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So, over in the rumours thread, it has been postulated that it's December for Orks. But, the exciting thing is that it looks like a 'Kult of Speed' subfaction with new mini's is going to be part of the release.

Both frustrating at time to release, but quite exciting as it looks like it'll be a major Ork release. (If the rumours are true.)

Which does mean, until then, keep painting those boyz.

 Rinkydink wrote:
So, over in the rumours thread, it has been postulated that it's December for Orks. But, the exciting thing is that it looks like a 'Kult of Speed' subfaction with new mini's is going to be part of the release.

Both frustrating at time to release, but quite exciting as it looks like it'll be a major Ork release. (If the rumours are true.)

Which does mean, until then, keep painting those boyz.

I'm taking this rumor with copious amounts of salt, as in I don't really believe it at all. First we heard June, now it's December. I'm going to wait for an official statement before I start getting excited or frustrated, though I do sadly expect we'll get our codex n ear the last.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 Rinkydink wrote:
So, over in the rumours thread, it has been postulated that it's December for Orks. But, the exciting thing is that it looks like a 'Kult of Speed' subfaction with new mini's is going to be part of the release.

Both frustrating at time to release, but quite exciting as it looks like it'll be a major Ork release. (If the rumours are true.)

Which does mean, until then, keep painting those boyz.

I'm taking this rumor with copious amounts of salt, as in I don't really believe it at all. First we heard June, now it's December. I'm going to wait for an official statement before I start getting excited or frustrated, though I do sadly expect we'll get our codex n ear the last.

At the rate they were pushing out factions before the new Year I tend to think everyone will have a codex before July/August. I also doubt Orkz will get much love because we are the 40k Whipping boyz and giving us a good Kult of Speed would make us happy and competitive, something GW hates to see.

 Rinkydink wrote:
So, over in the rumours thread, it has been postulated that it's December for Orks. But, the exciting thing is that it looks like a 'Kult of Speed' subfaction with new mini's is going to be part of the release.

Both frustrating at time to release, but quite exciting as it looks like it'll be a major Ork release. (If the rumours are true.)

Which does mean, until then, keep painting those boyz.

But paint them what color?

What if clan rules come in and after painting a bunch of blood axes and goffs, I decide that bad moons faction bonus is better suited to my playstyle.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Rinkydink wrote:
So, over in the rumours thread, it has been postulated that it's December for Orks. But, the exciting thing is that it looks like a 'Kult of Speed' subfaction with new mini's is going to be part of the release.

Both frustrating at time to release, but quite exciting as it looks like it'll be a major Ork release. (If the rumours are true.)

Which does mean, until then, keep painting those boyz.

But paint them what color?

What if clan rules come in and after painting a bunch of blood axes and goffs, I decide that bad moons faction bonus is better suited to my playstyle.

Just tell your opponent what rules you're using? It's never mattered what you paint your toys to look like, as long as you let your opponent know what's up.

Edit: for example, my boyz are Deathskull Freebooters. When the rules drop, they'll still be "Deathskull Freebooters" but I'll use whatever keywords best fit my playstyle.

pismakron wrote:
The unit rankings on the first page should be taken with a big grain of salt. The KMK Mek Gun is very good, the rest are bad except the kannon which is mediocre. Kanz and Gorkanauts are mediocre on a good day, but Dreads are worse. Why are you bringing a big mek on a bike without KFF?

The ranking was done before CA was released.

I have never liked those kind of ratings as they are heavily biased, therefore I'm not heavily invested in keeping them up to date. I'll suffle a couple of them around when I find the time to do so, but feel free to do the work for me - I'll add it to the first post and credit whoever has done it.

I suggest putting a burna bomber to the blue bunch as it has an ability to explode that can be used as protection. And the blitza should probably go down to yellow as it's almost never as good as a burna in current meta.

I've recently been running double supa-skorcha big trakks with tankbustas inside them and they've really been the MVP's of my list the last few games I've used them. Having 24" range with 4D3 auto hitting S6 Ap-2 shots seem like an oversight on FW's part and I'm surprised it wasn't hit with the nerf bat in the recent CA. The 24" range synergizes well with the tankbustas and the 14" movement ensures any good targets (of which there are many) will get the burninating they deserve. The 24" range in particular is super good against any counter-assault unit looking to silence them, as the extra range means that you need to be out of LoS to not get a heaping help of hot gumbo before making it into assault with them.

Their 15 wounds help a lot in mitigating anti-tank responses, but ideally the rest of the list targets them as soon as possible because if you get to keep the big trakks alive up to mid-late game, they really get their work done.

They're also a decent hard counter to things that cause -1 to hit via chapter tactics, stratagems or things like flyers, though in the latter case its still usually better to ignore them.

Anyone else feel like that they're the main gem (alongside Zhadsnark of course) of the FW Xenos IA?

 Grimskul wrote:
I've recently been running double supa-skorcha big trakks with tankbustas inside them and they've really been the MVP's of my list the last few games I've used them. Having 24" range with 4D3 auto hitting S6 Ap-2 shots seem like an oversight on FW's part and I'm surprised it wasn't hit with the nerf bat in the recent CA. The 24" range synergizes well with the tankbustas and the 14" movement ensures any good targets (of which there are many) will get the burninating they deserve. The 24" range in particular is super good against any counter-assault unit looking to silence them, as the extra range means that you need to be out of LoS to not get a heaping help of hot gumbo before making it into assault with them.

Their 15 wounds help a lot in mitigating anti-tank responses, but ideally the rest of the list targets them as soon as possible because if you get to keep the big trakks alive up to mid-late game, they really get their work done.

They're also a decent hard counter to things that cause -1 to hit via chapter tactics, stratagems or things like flyers, though in the latter case its still usually better to ignore them.

Anyone else feel like that they're the main gem (alongside Zhadsnark of course) of the FW Xenos IA?

I do. Big trakks are awesome. I only tried them a few times but they did not disappoint. Beware of the "engage via pile in", though. I’m considering bringing 4 in my next 1500 pts game.

Big Trakks are absolute super stars. They are tougher and have more wounds that trukks, whilst getting more variety of wargear.

Keeping them cheap and using them as tankbusta carriers is the best tactic for them imo. Add in a Big Mek with a KFF and it becomes a real beat stick.

Supacannons are a very big gamble. I've had supacannons do nothing for the whole game, or kill a dreadnought in one shooting phase. It becomes a massive fire magnet though.

Did some changes to first post.
- Kommandoz to green as they are doing well in many competitive lists
- Deff dread to red since it's definitely not as good as kanz
- Bommers switched places
- Trukk in same category as battlewagon
- Buggies, wartracks and skorchas updated according to their CA buff
- Artillery listed separately.

Open questions:
- MANz still red?
- Blue and yellow is a wash. I'd appreciate a couple of people ranking the units in those two categories.

I really don't see the point of big-trakks when a battle-wagon is just 14 points more.

 Jidmah wrote:
Did some changes to first post.
- Kommandoz to green as they are doing well in many competitive lists
- Deff dread to red since it's definitely not as good as kanz
- Bommers switched places
- Trukk in same category as battlewagon
- Buggies, wartracks and skorchas updated according to their CA buff
- Artillery listed separately.

Open questions:
- MANz still red?
- Blue and yellow is a wash. I'd appreciate a couple of people ranking the units in those two categories.

I've fielded manz only 2 times. Both times footslogging, mixed in a list with a green tide. And in this scenario they are definitely red vs shooty armies. There's absolutely nothing you can do to protect them from anti-tank fire and they're the only real target to such gunz. The speed is actually not that bad because they're just an inch slower than boyz and 5+d6 doesn't feel that much faster than 4+d6.
As for the mech lists, we're going back to how underwhelming transports are. And that regular nobz are still better in that role cause of ammo runts.
Basically, the point drop didn't help at all cause their problems are not directly linked to their own cost. If trukks suddenly become 40 pts, meganobz would be decent as you would be able to field a ~170 pt manz missile trukk - almost like in 7-th. As is, i think they're still red. There's really no good way to utilise them at the moment. They could theoretically become better if the codex gives them deepstrike. Even for a cp. So that you could drop a 30+boy unit and a unit of manz. Than i'd field maybe 5 of them for the increased chance of actually reaching something and wrecking face alongside boyz and kommandoes. Right now, i'm very unimpressed with how they perform. Choppiness is still average point-for-point. No good delivery methods (with deepstrikes being once per turn, you're almost always better off deepstriking boyz) and they are still insanely vulnerable to heavy weapons that have no other targets in the ork army.

In short, manz don't synergise with the good units in our army.

Manz aren't red, I'd say yellow. Of course more boyz are better but all the units that are listed in yellow are not the best choice for their role as well. 4-5 meganobz with killsaws and 10-12 boyz in a wagon are a decent combo in a mechanized list. I play them quite often.

IMHO they're better than nobz, which aren't even yellow or blue, but light blue.

Manz, while being surely underwhelming, are definitely not as bad as the stompa, burnas, gitz, dread, etc...

Am I completely missng the entry or does Snikrot not have one? Personally I’d put him in light blue if you’re using kommandos or yellow if not, as he’s still good at taking out a few bits of a gunline and is a cheap HQ

 Blackie wrote:
Manz aren't red, I'd say yellow. Of course more boyz are better but all the units that are listed in yellow are not the best choice for their role as well. 4-5 meganobz with killsaws and 10-12 boyz in a wagon are a decent combo in a mechanized list. I play them quite often.

IMHO they're better than nobz, which aren't even yellow or blue, but light blue.

Manz, while being surely underwhelming, are definitely not as bad as the stompa, burnas, gitz, dread, etc...

Why do you think that MANZ are better than nobz? I have no experience with meganobz, but I would tend to agree that they are better than burnas, stompas, traktor kannons etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Multimoog wrote:
Am I completely missng the entry or does Snikrot not have one? Personally I’d put him in light blue if you’re using kommandos or yellow if not, as he’s still good at taking out a few bits of a gunline and is a cheap HQ

There is a lot of stuff missing, especially from Forgeworld. It gets included if people express a sufficiently non-crazy opinion about it.

But maybe we should get that dude Reece to do the rankings, he is apparently a bit of an optimist.

pismakron wrote:
I really don't see the point of big-trakks when a battle-wagon is just 14 points more.

Keep in mind that the one I'm mentioning has the supa-skorcha which the battlewagon doesn't have access to. And while the battlewagon is technically better as far as toughness and wounds go, it doesn't have the speed nor the synergy for weapons that the big trakk has with occupants like tankbustas.

pismakron wrote:


Why do you think that MANZ are better than nobz? I have no experience with meganobz, but I would tend to agree that they are better than burnas, stompas, traktor kannons etc.

Because both units have the same purpose, to damage armored stuff and meganobz are simply better for that job. Compare 6 meganobz with killsaws and 10 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts:

Against T7 3+ save, meganobz deal an average of 16W, nobz only 10.

Against T8 2+ meganobz cause an average of 10W, nobz only 4.

Nobz also have free shootas but against armored targets they shouldn't cause any unsaved wounds, maybe one if you're lucky. A unit with mixed big choppas and pks can cause a little bit more damage but it becomes more expensive. Nobz are way better than meganobz in a footslogging list since ammo runts can absorb lots of anti tank but meganobz tank AP-nothing hits quite better and even against the anti tank they usually have a 4+ or 5+ anyway granted by the 2+ save. In a list without vehicles meganobz are basically useless since they're too vulnerable in the open and da jumping them usually doesn't worth the effort thanks to enemy screeners, but in armored lists they usually perform better than nobz, at least this is my experience with them. I only play meganobz with dual killsaws though.

So far I've played 4 meganobz and 12 boyz in a wagon, 5 and 10 boyz in a wagon and 6 in a wagon. I've also tried 2x5 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts in a wagon, 2x5(+5 runts) and 10 boyz in a wagon, 6+6 runts in a trukk and the 10+10 unit on foot. My experience is based on those combinations.

pismakron wrote:
I really don't see the point of big-trakks when a battle-wagon is just 14 points more.

Of course, I was talking about big trakks with supa-skorcha. I wouldn’t bring a BT without a SS.

pismakron wrote:
There is a lot of stuff missing, especially from Forgeworld. It gets included if people express a sufficiently non-crazy opinion about it.

Forgeworld is missing on purpose. I don't play any since in our area you are only allowed to use the rules if you have the actual FW model, so I'm not heavily investing in finding out what options are not terrible or have been deleted since 5th.

I'll add Snikrot

But maybe we should get that dude Reece to do the rankings, he is apparently a bit of an optimist.

It's not a pretty rainbow anymore if he puts everything in green.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

pismakron wrote:


Why do you think that MANZ are better than nobz? I have no experience with meganobz, but I would tend to agree that they are better than burnas, stompas, traktor kannons etc.

Because both units have the same purpose, to damage armored stuff and meganobz are simply better for that job. Compare 6 meganobz with killsaws and 10 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts:

Against T7 3+ save, meganobz deal an average of 16W, nobz only 10.

Against T8 2+ meganobz cause an average of 10W, nobz only 4.

Nobz also have free shootas but against armored targets they shouldn't cause any unsaved wounds, maybe one if you're lucky. A unit with mixed big choppas and pks can cause a little bit more damage but it becomes more expensive. Nobz are way better than meganobz in a footslogging list since ammo runts can absorb lots of anti tank but meganobz tank AP-nothing hits quite better and even against the anti tank they usually have a 4+ or 5+ anyway granted by the 2+ save. In a list without vehicles meganobz are basically useless since they're too vulnerable in the open and da jumping them usually doesn't worth the effort thanks to enemy screeners, but in armored lists they usually perform better than nobz, at least this is my experience with them. I only play meganobz with dual killsaws though.

So far I've played 4 meganobz and 12 boyz in a wagon, 5 and 10 boyz in a wagon and 6 in a wagon. I've also tried 2x5 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts in a wagon, 2x5(+5 runts) and 10 boyz in a wagon, 6+6 runts in a trukk and the 10+10 unit on foot. My experience is based on those combinations.

Eh, that's selective math at best.

If you compare 6 MANZ with killsaws to 8 nobz with killsaws (for simplicity), they cost exactly the same, except nobz can still shoot. 8 nobz with ammo runts will hit 8.88 times, wound 2.96 times and put .99 damage on a T7 vehicle, half that on T8. There are also tons of T8 3+ models out there, but only (rarely used) one with 2+, making killsaws seem better than they are.
Nobz also have more wounds and gretchin cause some additional damage to be lost to overkill. A multi-melta might kill 3 wounds of MANz, but only one ammo runt.

In addition, nobz can actually bring less than 1.3 killsaws per model which means ablative wound for 7 points a piece. For that reason, nobz can actually footslog alongside an ork horde, MANz cannot.

Not saying that MANz are terrible, but you math is definitely no representing the differences between the units properly.

 Jidmah wrote:


Eh, that's selective math at best.

If you compare 6 MANZ with killsaws to 8 nobz with killsaws (for simplicity), they cost exactly the same, except nobz can still shoot. 8 nobz with ammo runts will hit 8.88 times, wound 2.96 times and put .99 damage on a T7 vehicle, half that on T8. There are also tons of T8 3+ models out there, but only (rarely used) one with 2+, making killsaws seem better than they are.
Nobz also have more wounds and gretchin cause some additional damage to be lost to overkill. A multi-melta might kill 3 wounds of MANz, but only one ammo runt.

In addition, nobz can actually bring less than 1.3 killsaws per model which means ablative wound for 7 points a piece. For that reason, nobz can actually footslog alongside an ork horde, MANz cannot.

Not saying that MANz are terrible, but you math is definitely no representing the differences between the units properly.

I agree, but I was considering what is usually on the table. I haven't seen many nobz with killsaws, and definitely not a full unit of them. Because the box comes with only one bitz.

If you compare 8 nobz with killsaws and 6 meganobz with dual killsaws I agree about saying that nobz are better, they have the same number of attacks but more wounds. I was comparing meganobz to the typical unit of nobz which has big choppas and/or pks, maybe a few slugga & choppa dudes.

 Blackie wrote:

pismakron wrote:


Why do you think that MANZ are better than nobz? I have no experience with meganobz, but I would tend to agree that they are better than burnas, stompas, traktor kannons etc.

Because both units have the same purpose, to damage armored stuff and meganobz are simply better for that job. Compare 6 meganobz with killsaws and 10 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts:

Against T7 3+ save, meganobz deal an average of 16W, nobz only 10.

Against T8 2+ meganobz cause an average of 10W, nobz only 4.

Nobz also have free shootas but against armored targets they shouldn't cause any unsaved wounds, maybe one if you're lucky. A unit with mixed big choppas and pks can cause a little bit more damage but it becomes more expensive. Nobz are way better than meganobz in a footslogging list since ammo runts can absorb lots of anti tank but meganobz tank AP-nothing hits quite better and even against the anti tank they usually have a 4+ or 5+ anyway granted by the 2+ save. In a list without vehicles meganobz are basically useless since they're too vulnerable in the open and da jumping them usually doesn't worth the effort thanks to enemy screeners, but in armored lists they usually perform better than nobz, at least this is my experience with them. I only play meganobz with dual killsaws though.

So far I've played 4 meganobz and 12 boyz in a wagon, 5 and 10 boyz in a wagon and 6 in a wagon. I've also tried 2x5 nobz with big choppas and ammo runts in a wagon, 2x5(+5 runts) and 10 boyz in a wagon, 6+6 runts in a trukk and the 10+10 unit on foot. My experience is based on those combinations.

Interesting, I've played Meganobz and found them to be underwhelming. I didn't have dual KS on all of them and it was pre CA changes though to be fair.

How do 8 x Nobz with Power Klaws and ammo runts stack up against vehicles? They clock in around the same points as 10 with big choppas and runt or the Meganobz (272 pts to the Meganobz 288).

Thanks for the update!

Manz are not useless like those other units in red. Three meganobz with saws has been MVPs for me several times.

Their bad times: footslogging, facing cheap infantry screens

Their good times: trukking, da jumping in against unscreened and big targets like tanks or knigths, having durability in cover. Advancing and charging with warboss.

That does sound right.

So, how about this:
Green = Best stuff in the codex, tournament material
Cyan = will pull their weight when fielded, even if there are better option
Blue = does what it is supposed to do, but not much more
Yellow = situational or not actually good at its primary role
Red = worthless, these units are not be able to do their job regularly

Which would lead me to the following changes:
MANz => yellow
Kanz => blue
Lootaz => blue
Trukk => yellow
Battlewagon => yellow

Most people seem to be satisfied with the performance of their lootaz and kanz (even if they are by no means great units), but there is very little positive resonance for our transports - which matches my disappointment with battlewagons and trukks.

Also, if you want to have a good laugh, go read page 2 of this thread.

Well, if you specify it this way, i guess manz are indeed yellow. They're not like the worst unit ever. But they are just only ok in mech lists while transported or vs purely mellee opponents with monsters. And even then, nobz and boyz are probably plain better. The main problem with manz is that they're only around 25% more durable than boyz vs anti-infantry fire while 100-300% less durable vs anti-tank. And this makes them very ineffective while combined with the good stuff in the index.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, if you specify it this way, i guess manz are indeed yellow. They're not like the worst unit ever. But they are just only ok in mech lists while transported or vs purely mellee opponents with monsters. And even then, nobz and boyz are probably plain better. The main problem with manz is that they're only around 25% more durable than boyz vs anti-infantry fire while 100-300% less durable vs anti-tank. And this makes them very ineffective while combined with the good stuff in the index.

A Strength 4 hit will kill 2.5 points of boyz or 1.17 points of regular meganob. They are quite resistant to AP0.

But I don't know that a cheaper Trukk will make them more viable. I would be reluctant to put them in a transport without something to absorb the damage from the explosion when the transport blows up. Regular nobz is better that way because they can take ammo runts and vanilla nobz as sacrificial wounds

You can always put in some burnas when they become buffed

Let's calculate man'z durability vs bolter and heavy bolter compared to boyz.
Bolter kills 1.55 pts of 42 ppm manz or 1.78 pts of 48 ppm manz.
Bolter kills 3.33 pts of 6 ppm boyz.
Ratio varies from 0.465 to 0.535. So, manz are around 100% tougher vs bolter fire.

Heavy bolter kills 6.22 pts of 42 ppm manz or 7.11 pts of 48 ppm manz.
Heavy bolter kills 8 pts of 6 ppm boyz
Ratio varies from 0.778 to 0.889. So, manz are around 17% tougher vs heavy bolter fire.

The majority of serious ranged anti-infantry is ap-1. Asscannons, heavy bolters. That's the reason i made an emphasis on something between 17% and 100% but way closer to 17%. So, around 25%. Simply because there's no use firing bolters at meganobz when you can fire them at boyz, kommandoes or even bikers, trukks, planes or mek gunz when they get close.

Now let's see a plazma and lazcannon.
Overcharged plazma kills 20,74 pts of 42 ppm manz or 23.7 pts pf 48 ppm manz.
Overcharged plazma kills 6.67 pts of boyz.
Ratio varies from 3.11 to 3.55, so manz are around 233% less durable vs plazma.

Lazcannon kills 15.55 pts of 42 ppm manz or 17.78 pts of 48 ppm manz. However, if we count in the 1/3 chance of not killing a meganob in one go and a 1/36 chance of not killing a meganob in two goes, numbers translate to 9.93 pts of 42 ppm manz or 11.36 pts of 48 ppm manz. The math is sloppy with d6, however.
Lazcannon kills 3.33 pts of 6 ppm boyz.
Ratio varies from 2.98 to 3.41. So, around 220% less durable than boyz.

And we're going back to the problem of target saturation. Manz are too squishy vs dedicated anti-tank in a situation where they're the ones most likely to actually recieve dedicated anti-tank fire.

Kanz and lootas blue? How do you run them?

I consider them absoutely underwhelming, I'd rate them yellow but I wouldn't be outraged if they were red.

I'd really like to make them worthy, especially kanz since I usually field vehicles and they wouldn't be the only armored multiwounds unit in the list. I've only had bad results with them so far, they never got their points back in my games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:


And we're going back to the problem of target saturation. Manz are too squishy vs dedicated anti-tank in a situation where they're the ones most likely to actually recieve dedicated anti-tank fire.

In a list with vehicles they should get 0-1 turns of shooting. And nobz aren't much more resilient against shooting since they're worse against non ap or AP-1 shots (only 4+ and 2W) and ammo runts can soak one turn of anti tank usually. Meganobz should have a 4+ or 5+ anyway against many weapons, in fact they don't even need the KFF aura, while nobz usually want it. Of course if elites receive anti infantry firepower you should save some boyz but there are lists with an absurd amount of firepower that can afford focussing on footslogging nobz anyway. They just need to remove the gretchins and then using the anti tank on the nobz.

I'm not saying they're that good, but I don't see why nobz are rated way better than them, IMHO they're not, they just match better with our strongest built. I'd say nobz are 3/5 and meganobz 2/5 with this system but since I usually don't play footsloggers I'd rate them viceversa

 Blackie wrote:
Kanz and lootas blue? How do you run them?

I consider them absoutely underwhelming, I'd rate them yellow but I wouldn't be outraged if they were red.

I'd really like to make them worthy, especially kanz since I usually field vehicles and they wouldn't be the only armored multiwounds unit in the list. I've only had bad results with them so far, they never got their points back in my games.

I have run them in units of alongside other walkers, burna bommers and 0-2 battlewagons with nobz, sometimes with a KFF mek nearby to repair damaged kanz.
The are sufficiently hard to kill, they are dangerous to units without multi-damage weapons in combat, and more often than not get at least one rokkit through saves. I've also found them to be pretty reliable objective takers for forward objectives, as their footprint can prevent other units from coming within 3" and it takes some dedicated firepower to get them off it. Whenever I get one of the maelstrom objectives which requires me to keep the objective for two consecutive turns, they will be the ones getting it. Otherwise they sit on an objective somewhere in the middle of the board and shoot stuff from there. They might be worse if you're playing Eternal War and stuff like that doesn't matter. Most posts in this thread tend to be along the line of "not awesome. but ok".
So, they are in no way a great unit, but they are pretty reliable at what they are supposed to do - unlike the stuff in the yellow category, which either tends to do nothing of fall flat on its face without the opponent being involved.

Same logic for lootaz - they will die to a stiff breeze, but they blow a hole in certain types of units and will do this reliably.

The line between blue and yellow is not really clear. It's basically a list of all units that still kind of work, with a line drawn in the middle. Kanz and lootaz definitely both work better than BW and trukks, so I switched them.

In a list with vehicles they should get 0-1 turns of shooting. And nobz aren't much more resilient against shooting since they're worse against non ap or AP-1 shots (only 4+ and 2W) and ammo runts can soak one turn of anti tank usually. Meganobz should have a 4+ or 5+ anyway against many weapons, in fact they don't even need the KFF aura, while nobz usually want it. Of course if elites receive anti infantry firepower you should save some boyz but there are lists with an absurd amount of firepower that can afford focussing on footslogging nobz anyway. They just need to remove the gretchins and then using the anti tank on the nobz.

A couple of things wrong with this:
- Nobz can also add ablative wounds by adding choppa nobz. 3 PK and 4 choppa nobz are 21 wounds for 186, 4 MANz are 12 wounds for slightly more.
- When anti-infantry shooting is used to kill gretchin, you just take those shots on choppa nobz and save those with 4+ armor.
- Anti-infantry shooting usually has at least one more pressing target than nobz: The mob that was targeted by da jump last turn.
- Boyz are more dangerous than nobz for most armies, so they tend to get target priority over nobz - especially if they are closer to the enemy.
- 7 Nobz with ammo runts can take two quad lascannon predators buffed by Guilliman without losing a single nob, MANz will be wiped out by them. They are not very vulnerable to anti-tank at all.
- Same units shot at by assault cannon razorbacks and papa smurf take 6 razorbacks to kill the 4 MANz and about 4.4 to kill the nobz and their runts, so roughly a 36.36% increased chance to survive. For comparison: It takes 4.9 blue razorbacks to wipe out a unit of 30 boyz
- Nobz don't need a KFF, they have ammo runts to tank high damage shots. It helps, sure, but not more or less than on any other unit. I have fielded them successfully without, just walking up the field.

In reality some DA player who owns nothing but codex and half a dark imperium box will simply delete MANz with his hellblasters from 30" away by investing a single CP.

I'm not saying they're that good, but I don't see why nobz are rated way better than them, IMHO they're not, they just match better with our strongest built. I'd say nobz are 3/5 and meganobz 2/5 with this system but since I usually don't play footsloggers I'd rate them viceversa

Thing is, MANz don't work without transports, and transports are bad. If your opponent is low on anti-tank or doesn't prioritize them, they can get things done, but otherwise they won't. This is the very definition of situational, which makes them yellow.
Nobz work both footslogging and in transports, as foot sloggers they are only slightly less durable than boyz (~10%), and boyz are a great unit. Of the three flavors of nobz, regular nobz are the ones most likely to reach combat, without needing help from any other unit.