of my favourite builds atm (stupidly uncompetitive, so doesn't really belong here) is 3 meka dreads with KFF and rattler, backed up by 2 trukks containing big choppa nobz, runtz and a KFF mek each. Aim to just go up and crunch things, with the rattlers eating screens or whatever. Obviously it all gets obliterated by anti tank in 2 turns but at 1500pts, there's other stuff to play with.
But swapping trukks for warkoptas and spending the spare 500pts on KMKs and kommandos strikes me as great fun. Lots of 4+ shooting for as long as it lasts, some DSing distractions and then the warkoptas drop the nobz and bomms in the mix.
Anyway, rambling. That list won't compete with much that isn't fluffy.
So, you guys thoughts on warkoptas? I'm considering adding a ton of plasticard to my deffkoptas and going all in. They seem a great and very different option now.

so with chapter approved I am not seeing much in here (perhaps I did not go back enough) but our new strategems one seems mostly useless (dakka) the other awesome (mob up)

dakka dakka dakka: the on a 6 you get another shot seems so useless. even 30 ork shoota boys average 60 shots, that is 20 hits, 10 6's which result in 3.33 more hits, for a command point that is just bad. also assumes no nob in the group, all within 18 inches of the target unit, and at full strength. lootas are still super overpriced but probably what gw had in mind. average 2 shots each assuming 5 man due to how much is costs 10 shots 3.3 hits, 1.65 6's so extra shots or .54 extra hits. seems underwhelming, might have been halfway decent if they got an extra hit per 6 and not an extra shot.

mob up I am super stoked about, mob up. so that weakened boys squad with a nob and 4 boys left gets to join another boys squad so now you have 2 nobz in one big squad.

original mob up rumor had me even more excited joining say mega nobz to a unit of boys for a 2+ save but alas that proved to be false. still I think this will be used across the board by ork players.

on the points adjustments having power claws closer to power fists is nice and the other points drops seem needed but leaving the stompa, lootas, mek/big guns, battlewagon, and other points still overcosted seems an oversight. the stompa particularly could see a 50% points decrease and still only be decent for the points and wish it was an imperial knight in efficiency.

I'm really excited about Mob Up too. It's awesome.

All those Special Weaponz Boyz and Nobz in Boyz squads are suddenly way more durable as long as they're around other Boyz squads. Unless Boyz are absolutely destroyed to the point where they auto fail morale any stragglers will be absorbed into other squads (rather than be useless).

Not to mention kill point denial, though well have to see how that works out.

It also opens up possibilities to run Boyz in transports, assuming our transports get cheaper.

The most exciting thing though, for me, is that it's thematic and shows that GW understands at least a little how Orks function. Boyz (and because of the synergies, our other units) are far, far stronger in greater numbers and this stratagem allows us to keep them in as greater numbers as possible as long as possible. It also let's us keep our strongest models in those units alive as long possible (so they become more valuable).

I rate it.

One big thing that someone here has completely failed to bring up in regards to Blood letters Vs Ork boyz. AP-3 CCW lol. Another big thing that seems to have been forgotten is that the most annoying gunline against Orkz is the asscan spam which negates Ork armor completely where as BLs still get that 5++ the next big annoyance for Orkz is the heavy bolter which wounds Orkz and BLs the same but again ignores Ork armor. I could keep going but I won't because I think boyz are better then BLs as well, the difference is that if BLs were 6pts and received as many buffs as Boyz do from characters the story would be the opposite.

As it stands the Ork index is based around the idea of boyz and buffs for those boyz.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm really excited about Mob Up too. It's awesome.

All those Special Weaponz Boyz and Nobz in Boyz squads are suddenly way more durable as long as they're around other Boyz squads. Unless Boyz are absolutely destroyed to the point where they auto fail morale any stragglers will be absorbed into other squads (rather than be useless).

Not to mention kill point denial, though well have to see how that works out.

It also opens up possibilities to run Boyz in transports, assuming our transports get cheaper.

The most exciting thing though, for me, is that it's thematic and shows that GW understands at least a little how Orks function. Boyz (and because of the synergies, our other units) are far, far stronger in greater numbers and this stratagem allows us to keep them in as greater numbers as possible as long as possible. It also let's us keep our strongest models in those units alive as long possible (so they become more valuable).

I rate it.

special weaposn are still kind of iffy,. rokkits will hit on 5's and our big shootas while they will average one hit per shot and have the str/range to be useful they still cost as much as another boy.

SemperMortis wrote:

As it stands the Ork index is based around the idea of boyz and buffs for those boyz.

I think that is being generous. I don't think that anyone in GW has a really clear idea about what Orks should and what Orks shouldn't be. We were lucky that we got viable troops, viable HQ, Ghaz and a functional mob-rule.

I am looking forward to the codex, but I kind of expect to be disappointed.

 G00fySmiley wrote:


special weaposn are still kind of iffy,. rokkits will hit on 5's and our big shootas while they will average one hit per shot and have the str/range to be useful they still cost as much as another boy.

Yea I agree special weapons aren't great, but they are more attractive if we have the tools to keep them alive for the entire game.

I just imagine a turn 4 group of Boyz with 3 Nobz and a few special weapons thrown in for good measure and it sems kinda cool to me.

I am certain if nothing else the sheer annoyance of the survivors will encourage the opponent to focus way too much fire at the lads and thereby make positional mistakes.

I think orks should get a "Wildly inaccurate" rule that says:
"Orks point their gunz in the general direction of the enemy without care for their stealthy shenanigans"
ORK units ignore negative to hit modifiers in the shooting phase

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I think orks should get a "Wildly inaccurate" rule that says:
"Orks point their gunz in the general direction of the enemy without care for their stealthy shenanigans"
ORK units ignore negative to hit modifiers in the shooting phase

Yep, already emailed GW on this. You should do to. We should all do it.

SemperMortis wrote:
One big thing that someone here has completely failed to bring up in regards to Blood letters Vs Ork boyz. AP-3 CCW lol. Another big thing that seems to have been forgotten is that the most annoying gunline against Orkz is the asscan spam which negates Ork armor completely where as BLs still get that 5++ the next big annoyance for Orkz is the heavy bolter which wounds Orkz and BLs the same but again ignores Ork armor. I could keep going but I won't because I think boyz are better then BLs as well, the difference is that if BLs were 6pts and received as many buffs as Boyz do from characters the story would be the opposite.

As it stands the Ork index is based around the idea of boyz and buffs for those boyz.

Here's the damage comparison. It's made as if bloodletters are charging/charged(as is usually the case). If the combat lasts more than 1 turn, their damage drop by 50-60% which is pretty huge.
The problem lies in the fact that 4+ and above armour is currently very overpriced. Which is the reason most actual marines are bad. Orks are now counter meta.

PS: excel is sooooooo laggy now I have too many things here

What do you think about the cult of speed box as a starter?

ballzonya wrote:
What do you think about the cult of speed box as a starter?

It's what I got. It has about a 33% discount.
The lootas/burnas are bad-ish. The bikes can be used for Big Mek, Pain Boy, Warboss on boke. Vehicles aren't great but they might get buffed.
I'll get another one of those for the discount in case they get buffed.

The real problem with that box is the HQ: the big mek with SAG will never be viable. With a weirdboy or ghaz it could have been interesting.

Lootas/burnas are not that bad, lootas could work with a price cut and burnas are useful for kommandos which are quite effective now. Bikes, trukk, BW can all have usage, they're all overcosted but with the box you just get one of those. Boyz are never enough.

I think it's a good deal for beginners, the majority of ork players already got enough lootas, bikes, BW and trukks for this edition.

They might be bad now, but if Eldar and Nid codex is anything to go by, the Xenos codexes as much more impactful on army strength. It's not unexpected to see vehicles all get +1 toughness, better saves AND a pts decrease

rvd1ofakind wrote:


Here's the damage comparison. It's made as if bloodletters are charging/charged(as is usually the case). If the combat lasts more than 1 turn, their damage drop by 50-60% which is pretty huge.
The problem lies in the fact that 4+ and above armour is currently very overpriced. Which is the reason most actual marines are bad. Orks are now counter meta.

PS: excel is sooooooo laggy now I have too many things here

Im sorry but those Excel sheets are really hard to read. Am i right if the bottom row is the ork and top row i blood letter? And it's damage/point cost of attacking unit? In that case the sheet shows blood letters being better against stuff with high save, and orks better against light infantry, as expected. I dunno why blood letters have been discussed as much, this thread is about orks?

 Blackie wrote:
The real problem with that box is the HQ: the big mek with SAG will never be viable. With a weirdboy or ghaz it could have been interesting.

Lootas/burnas are not that bad, lootas could work with a price cut and burnas are useful for kommandos which are quite effective now. Bikes, trukk, BW can all have usage, they're all overcosted but with the box you just get one of those. Boyz are never enough.

I think it's a good deal for beginners, the majority of ork players already got enough lootas, bikes, BW and trukks for this edition.

I agree. (hey, we agree on some things! )

If you can use all the models, it's a great deal. I don't have bikes and 3 bikes are useless, plus I already have five battlewagons and there is really no need for a fifth. The SAG mek is at least viable for fun games, since he is just 80 points now. If there is a way to get him to BS 4+ or even 3+ with the codex (warlord trait/relic) he might just become viable. 60" range is pretty awesome for orks if you can actually hit gak. So I wouldn't consider him a full loss. Worst case, make him count as KFF mek.

Gitdakka wrote:

rvd1ofakind wrote:


Here's the damage comparison. It's made as if bloodletters are charging/charged(as is usually the case). If the combat lasts more than 1 turn, their damage drop by 50-60% which is pretty huge.
The problem lies in the fact that 4+ and above armour is currently very overpriced. Which is the reason most actual marines are bad. Orks are now counter meta.

PS: excel is sooooooo laggy now I have too many things here

Im sorry but those Excel sheets are really hard to read. Am i right if the bottom row is the ork and top row i blood letter? And it's damage/point cost of attacking unit? In that case the sheet shows blood letters being better against stuff with high save, and orks better against light infantry, as expected. I dunno why blood letters have been discussed as much, this thread is about orks?

For some reason the image cut off the names. Yeah, that's Bloodletter on the top. It shows damage per point, yes.
Well some guy really liked comparing them to Ork Boyz because they're... an assaulting horde unit I guess?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

For some reason the image cut off the names. Yeah, that's Bloodletter on the top. It shows damage per point, yes.
Well some guy really liked comparing them to Ork Boyz because they're... an assaulting horde unit I guess?

They were compared because they are the same points that you were inferring (wrongly) that Ork Boys should be and are one of the most comparable units in-game.

All these spreadsheets and no actual experience. I'm interested to see how accurate your spreadsheets feel, when you fail that 4" charge with 'Ere we go and when 15 of your 18 Dakka gun hits connect.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
It's not unexpected to see vehicles all get +1 toughness, better saves AND a pts decrease

On what unit did this happen and in which codex? I know of no vehicle that gained +1 Toughness, better save and went down in price? Carnifexes perhaps?

I wouldn't bank on the same increase in power that the Tyranid and Eldar codex received. Ork codexes aren't known for being well balanced and Chapter Approved didn't exactly change a ton of points. If you want to have faith in anything; hope that we get decent stratagems for each unit that seriously increases their damage output temporarily. If we get this then we may be able to flood the board with bodies and drop the stratagem when we get in a position to do so.

No way ork vehicles will receive +1T and a better save. Trukks are T6 and 4+ save which is absolutely appropriate considering that SM tanks are T7 and 3+. BWs are already T8, maybe it would be fair if the 'ard case gave a 3+ save other than the +1T but it will probably never happen..

Points decreases are very likely though since GW's interest is to sell the models but vehicles' profiles and their stats will remain untouched.

The trukk definitely needs to be nerfed not buffed. While it is already too expensive (compared to a rhino); even if it was fair value for its stats it would almost certainly be too expensive for trukk-boyz. I would like a trukk to be T6 W8 Sv5+ with a price of 40 points including a big shoota. Then you could realistically bring 12-14 trukks to a trukk-list. If you want to buff a vehicle it should be the Battlewagon. The wagon could do with a couple of more wounds and slightly cheaper weapons. This would also help to differentiate the to vehicles more, letting the BW transport high density models like characters, nobz, MANZ and such, while the trukk would be the best option for boyz.