Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

On the subject of KMK's, I am now taking 10 of them since I believe they are the best shooting unit that we have access to.

I have been trying to find the second best shooting unit; which I now think is Dakkajets. I am steeling a tactic from a Space Marine player; in which I strafe my back field for the first turn, only moving forward enough get range on a unit. I see allot of players throw their fliers in my face turn 1, and wonder why they immediately die.

Since Chinorks are now open topped, has anyone used the effectively yet. I am not sure what to put in them.

My first thought is tankbustaz, but I have become disillusioned with them. Units with fly negate bomb squigs, and occasionally there are armies with no vehicles, which means tankbustaz become dead weight. My second thought is burnaz but I worry their damage output is not high enough to justify their cost. Thoughts?

 TedNugent wrote:
...But honestly the biggest problem with your list is - 59 ork boyz? No wonder you're getting shot off the board. Why not use a paltry 186 of your 280 points to bump those three units up to 30 man mobs. Then, add a second ten man mob for 73 points with a klaw. Turn one, mob them up with a 30 man squad and jump the resulting 40 man squad with two nobs with nasty chopping implements and +1 attack from greentide somewhere where your enemy doesn't want them. That's 259 points and gives you 42 more wounds for each of your boyz squads, plus an additional power klaw and green tide+ mob rule for each squad. Keep the other two units within KFF and warboss range.

I used to run green tide in 7th so have over 100 choppa sluggas and 60 shoota Boyz painted and based. I used to mob up the 10 Boyz with one of the 25 and da jump them in, but no matter where I go, they tend to get blown off the table. The Tau player can often use his montka ability to advance his entire army out of position and open up with all weapons including heavy. One unit of 10 firewarriors with the right buffs and at 18/21" (half a buffed out 36"/ 42" rapid fire range) puts out enough firepower to rip apart 35 Boyz with no trouble, 3 shots each, hitting on 3s,wounding on 3s and with only a 6 up save means that anything that's left standing after the gun drones have had their turn disappears to morale. I'm not joking, it's brutal.

It's tempting to run a list like this;

1160pts
Battalion +5cp

Warboss HWKC
Weird boy da jump

29 slugga choppa, Nob BC
29 slugga choppa, Nob BC
29 shoota, Nob BC

Dakkajet 6x supa shootas

Spearhead +1cp
Big Mek KFF

Mek gun KMK, Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK, Mek gun KMK
Mek gun KMK, Mek gun KMK

Tons of great shooting (for orks) and tons of bodies, but I'm still going to lose a mob a turn most likely. However, i'm not sure doubling down on big, easily targetable mobz will change the outcome much. It feels like I'm doing the exact same thing, but expecting a different result, the definition of insanity.

30 shots if -1ap will kill 14 or so. 20 guy left, immune to morale. 10 guys like that in average will thus not kill squad

tneva82 wrote:
30 shots if -1ap will kill 14 or so. 20 guy left, immune to morale. 10 guys like that in average will thus not kill squad

I don't know the names of the Tau stratagems but fire warriors can easily be buffed- add in gun drones and it's really not hard for firewarriors to remove 20+ orks in one go. Suddenly you're testing moral at -20 or worse; especially problematic for a jumped squad that can't borrow the Ld of a nearby mob. Tau mobility is really dangerous and I think stormboy-heavy lists are necessary to bring our strengths to bear quickly enough and consistently enough; even footsloggers that weather the storm against Tau and find something to charge often find that the rest of their army has gone elsewhere, and then don't have the ability to chase them down before being whittled to nothing.

r-squared, how has your dakkajet been serving you in these matchups? Another one might be a good idea. They have the mobility and range to stay in the fight against mobile Tau or Dark Angels, are harder to shoot at, and really tear fire warriors up. They kill about 5 on average and that should be enough to force a threatening moral test.

Well i made calculation with numbers given . Don't know strategems so no idea where they more than 50% firepower needed for 10 firewarriors with 3 shots they get. Those already are buffed if they hit on 3+

3 shots a model with no AP value, hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's is:

.67*.67*.83*3*10 = 11.18

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

Huh, Battlewagons with storm boyz inside. Interesting. Also no KMK.

Guys I'm not disputing the math, but I did mention that there wasnt just one squad of firewarriors, there were also gun drones and all sorts and my boy blob was initially well hidden and out of Los for nearly the lot until the Tau advanced into range and opened up. I lost 20+ boys in one round of shooting, and that was on his weakest flank. Morale then took its toll. I think when the smoke cleared that I had lost 27 Boyz. I had a second mob of 25 Boyz following, but rolled a 4 for morale after a command point re-roll. The last 2 nobz mobbed up with the follow up mob, we retreated and licked our wounds. I was trying to outflank and hit his weakest flank as hard and fast as possible. I figured I'd lose maybe 15 Boyz, possibly some more, but still have enough to charge home and consolidate through his right flank, but the buffs really hit hard. He was also re-rolling hits in there too, it was pretty grim.

The problem with this list is that once the ranged shooting is gone, I'm left with pretty slow, large mobs that are hard to effectively hide and die fast. I've won games, but there's more luck involved than I'd like. Every deployment has to be fully considered, every movement planned, measured and double checked, if you slip up you're toast and there just not the flexibility to get back in the game sometimes. Playing orks at the moment is definitely playing on hard mode. I envy our opponents ability to just shuffle a bit to get LOS and then open up and inflict devastating volleys. Combat seems double hard to achieve at the moment. I've played games using storm Boyz and kommandos to help outflank and saturate with threats, but the killyness of the gun lines just stops most assaults dead.

There is so much more involved in playing an assault based army with medium levels of fire support, it also doesn't help that we're index only and everyone I'm up against has a codex, and so many strategems that help them. Unfortunately I'm committed to the campaign, but at this rate, there won't be any orks left before the codex drops.

@Mantube
The dakka jet is a solid platform, but, like the KMK, it's a hard target priority for all my opponents now. A couple of games and they've learned it's effectiveness, and to also stay out of the way when she blows. Is she makes it to turn 2 it's a bonus tbh. I fly her at the extreme of her range, select pathfinders and marker light drones where I can, or if they leave one of their buff characters out of position I may sacrifice it to take it out if I can. She's fun to play, and dakka dakka helps too. The problem is that she's squishy. A second one would help, but I'd have to reduce mob size, and lose 3 kmks to pay for her (I'd also have to buy another model).



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

Huh, Battlewagons with storm boyz inside. Interesting. Also no KMK.

That is interesting. I've tried a couple of BW like that in casual games and they are effective, and tough for an opponent to deal with especially with kff protection. They're just such a lot of points.

It's an interesting army composition though, flexible and mobile. It's definitely food for thought.

 Jidmah wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

Huh, Battlewagons with storm boyz inside. Interesting. Also no KMK.

Jidmah, can I ask how you figured the BWs had storm boyz inside?

Jump pack models take up 2 slots, and the two biggest Storm boy units have 18 and 19 boyz respectively. He would only be able to fit the 5 man unit of stormboyz inside the wagon.

Conversely, I can't understand what he's doing with all those 10 man units of ork boyz.

 r_squared wrote:


@Mantube
The dakka jet is a solid platform, but, like the KMK, it's a hard target priority for all my opponents now. A couple of games and they've learned it's effectiveness, and to also stay out of the way when she blows. Is she makes it to turn 2 it's a bonus tbh. I fly her at the extreme of her range, select pathfinders and marker light drones where I can, or if they leave one of their buff characters out of position I may sacrifice it to take it out if I can. She's fun to play, and dakka dakka helps too. The problem is that she's squishy. A second one would help, but I'd have to reduce mob size, and lose 3 kmks to pay for her (I'd also have to buy another model).

Your last posted list looks good and puts you up to recommended boyz count as well as filling in more of our best shooting option. I'd run with it as it seems like it's the "fully realized" version of your first list, which looked somewhat constrained. Play it out and see how it goes, perhaps in the next point expansion add the second dakkajet. Redundancy is always going to help with survivability and overall effectiveness. Also, perhaps posting the lists of your opponents that are giving you the most trouble would help us give better advice on how to grow to defeat them. Are the point expansions always going to be 280 points?

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

Huh, Battlewagons with storm boyz inside. Interesting. Also no KMK.

Jidmah, can I ask how you figured the BWs had storm boyz inside?

Jump pack models take up 2 slots, and the two biggest Storm boy units have 18 and 19 boyz respectively. He would only be able to fit the 5 man unit of stormboyz inside the wagon.

Conversely, I can't understand what he's doing with all those 10 man units of ork boyz.

Small boyz units might be for mob up/chaff purpose. Been thinking of those myself. Screens essential, these work for that and mob up allows some extra shenigans

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share list that finished second

https://diceshot.com/2018/04/23/orks-r-kiltons-list/

Huh, Battlewagons with storm boyz inside. Interesting. Also no KMK.

Jidmah, can I ask how you figured the BWs had storm boyz inside?

Jump pack models take up 2 slots, and the two biggest Storm boy units have 18 and 19 boyz respectively. He would only be able to fit the 5 man unit of stormboyz inside the wagon.

Conversely, I can't understand what he's doing with all those 10 man units of ork boyz.

Oh, you're right - I just looked at the numbers for storm boyz and they matched with the character count to become 2x20. Then that list makes even less sense. Is this an ITC tournament? Maybe he was gaming their objective system?

maybe he was trying to confuse his opponents?...the list seems to be quite good to that effect! ...I have no idea what to make of it, or what his plan would've been...

The 2nd place list isn't that strange actually, it's a green tide with the tipycal units with a couple of wagons in addition. I think it's pretty clear that 2 units of 10 boyz and the unit of 20 go inside the transports, while the bigger mob and a min one rely on Mob Up, or maybe it's just the 4x10 man squads that ride in the BWs.

In many metas this list would be illegal though since there are 5 weirdboyz.

I've tried similar lists in several games, actually I even run something very very close to it with two wagons with 4x10 squads of boyz, 2x20 stormboyz, 2x30 boyz on foot, dok, zhad, biker KFF, footslogging KFF, and two weirdboys instead of 5 but 4 KMKs. Alternatively a trukk with 7 bustas and 2 squigs instead of a 30 man mob and a couple of pks (two units of 20 instead of 4x10). I had decent results for casual/semi competitive games but going full mechanized or full green tides gives you a more optimized list according to my experience.

ManTube wrote:

 r_squared wrote:


@Mantube
The dakka jet is a solid platform, but, like the KMK, it's a hard target priority for all my opponents now. A couple of games and they've learned it's effectiveness, and to also stay out of the way when she blows. Is she makes it to turn 2 it's a bonus tbh. I fly her at the extreme of her range, select pathfinders and marker light drones where I can, or if they leave one of their buff characters out of position I may sacrifice it to take it out if I can. She's fun to play, and dakka dakka helps too. The problem is that she's squishy. A second one would help, but I'd have to reduce mob size, and lose 3 kmks to pay for her (I'd also have to buy another model).

Your last posted list looks good and puts you up to recommended boyz count as well as filling in more of our best shooting option. I'd run with it as it seems like it's the "fully realized" version of your first list, which looked somewhat constrained. Play it out and see how it goes, perhaps in the next point expansion add the second dakkajet. Redundancy is always going to help with survivability and overall effectiveness. Also, perhaps posting the lists of your opponents that are giving you the most trouble would help us give better advice on how to grow to defeat them. Are the point expansions always going to be 280 points?

I've decided to stick with it with one alteration to mix 10 shootas in with every blob of 30 so that it's not so obvious which unit might da jump, and to deal with annoying screen drones etc. I trialled having mixed units before and dumped it for taking too long, but I've had more practice now and I think it could be useful. This list, as you say, is fully realised and I've effectively doubled my damage output and absorption in one go. It should perform better now. I'm sure I'll still lose a unit a turn, ut only if they focus them down. I know my regular Tau op is bringing a Riptide this month. So that'll be interesting.

As to the points increase, yes every step up is max 280 points until we reach 2000. I am definitely considering another dakkajet, and probably some stormboyz. Ill see how things pan out this month.

I feel like a mixed unit does make sense. You wouldn't be impacting your close combat damage as drastically by only using a few shootas, and like you said you could that way actually have some shooting output while moving up the board. Worst comes to worst you could use them to absorb overwatch wounds before moving into close combat where the pistols would be preferred.

I even wonder about kombi skorchas for that reason. Technically, they can kill a marine on average. Considering that the unit would be advancing regardless and it is an autohit on advance, that doesn't seem that bad, albeit expensive. I hope they drop a few points in the codex, it could make it more interesting to diversify units.

 r_squared wrote:
Guys I'm not disputing the math, but I did mention that there wasnt just one squad of firewarriors, there were also gun drones and all sorts and my boy blob was initially well hidden and out of Los for nearly the lot until the Tau advanced into range and opened up. I lost 20+ boys in one round of shooting, and that was on his weakest flank. Morale then took its toll. I think when the smoke cleared that I had lost 27 Boyz. I had a second mob of 25 Boyz following, but rolled a 4 for morale after a command point re-roll. The last 2 nobz mobbed up with the follow up mob, we retreated and licked our wounds. I was trying to outflank and hit his weakest flank as hard and fast as possible. I figured I'd lose maybe 15 Boyz, possibly some more, but still have enough to charge home and consolidate through his right flank, but the buffs really hit hard. He was also re-rolling hits in there too, it was pretty grim.

The problem with this list is that once the ranged shooting is gone, I'm left with pretty slow, large mobs that are hard to effectively hide and die fast. I've won games, but there's more luck involved than I'd like. Every deployment has to be fully considered, every movement planned, measured and double checked, if you slip up you're toast and there just not the flexibility to get back in the game sometimes. Playing orks at the moment is definitely playing on hard mode. I envy our opponents ability to just shuffle a bit to get LOS and then open up and inflict devastating volleys. Combat seems double hard to achieve at the moment. I've played games using storm Boyz and kommandos to help outflank and saturate with threats, but the killyness of the gun lines just stops most assaults dead.

There is so much more involved in playing an assault based army with medium levels of fire support, it also doesn't help that we're index only and everyone I'm up against has a codex, and so many strategems that help them. Unfortunately I'm committed to the campaign, but at this rate, there won't be any orks left before the codex drops.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. "When the codex drops." Really, you are playing an index army against 2 codex armies. It's a miracle that you are winning any battles at all. It's not a question of better units or strategy, it's a question of sheer codex power. See if you're opponents will play a game without using any of the strategems, army abilities, or psychic powers that are not in their codex and see how you do.

That said, you are going to have to minimize casualties as much as possible. Keep the boyz in big blobs and blobs close together for no moral loss, painboy for 6+++ and Big Mek for 5++. Every twelve wounds will be reduced to 7 losses on average.

Looks like I'm one of 4 ork players in London GT. I've still got loads of boyz to paint lol, but for those interested here is my list.

I've noticed all the other lists have 60-90boyz, KMKs and most have big trakk with super skorcha 2-3 Of them.

I'm the only player taking Nobz ...

I did all the math on nobz and they are inferior in most ways to Boyz except for force concentration. Leadership also seems like a huge potential weakness, but at least you can pull shenanigans with the runts. I think they could be more effective in a trukk or in a BW compared to Boiz. But even then the runts are not exempt from the carrying capacity.

 TedNugent wrote:
I did all the math on nobz and they are inferior in most ways to Boyz except for force concentration. Leadership also seems like a huge potential weakness, but at least you can pull shenanigans with the runts. I think they could be more effective in a trukk or in a BW compared to Boiz. But even then the runts are not exempt from the carrying capacity.

Yup, Why take a nob squad when its worse then a boyz squad AND a boyz squad can get a FREE Nob.

Those Nobs have done work for me before, I know it's not optimal but I find people don't focus them until it's too late. They will smash through t8 better than anything else I have, and with runts and 4+ save are surprising durable.

If I were to replace them id probably get more dakka jets rather than boyz

This saturday I've got a game against Necrons (1200 Points). I have no clue what I should take besides of the Basics:


HQ
Warboss

Troops
30xboyz
30xboyz
10xgretchin

First time I Play against Necrons so any Input would be very helpfull.

 TedNugent wrote:
I did all the math on nobz and they are inferior in most ways to Boyz except for force concentration. Leadership also seems like a huge potential weakness, but at least you can pull shenanigans with the runts. I think they could be more effective in a trukk or in a BW compared to Boiz. But even then the runts are not exempt from the carrying capacity.

They also prevent moral casualties on a 6+. Not reliable, but if you manage to save 5 boyz over the course of a game, at least you have payed the same amount of points per wounds. It's also very amusing when an opponent tries to wipe a unit with moral - every model that succeeds its 6+ will remain on the battlefield, even if the moral check was -29.

mrtomski wrote:
Those Nobs have done work for me before, I know it's not optimal but I find people don't focus them until it's too late. They will smash through t8 better than anything else I have, and with runts and 4+ save are surprising durable.

If I were to replace them id probably get more dakka jets rather than boyz

They're not bad at all. Godspeed. I just don't know that they're as good as boyz rn.

They also prevent moral casualties on a 6+. Not reliable, but if you manage to save 5 boyz over the course of a game, at least you have payed the same amount of points per wounds. It's also very amusing when an opponent tries to wipe a unit with moral - every model that succeeds its 6+ will remain on the battlefield, even if the moral check was -29.

If they get into combat with t7 or t8 they make their points back quickly. That's what I have them for. Also they don't start to loose punching power until 10 runts and 4 nobs are dead. Take 18 wounds put of a boy squad and it's not going to be that effective any more, especially against high T targets where you need the weight of dice.

That's my theory and what I have experienced when fielding them, admittedly only in a couple of games. I love the models too ;-)

I'll post about how the list performs after the tornemant, there is some absolute filth being fielded so I'm just hoping not not be tabled and put in a good showing for my fellow ork players.

1500 pts, no duplicate detachments, tournament coming up on sunday. No painting requirement luckily seeing I'm still in mad rush to paint all the stuff...

Current list idea is:

Spearhead:

warboss(killchoppa, tenacious survivor)
weirdboy(da jump)
3xKMK
30xboyz(10 shoota, nob w/klaw)
10 boyz(nob w/klaw)
10 grots
25xstormboyz(nob w/klaw)
dakkajet(6xsupa shoota)

battallion:

warboss(klaw)
weirdboy(Warpath)
30xboyz(all shoota, nob w/klaw)
30xboyz(all choppa, nob w/klaw)
10xboyz(shootas, nob w/big choppa)

So 3 big blobs of boyz, 2 small ones as front screen/mob up material. 3 KMK and dakkajet for some shooting support. 10 grots for backfield chaff/front chaff depending on how much rear field deep strike I have to worry about.

Pretty standard I would think.

I'm wondering if anyone have a good advice against agressors? My friend uses them as an counter unit when I'm closing in on him. One unit pushes out about 120 shots. He's hard to shoot down as well as he plays them as raven guard. And he screens them with other units as well.

mrtomski wrote:

They also prevent moral casualties on a 6+. Not reliable, but if you manage to save 5 boyz over the course of a game, at least you have payed the same amount of points per wounds. It's also very amusing when an opponent tries to wipe a unit with moral - every model that succeeds its 6+ will remain on the battlefield, even if the moral check was -29.

If they get into combat with t7 or t8 they make their points back quickly. That's what I have them for. Also they don't start to loose punching power until 10 runts and 4 nobs are dead. Take 18 wounds put of a boy squad and it's not going to be that effective any more, especially against high T targets where you need the weight of dice.

That's my theory and what I have experienced when fielding them, admittedly only in a couple of games. I love the models too ;-)

I'll post about how the list performs after the tornemant, there is some absolute filth being fielded so I'm just hoping not not be tabled and put in a good showing for my fellow ork players.

They are worse vs T7 vehicles then a boy point for point, because S5 vs S4 doesn't matter on anything toughness 6-7, nobz are only better on T8 and T9. If you are taking 10 runtz and 10 nobz you have SUNK a lot of points into a single unit that will by necessity require a transport in order to not die turn 1. So add another 180pts for a battlewagon. Really quick it turns into a super elite, rather crappy unit. I am in no way saying don't take nobz if you like them. But the results are already in, Nobz are worse then Boyz.

Hi guys! I am very interested to start playing with ork. Although I tried to get the big picture which model are safe to pick that I should purchase to make a competitive army, I would still like to hear your opinion/suggestion. Currently my buying list:

Any other suggestions? I was wondering if stormboyz and painboy are any good and should I get 1 more Weirdboy?

Mikastan wrote:
Hi guys! I am very interested to start playing with ork. Although I tried to get the big picture which model are safe to pick that I should purchase to make a competitive army, I would still like to hear your opinion/suggestion. Currently my buying list:

Spoiler:

1 x Warboss
1 x Big Mek
2 x Mek gunz
1 x Weirdboy
90x boyz

Any other suggestions? I was wondering if stormboyz and painboy are any good and should I get 1 more Weirdboy?

This is a solid start. Painboyz and stormboyz are both a key part of our only real competitive build right now, everything else is already on your buying list. Stormboyz are expensive to buy at $25 for 5 of them, so I'd recommend getting into modeling and converting to make some regular boyz into stormboyz if you want big mobs. I'm currently planning to make a mob of 30 with two boxes of boyz and two boxes of stormboyz, using left over rokkits and other bits to give the regular boyz rokkit packs. Another conversion option I'd suggest is buying a trukk, and cannibalizing it for parts to combine with the left over guns from your mek gun kits. With a little ingenuity, you can turn those left over guns from the mek gunz kits into separate guns. For the price of one trukk, you can get another 3-6 mek guns out of those kits. There are a lot of great blogs and tutorials here on dakkadakka that can help you get your foot in the door when it comes to converting, and I'd really suggest it as an ork player. Our faction is definitely the most convertible. The orky aesthetic makes it really easy to just glue junk together and still have it look like it belongs in an orky arsenal.

Welcome to the Waaagh!