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Try to start with:

Warboss with killchoppa
Weirdboy (Da Jump)

3x30 Boyz, nob with pk

Painboy with p.klaw

3 KMKs.

Which are 882 points if I've done the math right. If you cut one of the nobz pks and replace it with a big choppa you can stay within the 880 points budget. Unfortunately vehicles are really expensive for lists under 1000 points and quite hard to fit effectively.

ok, I gotta ask, because I'm just not really seeing the big appeal...what's so good about KMK's?

...I mean, yeah, it's 4+ hits...but...D6 shots? MW itself on 1's to hit?...ehhh :/

 ZoBo wrote:
ok, I gotta ask, because I'm just not really seeing the big appeal...what's so good about KMK's?

...I mean, yeah, it's 4+ hits...but...D6 shots? MW itself on 1's to hit?...ehhh :/

Cheap, durable plasma cannon, most cost effective ranged unit in the index, 6w t5, cheap objective camper, high str/ap, multi-damage

Did I mention you can take 4 for less than a boyz mob? Then have the gunners roam off to hold objectives while the guns keep firing away? Also repairable if you’re into that

 ZoBo wrote:
ok, I gotta ask, because I'm just not really seeing the big appeal...what's so good about KMK's?

...I mean, yeah, it's 4+ hits...but...D6 shots? MW itself on 1's to hit?...ehhh :/

You get decent to hit, good strength, good AP, ok damage and good range on a relatively durable platform for cheap. They do roughly twice as much damage as lootas and are way more durable than them.
That's all there really is to it, in other codices the KMK wouldn't stand out as much. For example, imperial basilisks are pretty much the same damage per points, but twice the range.

The mortal wound really doesn't matter a lot unless facing -1 to hit since the one or two MW you get per game rarely kill the KMK.

 r_squared wrote:
I'm having real trouble with my list at the moment, unfortunately I'm up against lists that can reliably delete upto 30 boys a turn in shooting. My last couple of games have gone really hard, particularly against a strong tau gun line and dark angel bikes and fliers. We use plenty of LoS blocking terrain, but their manoeuvrability and firepower just tears the heart out my army consistently often before we've even begun. It's disheartening. We have a bump up in points of 260 in May, but tbh I'm not sure where to go at the minute.

Discussing it with one of my regular opponents, I'm thinking of trialling truck rush as an alternative supported by kff big mek on bike. Chucking stormboyz in just feels like a waste of points.

At the moment we're limited to 880 points, but will add another 260 in May. I'm currently on;

880pts
Battalion +5cp

Warboss HWKC
Weird boy da jump

25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
9 slugga choppa, Nob BC

Dakkajet 6x supa shootas

Spearhead +1cp
Big Mek KFF

Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK

Thinking of adjusting numbers of Boyz, adding a battle wagon, min unit of kommandos with burnas and 3 more KMKs, but I'm not sure how effective that will be TBH.
We were doing OK, but being practically wiped off the board for very little damage inflicted and no objectives achieved in the last 2 games has taken the wind out of my sails and am trying to critically re-evaluate where to go from here.

Sounds like they have adjusted their lists to deal with your hoards. Try really shaking up your list for a few games to throw them off.
Maybe try:
Killa Kans
Lobbas just to mess with the tau markerlights
All scorcha Nobs (5 man) in a truckk, expensive but just fun to wipe out a whole unit of tau in the shooting phase
An extra warboss with BC to jump lone into the backfield just to make your opponent say WTF?

In other words play crazy and unpredictable for a few games so they can't tailor the list against you.

@Hamstring Pulla & Jidmah
hmm...ok, fair enough...I might have to do a couple of games with some proxies to try them out I think...some decent ranged damage could be quite handy I guess...

 ZoBo wrote:
ok, I gotta ask, because I'm just not really seeing the big appeal...what's so good about KMK's?

...I mean, yeah, it's 4+ hits...but...D6 shots? MW itself on 1's to hit?...ehhh :/

Compare to a Plasma Cannon devastator (34 points). 3+ to hit, D3 shots, 1 damage, S7. If overcharged, there is a 16.7% chance of instantly removing the firing model, in exchange for damage 2 and S8. Behind a 3+ T4 and 1 wound.

D6 shots averages 3.5 shots. D3 averages 2.

KMK volume of fire, durability and damage output is a superb value, and is the only shooting unit in the ork index that reliably compares to the shooting output of codex armies. As much as a mortal wound on a 6 wound model sucks, compare that to overcharging a plasma gun.
Whatever model fired the shot is instantly removed from play on a 1 to hit.

 TedNugent wrote:

Am I basically stuck with storm boyz for this role? Deff Koptas seem like they're around 15-20 points overcosted, but at least a lone kopta seems like it might be able to deal with the new 2nd floor ruins ruling and tie up a 2nd floor heavy weapons unit.

You still need to keep the model standing within 1" of the enemy. Koptas are worse at it cause they have bases that are further away from the hull, so if you glitch the model at the edge of the ruin - cause that's how you play around this rule - the base will still be further than 1" away, so you won't reach combat. Regular boyz are easy to glitch cause they have hooky bits like choppas and when you hook them up to the second level of the ruin and place the base a bit diagonally, it gets within 1" of the enemy's base. However, boyz have problems actually reaching there because they aren't too fast. Stormboyz are fast and not that large, besedis, some of them can be hooked with leg and jumppack parts making getting within 1" even easier. Besides, they have smaller bases than koptas and can be easier placed on the level of the ruin itself when enemies get thinned out or don't occupy all space.

Ignore the DeffKoptas, I LOVE THEM! I have like 12 but they are trash right now. They are about 30-40pts over priced for what little they do, they HAVE to be taken in 1-2 model squads because of their abysmal leadership and there damage output is minuscule to say the least.

KMK is our version of a Plasma Cannon. Its pretty good, it isn't good enough though to make us a gunline army, but I have never once taken them and thought "Damn I wish I hadn't taken those".

Last tourny I went to I had 5 of them and they just kept plopping pot shots into Heavy infantry or vehicles and the look on my opponents faces when they realized Ork shooting had just killed something was spectacular. They will probably not be an allstar unit for you but they are worth taking if for no other reason then being really good at holding objectives and stopping linebreaker.

To add to the KMK discussion, I've been running a Mek Boy with Grot Oiler to assist with keeping my Mek Gunz up. The mortal wounds that are self inflicted by the Mek Gunz aren't enough to validate the Mek Boy but I find myself relying on him a lot when the opponent decides to target the Mek Gunz.
Considering I run 4 KMK's, I've effectively added 6-7 points to the cost of each of them just to add a bit of durability. I think it's definitely worth it given the frustrated responses from opponents.

Shrapnelbait wrote:

Spoiler:

 r_squared wrote:
I'm having real trouble with my list at the moment, unfortunately I'm up against lists that can rreliably delete upto 30 boys a turn in shooting. My last couple of games have gone really hard, particularly against a strong tau gun line and dark angel bikes and fliers. We use plenty of LoS blocking terrain, but their manoeuvrability and firepower just tears the heart out my army consistently often before we've even begun. It's disheartening. We have a bump up in points of 260 in May, but tbh I'm not sure where to go at the minute.

Discussing it with one of my regular opponents, I'm thinking of trialling truck rush as an alternative supported by kff big mek on bike. Chucking stormboyz in just feels like a waste of points.

At the moment we're limited to 880 points, but will add another 260 in May. I'm currently on;

880pts
Battalion +5cp

Warboss HWKC
Weird boy da jump

25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
9 slugga choppa, Nob BC

Dakkajet 6x supa shootas

Spearhead +1cp
Big Mek KFF

Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK

Thinking of adjusting numbers of Boyz, adding a battle wagon, min unit of kommandos with burnas and 3 more KMKs, but I'm not sure how effective that will be TBH.
We were doing OK, but being practically wiped off the board for very little damage inflicted and no objectives achieved in the last 2 games has taken the wind out of my sails and am trying to critically re-evaluate where to go from here.

Sounds like they have adjusted their lists to deal with your hoards. Try really shaking up your list for a few games to throw them off.
Maybe try:
Killa Kans
Lobbas just to mess with the tau markerlights
All scorcha Nobs (5 man) in a truckk, expensive but just fun to wipe out a whole unit of tau in the shooting phase
An extra warboss with BC to jump lone into the backfield just to make your opponent say WTF?

In other words play crazy and unpredictable for a few games so they can't tailor the list against you.

Well my regular Tau opponent has definitely taken hordes into consideration with every expansion, but the Dark Angels player regularly trounces everyone with his bike and speeder focused army. His firepower and re-rolls are just pure filth and he rolls around the board in a near unstoppable buff bubble.

The campaign means we can only build on what we've already taken, and each month we increase by 280 points. So basically I'm stuck with what I have and can only add to it. Because the other guys know I'm struggling, they're cool with me adjusting my boyz mobs down in number to squeeze them into battle wagons if I need to, but that's about it for flexibility.

I had considered lobbas, their range and ability to hit out of sight targets combined with str5 is useful, but I've rolled it out and it just doesn't seem to put out enough damage, even taking 3 units. I may give them a go though. My last game I ended up wasting KMK shots into small groups of drones and firewarriors, which felt pretty gakky.

 r_squared wrote:

Shrapnelbait wrote:

Spoiler:

 r_squared wrote:
I'm having real trouble with my list at the moment, unfortunately I'm up against lists that can rreliably delete upto 30 boys a turn in shooting. My last couple of games have gone really hard, particularly against a strong tau gun line and dark angel bikes and fliers. We use plenty of LoS blocking terrain, but their manoeuvrability and firepower just tears the heart out my army consistently often before we've even begun. It's disheartening. We have a bump up in points of 260 in May, but tbh I'm not sure where to go at the minute.

Discussing it with one of my regular opponents, I'm thinking of trialling truck rush as an alternative supported by kff big mek on bike. Chucking stormboyz in just feels like a waste of points.

At the moment we're limited to 880 points, but will add another 260 in May. I'm currently on;

880pts
Battalion +5cp

Warboss HWKC
Weird boy da jump

25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
25 slugga choppa, Nob BC
9 slugga choppa, Nob BC

Dakkajet 6x supa shootas

Spearhead +1cp
Big Mek KFF

Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK

Thinking of adjusting numbers of Boyz, adding a battle wagon, min unit of kommandos with burnas and 3 more KMKs, but I'm not sure how effective that will be TBH.
We were doing OK, but being practically wiped off the board for very little damage inflicted and no objectives achieved in the last 2 games has taken the wind out of my sails and am trying to critically re-evaluate where to go from here.

Sounds like they have adjusted their lists to deal with your hoards. Try really shaking up your list for a few games to throw them off.
Maybe try:
Killa Kans
Lobbas just to mess with the tau markerlights
All scorcha Nobs (5 man) in a truckk, expensive but just fun to wipe out a whole unit of tau in the shooting phase
An extra warboss with BC to jump lone into the backfield just to make your opponent say WTF?

In other words play crazy and unpredictable for a few games so they can't tailor the list against you.

Well my regular Tau opponent has definitely taken hordes into consideration with every expansion, but the Dark Angels player regularly trounces everyone with his bike and speeder focused army. His firepower and re-rolls are just pure filth and he rolls around the board in a near unstoppable buff bubble.

The campaign means we can only build on what we've already taken, and each month we increase by 280 points. So basically I'm stuck with what I have and can only add to it. Because the other guys know I'm struggling, they're cool with me adjusting my boyz mobs down in number to squeeze them into battle wagons if I need to, but that's about it for flexibility.

I had considered lobbas, their range and ability to hit out of sight targets combined with str5 is useful, but I've rolled it out and it just doesn't seem to put out enough damage, even taking 3 units. I may give them a go though. My last game I ended up wasting KMK shots into small groups of drones and firewarriors, which felt pretty gakky.

The Dark Angels player is trouble. The dual speeder char combo is indeed pretty filthy. Sammael gives 100% rerolls to hit to ravenwing and the talonmaster gives rerolls of 1 to wound, each within 6" on a 14" movement speed fly platform.

Both of them have a TL Heavy Bolter and a TL Assault Cannon, for 18 shots apiece in the range of roughly 200 PPM. Considering their buffs, their durability and versatility, speed, and close combat abilities, with 5 and 4 close combat attacks respectively (or 5 and 5 if you take a free relic power sword with the usual D3 damage), there's a reason they showed up in nearly all tournament lists.

Black Knights are going to be basically meh against ork boyz, though. If he takes Ravenwing bikers, their TL Boltguns plus 2 specials per unit would be extremely unfriendly to hordes.

So it would depend on how anti-horde the Tau player is.

KMKs are simply the best shooting unit in the ork index. They're simply the best, most durable static platform for shooting available for orks.

But honestly the biggest problem with your list is - 59 ork boyz? No wonder you're getting shot off the board. Why not use a paltry 186 of your 280 points to bump those three units up to 30 man mobs. Then, add a second ten man mob for 73 points with a klaw. Turn one, mob them up with a 30 man squad and jump the resulting 40 man squad with two nobs with nasty chopping implements and +1 attack from greentide somewhere where your enemy doesn't want them. That's 259 points and gives you 42 more wounds for each of your boyz squads, plus an additional power klaw and green tide+ mob rule for each squad. Keep the other two units within KFF and warboss range.

You know, I'd love for someone to do some "Money/Point" calculations. 'cause people say "Why not add an extra 40 Boyz", assuming that everyone can afford an extra 40 boyz. I know when I started collecting/playing Orks, I took the most points-expensive units I could, just because that was the cheapest way to start building an army I could actually play with.

Anvildude wrote:
You know, I'd love for someone to do some "Money/Point" calculations. 'cause people say "Why not add an extra 40 Boyz", assuming that everyone can afford an extra 40 boyz. I know when I started collecting/playing Orks, I took the most points-expensive units I could, just because that was the cheapest way to start building an army I could actually play with.

The giant piles of orks are beginning to dry up, but there are generally dozens of auctions ongoing on Ebay for 10 slugga boys.

They run substantially cheaper when bought in bulk than I think anything else that is even remotely competitive with an official model on a points per dollar spent basis.

For one thing, the two suggestions that were brought up by the gentleman I was responding to was battlewagons and KMKs, both of which are going to run massive tallies by GW retail prices, unless the KMKs can be played outside of GW stores with unofficial models.

Either way, 59 ork boyz is not sufficient. I thought the consensus was at least 90. I'm not saying that to be flippant about someone's cash.

Anvildude wrote:
You know, I'd love for someone to do some "Money/Point" calculations. 'cause people say "Why not add an extra 40 Boyz", assuming that everyone can afford an extra 40 boyz. I know when I started collecting/playing Orks, I took the most points-expensive units I could, just because that was the cheapest way to start building an army I could actually play with.

Conversely I've found boyz the easiest unit to add to my collection, outside of the start collecting box I haven't bought any boyz from GW. I think I've managed to get 100 boyz purely through second hand lots and deals. They've all been a fraction of the retail price too, some were even still on their sprue. My suggestion would be to use craigslist/gumtree, ebay, and find a buy swap sell on facebook. A lot of people dig up old armies from when they were younger and are just looking to sell them off to someone who will actually use them.

 Quackzo wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
You know, I'd love for someone to do some "Money/Point" calculations. 'cause people say "Why not add an extra 40 Boyz", assuming that everyone can afford an extra 40 boyz. I know when I started collecting/playing Orks, I took the most points-expensive units I could, just because that was the cheapest way to start building an army I could actually play with.

Conversely I've found boyz the easiest unit to add to my collection, outside of the start collecting box I haven't bought any boyz from GW. I think I've managed to get 100 boyz purely through second hand lots and deals. They've all been a fraction of the retail price too, some were even still on their sprue. My suggestion would be to use craigslist/gumtree, ebay, and find a buy swap sell on facebook. A lot of people dig up old armies from when they were younger and are just looking to sell them off to someone who will actually use them.

yup, ebay is how you build an ork army I think I've got over 300 boyz now, and I only bought 1 actual boyz kit from GW, and I guess another boyz kit via the shadow war armageddon box...and I guess at a stretch, a boyz kit was included with the gargantuan squiggoth...aside from that though, all my boyz have come from ebay...about 1/3 pre-painted that need stripping, and 2/3 on-sprue/assembled/primed...and I'd say they've cost me maybe a quarter the price of buying them all from GW

buying the ideal 120 boyz from GW is kinda ludicrous, at least at australian prices anyway...AU$576...for 4 troop squads, or 772 points(with power klaws...720 without)

 Jidmah wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
ok, I gotta ask, because I'm just not really seeing the big appeal...what's so good about KMK's?

...I mean, yeah, it's 4+ hits...but...D6 shots? MW itself on 1's to hit?...ehhh :/

You get decent to hit, good strength, good AP, ok damage and good range on a relatively durable platform for cheap. They do roughly twice as much damage as lootas and are way more durable than them.
That's all there really is to it, in other codices the KMK wouldn't stand out as much. For example, imperial basilisks are pretty much the same damage per points, but twice the range.

The mortal wound really doesn't matter a lot unless facing -1 to hit since the one or two MW you get per game rarely kill the KMK.

Can we all just recognise how good KMK really are? Not just in the ork codex. So, you're comparing the KMK to one of the best (if not the best) artillery unit here, and KMK comes in even. Not to mention 10 immortal grots at the cost of LOS shooting.

If KMK were not 60 AUD each, people would be complaining about them. I have been playing them for almost a year now, and every tournament I go to I bring more. I'm up to 12 now and the correct number to bring is probably 18.

To be fair the kmk is great however orks lack the reroll 1s to hit, reroll damage dice or whatever shooting buffs other armies get. That’s not a knock on kmk but orks lack of a codex. Kmk will only get better.

 hollow one wrote:
Can we all just recognise how good KMK really are? Not just in the ork codex. So, you're comparing the KMK to one of the best (if not the best) artillery unit here, and KMK comes in even. Not to mention 10 immortal grots at the cost of LOS shooting.

Their range and no LOS is part if why basilisks are so good though - they will always be able to shoot whatever they want without moving. With KMK you will find yourself out of range or out of sight quite often.

If KMK were not 60 AUD each, people would be complaining about them. I have been playing them for almost a year now, and every tournament I go to I bring more. I'm up to 12 now and the correct number to bring is probably 18.

Probably, if kanz, lootas and koptaz were less crap, they decision would be a lot less obvious though. I don't think KMK are an OP unit, but rather an example of how all our shooting units should be.

Anvildude wrote:
You know, I'd love for someone to do some "Money/Point" calculations. 'cause people say "Why not add an extra 40 Boyz", assuming that everyone can afford an extra 40 boyz. I know when I started collecting/playing Orks, I took the most points-expensive units I could, just because that was the cheapest way to start building an army I could actually play with.

This

Boyz are one of the cheapest ways to build army so...tons of those on ebay etc

Some people want to build and paint their models themselves.

Painting isn't issue

tneva82 wrote:
Painting isn't issue

It can be. I've got 96 blood axe boyz, all in camo. I've resisted buying more, mostly for the fear of having to paint more of them. Also, If our codex changes our army, what would I do with 200 boyz if they become crap?

Waiting till June.

tneva82 wrote:
Painting isn't issue

That's why I said build and paint.

There's a lot of talk of boyz on here, but I'm currently building a dread mob army. Thus far, I have the following:

1 Big Mek with KFF
1 Nob with Waaagh Banner
12 Killa Kans
1 Meka Dread which I converted from a Dreadknight

I also have Kaptin Badrukk and 10 Flash Gitz, but I mostly bought them for fun.

What else would you recommend I add within the bounds of a Mek/dread mob army?

tneva82 wrote:
Painting isn't issue

I agree, people want everything immediately. I started collecting orks in late 90s, haven't added anything to my collection since years and still got a lot of stuff to paint. I'm ok with that.

Painting 200 orks is not an issue if you like the miniatures and painting them. Painting 200 orks within a year certainly is.

It also a matter of priorities, I'd rather invest 300+ euro in GW stuff if I get a very good deal and paint every model in 10+ years than buying 1-2 boxes with no (or little) discount and have those miniatures painted quickly.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Painting isn't issue

That's why I said build and paint.

Well i don't know anybody who wants to pay more just for routine assembly and as such take crappy army to field.

Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

WalrusTaco wrote:
There's a lot of talk of boyz on here, but I'm currently building a dread mob army. Thus far, I have the following:

1 Big Mek with KFF
1 Nob with Waaagh Banner
12 Killa Kans
1 Meka Dread which I converted from a Dreadknight

I also have Kaptin Badrukk and 10 Flash Gitz, but I mostly bought them for fun.

What else would you recommend I add within the bounds of a Mek/dread mob army?

The gorkanaut is pretty good within the confines of a dreadmob list. Outside of one it is considered somewhat mediocre, but that's often because you are just throwing a big armored target in with a horde and activating all your enemy's anti-tank. With other armor in the list it's quite nasty- 18 str8 -2 ap 2 damage attacks at WS 3+ (2+ with the banner nob!) is no joke; statistically it almost always outperforms the 6 str 16 attacks unless dealing with a LoW without invuls. Good at smashing armor and hordes, and being able to fall back and shoot/charge makes it impossible to tarpit. With a bigmek repairing it, it takes a lot of concentrated firepower to remove. I plan on making a mekadread myself with the supa charge or whatever it's called to threaten t1 charges and draw fire off of my gorka (coincidentally, I'm converting mine from a dreadknight too, with plans to make it WYSIWYG as a morkanaut as well- I'd love to see some pics of your conversion if you have any!)

Deffdreads are really, really bad apart from just saturating the field with more high toughness value targets. I only use them because I own the models. Killa kanz play more like heavy infantry in this regard so don't help to much to over saturate with armor if your opponent is good at target prioritization, but I find typically their appearance and high wound value confuses opponents who end up splitting lascannons and the like between kanz and 'nauts when they ought to be putting heavy bolters/multilasers/assault cannons into the kanz and saving the lascannons for the nauts.

It's for the above reason that I actually like to still run a fair number of boyz with my dreadmobs, especially if running kanz. Anti-infantry weapons like shooting kanz just fine really, and without boyz you make your opponent's target selection pretty simple. I run 90 boyz with my dreadmob so that the anti-infantry still needs to prioritize them and the anti-tank has to be split amongst my kanz and bigger stompers. It also lends you the board control you need that dreads don't really provide. Kanz are shooty enough that they don't mind sitting on objectives, but all our dreads are slow (apart from mekadread with supa charge on t1) and aren't very durable, so we have trouble claiming objectives with them and holding when we do. Boyz blob around and can be jumped. Unfortunately, dreadmob is pretty bad so the more green tide you incorporate into the list the better you are gunna do, sadly. I'm looking to add 30 stormboyz to my mob to give it more t1 pressure and body count. Perhaps a dreadmob would do better taking just stormboyz instead of any slugga/shootas to focus on providing fast pressure and flying over screens to engage and deactivate anti-tank. I'd like to try it but I currently don't have enough stormboyz to do the experiment any justice.

Also, the more i play with it, the more I feel the transport capacity for the orkanauts are a trap. I can only see putting burna boyz, nobz, or meganobz in them due to limited size. Burna boyz are really bad, so no point in that, and regular nobz really need ammo runtz to give them the wound allocation gimmick to make them worth taking, so that makes the transport capacity too small to be worth it. I'm playing around more with 3 meganobz with dual killsawz though. Gorka helps with their speed issue and their profile wants to be shot at by the same guns that want to shoot at your various stompers so they don't suffer from the same anti-tank activation problem they do in a green tide. In addition, They synergize well with another buffing unit I feel is only worth taking in a dreadmob list: The banner nob. Good on you for having one of these. Typically, this guy is just very expensive and just helps boyz overkill things more but in a worse way than warpath does, and he's another stupid bubble to keep your big blobs within. Dread variants don't really benefit from warpath due to small unit size, but their small number of high-value attacks get a lot of benefit out of the increased accuracy they get from a banner nob. It's easier to keep them close to him, and he really helps cover the weakness of killa kanz in melee and makes sure they get real utility out of their kan klaws and the Scrag 'em! rule. Killsaw meganobz normally suffer from WS 4+ but the banner nob fixes this. I am still experimenting with these guys and seeing if they really help out or just make the gorkanaut a bigger target.

I'm playing around with an "Elite" ork army idea with Gorka+Morkanaut (or maybe just two gorkanauts; they are so much better honestly) both filled with dual killsaw meganobz as the core of the list. When I finally get the models put together I'll report back and let folks know how a reverse green tide works (attempting to over saturate enemy anti-tank rather than anti-infantry). I doubt I'll find some hidden secret power list as I feel almost any other faction can do the "way too much heavy armor" thing much better than orks can, but it could be worth it to thwart list-tailoring players... Tell your opponent you are bringing orks so he fills up on flamers and assault cannons and then show up with this instead! Keep your opponents honest when list building against you and maybe make your games as green tide easier once they no longer feel comfortable dropping all the anti-tank from their lists when planning to play against you! And who knows, if it's half-decent enough in it's own right, that may be enough for me to get a healthy break from moving so much infantry around without resigning myself to getting wiped off the table even in casual matches. The freedom to not always have to lug around 200+ models to play a game might make this list worth it regardless of its comparative effectiveness.