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Jidmah wrote:Flash gits are probably better passengers than nobz, as their gun is better than a kustom shoota and costs the same.

and being heavy weapons, they'd kinda tie in with the chinork's guns a little better too eh?

Jidmah wrote:I need to convert a nob that is using a base on a stick as big choppa. Nothing says I can't have more than one base.

that would be hilariously stupid, and brilliant!

 ZoBo wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Flash gits are probably better passengers than nobz, as their gun is better than a kustom shoota and costs the same.

and being heavy weapons, they'd kinda tie in with the chinork's guns a little better too eh?

Heavy weapons with BS4+ are very much the same as assault weapons with BS5+.
People need to get the "don't move heavy weapons" out of their head. Flash gits basically get +1 to BS when standing still, just like last edition.

 Jidmah wrote:
Maybe try cutting of the motor part with the rotor and attach what's left to the front of the speeder?

And yes, bombs are auto-take. They aren't that game-breaking anyways.

Flash gits are probably better passengers than nobz, as their gun is better than a kustom shoota and costs the same.

Well are they game breaking or not isn't point. It's just plain stupid game design to have stuff like "may take up to two bombs" and then have no reason to NOT take. either remove the may or give some reason to not auto take. I hate bad game design.

But good point about flash gits. I was thinking more of swoosh-in unit of nobz with h2h stuff somewhere for T2 assault but flash gits could indeed work as 3rd gunboat. I have 8 of them and would love to field them. Too bad about deep strike limitation. Can't often deep strike in range on T1 generally and that expensive unit doing nothing onT1 sucks. But T1 non-deep strike it can be shot out :(

 Jidmah wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Flash gits are probably better passengers than nobz, as their gun is better than a kustom shoota and costs the same.

and being heavy weapons, they'd kinda tie in with the chinork's guns a little better too eh?

Heavy weapons with BS4+ are very much the same as assault weapons with BS5+.
People need to get the "don't move heavy weapons" out of their head. Flash gits basically get +1 to BS when standing still, just like last edition.

oh I know that...I was just saying because the chinork's weapons are heavy, so if you want to shoot them, you'll probably not want to move...which would then benefit the flash gitz on board as they would still get their 4+ to hit

Which means the rattler version would be best one to carry flash gits. Dakka dakka dakka dakka. Quite a gunboat. 8 flash git(all I own) plus chinork with rattlers. Dakka dakka dakka dakka!

edit: One idea for potential list for these:

warboss(killchoppa, tenacious survivor)
warboss(power klaw)
weirdboy(either warpath or da jump depending on can da jump be used on T1)

4x30 boyz. klaws and big choppas(at least 2 big choppa)

10xburna
8xtank busta+2 bomb squiq
8xflash git
2xKMK

dakkajet(6 supa shoota)

chinork(skorcha)
chinork(big shoota)
chinork(rattler guns, big shoota)

Ork flying circus so to speak(too bad chinorks don't have the -1 to hit )

Chinork with skorcha gets burnas, burn stuff, maybe assasinate character if enemy is careless, drop bombs. Naked chinork gets tank bustas. Either deep strike next to vehicle or just start on board depending on enemy army. Flashgits on rattler guns.

now that Da jump has been effectively stomped on for 1st turn jumping and we're now limited to 3 weirdboyz in an army is it ever worth building a list with multiple weirdboyz now? My lists have all suffered from this and I have come to the conclusion that Dajump plus warpath is an expensive use of weirdboyz.

What are your thoughts?

Weirdboyz can do semi-consistent D6 MW smites now with the changes to beta rules

so you reckon running them within 30 strong squads for the +3 to cast?

Is it now not even worth selecting dajump as the power? Its surely not worth considering using Eadbanger now?

Depending on how your group plays Da Jump(seeing it's not clear either way) pretty marginal. Better than 'eadbanger now though. Can be used to grab objectives, clear room to charge maybe sometimes by pulling up unit from combat(this doesn't even count fall backing!) etc. If not just smite.

And yeah 30 boyz mobz and maybe between 2 such.

I find weirdboyz with foot sloggers are great for softening up targets so putting wounds on high toughness. I have a painboy handy to keep one on full health for the d6 smites.

Not sure what is replace them with, and warpath on a big squad of nobz is going to really help out.

I think I'll still run 3 but maybe go 2 warpath.

I honestly think shunt style abilities such as gate of infinity and da jump will get faq back since they are already limited to one unit a turn. I think the real issue was multiple reserve turn 1 alpha strikes.

I do think weirdboys will get nerfed when the codex comes out with a cap on thier ability to +2 or 3.

However da jump is currently still good for beta strikes or use on mega nobs. Eadbanger is useless on everything but Celestine which we won’t see as often. Warpath is nearly as good as before. And our smite is amazing right now. Reliable d6 mortal wounds is reason enough to bring multiple wierdboys. Most other factions would love to have this ability.

Praise Gork and Mork!

Da Jump is still a go on turn 1

See:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/755153.page#9937480

 ikeulhu wrote:
Praise Gork and Mork!

Da Jump is still a go on turn 1

See:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/755153.page#9937480

ah good! common sense prevails for once!...I'll just refer to my previous comments from page 170 and sit here looking smug then

Great news. My 30 shoota boyz are happy.

This is great news but someone needs to tell FLG because they seem to think GW told them otherwise.

Unfortunately the wording on the facebook question doesn't actually change anything. The questioner just asked if it was usable as per the new rules and the answer was yes. Unfortunately it is usable but still restricted by the rule.

Problem was gw sloppy writing. Had they deployed units put in reserve during deployment it would have been clear. Instead they wrote units arriving during turn 1 which da jump fullfilled clearly. Only thing suggesting it might not apply was that it was on tactical reserves part but then again actual rule wasn't related to it at all. Just arriving on turn 1 which da jump fit.

Hopefully they put it on somewhere outside fb as that's about as reliable place as "i heard". Anybody even have direct link? Screenshots are worthless as proof

 Nithaniel wrote:
This is great news but someone needs to tell FLG because they seem to think GW told them otherwise.

Unfortunately the wording on the facebook question doesn't actually change anything. The questioner just asked if it was usable as per the new rules and the answer was yes. Unfortunately it is usable but still restricted by the rule.

Yes, that question sucked.
I asked again much more clearly. What ever answer it is as long as it's clear, if they answer at all.

So kommandos were the only unit nerfed by this faq? Which I think is fine since we still benefit more from other armies being unable to mass reserve manipulation and I found kommandos better as turn 2 or 3 deepstrikers

0-3 also hurt and ruin immunity to h2h is army wide nerf to orks.

 Nithaniel wrote:
This is great news but someone needs to tell FLG because they seem to think GW told them otherwise.
Unfortunately the wording on the facebook question doesn't actually change anything. The questioner just asked if it was usable as per the new rules and the answer was yes. Unfortunately it is usable but still restricted by the rule.

Yeah, I mentioned that later in the original thread. The poor wording of both the question and the response leaves it still up in the air until we get a real official ruling that is worded properly, unfortunately.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Maybe try cutting of the motor part with the rotor and attach what's left to the front of the speeder?

And yes, bombs are auto-take. They aren't that game-breaking anyways.

Flash gits are probably better passengers than nobz, as their gun is better than a kustom shoota and costs the same.

Well are they game breaking or not isn't point. It's just plain stupid game design to have stuff like "may take up to two bombs" and then have no reason to NOT take. either remove the may or give some reason to not auto take. I hate bad game design.

But good point about flash gits. I was thinking more of swoosh-in unit of nobz with h2h stuff somewhere for T2 assault but flash gits could indeed work as 3rd gunboat. I have 8 of them and would love to field them. Too bad about deep strike limitation. Can't often deep strike in range on T1 generally and that expensive unit doing nothing onT1 sucks. But T1 non-deep strike it can be shot out :(

Make sure to add two gretchin as ammo runts for re-rolls and tanking transport deaths.

tneva82 wrote:
0-3 also hurt and ruin immunity to h2h is army wide nerf to orks.

Like I’ve said I’ve never played it or seen it played that way. I’ve always seen it played if you can’t get it in range you can’t assault it.
I’ve even seen it discussed on you make da call and it was raw that you can’t. I think it is a problem but it’s how it was raw since 8th release.
Like what were you guys doing if a vindicare assassin was on top of ruins and your unit of 30 orks charged him but only 1 model could fit but the rest were on the ground floor well out of range and unit coherency? Did you allow this? It’s mind boggling because I’ve never seen anyone play it that way.

0-3 is a small nerf to select builds That MSU a lot but orks are bad at MSU anyway. Our unit sizes tend to be massive number of models.

I haven't seen anybody to play you couldn't as immunity to assault is bad game design nor does it make sense so hurts suspension of disbelief. And 0-3 hurts with mkm's at least. You can't take more than 3 without putting close to each other and can't take brigade plus spearhead or 2 spearhead sensibly any more. And spearhead was our best detachment after battallion. Bat plus 2 spearhead was pretty good

tneva82 wrote:
0-3 also hurt and ruin immunity to h2h is army wide nerf to orks.

Choppa boyz are very easy to hook onto ruins with their axes to claim wobbly model and get within an inch of an enemy, so it's not as big of a deal.

tneva82 wrote:
I haven't seen anybody to play you couldn't as immunity to assault is bad game design nor does it make sense so hurts suspension of disbelief. And 0-3 hurts with mkm's at least. You can't take more than 3 without putting close to each other and can't take brigade plus spearhead or 2 spearhead sensibly any more. And spearhead was our best detachment after battallion. Bat plus 2 spearhead was pretty good

Please show me a single tournament since 8th release were a vindicare assassin or anything was on top of ruins and your unit of 30 orks charged him but only 1 model could fit but the rest were on the ground floor well out of range and unit coherency? Did you allow this? It’s mind boggling because I’ve never seen anyone play it that way. You always need to be in range and unit coherency. That’s basic 40k 101.

One of the main tournament winning list was renegade and heretic list or imperial guard all bunched onto a sky shield landing pad making it immune to assault because you couldn’t fit any other models on top..

gungo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
I haven't seen anybody to play you couldn't as immunity to assault is bad game design nor does it make sense so hurts suspension of disbelief. And 0-3 hurts with mkm's at least. You can't take more than 3 without putting close to each other and can't take brigade plus spearhead or 2 spearhead sensibly any more. And spearhead was our best detachment after battallion. Bat plus 2 spearhead was pretty good

Please show me a single tournament since 8th release were a vindicare assassin or anything was on top of ruins and your unit of 30 orks charged him but only 1 model could fit but the rest were on the ground floor well out of range and unit coherency? Did you allow this? It’s mind boggling because I’ve never seen anyone play it that way. You always need to be in range and unit coherency. That’s basic 40k rules 101.

The problem is, your'e definitely gonna see that behavior a lot more now in this dystopian post faq 8th edition v1.2 world

Again haven't anybody seen it played otherwise. You think i have pics of every game every event?

Immunity to h2h is bad game design both balance and sense. It makes no sense(oo there's enemy there we can reach but let's stay here) while hoses many armies

tneva82 wrote:
I haven't seen anybody to play you couldn't as immunity to assault is bad game design nor does it make sense so hurts suspension of disbelief. And 0-3 hurts with mkm's at least. You can't take more than 3 without putting close to each other and can't take brigade plus spearhead or 2 spearhead sensibly any more. And spearhead was our best detachment after battallion. Bat plus 2 spearhead was pretty good

What's an MKM?
If you mean KMK, then I can't agree. 1 data sheet is between 1 and 6 Mek guns + krew. So 3 could be up to 18 of them + Krews. Not very flexible sure. But does it really matter?


I need to read the rules for ruins. Something seems off to me.

Yes 18. You deploy 6 close to each other. You are also prevented from taking 2 spearheads so basically stuck with battalions plus maybe spearhead. Not gigantic nerf plus still nerf.

Bat plus 2 spearhead wasn't bad combo if you had 3-4 boyz mobs for example. No more

tneva82 wrote:
Yes 18. You deploy 6 close to each other. You are also prevented from taking 2 spearheads so basically stuck with battalions plus maybe spearhead. Not gigantic nerf plus still nerf.

Bat plus 2 spearhead wasn't bad combo if you had 3-4 boyz mobs for example. No more

I see. I have been thinking a little about this. All I have come up with is, if I were going to take that many KMK's I'd just take a few solo Kannons and Lobbas for their low points costs to fill out what ever need I had left. So 12 KMK's and a Lobba in one and 6 and 2 lobbas in the other. Meh too many points on KMK's lol.