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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

8d3 F5, -1 AP ,1 Damage hits hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's + 8 F8 -3Ap, +3 Damage hits hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's in a 9" move character with less than 10 wounds.

Thats nasty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 17:19:19


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Galas wrote:
8d3 F5, -1 AP ,1 Damage hits hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's + 8 F8 -3Ap, +3 Damage hits hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's in a 9" move character with less than 10 wounds.

Thats nasty.


It is... especially since he has no use (unless you want to be... excessive! ) for the usual DP warlord trait, which is extra attacks. Put Celerity on him/her/it/them (Syll) and you're moving a base 12", as fast as our chariots and enough to kind of keep up with fiends/seekers.

Unless it has a forced warlord trait I suppose... :( as some named characters do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 17:26:37


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





So Syll'Esske hits harder than just about any DP in any situation (exception is Skullreaver vs titanic). 8x S8 flat 3 attacks followed by 8-24x S5 attacks is bananas. Should give Slaanesh daemons a nice boost.

I'm not sure how well he fits into the current competitive daemons meta though. Yes he hits a lot harder than a DP but he is also a little squishier, and can only achieve maximum value if he can get into combat with 2 different units. That last part would be pretty straightforward for a competitive player to counter: just keep your dudes spaced out so he doesn't get to swing a second time. In that situation, he'd delete a single hard target, or he'd clear a single screen, then get blown up the next turn, which is roughly what a regular DP will accomplish for (probably?) less points.

So the main advantage seems to be the flexibility afforded by his awesome screen-clearing potential, his massive number of S8 flat 3 attacks, and the 2-for-1 herald/DP auras in a single unit which saves an HQ slot.

What do you guys think?

--- 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Why he needs to attack two units? It does not say he needs to attack two DIFFERENT units.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




They *can* target separately, but dont have to.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





That's how he achieves maximum value. He wants to swing at a blob of chaff and a high toughness hard target in one combat phase.

If he only swings at one of those things in a single round of combat, then he's doing roughly the same thing that a daemon prince does, albeit slightly better.

--- 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Malus Dei

The Prince is nice, it's a great hammer. Easily taking the spot of my 2nd Daemon Prince and filling out my list as a 4th herald as well.

The sleepers are the other things, like that psychic buffer/denier and it takes MW's on 2's That thing is an automatic MW sponge, and can constantly cast -1 Ldrship bubble, so its 3d6 holding you in combat is almost always guaranteed. Phenominal stuff and I'm glad I play Slaanesh daemons.

Thy Mum 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






The extra good thing is that unlike Fiends, it can hold units that can fly in place. So now we have multiple ways to keep units stuck in combat.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Gift of Power looks good. Epitome running forwards T1 will put out solid DTW coverage, has a 17% chance of D6 Smite, doesn’t care about Perils, and has a situational tarpit ability. Hopefully Delightful Agonies will get fixed. Nice synergy with Enrapturess, too.

Syll’eske looks amazing. 16 attacks?!? Except it’s not 16, it’s more like 24. Characters with modest screens will fear them. M9 is pretty good on a W9 monster.

New KoS is pretty much what we expected. Access to shield and even more healing, and as fast as a Fiend... could be pretty epic.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






What is DTW?

Nevermind i figured it out

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 21:43:00


 
   
Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior





+2 speed and no -Strength on keeper of secrets damage chart is going to be nice.

though im curious to see how much these buffs are going to cost us in points.

"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost" 
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





I'll be honest keeper of secrets being good depends 100% on what the shield or the whip does, because no matter how choppy it is, it will just get shot off the table with only having a 5++ before it can ever dream of reaching melee.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/23 22:27:05


 
   
Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior





i hope the whip is good, since most of my third party KOS are armed with whips.

i wouldnt be surprised if the shield ended up something like +1 invulnerable saves in melee


"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost" 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 warmaster21 wrote:
i hope the whip is good, since most of my third party KOS are armed with whips.

i wouldnt be surprised if the shield ended up something like +1 invulnerable saves in melee



Do you hope to whip it? And whip it good?

Couldn’t help myself, sorry.
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Makes my Zarakynel mini a whole lot more useable.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Man, I'm pumped about Epitome. I have plans to kill some fliers with it!

Any flier without a hover style rule will die. Get Epitome within 6", have a unit get into combat with the flier - either directly by charging or indirectly by charging into another unit and piling into it. Then, when it fails morale, it dies due to not moving its minimum distance. Makes for an easy kill.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Is that even a thing? What flyer doesn’t have a hover mode that is actually used?
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is that even a thing? What flyer doesn’t have a hover mode that is actually used?

A ruling on Skarbrand confirmed that ‘die if you don’t move’ + ‘not allowed to fall back’ = death.

It’s buried in our Index FAQ, along with a spectacularly important revised ruling on Warptime that’s not been corrected in the CSM 8.2.0 Codex. I dunno if this is a general issue, or if Chaos has a particular problem with bad collating & compiling; if anyone’s got any cause to email the FAQs team, it’s probably worth a mention.

As for which aircraft are susceptible - all three of the Craftworld plastic planes lack hover mode. So, not exactly an empty niche.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/24 03:17:33


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I believed you on the ruling. Makes total sense. Just didn’t think any plane lacked a hover capability. Happy to be wrong! Haha!

And it’s Eldar, even better.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Necrons also fall into that category. I believe that Orks do as well.

Even if the opponent flier can hover it allows you the opportunity to sink in more of your units into it.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Eagerly anticipating the ponts cost of the Keeper of Secrets. Knowing GW it will have gone up to the same level as the other Greater Daemons, which would be a shame, but oh well. Sure, it's vulnerabtle to being shot, which is why you take other big targets as well for saturation.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





JakeSiren wrote:
Man, I'm pumped about Epitome. I have plans to kill some fliers with it!

Any flier without a hover style rule will die. Get Epitome within 6", have a unit get into combat with the flier - either directly by charging or indirectly by charging into another unit and piling into it. Then, when it fails morale, it dies due to not moving its minimum distance. Makes for an easy kill.


Does slaanesh have much LD debuffs to make it so easy? Necron flyers have LD10 so 1/12 chance of failing it without debuffs.

Plus what units with fly slaanesh has to even charge into flyer?

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






tneva82 wrote:
JakeSiren wrote:
Man, I'm pumped about Epitome. I have plans to kill some fliers with it!

Any flier without a hover style rule will die. Get Epitome within 6", have a unit get into combat with the flier - either directly by charging or indirectly by charging into another unit and piling into it. Then, when it fails morale, it dies due to not moving its minimum distance. Makes for an easy kill.


Does slaanesh have much LD debuffs to make it so easy? Necron flyers have LD10 so 1/12 chance of failing it without debuffs.

Plus what units with fly slaanesh has to even charge into flyer?


If they ever fix the FW models points, Zarak has a built in -2 LD buff. We also have a psychic power that is a -1 LD debuff. It'll mainly be an annoyance for everything and its mother that has a LD of 7 and 8.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/24 12:14:52


 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




tneva82 wrote:
JakeSiren wrote:
Man, I'm pumped about Epitome. I have plans to kill some fliers with it!

Any flier without a hover style rule will die. Get Epitome within 6", have a unit get into combat with the flier - either directly by charging or indirectly by charging into another unit and piling into it. Then, when it fails morale, it dies due to not moving its minimum distance. Makes for an easy kill.


Does slaanesh have much LD debuffs to make it so easy? Necron flyers have LD10 so 1/12 chance of failing it without debuffs.

Plus what units with fly slaanesh has to even charge into flyer?


Necrons need to roll lower than 10 on 3d6 which is a ~37.5% chance of passing. Debuffing them by even 1 puts it to ~26% of escaping, or the other way, a ~74% chance of being destroyed!

In terms of making it into combat with the flier, you don't need to change it. You can string out a unit of Daemonettes and use pile in / consolidate to get within 1" of enemy fliers.

*Edit*
In terms of additional units that can debuff leadership there is:
Be'lakor (12" bubble)
Nurgle Artefact: The Entropic Knell (7" bubble)
Phantasmagoria (12" bubble)

If you stacked these three together a leadership 10 model would only have a ~9.26% chance of escaping, anything leadership 7 would effectively be stuck as they only have a ~0.46% chance to escape (3 1's)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/24 12:56:07


 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Heretic Astartes with the Night Lord trait and/or Heretic Astartes Raptors also have Ld debuffs.

Pretty sure Furies can FLY and can now, for some reason, be SLAANESH. No idea if you could tar-pit a Flyer with them.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So the new Prince + Herald combo is insane, right? 8 attacks with that axe, plus 8 attacks with the whip that turn into D3 swings each (rolling these attacks is going to be annoying) for a possible 32 attack rolls per Fight Phase already seems silly. But since some people were talking about using the Slaanesh warlord trait to boost it's movement up to 12" like a flying DP, I thought about looking at other options.

Murderdance adds +D3 to the warlord's attack characteristic on a turn in which they charge....so on average you're looking at +2 axe swings and +4 whip attacks, but it could be anything from 1-3 axe swings and 1-9 whip attacks. Interesting.

Fatal Caress causes wound rolls of 6+ to inflict a mortal wound in addition to your damage. If the Prince averages 24 attacks without other boosts, that's almost 4 mortal wounds per Fight Phase.

and then we dip into Stratagems....

Locus of Grace. For 1 command point, every friendly Slaanesh Daemon within 6" of the chosen character gets to make an additional attack every time it rolls a 6+ to wound. And given the ruling on Mortarion with Silence, each time you proc that effect with the whips, it turns into another D3 attacks. So without other boosts, this would look to have your Combo Prince swinging about 10 times with the axe, and about 21 times with the whip per Fight Phase, on average.

Assuming the Combo doesn't have an assigned warlord trait and you can combine Murderdance with the stratagem, The Lord of the Dance (TM) should average about 11.5 axe swings and around 27 whip attacks per turn. I think the Chainlord and Flawless Host Prince have some real competition.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





JakeSiren wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
JakeSiren wrote:
Man, I'm pumped about Epitome. I have plans to kill some fliers with it!

Any flier without a hover style rule will die. Get Epitome within 6", have a unit get into combat with the flier - either directly by charging or indirectly by charging into another unit and piling into it. Then, when it fails morale, it dies due to not moving its minimum distance. Makes for an easy kill.


Does slaanesh have much LD debuffs to make it so easy? Necron flyers have LD10 so 1/12 chance of failing it without debuffs.

Plus what units with fly slaanesh has to even charge into flyer?


Necrons need to roll lower than 10 on 3d6 which is a ~37.5% chance of passing. Debuffing them by even 1 puts it to ~26% of escaping, or the other way, a ~74% chance of being destroyed!

In terms of making it into combat with the flier, you don't need to change it. You can string out a unit of Daemonettes and use pile in / consolidate to get within 1" of enemy fliers.

*Edit*
In terms of additional units that can debuff leadership there is:
Be'lakor (12" bubble)
Nurgle Artefact: The Entropic Knell (7" bubble)
Phantasmagoria (12" bubble)

If you stacked these three together a leadership 10 model would only have a ~9.26% chance of escaping, anything leadership 7 would effectively be stuck as they only have a ~0.46% chance to escape (3 1's)


Okay had missed that 3d6 thingie...Certainly puts new spin on the thing! Remains to be seen how mobile that thing is. 6" isn't particularly long so if that's not fast(doesn't look like fast but who knows with slaanesh) it's hard.

Orks and necrons at least benefit from their fliers not having to be close to do their job. The eldar hemlocks could hate these things though.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






The new DP moves at 9", standard heralds move 7". I don't see it moving less than 7" and advancing it won't matter. I think it will be sufficiently speedy. If it's moving 9" like the Prince... oh boy.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





If it's slaanesh terrain piece like others have been getting it would be first with m value. And it's giant statue on which 2 figures are standing so only "it's magic" explains moving ability

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





until you know model's point and complete wargear profiles there is not reallylot to say, a model isn't good or bad just with a profile/rules, is for example that kind of herald/prince cost, ie 300+pts, it's useless. That just to make example, Kos.... great model good rules, but no way a model like that can get into melee quick enough before being crippled (14" but lack of fly is a huge handicap, you just need 10 Imperial guard and she waste a charge) or you must rely on a 9" inch charge after Ds

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/24 15:13:15


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