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I just need to know what the harp chick does and Christmas came early.

All the point decreases put something like 400 points back into my list.

If the Harp girl is good, Slaanesh is going to be pretty scary.

Zarakynel ridiculously overpriced now. Went from 3 Keepers to 4 keepers in cost, since she didn't change.

Rip centerpiece. Guess the rest of the army is still OK!

Thoughts on Lord of Change points update? The inability to make the LoC 2++ basically took it off the table in any competitive sense in a meta where you will always eat a volcano lance turn 1. However at 50 points cheaper it isnt' quite as devestating to lose. 270 points, lets assume investment into the robe, puts it at a 3++ on 16 wounds. Even dropping WL trait the 2 casts at 2+ (at full spec) and the ability to be a damage sink might be appealing? I feel the inability to go to 2++ also helps as there isn't a feeling of obligation of blowing a 3CP Warpsurge on the model and makes it more balanced...

If you aren't playing against knights every game or a shadowsword - it might actually live past turn one and be fieldable? Still doesn't seem "tier 1" but maybe there is a place?

P.S. I realize Kairos is cheaper as well and points total on par with LoC but can't really buy-in to the fact he is stuck at a 4++ which is just very instagibbable...

orkswubwub wrote:
Thoughts on Lord of Change points update? The inability to make the LoC 2++ basically took it off the table in any competitive sense in a meta where you will always eat a volcano lance turn 1. However at 50 points cheaper it isnt' quite as devestating to lose. 270 points, lets assume investment into the robe, puts it at a 3++ on 16 wounds. Even dropping WL trait the 2 casts at 2+ (at full spec) and the ability to be a damage sink might be appealing? I feel the inability to go to 2++ also helps as there isn't a feeling of obligation of blowing a 3CP Warpsurge on the model and makes it more balanced...

If you aren't playing against knights every game or a shadowsword - it might actually live past turn one and be fieldable? Still doesn't seem "tier 1" but maybe there is a place?

P.S. I realize Kairos is cheaper as well and points total on par with LoC but can't really buy-in to the fact he is stuck at a 4++ which is just very instagibbable...

explain me what you can put on the table for those 50 saved points... i guess nothing so why now he should be so playable? because when you lost it turn 1 you lost 50 less points? so again how you can invest in those 50pts?

I see everything in slaanesh went down in cost substantially this is amazing.

Edit: OMG the amount everything went down is insane I just compared pts and I can't believe how cheap everything has gotten

Yeah, I lost nearly 300pts off my 2K list.

Can you tell me what I'm allowed to spend them on, blackmage?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Yeah, I lost nearly 300pts off my 2K list.

Can you tell me what I'm allowed to spend them on, blackmage?

6 Seeker chariots or 50 daemonettes clearly

Maybe some Fiends...

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Maybe some Fiends...

I think they are still too expensive at 42pts unless they received a stat buff in wrath and rapture.

orkswubwub wrote:
Thoughts on Lord of Change points update? The inability to make the LoC 2++ basically took it off the table in any competitive sense in a meta where you will always eat a volcano lance turn 1. However at 50 points cheaper it isnt' quite as devestating to lose. 270 points, lets assume investment into the robe, puts it at a 3++ on 16 wounds. Even dropping WL trait the 2 casts at 2+ (at full spec) and the ability to be a damage sink might be appealing? I feel the inability to go to 2++ also helps as there isn't a feeling of obligation of blowing a 3CP Warpsurge on the model and makes it more balanced...

If you aren't playing against knights every game or a shadowsword - it might actually live past turn one and be fieldable? Still doesn't seem "tier 1" but maybe there is a place?

P.S. I realize Kairos is cheaper as well and points total on par with LoC but can't really buy-in to the fact he is stuck at a 4++ which is just very instagibbable...

These minor points changes to big monster type units won't affect competitive play much, if at all. Same goes for stuff like some of the big Tyranid monsters and things like Wraithlords and Wraithknights. The points decreases will help in casual play where people don't consistently bring enough damage to take these things down. But against comp lists a slightly cheaper LoC or Bloodthirster or Wraithknight is really just a slightly less of a waste of points. Most or all of the units in the 'big, overcosted monster' category have the primary issue of not being able to consistently deliver their payloads before they die. Doesn't matter if it's 100 points cheaper, it still dies on T1 or T2 at the latest before it gets a chance to really do anything. Which means from a competitive standpoint literally any other meta unit is a better value for points.

For casual play the points decreases help. Competitive, not so much.

Btw, you didn't need a Shadowsword or knight to kill a post-nerf LoC. It dies effortlessly to non-meta stuff too like a unit or two of double-shooting obliterators. That's practically a guaranteed kill for basically no risk. At best the LoC gets off 4 spells and soaks up some S8 shooting before it dies. Not a great way to spend hundreds of points. 30 Plaguebearers and a poxbringer will soak up a lot more damage and have far more impact over the course of the game than that.

 Rydria wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Maybe some Fiends...

I think they are still too expensive at 42pts unless they received a stat buff in wrath and rapture.

Fiends are still too expensive for how fragile they are. But I'm still hopeful that they'll get a buffed stat line with the new box set. They're so large now that they should be T5 and S5.

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Maybe some Fiends...

I think they are still too expensive at 42pts unless they received a stat buff in wrath and rapture.

Fiends are still too expensive for how fragile they are. But I'm still hopeful that they'll get a buffed stat line with the new box set. They're so large now that they should be T5 and S5.

yeah aren't they almost as big as a daemon prince now ?

I remember in the 4th edition codex, where they where strength 5 with 5 attacks and 1 of them could be upgraded to have strength 6, I wish they where like that again.

Assuming fiends are unchanged they are the only thing i'm not particularly hyped for, i'm really happy at the massive point decreases across the board for everything else, just goes to show how over costed the slaanesh army was, from the index to now Daemonettes have had a 50% point decrease in total that in bonkers for a horde unit.


Edit: Fiends got changed they gained +1 wound....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://imgur.com/a/aRfopFv

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Yeah, I lost nearly 300pts off my 2K list.

Can you tell me what I'm allowed to spend them on, blackmage?

i should know 1st ur list


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:

orkswubwub wrote:
Thoughts on Lord of Change points update? The inability to make the LoC 2++ basically took it off the table in any competitive sense in a meta where you will always eat a volcano lance turn 1. However at 50 points cheaper it isnt' quite as devestating to lose. 270 points, lets assume investment into the robe, puts it at a 3++ on 16 wounds. Even dropping WL trait the 2 casts at 2+ (at full spec) and the ability to be a damage sink might be appealing? I feel the inability to go to 2++ also helps as there isn't a feeling of obligation of blowing a 3CP Warpsurge on the model and makes it more balanced...

If you aren't playing against knights every game or a shadowsword - it might actually live past turn one and be fieldable? Still doesn't seem "tier 1" but maybe there is a place?

P.S. I realize Kairos is cheaper as well and points total on par with LoC but can't really buy-in to the fact he is stuck at a 4++ which is just very instagibbable...

These minor points changes to big monster type units won't affect competitive play much, if at all. Same goes for stuff like some of the big Tyranid monsters and things like Wraithlords and Wraithknights. The points decreases will help in casual play where people don't consistently bring enough damage to take these things down. But against comp lists a slightly cheaper LoC or Bloodthirster or Wraithknight is really just a slightly less of a waste of points. Most or all of the units in the 'big, overcosted monster' category have the primary issue of not being able to consistently deliver their payloads before they die. Doesn't matter if it's 100 points cheaper, it still dies on T1 or T2 at the latest before it gets a chance to really do anything. Which means from a competitive standpoint literally any other meta unit is a better value for points.

For casual play the points decreases help. Competitive, not so much.

Btw, you didn't need a Shadowsword or knight to kill a post-nerf LoC. It dies effortlessly to non-meta stuff too like a unit or two of double-shooting obliterators. That's practically a guaranteed kill for basically no risk. At best the LoC gets off 4 spells and soaks up some S8 shooting before it dies. Not a great way to spend hundreds of points. 30 Plaguebearers and a poxbringer will soak up a lot more damage and have far more impact over the course of the game than that.

100% agree, 50pts means nothing problem is not the unit itself is the state of game now, heavy savage shooting cant make room for a model cant hide and it is easily targettable, i play actually a list without one single targettable multi wound model (only 2 Dp's and 4 heralds) the rest only plaguebearers and letters, unless i face very heavy anti infantry lists usually i win without much troubles, then of course player make the difference but this is not the edition of big bad guys, beside few units (ie Ik's). imho.

Thoughts on the slaanesh units with the substantial point reductions across the board ?

I really like the chariots going down by 20pts, perhaps it is possible to actually do a decent horde slaanesh list now or is it still too slow ?

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Maybe some Fiends...

I think they are still too expensive at 42pts unless they received a stat buff in wrath and rapture.

Fiends are still too expensive for how fragile they are. But I'm still hopeful that they'll get a buffed stat line with the new box set. They're so large now that they should be T5 and S5.

yeah aren't they almost as big as a daemon prince now ?

I remember in the 4th edition codex, where they where strength 5 with 5 attacks and 1 of them could be upgraded to have strength 6, I wish they where like that again.

Assuming fiends are unchanged they are the only thing i'm not particularly hyped for, i'm really happy at the massive point decreases across the board for everything else, just goes to show how over costed the slaanesh army was, from the index to now Daemonettes have had a 50% point decrease in total that in bonkers for a horde unit.


Edit: Fiends got changed they gained +1 wound....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://imgur.com/a/aRfopFv

Well Damn. There's now there's no chance that they'll be getting better rules outside of a new codex. So GW made them bigger, making it harder to get out of LOS; but gave them +1 wound to compensate and a 4 pt discount to compensate for the increased number of shots they'll be taking. Seriously, the new model is more than twice the height of a non-Primaris space marine; but the same S4/T4? I can't say I'm disappointed I was expecting worse.

On the 4th edition codex S5 with 5 attacks wasn't even the best part about Fiends back then. Rending was on a 6 to hit, Fleet allowed re-rolling one or more Run and Charge dice, always hit first no matter, and they had Hit and Run to leave combat during the opponents turn. Excessive and Glorious! That codex also had the best chariots. Plus Heralds Chariots, Daemon Princes, and the KOS could all pay 10-20 pts Hit & Run to Fallback in your opponent's turn at the end of combat and entirely avoid the shooting phase. My Dance of Death army was 2 Keepers, 3 Daemon Princes, and 3X units of six Fiends pin balling around the board. Good times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:
Thoughts on the slaanesh units with the substantial point reductions across the board ?

I really like the chariots going down by 20pts, perhaps it is possible to actually do a decent horde slaanesh list now or is it still too slow ?

It really depends on the units your taking really and how competitive you are. I'm currently running 60 Daemonettes so the new price nets me an additional 10 models; so not much of a horde. But I am looking forward to running all the chariots I bought for the Grand Cavalcade detachment, again. Will they be good? No, but it'll be a good time. Is the KOS worth it now? Nope, but now I can run them in addition to the more viable units. I have three custom Soul-grinders that will actually see play again. I don't believe that the points change will make Mono-Slaanesh more competitive, we'll just have more of what we already had; and maybe some of the worst units will see play now. The loss of Fleet, the +3" run, and the loss of initiative really hurt Slaanesh this edition.

Looks like our competitive troop spam list will still be very meta. I'm all for continuing to indulge in the daemonic hordes

Plague drones are slightly nerfed but practically speaking they're in the same spot as before.

Changecasters got a nice 13 pt point decrease. Not sure why as they were already great.

Exalted flamers got a huge points decrease which is great for casual.

GUO's with bileblade/sword at 275 is a nice buff. At that price it still competes with the cheaper 30x plaguebearer squad with nearly double the wounds, more damage, and obsec. GUO still pays a pretty big premium for less wounds, T7, and some psychic. But with bilepiper and tree synergy it could be a fun alternate pick that's approaching competitive. If only they made it T8.

Furies still suck despite 20% discount.

Skullmaster for 10 pts less is kinda fun.

Hellflayer at 70 pts is huge for Slaanesh lists. It's potentially an absurd number of CC attacks if you can make it into combat with a nearby herald. Same with 50pt Seeker Chariots.

The other greater daemons are nicer for casual, still not competitive.

Competitive lists are unaffected.

*EDIT* I initially underestimated how much the savings stacked up for mono Slaanesh lists. Easily the biggest winners here with ~300 points savings across the board. Could this impact the competitive meta?

A 300pt unit of Nurglings?

How deliciously dismissive and inaccurate.

That's pretty impressive savings. What does the list look like?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to be clear, comparing the points saved to a unit of Nurglings wasn't meant to be dismissive. Nurglings are literally one of the best, most competitive units in the whole meta. An extra unit of 6-9 Nurglings is huge. Like, game-winningly huge. Not sure how you read that as dismissive.

60 Daemonettes (-60pts), eighteen Seekers (-72pts), six Chariots (-69pts for three Hellflayers, - 40pts for two Seeker Chariots), six Heralds (-18pts for the three on foot), six Fiends (-24pts) for a grand total of -283pts.

It's not that I thought you were being dismissive of Nurglings, rather that you were underselling the points savings. A unit of Nurglings is what, 50pts?

Doesn’t include things unchanged but this is the pts drop on my mono slaanesh force.

120 Daemonettes
40 Seeker
3 Seeker chariorts
1 Exalted Seeker Chariot
2 Heralds
Old Total: 1662
New Total: 1370

Very nice. Yeah, like I mentioned in my post the points savings on Hellflayers and Seeker Chariots is crazy for Slaanesh lists.

The 1-point drop on daemonettes is also nice when you're running that many daemonettes. I suppose I wasn't considering how much the savings stack up for mono-Slaanesh daemons.

BTW, a max unit of 9 nurglings is a very solid, difficult-to-dislodge, back field infiltrator for ~150 points. I wasn't that far off


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oof, fair enough. Looks like mono-Slaanesh daemons are the big winners here with ~300 point savings across the board.

Yeah it feels like it can do an actual viable horde style list now that list i posted (incomplete) has 166 bodies and isn’t even at 1500pts yet everything with a 5++.

I’m thinking of running them in min sized units of 10 for target saturation,

Would be amazing to see a mono Slaanesh horde meta.

I'll probably keep my 3x20 Daemonettes as is, but add 30 more in 3x10 so I can go dual Battalion.

Blows that Zarakynel is still unplayable. I guess enough people buy Her as a centrepiece that it doesn't matter that She is utterly awful.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'll probably keep my 3x20 Daemonettes as is, but add 30 more in 3x10 so I can go dual Battalion.

Blows that Zarakynel is still unplayable. I guess enough people buy Her as a centrepiece that it doesn't matter that She is utterly awful.

She's super overcosted, but I still love playing her.
I had her run over and murder Draigo, which was probably my favorite moment with her.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'll probably keep my 3x20 Daemonettes as is, but add 30 more in 3x10 so I can go dual Battalion.

Blows that Zarakynel is still unplayable. I guess enough people buy Her as a centrepiece that it doesn't matter that She is utterly awful.

I’m thinking of taking 3 solo fiends and taking a brigade how much CP is a brigade worth now 12 ?

Yeah, 12.

I'd need another HS option to run a Brigade; maybe I'll demote my Herald on Chariot to just a Chariot and get another Herald on Seeker to replace her, or maybe the Masque.

How did your mono Slaanesh lists perform compared other fluffy mono faction lists?

Mono-Slaanesh for me is 7-4-1. Lost my first four, won seven in a row, drew my last game.

That's not strictly against 'fluffy' mono-Faction lists though, I play against whoever is willing to throw down.

Sounds like pretty good results. I'm guessing this is at your local game store or friend circle?

I'm reaching a point at my local shop where the lists I'm bringing are often way too OP for what most people seem to be able to handle for pick up games. Probably due to a lot of the advice in this thread. Which factions do you find produce the most fun match-ups with your list?