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Do we have proof of that?

Heck, even if he did do that, we should thank him for doing that right under GW's eyes.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/756759.page

Discussion about the GW tournament.

Thanks for the link.

Shame, it really seems like he just slowed the games down to not go to turn 4 ever.

zoggin' morker

Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Very true, but he didn't even play a true horde army. My last game major game was 90 Boyz, 90 Kommandos and 50 Stormboyz, I managed to get almost to turn 5 before time ran out.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Yeah. I most definitely do not slowplay yet in 2.5h I struggle to finish up game. Hell if anything I'm fast-playing to the level that if opponent is distrustful of opponent who picks up dices fast I would get called on that. I don't spend time thinking that much(which shows in result. I often go for what looks cool without spending even few seconds should I do it?) and don't need often check codex(and most of the time I do that it's on opponents turn anyway).

Orks are just SLOW. Tons of models to move, often 30-40 models moving twice a turn(da jump) plus charge moves. Then tons of shooting dices which adds up to very little so takes time for little result. Oh and because you don't kill that much opponent army size doesn't shrink that much so HIS turn often takes just as long as earlier. Especially true vs gunlines. Oh and you move slow so it's hard to reach to combat which is where you finally can remove some units with your pile of S4 -0 D1 attacks which thus takes lots of rolling to kill enough enemy to make a dent.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Multiple people have confirmed that he was actually wasting time and not playing his army at a reasonable pace. He was warned by multiple judges, but not sanctioned.
A nurgle player with a higher model count than him managed to get to turn 5-6 in every one of his games. As I gather, they had 3 hours to play before going to time, after which they would finish the current game turn.

While I wouldn't condemn slow players in general and know orks are time-consuming to play first hand, it's pretty clear that this guy was doing it on purpose.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Which is one reason why I hope Trukk Boyz becomes a thing again. Moving 8 trukks and some 80-odd other orks isn't bad at all.

Same for battlewagons - there is no faster way to move 60 boyz

Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

ManTube wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

I would drop the power klaw for a big choppa with the nob and give the warboss the only relic you can take, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, as it is free and far better than a klaw. I would also mix shoota and slugga boys in the unit of boys to give you greater tactical flexibility. In all honestly I would forget the plane as with only 2 Shootas it’s not as good as another mob of boys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FrankiePeanutz wrote:

ManTube wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

I would drop the power klaw for a big choppa with the nob and give the warboss the only relic you can take, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, as it is free and far better than a klaw. I would also mix shoota and slugga boys in the unit of boys to give you greater tactical flexibility. In all honestly I would forget the plane as with only 2 Shootas it’s not as good as another mob of boys.

I would Mob Up the boys then jump them closer to the enemy unit. The relic armed warboss is the best bet against those Dreadnoughts. The weird boy should stay out of combat and be screened by the grots until the last minute to finish off any weak units.

Looks decent enough though if he brings frag cannons in force you\ll likely be blown to bits alas.

I got the game vs slaanesh daemons that was supposed to be last week. Seems she was bit sick last week. More than good enough reason! Anyway I had warboss w/killachoppa, weirdboy w/da jump, 20 boyz with shootas, 30 boyz with shootas, 10 boyz with choppas, 3 KMK, battlewagon w/'ard case and deth rolla, trukk, 15 grots, painboy. She had 3x10 daemonettes, keeper of secret, flying prince with axe, 2x5 seekers, charriot thingie. Fast, faster, fastest.

Open war scenario gave us deployment where one(I) was at center, 2 objectives at each player DZ and hold both and you win. Twist was +1 to psychic and deny rolls plus more mortal wounds on perils.

I deployed basically toward the side of center with her objective(no surprise) with KMK's holding center line. Wagons were on upper flank as I realized with wide grot screen that I had put and buildings I couldn't get the wagons through from center! Whoops. She had on my right 2 units of foot daemons, 1 riders, prince, charriot. On other flank keeper, foot and steed unit. Not sure how good idea that splitting is BUT this does make it tough for me to protect my objective.

I got first turn which helped to ensure grot line doesn't get auto charged by 5 seekers and likely flying prince if he feels like coming in. So battlewagon rushes forward with trukk in town. Magic I perils with double 1. Yikes! With extra MW's I opted to reroll 1 despite having hard time casting succesfully but I get it! But then she non-chalantly denied it. Damn. Shooting I hurt the charriot and killed like 1 or 2 seekers from left flank. Then combat battlewagon charged other seeker squad not getting bothered by seekers needing 6 to wound, squashed 4 and last one got scared of seeing rolling death that ran so rudely over her friends that it vanished.

Her first turn keeper leads daemons on pincer move toward my bad moons but long ranges(9, 10 and 11 charges required) means failed them all. Oh and stand and shoot killed 5 daemons from foot squad. Yey. However psychic had left 3 dead(lucky with the all models roll dice and 6 is mortal wound) and -1 to hit. Damn. On right battewagon ate charge(and 4 wounds from smite) from basically everythign EXCEPT daemon prince(I even verified she did not want to charge the prince). However she realized that might not have been that smart when all the attempts to roll 6 kept failing and battlewagon non-chalantly squashed 4 daemonettes. However those buggers came back with 1 on morale test. Bugger!

Turn 2. Deth skulls disembar from battlewagon as did goffs, painboy and warboss from trukk and the squads mobbed up into big one. On left I had daemons to deal with so bad moons moved up toward keeper of secret. -1 to hit(-2 in h2h vs big one) or not I want that thing dead! Shooting KMK's fire at the keeper of secret but much to my horror all 4 wounds I got to the thing she saved with invulnerable save. REALLY? On right at least boyz charged daemon prince and daemonette unit killing daemonettes and wounding twice the prince for light casualties. On left bad moons had shot at seekers and charged the keeper for couple wounds. Hitting on 5+, 6+ with nob, really sucks!

Her turn 2 and daemon prince disengaged and prepared to smite(and charge) battlewagon. Seekers and foot daemonettes on left prepared to charge badmoons. Magic I managed to prevent the -1 to hit but smite hurt wagon and the MW spell killed 5 bad moons. This put them below 20.

H2h prince hacked at wagon first hurting it. I then interrupted and attacked with bad moons against keeper wounding several times. They then got promply wiped leaving only nob and I declined to use strategem to keep them around. On right battlewagon was destroyed and she consolidiated into the ork mob.

Turn 3. I smited seekers away and blew keeper with KMK's. On right I charged daemonettes with warboss. Combat was bloody causing 4 wounds to daemon prince and the charriot killing lots of boyz. Though painboy caused hurt to charriot and boyz and warlord hacked the second foot unit dead.

At this point we ran out of time. Can't understand how this 1k game with fairly small ork army couldn't play more than that especially as she had fairly simple h2h army as well. No shooting to speak off. One issue was though that she was obviously newish so had to be double checking things and fast dice rolling methods not familiar. Still sad we couldn't finish it.

We agreed to call it a draw which might be likely result. 4 daemonettes on left would charge KMK on objective, likely kill and consolidiate into second. I would disengage and then 15 grots vs 4 daemonettes. Maybe last KMK might be able to shoot with some movement as well. 15 grots alone should kill about 2 in average so leaves 2 and 15 grots I have used to deal with 2 genestealers on their charge and they are better vs grots than daemonettes.

Howver on right I was critically low on boyz who were my primary prince candinates. Like hell I would like to test my warboss with 6++ only vs 4 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+ or 4+ and having D3. Ugh. So warboss would likely have tried to deal with the charriot leaving her in quandrum. Concentrate on warboss he might or might not die. If not she'll likely lose both charriot and prince to basic boyz. If she concentrates to warboss killing it the painboy might finish charriot anyway and boyz wil almost certainly finsih the daemon prince. Either way she would be with 1 unit left in whole army so controlling 2 objectives would be pretty damn tough. and I still would have 2 KMK's to shoot.

However for me ways to get to the objectives with basically KMK's left and not that close

Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Good game, tneva.
Iirc fly doesn't allow to charge after falling back. Only shoot. But i might be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FrankiePeanutz wrote:
Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Why don't i see berserker gunlines? I don't know, those things are mysteries.

FrankiePeanutz wrote:
Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Whom you are asking? If me then two reasons: a) I only have 20 assembled and painted ATM. 20 unassembled, more coming. They are useful but there's only so many models I can paint in a week. b) time. When you have 2h to play up and struggle to finish up even without horde do you think game becomes faster or slower with horde of grots? I'm trying to figure out faster armies even at the cost of absolute power because frankly spending free time of one day and coming home at 23.00 or so because of game that goes to turn 2-3 is not that fun.

If people haven't seen it yet, here's a good bat rep with a mechanized ork list against Dark Angels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-m9LBgyMvM

Ghaz'khull is always well worth his points in every game for me. His invul save alone makes him an invaluable beast. When I don't bring him I notice. All the extra points of whatever is just more Orkz tripping over themselves. Ghaz getting in CC anywhere gets stuff flipped over and krumped then we do the next thing.

The Harlequin Strategems are up...this one may provide hope for Orks and fallback:

Cegorach’s Jest (1CP) - Use this Stratagem when an enemy unit Falls Back from a Harlequins unit from your army, after the enemy unit has finished moving. Provided no other enemy units are within 1" of your unit, it can shoot the enemy unit that Fell Back as if it were the Shooting phase.

Could it be that we will get one like it but get an assault attack? Pleeeease?!

I said that would be a great stratagem for orks the other day, one last swing as they’re running

FWIW "one last swing" should be a core rule, not a stratagem...

Yeah, there is too little incentive to stay in combat right now. If you're going to lose combat anyways, there is no reason to stay there.

Oh boy oh boy. I got one of the worst beatings ever. Not worst(the one I killed 0 enemy and 2 own guys has to be worst!) but still I was so dead. Albeit I knew from the start I would likely get beaten but didn't think it would be THIS bad.

I wanted some change of pace from infantry swarm especially as would be playing 4 games with plenty infantry for points this week anyway(tournament coming up on sunday) so I had 2 warboss, 2 painboys, 20 boyz twice with shootas, 2x10 boyz with choppas, 6 tank busta+2 bomb squig, 15 grots, 2 KMK, 2 trukks, 2 battlewagons, chinork. SO basically mechanized list with 5 transports full of orks.

And of course the first time I run this list I run into list that seemed like tailor made against this On previous games I could name plenty of others which would have been better targets for my list but this time with this new player I had no idea what kind of lists he runs I ran into pask+basic russ+hellhound+shadowsword+2 infantry squad+conscript squad+heavy bolter HWS+2 psykers, 2 commissar lord.

That isn't all that optimized IG list(no mortar HWT's, conscripts, commissars etc) but I had just brought army that was like custom made as target practice for them...Whoops.

Then to make things worse we rolled randomly from chapter approved and got maelstrom and then recon or whatever it was that you split army into 3 parts and roll what you get. Well I got battlewagon+trukk pair. He got pask+russ+hellhound.

First turn my objectives were WORTHLESS. PRiority order to hold objective close to his lines with my warlord(gee duh) that's offboard. Hold objective on his DZ for 2 turns. And some other that I couldn't get. Anyway I moved forward and then rolled for reserves. BTW this reserve rule version SUCKS for orks. For starters we just get to deploy on our edge which is slow(even moving normally would be MINIMUM equally fast for basic boyz and nevermind our transports) and we can't do much after that. IG meanwhile? Count as moving. Bohoo. 1st turn arrivals are basically nearly as good as if they had deployed. Then my poor chinork came on turn 1 so I can't deploy outside my deployment zone. His vehicles were so far that I either put it in sight(and still out of range. 24" between DZ's) or out of sight and don't shoot before turn 3...Gee. Oh and if he hadn't come on turn 1 then it would come automatically turn 2 movement phase end so I could even deep strike as normal...Do I HAVE to deploy him on turn 1 if I roll that 3+?

Anyway not much point going blow by blow. Basically I tried to advance, he blew up tanks easily. His shadowsword came on turn 1(actually most of his stuff came while I for example was 1 BW short) so all shadowsword lost due to reserve was cadian reroll for first turn. So my vehicles were blown to bits easily and infantry blown in quick order I only got 3 boyz and warboss into combat alive. Would have got one unit of boyz against hellhound but rolling 5" I tried for sheer desperation more to tag hopefully another squad and some HQ but rolled 4 and failed charge. Well not that it really mattered.

That hurt. I managed to bring custom tailored optimal target for the army and that scenario sooooooo screwed me up. It's like custom made for IG army vs orks.

But I ordered some movement trays to help moving stuff. Various of 5, 6, 8 and 10 model trays to ensure I have some flexibility moving around terrain. With these I should get to play infantry faster. So next time I'll run some 120 orks, 25 storm boyz and 40 grots. Take that down your throat!

My usual boyz swarm would have been pretty good against this army though scenario would still have made it probably loss. Coming piece meal is pretty bad. Though weirdboys would have helped a bit. At least after arriving weirdboy could lift them away.

Orks champion list!!!

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/18/orks-r-kiltons-list-2/

So this diceshot thing is preeeeetty good

More battlewagons

Opinion time, I am having a hard time deciding what to bring to my next tournament. I have 160 Boyz (including 6 nobz) some stormboyz and some Kommandos as well as 5 Mek Gunz (KMK)

So here is my question, with all of that in mind, should I bring Ghaz, OR should I bring a warboss with Relic BC and a Banner Nob and have more points left over for other stuff? I did the math, and a Banner Nob is about equal to +1 to attack on the charge. 4 attacks hitting on 2 instead of 3s Vs 5 attacks hitting on 3s. I am leaning towards Banner Nob and Warboss just to give more area of effect for my Morale relegation. I am also bringing 2 Weirdboyz and a Painboy.

Ghar will wreck so many things, including hard targets, that extra wounds from choppas pales by comparison. Usually the boys don't need the help anyway.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Ghar will wreck so many things, including hard targets, that extra wounds from choppas pales by comparison. Usually the boys don't need the help anyway.

How does that compare though to the Banner Nob and Warboss with Relic BC, I am assuming Ghaz ends up winning as far as dmg output, but I am also using this for Morale issue reduction.

Warboss and Thrakka both have the same rule for failed moral checks. The only real difference is that banner and warboss can be in two places, allowing you to bring the 6+ nob roll to units that are not near the warboss, Thrakka cannot.
On the flip side, banner is very vulnerable to snipers, if that is an issue in your meta.
In general Thrakka is good at taking down hard targets like tanks and monstrous creatures, a warboss is better at clearing infantry due to the attack squig and MW from the relic.

Also worth noting: If you buff warpath on a boyz unit which still has the green tide bonus, banner is superior to Thrakka's Waaagh, on units without green tide bonus or warpath buff, Thrakka's +1A is superior to the banner. Thrakka also doesn't work when charged.
So, for the aura, banner is superior when you regularly find yourself in combat with less than 20 models and/or get charged a lot.