Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
You forget that on a charge or being charged bloodletters have +1 attack. So in this example they have 13.4 attacks vs 6. They also have much much more board pressence. You can easily kill a threat, hold an objective and bad touch a shooting unit with one unit. Whereas crushers have to choose to do one. Plus smaller bases means you can get them places more easily and take hostages more easily.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 16:40:40
small_gods wrote: You forget that on a charge or being charged bloodletters have +1 attack. So in this example they have 13.4 attacks vs 6. They also have much much more board pressence. You can easily kill a threat, hold an objective and bad touch a shooting unit with one unit. Whereas crushers have to choose to do one. Plus smaller bases means you can get them places more easily and take hostages more easily.
Thanks. Knowing that I'll probably just use the crushers as a distraction unit or to eat overwatch for the letters.
I'm thinking of dumping my Soul Grinder for more Bloodletters. It's the only heavy support I currently have in the army, and unless I replace it with one Skull Cannon, I won't have any artillery whatsoever. Then again, I'm thinking of focusing on relying on deepstriking a lot of my forces to get into close combat quickly, and while I could do this with the SG, I'm not sure if it's worth it. What do you all think I should do?
lindsay40k wrote: Fiends are still pricey gimmick tier. The new character is cool, her 24” aura is bad news for psykers.
I figured fiends would still be meh, they seem really over costed for what they do.
How well did everything else end up with the point decreases ?
Personally I've found a 3 man unit of Fiends very useful.
Between having them lock enemies in combat that don't want to be there, and using that to take advantage of the character rules they are good. Most opponents who don't know Slaanesh will underestimate their disruptive potential.
In terms of other Slaanesh units, I can't really comment as I haven't been running pure Slaanesh for long.
ArcaneHorror wrote: I'm thinking of dumping my Soul Grinder for more Bloodletters. It's the only heavy support I currently have in the army, and unless I replace it with one Skull Cannon, I won't have any artillery whatsoever. Then again, I'm thinking of focusing on relying on deepstriking a lot of my forces to get into close combat quickly, and while I could do this with the SG, I'm not sure if it's worth it. What do you all think I should do?
competitive demons DO NOT need artillery
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
ArcaneHorror wrote: I'm thinking of dumping my Soul Grinder for more Bloodletters. It's the only heavy support I currently have in the army, and unless I replace it with one Skull Cannon, I won't have any artillery whatsoever. Then again, I'm thinking of focusing on relying on deepstriking a lot of my forces to get into close combat quickly, and while I could do this with the SG, I'm not sure if it's worth it. What do you all think I should do?
competitive demons DO NOT need artillery
Good, more points for me then.
slave.entity wrote:Warhammer Community is now advocating an 8x Bloodthirster list. Could this... could this just be crazy enough to work???
Man, if I had the money for it, this would kick ass to run!
It really would. In a non-tournament setting, what would be the target priority on the 3 different bloodthirster types?
I'm assuming they'd all deploy as far forward as possible and go for that T2 charge. I'd expect at least 3 dead bloodthirsters by the time they make it, but that's ok because there will be 5 more ready to smash into their infantry screen.
Man, if I had the money for it, this would kick ass to run!
It really would. In a non-tournament setting, what would be the target priority on the 3 different bloodthirster types?
I'm assuming they'd all deploy as far forward as possible and go for that T2 charge. I'd expect at least 3 dead bloodthirsters by the time they make it, but that's ok because there will be 5 more ready to smash into their infantry screen.
If I were facing them, I’d probably go for the Insensate Ragers first. Every turn the infantry screen still exists is another turn of shooting at the steamroller.
I can see Skarbrand being a lynchpin. If he can get in there and force one of your screening units to stay in combat and get eaten in your turn, you’re in a LOT of trouble.
Today I ran a three round RTT in New England with some really great players there. It was educational, and I wanted to share some of my experiences with you all.
Nurgle I ran Sloppity and 2 squads of 30 plaguebearers. In no game was either squad completely wiped. They were brought down to 2-3 monsters in some games, but they always stuck around grabbing objectives and just being generally annoying.
They are really good units for general board control. I was able to use them to block off my entire deployment area in hammer and anvil to prevent deep strikers.
GUO This is a good unit that absorbed an incredible amount of firepower. I would often use the power that made him -1 to hit, and his warlord trait gave everyone with 7" another -1 to hit. Having a -2 to hit this guy was really clutch. In 2/3 of the games he died. In 2/3 of them, he also did a heck of a lot of damage, wiping out multiple units and ripping apart titiantic units. For 275 points, it's a good model.
Soul Grinders I ran three of them, and they were the MVPs of my games. For 180 points, they are just so darn resilient. They get 10 attacks in assault at full profile. The battlecannon and 3 shot autocannon shot are just so good. Sure they only hit on 5's when they move, but they can give a great threat zone. One of mine walked through a GSC army just tearing apart unit after unit. If you have not tried them, I suggest it.
Renegade Knight I took one of these with a reaper chainsword and avenger gatling cannon. It was fairly 'meh' and died quickly in 2/3 of the games. I took the model because I think it looked great, but I don't think I'l be taking it again. I could have used deep striking flamers for a better effect.
Nurglings If you are playing ITC, these guys are your engineers! Take 2 squads of them! Stick them in a building so they can't be seen, and let them just engineer away on an objective. One of my opponents used mortors to tag them from outside LoS (even when they were in a ruins with no doors) -- but in the other games they racked me up 4 points. Overall it merges very well with engineer.
Daemon Prince of Nurgle You should already know all about these guys. They hit hard, they fly fast. They are fairly vulnerable when they can be targeted.
The GSC was able to do some damage with snipers on him, doing 6 wounds. That kind of sucked.
In my game against 'Crons, he lived the entire game slashing away on a huge lord of war model.
Against the eldar, he was caught out of position and brought down with shuriken cats.
By now, you should know about these guys. They deliver as advertised. 180 points of face hitting goodness.
GSC This is an army to be really wary of. The guy I played with had 25 command points to start with. He got another 4 over the course of the game by using warlord traits.
He had tons of units, which let me get lots of kills against him. That's one weakness. He was able to deep strike some units with amazing synergy. He tore apart the knight like it was butter and did a number on many of the grinders.
Be careful of this list. I think the GSC is going to be a top tier list.
Hmmm, any nurgle daemon players considering adding a Daemonkin contingent to your army? With the new units and rules from shadowspear box.
Nurgle possessed are now a very hard hitting unit with additional buffs from Daemonkin. They have:
1) Master of possession psychic cursed earth to give them 4++
2) Master of possession psychic to give them reroll 1 to wound and to hit.
3) Master of possession psychic that can reroll their random attacks.
4) Greater possessed gives them +1 Str, which makes them str 6.
5) Greater possessed themselves are like mini daemon princes too. They hit like a truck.
And from the nurgle daemon side these possessed/greater possessed get:
1) +1 str from Plaguebringers (nurgle herald)
2) Nurgle Loci (exploding 6 wounds, etc).
3) Nurgle psychic spells.
4) Reroll 1 to hit (Daemon Prince).
Those nurgle possessed and greater possessed are going to be a really hard hitting unit on the battlefield.
Soul Grinders I ran three of them, and they were the MVPs of my games. For 180 points, they are just so darn resilient. They get 10 attacks in assault at full profile. The battlecannon and 3 shot autocannon shot are just so good. Sure they only hit on 5's when they move, but they can give a great threat zone. One of mine walked through a GSC army just tearing apart unit after unit. If you have not tried them, I suggest it.
I still can't seem to get mine to run well in my list, when I run him I usually run a gallant too. Maybe I need to swap gallant for 2 more soul grunders. That said mine is khorne, were you running yours nurgle?
Eldenfirefly wrote: Hmmm, any nurgle daemon players considering adding a Daemonkin contingent to your army? With the new units and rules from shadowspear box.
Nurgle possessed are now a very hard hitting unit with additional buffs from Daemonkin. They have:
1) Master of possession psychic cursed earth to give them 4++
2) Master of possession psychic to give them reroll 1 to wound and to hit.
3) Master of possession psychic that can reroll their random attacks.
4) Greater possessed gives them +1 Str, which makes them str 6.
5) Greater possessed themselves are like mini daemon princes too. They hit like a truck.
And from the nurgle daemon side these possessed/greater possessed get:
1) +1 str from Plaguebringers (nurgle herald)
2) Nurgle Loci (exploding 6 wounds, etc).
3) Nurgle psychic spells.
4) Reroll 1 to hit (Daemon Prince).
Those nurgle possessed and greater possessed are going to be a really hard hitting unit on the battlefield.
I play as DG player primarily so my Nurgle Daemons are usually a supporting detachment (I still have 2k points though!) but with this release I can see doing something like above as the synergy between Daemonkin and DG is clunky, where as it works fine between CSM/Daemonkin and ND. I think Nurglings and Plaguebearers really help this kind of build too as Nurglings can get right in your opponents face and PBs are decent in melee too, 20-30 can't be ignored. A Gnarlmaw is madatory IMO too for a 2+ save and fall back/advance charge to go with that juicy 4++ inv.
small_gods wrote: I still can't seem to get mine to run well in my list, when I run him I usually run a gallant too. Maybe I need to swap gallant for 2 more soul grunders. That said mine is khorne, were you running yours nurgle?
Nurgle. Every day. Twice on Sunday.
Nurgle really ups their survivability, even more than Tzeentch.
So if you are Nurgle, and you are attacked by weapons that give you your base save -- like Tesla weapons, you are getting your 2/3 save plus your 1/3 DR. Lets say 120 orks swings are incoming at a soul grinder.
Khorne Grinder : (2/3 to hit) * (1/3 to wound) * (1/3 failed save) = 2/27. 120 attacks = ~8.88 wounds to grinder. It's degraded
Nurgle Grinder : (2/3 to hit) * (1/3 to wound) * (1/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed DR) = 4/81= ~5.92 wounds done to grinder. It's still at full.
That's almost 3 less wounds on average the nurgle grinder takes from the same attack. The nurgle grinder also can heal D3 wounds as a stratagem, and another D3 with a power. It's not uncommon for me to heal 4 wounds a round on a grinder, bringing it back up to full profile.
The nurgle grinder also really kicks in with a loci. Since they are swinging 10 times with a claw, they get more chances to roll that 6 to wound. That means any of those hits will make the claw do D3+1 damage, which is, on average, 3 damage vs 2. That's a 50% increase in damage.
The nurgle grinder can also benefit from the nurgle tree, letting you get all kinds of shennagins.
small_gods wrote: I still can't seem to get mine to run well in my list, when I run him I usually run a gallant too. Maybe I need to swap gallant for 2 more soul grunders. That said mine is khorne, were you running yours nurgle?
Nurgle. Every day. Twice on Sunday.
Nurgle really ups their survivability, even more than Tzeentch.
So if you are Nurgle, and you are attacked by weapons that give you your base save -- like Tesla weapons, you are getting your 2/3 save plus your 1/3 DR. Lets say 120 orks swings are incoming at a soul grinder.
Khorne Grinder : (2/3 to hit) * (1/3 to wound) * (1/3 failed save) = 2/27. 120 attacks = ~8.88 wounds to grinder. It's degraded
Nurgle Grinder : (2/3 to hit) * (1/3 to wound) * (1/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed DR) = 4/81= ~5.92 wounds done to grinder. It's still at full.
That's almost 3 less wounds on average the nurgle grinder takes from the same attack. The nurgle grinder also can heal D3 wounds as a stratagem, and another D3 with a power. It's not uncommon for me to heal 4 wounds a round on a grinder, bringing it back up to full profile.
The nurgle grinder also really kicks in with a loci. Since they are swinging 10 times with a claw, they get more chances to roll that 6 to wound. That means any of those hits will make the claw do D3+1 damage, which is, on average, 3 damage vs 2. That's a 50% increase in damage.
The nurgle grinder can also benefit from the nurgle tree, letting you get all kinds of shennagins.
I hadn't considered the healing potential from nurgle, I only play plaguebearers and nurglings so I'm not looking to spend CP to get one back.
I find mine wrecks face if it's ignored but as soon as someone focuses down on it, it pops. Will proxy mine as nurgle and see how it runs.
Man, if I had the money for it, this would kick ass to run!
It really would. In a non-tournament setting, what would be the target priority on the 3 different bloodthirster types?
I'm assuming they'd all deploy as far forward as possible and go for that T2 charge. I'd expect at least 3 dead bloodthirsters by the time they make it, but that's ok because there will be 5 more ready to smash into their infantry screen.
If I were facing them, I’d probably go for the Insensate Ragers first. Every turn the infantry screen still exists is another turn of shooting at the steamroller.
I can see Skarbrand being a lynchpin. If he can get in there and force one of your screening units to stay in combat and get eaten in your turn, you’re in a LOT of trouble.
That's a good strategy, although the UFs' hitting power don't degrade from damage, so that's something to consider. As for Skarbrand, given his points cost, wouldn't adding him for you to remove two other models? I'm curious, what, if anything, would you put in place with the leftover points?
labmouse42 wrote: Today I ran a three round RTT in New England with some really great players there. It was educational, and I wanted to share some of my experiences with you all.
Nurgle I ran Sloppity and 2 squads of 30 plaguebearers. In no game was either squad completely wiped. They were brought down to 2-3 monsters in some games, but they always stuck around grabbing objectives and just being generally annoying.
They are really good units for general board control. I was able to use them to block off my entire deployment area in hammer and anvil to prevent deep strikers.
GUO This is a good unit that absorbed an incredible amount of firepower. I would often use the power that made him -1 to hit, and his warlord trait gave everyone with 7" another -1 to hit. Having a -2 to hit this guy was really clutch. In 2/3 of the games he died. In 2/3 of them, he also did a heck of a lot of damage, wiping out multiple units and ripping apart titiantic units. For 275 points, it's a good model.
Soul Grinders I ran three of them, and they were the MVPs of my games. For 180 points, they are just so darn resilient. They get 10 attacks in assault at full profile. The battlecannon and 3 shot autocannon shot are just so good. Sure they only hit on 5's when they move, but they can give a great threat zone. One of mine walked through a GSC army just tearing apart unit after unit. If you have not tried them, I suggest it.
Renegade Knight I took one of these with a reaper chainsword and avenger gatling cannon. It was fairly 'meh' and died quickly in 2/3 of the games. I took the model because I think it looked great, but I don't think I'l be taking it again. I could have used deep striking flamers for a better effect.
Nurglings If you are playing ITC, these guys are your engineers! Take 2 squads of them! Stick them in a building so they can't be seen, and let them just engineer away on an objective. One of my opponents used mortors to tag them from outside LoS (even when they were in a ruins with no doors) -- but in the other games they racked me up 4 points. Overall it merges very well with engineer.
Daemon Prince of Nurgle You should already know all about these guys. They hit hard, they fly fast. They are fairly vulnerable when they can be targeted.
The GSC was able to do some damage with snipers on him, doing 6 wounds. That kind of sucked.
In my game against 'Crons, he lived the entire game slashing away on a huge lord of war model.
Against the eldar, he was caught out of position and brought down with shuriken cats.
By now, you should know about these guys. They deliver as advertised. 180 points of face hitting goodness.
GSC This is an army to be really wary of. The guy I played with had 25 command points to start with. He got another 4 over the course of the game by using warlord traits.
He had tons of units, which let me get lots of kills against him. That's one weakness. He was able to deep strike some units with amazing synergy. He tore apart the knight like it was butter and did a number on many of the grinders.
Be careful of this list. I think the GSC is going to be a top tier list.
I like the idea of Soul Grinders but they really only seem to be good for Nurgle (which is why you took them I guess haha). I suppose Khorne could use them effectively too.
It would be great to have them advancing and charging with my Slaanesh Daemons but then the 2 guns are completely wasted. And frankly, I can get 2 exalted Chariots for 1 soul grinder (literally). I don’t think the Soul Grinder would be that much tougher... but would it be more killy is the debate I guess.
24 wounds vs 14, but less toughness. But the chariots are so much faster. And you get 16 attacks at full profile.. but at much lower strength.
Maybe the 3+ regular armor would make one or two worth it.
lindsay40k wrote: If I were facing (eight Bloodthirsters), I’d probably go for the Insensate Ragers first. Every turn the infantry screen still exists is another turn of shooting at the steamroller.
I can see Skarbrand being a lynchpin. If he can get in there and force one of your screening units to stay in combat and get eaten in your turn, you’re in a LOT of trouble.
That's a good strategy, although the UFs' hitting power don't degrade from damage, so that's something to consider. As for Skarbrand, given his points cost, wouldn't adding him for you to remove two other models? I'm curious, what, if anything, would you put in place with the leftover points?
Well yeah, Skar does disrupt this list concept, though he can bring along Karanak for DTW coverage and a Daemon Prince to give reroll aura & ensure Skullreaver doesn’t get nuked on turn one
Also: how do you mean UF’s hitting power doesn’t degrade from damage, it loses 2A each tier in my book?
lindsay40k wrote: If I were facing (eight Bloodthirsters), I’d probably go for the Insensate Ragers first. Every turn the infantry screen still exists is another turn of shooting at the steamroller.
I can see Skarbrand being a lynchpin. If he can get in there and force one of your screening units to stay in combat and get eaten in your turn, you’re in a LOT of trouble.
That's a good strategy, although the UFs' hitting power don't degrade from damage, so that's something to consider. As for Skarbrand, given his points cost, wouldn't adding him for you to remove two other models? I'm curious, what, if anything, would you put in place with the leftover points?
Well yeah, Skar does disrupt this list concept, though he can bring along Karanak for DTW coverage and a Daemon Prince to give reroll aura & ensure Skullreaver doesn’t get nuked on turn one
Also: how do you mean UF’s hitting power doesn’t degrade from damage, it loses 2A each tier in my book?
I was referring specifically to his weapon skill. And I like the Skarbrand/Karanak/DP for the aura, protection, and the simple sheer melee storm that it would be bring.
On another note, I played my first game the other day, and given my almost non-experience, I did quite well. I was playing against Drukhari, and was bulldozing their army, but my opponent won by seizing all of the objectives.
I've seen a few people mention mounted heralds of slaanesh - I've looked through the book many times but can't find the option. Could someone point me at the page number, or whatever other book it's in?
And along the same theme, where can I find the rules for the wrath and rapture slaanesh character?
I was looking at supplementing my CSM with wrath and rapture, but the gist of the last four pages are that crushers and friends aren't worth it... Is it a meta thing? I.e. their extra toughness is neutered by the weapons usually found, or is it a pure rules/balance problem?
I'm only ever going to play friendly games, so it's not entirely a deal breaker, but it would be nice to know they are not complete garbage...
edit: Along the same train of thought, how do seekers compare to fiends and deamonettes? The extra movement is huge for first turn charges on seekers over Daemonettes and they have fractionally more attacks per point. Along the same lines, fiends don't seem that bad...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 12:38:48
MrPieChee wrote: I've seen a few people mention mounted heralds of slaanesh - I've looked through the book many times but can't find the option. Could someone point me at the page number, or whatever other book it's in?
And along the same theme, where can I find the rules for the wrath and rapture slaanesh character?
I was looking at supplementing my CSM with wrath and rapture, but the gist of the last four pages are that crushers and friends aren't worth it... Is it a meta thing? I.e. their extra toughness is neutered by the weapons usually found, or is it a pure rules/balance problem?
I'm only ever going to play friendly games, so it's not entirely a deal breaker, but it would be nice to know they are not complete garbage...
edit: Along the same train of thought, how do seekers compare to fiends and deamonettes? The extra movement is huge for first turn charges on seekers over Daemonettes and they have fractionally more attacks per point. Along the same lines, fiends don't seem that bad...
They are an index option so not in codex but in index chaos. The enchantress has rules in the box or you could check out battlescribe. She's pretty good for anti psyker and summoning.
Fiends are definately worth it, their aura will tie up some massive shooting units. Bloodcrushers not so much. Too easy to kill with multi danage weapons for their cost unfortunately. But nothing is unplayable, just a poor comparison to bloodletters.
p5freak wrote: My chaos daemons codex has a herald of slaanesh on p.101.
Not a mounted one.
Index Heralds can use all the powers, Relics and Traits from the Codex, if they meet the requirements for same.
They can't use Slothful Claws because you have to swap Ravaging Claws for that and Index Heralds don't have Ravaging Claws, they have (D1) Piercing Claws.
p5freak wrote: My chaos daemons codex has a herald of slaanesh on p.101.
Not a mounted one.
Index Heralds can use all the powers, Relics and Traits from the Codex, if they meet the requirements for same.
They can't use Slothful Claws because you have to swap Ravaging Claws for that and Index Heralds don't have Ravaging Claws, they have (D1) Piercing Claws.
Thankfully what I predicted way back when this happened aligns with what seems to be happening. To diversify the range they took the mounted heralds out to introduce new versions, much like everyone else has. The Infernal Enrapturess is probably just out first. To line up with everyone else we'll one to two more I think? I forget what other herald versions everyone else has. So far we have the standard herald, the masque and the infernal enrapturess. Hopefully one of the new ones is mounted! Someone needs to keep up with our chariots and seekers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/21 12:53:37
That's where I was going - I want a character supporting fiends and seekers. The index mounted herald seems a bit pricey compared to the codex non-mounted herald...
I could run a prince, but he currently doesn't have wings, and I was planning on keeping him with a CSM detachment - a price leading a Daemon patrol isn't very fluffy! Haven't done the maths but I feel the price aura buff isn't as good...
MrPieChee wrote: That's where I was going - I want a character supporting fiends and seekers. The index mounted herald seems a bit pricey compared to the codex non-mounted herald...
I could run a prince, but he currently doesn't have wings, and I was planning on keeping him with a CSM detachment - a price leading a Daemon patrol isn't very fluffy! Haven't done the maths but I feel the price aura buff isn't as good...
Some Daemon Princes are from before Space Marines existed, so it isn't entirely unfluffy. For my Slaanesh force I have two Daemon Princes (Prince/Princess really)... though fluff wise they are from before Old Night and were lovers in their mortal lives, etc, etc haha.
Both the Prince buff and the Herald buff are useful but they do different things... but the +1 Str is probably more useful. Daemonettes wounding marines on 4s instead of 5s makes a good difference.
3500+
3300+
1000
1850
2000 
