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You haven't posted your opponents list so we have no idea how competitive it was. I wouldn't expect the units you're using to get buffs in the codex, you'll be lucky if they're not nerfed to be honest. Particularly KMKs. Maybe Boyz will get some passive buffs through our equivalent to chapter tactics and stratagems.

And units shouldn't be terrible, lol.

There should actually be a difficult decision when deciding what to take and it's idiots shouting about how "amazing", "great" or even "fine" Orks are that do nothing to help us. We have a decent mono-build list, that is it. It's equivalent to only Tzeench demons being playable and having the units from other gods be useless - I'm sure all the Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh players would have something to say.

Not everyone wants to play Footslogging Boyz and when you come to play a 2000 pt game you'll struggle to finish with our most competitive list as it stands now in most tournament settings. But what do I know, you've played one whole competitive game at 1250 pts so I guess you know all there is to know about Orks now. I'm sure you'd have definitely won if only you'd remembered Green Tide. Maybe next time.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You haven't posted your opponents list so we have no idea how competitive it was. I wouldn't expect the units you're using to get buffs in the codex, you'll be lucky if they're not nerfed to be honest. Particularly KMKs. Maybe Boyz will get some passive buffs through our equivalent to chapter tactics and stratagems.

And units shouldn't be terrible, lol.

There should actually be a difficult decision when deciding what to take and it's idiots shouting about how "amazing", "great" or even "fine" Orks are that do nothing to help us. We have a decent mono-build list, that is it. It's equivalent to only Tzeench demons being playable and having the units from other gods be useless - I'm sure all the Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh players would have something to say.

Not everyone wants to play Footslogging Boyz and when you come to play a 2000 pt game you'll struggle to finish with our most competitive list as it stands now in most tournament settings. But what do I know, you've played one whole competitive game at 1250 pts so I guess you know all there is to know about Orks now. I'm sure you'd have definitely won if only you'd remembered Green Tide. Maybe next time.

I personally would prefer this thread to be about how to play the best army we have, when discussing that army what are the best nuanced things we can do with it. When this thread becomes complaining that the best thing we have is "boring" I don't think that is strategic, tactical, or helpful. I think those discussions belong in a more general thread instead of the only thread we have to discuss tactics.

"And units shouldn't be terrible, lol."

Really? Who would ever think that. Terrible units need to exist so people feel bad about their cool models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And now that I have 3 armies I can tell you:

AdMech - why do I have to go Mars: Cawl and DakKastelans :( (and take astra militarum)
Daemons - why do I have to go brimstones, changeling, character spam :( (and take CSM eq)
Orks - why do I have to go green tide :(




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I fought the tournament favorite with his best list for a practice match with an army I have never played.

That said.... I will NOT take Orks to the tournament, because:
1) I'm too inexperienced with them.
2) 1 hour per player time limit

Here come the brothers of destruction list then (you know which brothers) ^_^

hollow one wrote:

I personally would prefer this thread to be about how to play the best army we have, when discussing that army what are the best nuanced things we can do with it. When this thread becomes complaining that the best thing we have is "boring" I don't think that is strategic, tactical, or helpful. I think those discussions belong in a more general thread instead of the only thread we have to discuss tactics.

So would I but there are only so many ways people can say "take more Boyz". You'll notice a couple if pages back I asked for the discussion to focus on bikes and their virtues. All I got back is how many Boyz I could get for their price, how overly expensive the bike upgrade is and why Boyz perform so much better. All very true and pertinent points. To take a unit other than massed Boyz/Storm Boyz and maybe Kommandos is to self nerf to the point that you're no longer playing competitively.

There isn't much to say on our current viable list in terms of tactical nuance that hasn't already been said. Advance up the field. Stay in your buff bubbles. Use da jump and smite where possible. Daisy chain buffs if you're feeling kinky. Remember your rules. It's the same gak we've been doing for every edition since 3rd.

Its even been discussed how best to use grot crews of mek guns for feths sake. I think we are at blood outta stone territory if you're expecting much in the way of new tactical information until our codex drops.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

hollow one wrote:

I personally would prefer this thread to be about how to play the best army we have, when discussing that army what are the best nuanced things we can do with it. When this thread becomes complaining that the best thing we have is "boring" I don't think that is strategic, tactical, or helpful. I think those discussions belong in a more general thread instead of the only thread we have to discuss tactics.

So would I but there are only so many ways people can say "take more Boyz". You'll notice a couple if pages back I asked for the discussion to focus on bikes and their virtues. All I got back is how many Boyz I could get for their price, how overly expensive the bike upgrade is and why Boyz perform so much better. All very true and pertinent points. To take a unit other than massed Boyz/Storm Boyz and maybe Kommandos is to self nerf to the point that you're no longer playing competitively.

There isn't much to say on our current viable list in terms of tactical nuance that hasn't already been said. Advance up the field. Stay in your buff bubbles. Use da jump and smite where possible. Daisy chain buffs if you're feeling kinky. Remember your rules. It's the same gak we've been doing for every edition since 3rd.

Its even been discussed how best to use grot crews of mek guns for feths sake. I think we are at blood outta stone territory if you're expecting much in the way of new tactical information until our codex drops.

Im still waiting for someone to mob up, warpath and da jump 20meganobz, not that there is much further tactics to discuss in such a strategy. I dont have the models to try it. I'd guess the rest of the list would be for screen removal...

Hi, long time follower of the thread but I don't post here much. So I know the drill, boyz > anything else at the moment.
However, this will be a bit of a challenge for you kunnin but brutal tacticians out there. I'm looking on advice for a bit of themed list that wont flop, will play quickly and should make some nice narrative events. I don't want to crush my opponents but give them a bit of a anxiety complex!

The background:
Last year, near the end of 7th when i'd got a good grip on ork strengths and weaknesses, I went to games weekend with my brother where we each took 900pts (1800 total split evenly) and played 5 other pairs (WHW battle brothers). We took a super aggressive list that was hugely fun and quick to play. I took 3 meganob missiles with minimum meganobz, backed up by 29 boyz, nob with BP and PK + pain boyz and sacrificial mek + 3 defkoptas. My brother, took a khorne based list, 3 mauler fiends, 2 small squads of bikes kharn the betrayer with some berserkers in a rhino and couple of other things I cant remember. The idea was a 1-2 punch completely ignoring objectives. Meganobz turboosted in their trukks in turn 1, absorbed silly amounts of hate (i.e. firepower) disembarking out of LoS when the trukks died, the trukks blocked movement and avenues of escape for opponent and turn 2, the hosts of khorne were on your doorstep. it was surprisingly effective considering we were expecting it to get blown off the table as often as not. against certain list we knew it would die on its ass but as it turned out the lists we drew it turned out pretty well and all our opponents told us they enjoyed playing against it as it was a bit different to a lot of things at the event. I think it worked as we saturated the game with medium/light vehicles and difficult choices as to the threats. Do you ignore the trucks and take out the Maulers before they make contact turn 2, letting the megnobz tie up everything and trucks to block lines of fire. Or focus the trucks and meganobz then take your chances with 3 maulerfiends and kharn punching their way through your lines. All good fun, scary yet totally beatable with good target prioritisation. however the opponents were often a bit overwhelmed by all the immediate threats and chose poorly.


Lists:
Since we enjoyed the style of game we played (hyper aggressive) and was our most fun at one of these events we'd like to do the same this year. From the khorne side we're looking at 3 squads of berserkers (18 in all) and kharn + lord in 2 rhinos plus a mauler fiend (3 drops). Again he will be aiming to munch his way through the opponents army from turn 2 onwards. So my list should be trying to get into the opponents face early on.

I just don't have the points for the same as last year (3 meganob missiles + 3 defkoptas alone would cost 870 before toyz + HQs).

The list I've got so far
warboss with PK
warboss with BC on bike
4x trukks (BS +wreckin ball)
3x 11boyz + BC nob
1x 10 boyz + BC nob.
3 warbikers

The boyz + warboss on foot ride in trukks. warboss on bike applied where aura is needed with the bikes providing him a little extra screening. I know the boyz squads will not do great damage but if they are all dead turn 3 I wont care as 18 berserkers + kharn will be carving their way through the lines. The trukks are a real points sink but will aim to multi charge units causing the opponent to withdraw and take away some incoming shooting. (9 drops across both armies)

Also I'd like to avoid psykers for thematic reasons (kharn would likely murder any wierdboyz I have!). This rules out our best delivery method but I think we allhave seen enough comments about taking boyz + wierdboyz ad nauseum.

My concern is this list is just a little too flimsy a couple of good dmg rolls and I'm stuck with about 40 boyz footslogging. I'm not aiming for super competitive but something that works would be fun any tips would be great. I've got an alternative list.

An alternative I came up with was
G.squiggoth (2 twin big shoota + 2 big zappa)
big mek + BC and KFF
Snikrot
5 nobz, 1 with PK 4 x BC, all with kustom shootas and 4 ammo runts
2x 5 tank bustas

All ride in the squiggoth with the 5++ except snikrot. He can act independently and engage soft targets. (Also I've yet to use the conversion I've done of him). Everyone stays in the G squiggoth shooting out. If/when the squiggoth dies the nobz should be in position to do some decent damage or they could jump out turn 3 to join in the slaughter. tank bustas can run for some ruins with the big mek and continue to fire over the heads of the advancing berserkers. This is very much eggs in 1 basket but with 5 drops for the entire 2 armies we should bag good chances of going first.

Anyhow, tips or things to improve efficiency all very much appreciated. I'm trying to keep the hyper aggressive theme, prefer to finish the games around turn 3 at these events as its nice to share a pint with opponents in bugmans whilst waiting for the next game though and each game is allotted 2.5 hrs. there is no prize, and no real glory for whoever wins so enjoyment is the aim. I know I've put a lot of restrictions in but perhaps someone out there might have some nice ideas.

The aggressive theme is fine for 900 points armies in some metas that are not extremely competitive but still quite serious.

I'd take buggies, especially skorchas over bikes since they can outflank and they're also cheaper. Two warbosses are probably too many for 900 points, I'd drop the biker boss and replace him with a biker mek with KFF which makes your trukks a bit more durable. You may also try to cut 2 trukks and use a BW instead, which can carry 2x10 boyz or a bigger unit of 19 that is joined by the warboss. Basically the same points but one lesser drop and T8.

Warboss with headwoppa killchoppa
Big mek with bike, KFF and big choppa
2x12 boyz with pk in trukks
19 boyz with pk
Battlewagon with 'ard case
2 skorchas

900 points.

New Top Tier Tournament list for Orkz. Able to win every game it plays.

HQ: Weirdboy
Elites: 4x Herders w/hound
Troops: 20x 30 Grotz

There, new tactic. Just fill the entire fething board with Grotz and deny the enemy a chance to deploy reserves in our area and just hold the objectives by sheer weight of numbers. Good Luck Girlyman gun line remove 600 Grots who are basically immune to leadership tests.

 Blackie wrote:
The aggressive theme is fine for 900 points armies in some metas that are not extremely competitive but still quite serious.

I'd take buggies, especially skorchas over bikes since they can outflank and they're also cheaper. Two warbosses are probably too many for 900 points, I'd drop the biker boss and replace him with a biker mek with KFF which makes your trukks a bit more durable. You may also try to cut 2 trukks and use a BW instead, which can carry 2x10 boyz or a bigger unit of 19 that is joined by the warboss. Basically the same points but one lesser drop and T8.

Warboss with headwoppa killchoppa
Big mek with bike, KFF and big choppa
2x12 boyz with pk in trukks
19 boyz with pk
Battlewagon with 'ard case
2 skorchas

900 points.

Brilliant ideas Blackie, thank you for the appliance of your mental juices to my list building. I really like it. I currently don't have a BW, skorchas or Bigmek on bike but I have a few months to get them built and painted. I've been hoping and praying for a new buggy/skorcha kit for a while, I guess I need to just get on and convert some.

SemperMortis wrote:
New Top Tier Tournament list for Orkz. Able to win every game it plays.

HQ: Weirdboy
Elites: 4x Herders w/hound
Troops: 20x 30 Grotz

There, new tactic. Just fill the entire fething board with Grotz and deny the enemy a chance to deploy reserves in our area and just hold the objectives by sheer weight of numbers. Good Luck Girlyman gun line remove 600 Grots who are basically immune to leadership tests.

You jest, but this list has some serious advantages:

1) Surprise factor. Nobody uses more than a few dozen grots, so you can catch people unawares when you start placing grots on the table and don’t stop placing grots on the table until they’re past finished deploying their army.

2) Shock factor. “Your army is 600 what?” If your opponent pulls a Chryssipus and dies of laughter, then they’ll be unable to setup their minis and be disqualified for slow play.

3) Fatigue. Your opponent has to remove over 600 models one way or another to table you. That’s a lot of picking up models. The sheer annoyance of having to remove everything will take it’s toll on your opponent, meanwhile because all your units can’t shoot further than 12” and most of it doesn’t want to be in melee, you’re basically playing a tabletop marching simulator. If you use movement trays your turns could involve as few dice rolls as a GK army, and be much faster to play than a conventional MSU army. Heck, your shooting is so anemic you can even skip it entirely if you’re pressed for time.

4) Simplicity. Need an army but haven’t memorized the entire index yet? Now you only need to bookmark 3 pages and you’re good to spend all your mental energy on remembering what your opponent’s stuff does.

5) Price. There are loads of the 2nd edition grot minis with the silly-looking Viking helmet and the oversized blocky grot rifle for cheap on eBay. If you don’t mind an army that looks like gak or if you get discounts in bulk, it could be fairly cost-effective. And nobody is going to critique the paintjob of more than a couple of units nearest to them.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

hollow one wrote:

I personally would prefer this thread to be about how to play the best army we have, when discussing that army what are the best nuanced things we can do with it. When this thread becomes complaining that the best thing we have is "boring" I don't think that is strategic, tactical, or helpful. I think those discussions belong in a more general thread instead of the only thread we have to discuss tactics.

So would I but there are only so many ways people can say "take more Boyz". You'll notice a couple if pages back I asked for the discussion to focus on bikes and their virtues. All I got back is how many Boyz I could get for their price, how overly expensive the bike upgrade is and why Boyz perform so much better. All very true and pertinent points. To take a unit other than massed Boyz/Storm Boyz and maybe Kommandos is to self nerf to the point that you're no longer playing competitively.

There isn't much to say on our current viable list in terms of tactical nuance that hasn't already been said. Advance up the field. Stay in your buff bubbles. Use da jump and smite where possible. Daisy chain buffs if you're feeling kinky. Remember your rules. It's the same gak we've been doing for every edition since 3rd.

Its even been discussed how best to use grot crews of mek guns for feths sake. I think we are at blood outta stone territory if you're expecting much in the way of new tactical information until our codex drops.

Yeah mate I was part of that discussion, I recommended comparing bikes to Dakkajets, which was a more reasonable comparison and one where I think the plane wins. And no, the nuance has not been discussed in here at all. Lets say we bring the most basic of all lists, weirdboyz and boyz ONLY, from what I've read there has been no discussion on how it plays out. What does it kill really well? What are its weaknesses? what should we avoid on the board, what do we need to tar-pit? what sort of formation is most effective? When do you jump? is turn 1 suicide a boyz squad always correct? do you bring weirdboyz inside the boyz? Who has posted a bat-rep of this army and has sparked a strategic discussion about mis-plays e.g. "I targetted the stormravens with my smites but it was a bad choice, I should be able to kill it or ignore it, otherwise it flys away".

And obviously this is just with two types of units. I think my army is competitive and I bring 6+ types of units; boyz, stormboyz, tankbustahs, weirdboyz, KMKs, a dakkajet, and some HQ. It's REALLY hard to play. Last game I played I realised that I could force my opponent to kill my dakkajet if I flew it in front of a flank of mek gun grotts, since it will cleanly protect them by being the closest unit. That's a big deal for me, free's up my stormboyz to be used more aggressively and forces my opponent to shoot the most durable thing in my army. I hadn't considered that before. I don't even know if I'm using my stormboyz right, honestly.

I bet any expert of the game would pickup my army and play it better than me, but I don't know how and under what circumstances. For example a few pages back someone said that rvd's army's weakeness was hordes, whereas for me hordes are a sure win (I run an army similar to rvd's). Why do we have such opposite opinions? Clearly we are playing differently. What is going on? I desperately want to understand my army more, but I don't know what questions to ask and I am not gleaning clever play tips from this thread. I'm reading a lot of list building advice, but as far as everyone is considered that is "solved". I asked a tonne of questions back when I posted my list for an upcoming tournament, and Jidmah was the only person who gave me responses (thanks bro), everyone else continued talking about how the DDD! stratagem was terrible.

hollow one wrote:
Yeah mate I was part of that discussion, I recommended comparing bikes to Dakkajets, which was a more reasonable comparison and one where I think the plane wins. And no, the nuance has not been discussed in here at all. Lets say we bring the most basic of all lists, weirdboyz and boyz ONLY, from what I've read there has been no discussion on how it plays out. What does it kill really well? What are its weaknesses? what should we avoid on the board, what do we need to tar-pit? what sort of formation is most effective? When do you jump? is turn 1 suicide a boyz squad always correct? do you bring weirdboyz inside the boyz? Who has posted a bat-rep of this army and has sparked a strategic discussion about mis-plays e.g. "I targetted the stormravens with my smites but it was a bad choice, I should be able to kill it or ignore it, otherwise it flys away".

And obviously this is just with two types of units. I think my army is competitive and I bring 6+ types of units; boyz, stormboyz, tankbustahs, weirdboyz, KMKs, a dakkajet, and some HQ. It's REALLY hard to play. Last game I played I realised that I could force my opponent to kill my dakkajet if I flew it in front of a flank of mek gun grotts, since it will cleanly protect them by being the closest unit. That's a big deal for me, free's up my stormboyz to be used more aggressively and forces my opponent to shoot the most durable thing in my army. I hadn't considered that before. I don't even know if I'm using my stormboyz right, honestly.

I bet any expert of the game would pickup my army and play it better than me, but I don't know how and under what circumstances. For example a few pages back someone said that rvd's army's weakeness was hordes, whereas for me hordes are a sure win (I run an army similar to rvd's). Why do we have such opposite opinions? Clearly we are playing differently. What is going on? I desperately want to understand my army more, but I don't know what questions to ask and I am not gleaning clever play tips from this thread. I'm reading a lot of list building advice, but as far as everyone is considered that is "solved". I asked a tonne of questions back when I posted my list for an upcoming tournament, and Jidmah was the only person who gave me responses (thanks bro), everyone else continued talking about how the DDD! stratagem was terrible.

If you actually want feedback on how to play with specific units and in what circumstances you'll need to elaborate. What do you play against generally? What have you struggled with and under what circumstances? The general competitive list that Orks can run, is not an "insta-win button" despite what others may claim. It struggles against gun-lines particularly when against good players who position well. It struggles against Storm Ravens and other powerful flying units. I find that it struggles with Eldar lists (that contain a ton of models with flyer keyword). The reason it struggles is because you can't lock them in combat or catch them as half as easy as you can non-flying units.

Regarding your questions on the Weirdboyz and Boyz I think you'll find this (that was posted a few pages back) illuminating; https://tidesofdestruction.blogspot.com

You Jump each and every turn you need to. The decision to Jump is one that is entirely dependent on the in-game situation.

If you want us to discuss your list in detail, post it again and see what responses you get. Be more specific with what you find works well and (more importantly) what you're struggling with. Posting for tactical advice when CA is round the corner wasn't the best move to get you noticed and I'm not even sure I had joined the forum at that point. There comes a point of course when you're just going to have to learn your list, learn your opponents strengths and weaknesses and play to them. The only way to get that is through experience.

Hey guys, just finished a 2v1 2500 pts game. Dark Angels and Orks (me) against Nids. I had a lot of models missing (mostly grots) so I couldn't field mek gunz.

My list:
Zhadsnark
Weirdboy w/ Da Jump
Big Mek on bike w/ KFF
Painboy w/ Grot
2x 30 Choppa Boyz w/ PK Nob
1x 12 Grots
3x 1 Skorcha
2x Big Trakk w/ Supa-Skorcha

Dark Angels: Azazel (or whatever his name is), 10 deepstriking shooty termis, 5 hellblasters, 6 shooty bikes, a shooty land speeder...

Tyranids: 2 flyrants, broodlord, 9 more psychers, genestealers, hormagaunts, ravenous swarms...

Nids won the game 11 to 10 after game 5, was really close, could have gone either way.

Comments:
1) Everything except the gretchins and skorchas were in the KFF bubble (with the painboy for the infantries). Worked well but the nids had not a lot of shooty stuff. I don't know if the Big mek paid his points... He did kill a few genestealer, though.
2) Gretchins were great for preventing deepstriking units and taking smite damage. I need more!
3) Why the heck did I chose Da Jump instead of Warpath... I didn't Jump anything, not enough jumping targets (60 boyz) and the nids were running towards us.
4) I didn't like skorchas. Arriving from anywhere and not being able to shoot anything? I would prefer buggies I think, even though their shooting is negligible... But they are faster, that 2" might be worth it sometimes.
5) Big trakks were empty because nids don't have vehicles so tankbustas seemed wasted. Against a non-shooty army, they were really good. Finished the game at full health, they wrecked face. ~8 autohits S6 AP-2 D1? Yes please! You only need to keep them away from close combat, obviously people will want to engage them via pile in. Outside of tankbustas, I don't see what we could put inside (shooty unit with assault weapons).
6) Painboy, I didn't manage a lot of 6+++ saves (and against multi-damage wounds that's useless), but healing Zhadsnark every turn was godsend.
7) The pile in move seems a bit broken. My squad of boyz was engaged against a psycher, but my PK nob was far away from it. I wanted to pile in my nob towards the psycher so he could fight, but I couldn't since another enemy model was closer. But I could not pile in towards this closer model because it would break coherency. So my PK was sitting there, doing nothing, scratching his butt with his PK...
8) Psycher spam is so strong. Nids had 7 different psycher character/unit. Termis were dying like flies. I would gladly replace the weirdboy staff for a 3++ save (like the neurothropes and venomthropes have)...

Any thoughts?

Ashkayel wrote:
3) Why the heck did I chose Da Jump instead of Warpath... I didn't Jump anything, not enough jumping targets (60 boyz) and the nids were running towards us.

For lists that have little to no units worth jumping, I tend to skip entirely on the weird boy now. You could also try to include a suicidal unit of tank bustaz and jump that onto his zoanthropes to blow them up. Every unsaved wound is a dead psyker.

4) I didn't like skorchas. Arriving from anywhere and not being able to shoot anything? I would prefer buggies I think, even though their shooting is negligible... But they are faster, that 2" might be worth it sometimes.

Just deploy them onto the board with your amy. They are reasonably tough to weather some shooting and they can still shoot after advancing. In my experience they work a lot better that way because 12" move + d6 advance + 9" range means they can pretty much be anywhere in turn 1. Outflank is pretty useless, I stopped using it for skorchas.

5) Big trakks were empty because nids don't have vehicles so tankbustas seemed wasted. Against a non-shooty army, they were really good. Finished the game at full health, they wrecked face. ~8 autohits S6 AP-2 D1? Yes please! You only need to keep them away from close combat, obviously people will want to engage them via pile in. Outside of tankbustas, I don't see what we could put inside (shooty unit with assault weapons).

Even if you don't get re-rolls, you still have bunch of rokkits, a tank busta bomb and bomb squigs which hit monsters on 2+ just like vehicles. If you don't plan on disembarking, maybe a pair of rokkit pistols might help to discourage charges. Outside of that, nobz would probably be your next best bet.

8) Psycher spam is so strong. Nids had 7 different psycher character/unit. Termis were dying like flies. I would gladly replace the weirdboy staff for a 3++ save (like the neurothropes and venomthropes have)...

Yes it is. However, your army had a pretty low model count, if you would add another unit of boyz or two (trukks, BWs and kanz do a good job at this as well), those smites would become worthless really fast. You could even park skorchas next to them to protect the termiantors. When I play team games with orks, my job is usually to eat all the smites with boyz. Your team mate needs to make sure that his terminators are not the closest unit to all the psykers (they can usually take a smite or two without falling flat on their face), and make killing them his top priority. Alway remember that smites cannot pick their targets.

One of my usual team partners is also a DA player, when using the "Weapons of the Dark Age" stratagem, his hellblasters and raven wing knights hit zoanthropes on 3+, rerolling ones, wound them on 2+, and every failed 3++ save means a dead zoanthrope.

Did you play with the stacking -1 smite rules?

 Jidmah wrote:
For lists that have little to no units worth jumping, I tend to skip entirely on the weird boy now. You could also try to include a suicidal unit of tank bustaz and jump that onto his zoanthropes to blow them up. Every unsaved wound is a dead psyker.

He would have paid his points with warpath and smites, and with the CP he unlocked, I guess.

Just deploy them onto the board with your amy. They are reasonably tough to weather some shooting and they can still shoot after advancing. In my experience they work a lot better that way because 12" move + d6 advance + 9" range means they can pretty much be anywhere in turn 1. Outflank is pretty useless, I stopped using it for skorchas.

Hmm I'll try that next time, thanks!

Even if you don't get re-rolls, you still have bunch of rokkits, a tank busta bomb and bomb squigs which hit monsters on 2+ just like vehicles. If you don't plan on disembarking, maybe a pair of rokkit pistols might help to discourage charges. Outside of that, nobz would probably be your next best bet.

I will think about it. Rokkit pistols won't deter hormagaunts and genestealers from locking the big trakk, though. Nobz could be nice but of course they must disembark, while tankbustas can stay embarked the whole game. If at least kustom shootas could be 2 pts instead of 4...

Yes it is. However, your army had a pretty low model count, if you would add another unit of boyz or two (trukks, BWs and kanz do a good job at this as well), those smites would become worthless really fast. You could even park skorchas next to them to protect the termiantors. When I play team games with orks, my job is usually to eat all the smites with boyz. Your team mate needs to make sure that his terminators are not the closest unit to all the psykers (they can usually take a smite or two without falling flat on their face), and make killing them his top priority. Alway remember that smites cannot pick their targets.

Yeah the first 2 turns he could only smite gretchins, boyz and skorchas, thanks to clever positioning. Starting on turn 3 he was smiting hellblasters and termis, that wasn't pretty. I couldn't really field more boyz since a lot of my models weren't available. A 3rd mob of 30 boyz would have been useful­.

One of my usual team partners is also a DA player, when using the "Weapons of the Dark Age" stratagem, his hellblasters and raven wing knights hit zoanthropes on 3+, rerolling ones, wound them on 2+, and every failed 3++ save means a dead zoanthrope.

I'll look into that, thanks.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Did you play with the stacking -1 smite rules?

Yes we did, however we forgot that even a failed attempt to manifest Smite still adds 1 to the next attempt.

When fighting nids, you have to focus fire units until they are gone. The best thing to focus is gonna be the Genestealers for sure. The use you high AP and smite to take out the Flyrants.

As much as smite spam is annoying, its gonna be hard to kill 7 nueronthropes/zoanthropes with the 3++ save spamming smite all over. Best chance is to hope for perils and the stacking penalty until he fails.

The skorchas/ any flamers are great because you get the auto hits, even on overwatch so make sure you put those guys on the board.

Had 2 games today. Was taking a mixed tide. 70 boyz, 9 manz, some mek gunz and a bunch of characters.

First game was vs dark angel primaris gunline with a ton of plazma and some interceptors. The enemy screwed up with interceptors and lost them 1st turn. Than it was all about running forward and orks ended up with a narrow victory.

2d game was against an ig gunline with a lot of leman russes, Yarrikk, some psychers and bauble wrap. He got 1st turn and that's pretty much all he needed. Orks managed to kill like 80 pt of guards in a 1500 pt game. Full army re-rolls, double shots and never ending command points are too much to handle. There was only one fighting chance for orks in such game. 1st turn, than successful deepstrike and successful first turn charge with consolidation. But it didn't happen. Can't see what can be done tactics-wise against this large dakka blobs with re-rolls.

In the end:
Kmk were decent.
Ghaz was decent.
Mefanonz were useless.
Don't mix stuff up in competitive games. Take either max boyz, kommandoes and stormboyz or forgeworld. I doubt fw would be better in this case tbh. He'd easilly down any vehicle or monster turn 1 with such amount of multidamage weapons.

1) I think twin weirdboyz is a solid choice. The deny is very useful against psyker-heavy armies, and the escalating smite modifier really doesn't affect them. Warpath and Da Jump are both very usefull spells.

2) Jumping in a max squad of boyz is not always the best thing to do, but there is always SOMETHING you can jump.

Jumping a squad of shootas forward so they can shoot without advancing.

Putting a squad of shootas into cover, teleporting neatly into every floor of a far off ruin.

Jumping something on top of an empty objective.

Jumping Ghaz/KKF/painboy to wherever his buff is needed.

Jumping lootas/tankbustas out of CC so they can shoot etc.

Some armies has a stratagem that can recycle a large blob of units (cultists, hormagaunts) by redeploying them at full strength near a board edge, but more than 9" away from enemy models. With Da Jump on a large blob you can deny this from happening along an entire board edge, forcing him to deploy away from his buff-bots.

You can da jump 30 stormboyz fully behind solid terrain somewhere. Getting all 30 fully behind a terrain piece is not always easy with regular movement, but with da-jump it is much easier to pack your blob against the terrain. You are not doing this in order to charge the enemy in the same turn. You are positioning you blob for a charge in your next turn.

3) When playing a competetive Imperial Guard list you will need to bring your absolute A-game. And that is boyz/kommandos/stormboyz spam. Preferably more than 200 bodies.

4) How can you take 600 grots and only a single HQ?

Question Re: big trakks: do people bother adding any other wargear than the supa-skorcha? I've been running mine with 2x skorchas and grot riggers on top of the supa skorcha. They normally transport my tankbustas so they're not a suicide unit but I've been wondering if I could just shave off the excess and use the points from the skorchas and riggers elsewhere.

 koooaei wrote:

Mefanonz were useless.

9 of them probably are. But IMHO a unit of 4, maybe 5, all with killsaws isn't that bad in a list that relies on walkers and transports.


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pismakron wrote:


4) How can you take 600 grots and only a single HQ?

You can't, that list would be illegal in matched games. You need several weirdboyz to dispose of hundreds of gretchins.


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 Jidmah wrote:

Just deploy them onto the board with your amy. They are reasonably tough to weather some shooting and they can still shoot after advancing. In my experience they work a lot better that way because 12" move + d6 advance + 9" range means they can pretty much be anywhere in turn 1. Outflank is pretty useless, I stopped using it for skorchas.

I also prefer deploying them with the army, rather than outflanking them. Since I usually play with vehicles and sometimes walkers those 54 points skorchas are also useful to prevent deepstrikers to arrive too close to more valuable targets.

 Blackie wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Mefanonz were useless.

9 of them probably are. But IMHO a unit of 4, maybe 5, all with killsaws isn't that bad in a list that relies on walkers and transports.

They were in 2 suads - one had 5 bodies, another had 4 bodies. They are fairly choppy for the price, have a bit of shooting with tl shootas. But their durability is just really low in a list where they are prime targets for anti-tank weapons. Well, that's not a surprise. You can only be competitive if you exceedingly spam one thing in 8-th. But i just have a ton of beautifully painted manz lying on the shelf. Eh. Maybe next edition...
Currently there are just no transports fit for meganobz that are durable yet cheap enough. And footslogging proved to be a non-option. Perhaps if we get a strategem to charge 3d6 there is going to be some merit taking 10+ manz. But i doubt they'll be doing better than regular boyz.

Oh, i'd like to point out that i had a mob up strategem win me the 1-st game. Had a couple boyz near the enemy, brought another 20 nearby, mobbed them up and charged. Tied up a lot of stuff denying the opponent a shooting phase which was enough for Ghaz to come in and start wrecking heavilly armored faces.

Elite multi-wound infantry is still very squishy. A Leman russ is less than 14 points per wound, a tactical marine is 13 points per wound, a warbiker is 13.5 points per wound, a twin-killsaw meganob is 16 points per wound, intercessors are 9 points per wound. The only reasonably durable multi-wound infantry is things like Nobz and Tyranid Warriors which is 8-9 points per wound.

And any weapon that is good at killing tanks will also be effective against elite infantry, while very inefficient against boyz, guardsmen and such.

Imagine if all infantry was single-wound. Then Nobz could be 11 points, MANZ could be 16, warbikers could be 17. It would fix a lot of things.

This has probably been discussed before, but whats the consensus between BC vs PK for Warbosses and Nobz (in boyz squads)? When 8th first dropped BCs made more sense, but with CA theres only a 6 point difference so im wondering if thats changed thoughts at all.

I prefer PK. But either is fine. None of them make such a huge impact.

On a warboss, always use the relic. It's the same as PK against almost every target and vastly better against units of single-wound models.

I always use pks, unless I'm a bit short on points and forced to take big choppas instead.

The headwoppa is amazing, a footslogging warboss with that relic is only 62 points, as cheap as a weirdboy. It makes the old metal warboss, the only warboss present in the GW catalogue, worthy of being part of the game.

 Billagio wrote:
This has probably been discussed before, but whats the consensus between BC vs PK for Warbosses and Nobz (in boyz squads)? When 8th first dropped BCs made more sense, but with CA theres only a 6 point difference so im wondering if thats changed thoughts at all.

Warboss 1 normally has Headwoppa's Kill Choppa relic from CA (so BC).

Any other Warbosses normally have PKs for me but since I run Zhadsnark I get his sexy relic Klaw which is nice.

Nobz in Boyz squads I prefer to give the PKs if I can because they are some of the most protected PKs we have access to. As has already been said though, the difference is negligible really.

I just realized this, and its most likely because I don't have one, but the Gorkanauts Primary weapon, the Deffstorm Mega Shooter...is about 1/3rd as effective as an Asscan Razorback....Now, you could argue that the Razorback only has that one weapon (3 if you upgrade to Hunter/seeker and Stormbolter) and therefore it makes sense, but if you look, A Gorkanaut is 356pts, you could afford 3 Razorbacks and some spare change for the same price as 1 Gorkanaut. I am not advocating here for the Gorkanaut to be brought down to 100pts or something stupid, but is it too much to ask for GW to give us a GIANT Gattling gun that is at least AS effective as a much smaller, fewer barreled dual Assault Cannon? 7D6 shots would give the Deffstorm roughly the same number of hits on average as a Dual Asscan, and even if you were blessed by Gork and Mork and rolled all 6s (good luck with that) you will end up with 42 shots which will still only give you....14 hits

SemperMortis wrote:
I just realized this, and its most likely because I don't have one, but the Gorkanauts Primary weapon, the Deffstorm Mega Shooter...is about 1/3rd as effective as an Asscan Razorback....Now, you could argue that the Razorback only has that one weapon (3 if you upgrade to Hunter/seeker and Stormbolter) and therefore it makes sense, but if you look, A Gorkanaut is 356pts, you could afford 3 Razorbacks and some spare change for the same price as 1 Gorkanaut. I am not advocating here for the Gorkanaut to be brought down to 100pts or something stupid, but is it too much to ask for GW to give us a GIANT Gattling gun that is at least AS effective as a much smaller, fewer barreled dual Assault Cannon? 7D6 shots would give the Deffstorm roughly the same number of hits on average as a Dual Asscan, and even if you were blessed by Gork and Mork and rolled all 6s (good luck with that) you will end up with 42 shots which will still only give you....14 hits

Are you saying you want one of our weapons to fire potentially more shots than an Imperial counterpart?! Get out.