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this is the monoslaanesh i played at final league tournament (NO ITC rules, but CA 2018 missions) 48 players ,with a good 9th place, I faced IG (3 tank commander, pask 3 hellhounds 90 coscripts) won 20-0, demons+ts (5 psykers and 90 plaguebearers) won 12-8, orks (220 models 25 lootas) lost 6-14, eldar+ynnari (10 reapers 10 bikes 3 waves and various infantry) won 14-6, tyranids (swarmlord OOE 80 raptors) won 16-4
as said before 1 prince can be changed with new herald/Dp
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/05/01 23:07:44
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Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
blackmage wrote: this is the monoslaanesh i played at final league tournament (NO ITC rules, but CA 2018 missions) 48 players ,with a good 9th place, I faced IG (3 tank commander, pask 3 hellhounds 90 coscripts) won 20-0, demons+ts (5 psykers and 90 plaguebearers) won 12-8, orks (220 models 25 lootas) lost 6-14, eldar+ynnari (10 reapers 10 bikes 3 waves and various infantry) won 14-6, tyranids (swarmlord OOE 80 raptors) won 16-4
Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
Good sizes for bloodletters bombs:
15 bloodletters: minimum number, enough kill power to wipe backfield units, characters, and generally still be considered a big threat
20 bloodletters: best for saving 1 cp on denizens of the warp, has significantly more damage if none die in overwatch
23-25 bloodletters: uses more cp but has a good chance of staying above 20 models and doing significant damage
30 bloodetters: maximum damage, generally overkill for most targets, good if you have cp to spare for auto-passing morale after they get blown to pieces on the following turn
Never take bloodletters without banner/deep strike and never take minimum size units of bloodletters. Instruments are ok as extra insurance for your 3D6 charge but usually you won't need them. 3D6 is plenty.
A nice Khorne patrol detachment is 1 skullreaver DP and 1 bloodletter bomb. I wouldn't take multiple units of bloodletters because you only need one to force your opponent to screen and having more than one doesn't help you in that scenario. If I wanted a cheap battalion I'd take a mixed daemons detachment of 2x10 brimstones, 2 DPs or a DP/herald of your choice, and the bloodletter bomb.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/05/03 05:21:51
Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
You could use a chaos undivided battalion with pink horrors, brimstones, bloodletters, and 2 HQs, like daemon prince of tzeentch, fluxmaster, changecaster, a khorne character. Or a khorne patrol with one HQ and bloodletters. The HQ would provide the ability to re-roll failed charges, when he deepstrikes with the bloodletters.
So what are people thinking about Syll’Esske now that he is out? Is there any special type of list he works better in? My thinking was to just have him run up the field with 3 fiends and 3 venom crawlers from marines and make a pressure force that demands my opponents attention, but how would you run him in a pure demons force? Is he just an auto replacement for a normal deamon prince?
Azuza001 wrote: So what are people thinking about Syll’Esske now that he is out? Is there any special type of list he works better in? My thinking was to just have him run up the field with 3 fiends and 3 venom crawlers from marines and make a pressure force that demands my opponents attention, but how would you run him in a pure demons force? Is he just an auto replacement for a normal deamon prince?
I don’t think they’re an *auto* replace for a 12+3” flying DP. Rather different units. In pure Daemons, I suspect they’ll have synergy with a Nurgle battalion that can use Nurglings to goad units forwards into 9”+Advance+charge range.
Looks fun. That's a lot of daemonettes. How many daemon troops do you own??
Also what is a tyranid raptor? Did you mean 80 genestealers?
yes i meant genestealers, i own tons of demons, 90 demonettes, 120 plaguebearers, 40 pink horrors, 15 nurgling bases, 60 bloodletters, more or less all HQ and at many other demons, i play them since 5th editions.
In ETC format, which heavily rely on CA2018 missions (objective progressive control), you need lot of troops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 14:56:44
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Excommunicatus wrote: My plans for Syll'Esske are to give it Celerity, surround it with Seekers and Fiends and run at them, shouting.
Syllesske is forced to take the bewitching aura for its warlord trait. I view this as just fine because the full datasheet shows it has a regal authority ability to allow Slaanesh units to reroll any morale roll. Perfect for big blobs of Daemonettes.
Also, there have been some more unboxings of the Contorted Epitome and GW forgot to add points values for 40k. It says “refer to your codex”. Wtf
Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 15:51:38
So it's more of a mixed Chaos option, but I'm thinking that a Renegade Knight might be the best option for anyone wanting to take a Keeper in their army. It's a large and durable enough fire magnet to allow the Keeper to look less threatening, provides some much needed range support to the army and can bring some anti-air options as well (considering how common the fly keyword is these days there's never a reason not to have some anti-fly options either).
Downside is that it breaks the monobuild and even if you go for the biggest and best options it doesn't compete with the loyalist knights (plus you can't give it the Daemon keyword by making it possessed or give it a Mark to align it with any of the gods).
Syll'Esske is definitely a great support HQ for the army and can do some good work. The lack of wings is the only thing really hurting the model since it means we can't be as mobile as we'd like to be.
Contorted Epitomes is definitely pretty good all around, even if you take it mainly as a denial unit, since you can lock enemy models into combat with it to let you do more damage without getting shot, and I feel like it pairs well with the harp for screwing over enemy psykers. No idea on cost though. If it's another 200+ point HQ choice I wouldn't take more than one in an army.
slave.entity wrote: Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
Syll'esske can deliver quite more damage than any demon codexDp (beside korne Dp) lack of fly is pretty huge consider the new fly faq, for me he can have a place in a slaanesh based demon list, you have herald+dp for 210pt.
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Syllesske is forced to take the bewitching aura for its warlord trait. I view this as just fine because the full datasheet shows it has a regal authority ability to allow Slaanesh units to reroll any morale roll. Perfect for big blobs of Daemonettes.
Also, there have been some more unboxings of the Contorted Epitome and GW forgot to add points values for 40k. It says “refer to your codex”. Wtf
It's truly amazing what Syll'Esske does for Daemonette blobs. Providing 4 different auras: +1 strength, re-rolling 1's to hit, re-rolling morale, and providing Advance and Charge. Or five auras if taken as a warlord for: forcing -1 attack on enemies within 6". All for 30 pts more than a winged Daemon Prince and 30 pts less that a Keeper of Secrets.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
What really makes the Mirror powerful is its synergy with the Infernal Enrapturess and Fiends. It's going to hard for enemy Psykers to stay out of range on those de-buffs given the mobility of those units. Then it providing an additional means of holding units including flyers in combat.
Ok, so put it with the Chariots and run at them, shouting. Daemonettes are too slow for Syll'Esske, IMO.
Well taking instruments on the Daemonettes does boost them slightly, and it is allot of ablative wounds. The Infernal Enrapturess and Masque running up the middle with a Syll'Esske and a horde seems pretty powerful and will definitely draw attention. I'd run the Mirror along with Seeker Chariots and Hellflayers instead.
Speaking of which both the Hellflayer, and Exalted Seeker Chariot are all just gone from the GW website. Not, unavailable or out of stock the pages and links are just gone. For the 40K side even the basic Seeker Chariots gone. Now we know they all got new rules in the Hedonite battletome so its probably just a re-boxing. But what are the odds we get updated chariot rules and the three Herald chariot variants ported over to 40K? That could be interesting. If only they'd let us take take chariots in cavalcades of three again I have 14 of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 19:18:14
slave.entity wrote: Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
Syll'esske can deliver quite more damage than any demon codexDp (beside korne Dp) lack of fly is pretty huge consider the new fly faq, for me he can have a place in a slaanesh based demon list, you have herald+dp for 210pt.
Yeah Syll'Esske is essentially the Skullreaver Khorne DP except for hordes instead of titanic. I like this a comparison a lot. It's a very cool niche for a unit.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
What really makes the Mirror powerful is its synergy with the Infernal Enrapturess and Fiends. It's going to hard for enemy Psykers to stay out of range on those de-buffs given the mobility of those units. Then it providing an additional means of holding units including flyers in combat.
Ok, so put it with the Chariots and run at them, shouting. Daemonettes are too slow for Syll'Esske, IMO.
Well taking instruments on the Daemonettes does boost them slightly, and it is allot of ablative wounds. The Infernal Enrapturess and Masque running up the middle with a Syll'Esske and a horde seems pretty powerful and will definitely draw attention. I'd run the Mirror along with Seeker Chariots and Hellflayers instead.
Speaking of which both the Hellflayer, and Exalted Seeker Chariot are all just gone from the GW website. Not, unavailable or out of stock the pages and links are just gone. For the 40K side even the basic Seeker Chariots gone. Now we know they all got new rules in the Hedonite battletome so its probably just a re-boxing. But what are the odds we get updated chariot rules and the three Herald chariot variants ported over to 40K? That could be interesting. If only they'd let us take take chariots in cavalcades of three again I have 14 of them.
I wish that was the case too, but I suspect it's just a re-boxing like you said. The fact the start collecting box, with the chariot, is still on the UK site indicates as such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/04 09:11:08
ClockworkZion wrote: There should be points on its datadheet but I have yet to see that bottom part so no idea.
They made an error and didn’t include points. At the top it says “refer to your codex for the full rules” aka - points.
Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page has responded to me though and said they’ve bumped it up to the team and will respond ASAP on Fb when they get word on this.
However, between this and what my store manager said today he basically confirmed an EC release being inbound.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/04 16:56:54
ClockworkZion wrote: There should be points on its datadheet but I have yet to see that bottom part so no idea.
They made an error and didn’t include points. At the top it says “refer to your codex for the full rules” aka - points.
Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page has responded to me though and said they’ve bumped it up to the team and will respond ASAP on Fb when they get word on this.
However, between this and what my store manager said today he basically confirmed an EC release being inbound.
While I welcome EC and the new Renegade Knight thing, I feel like the refer to your codex thing means when it went off for boxing they hadn't finished playtesting it yet and decided to assign points in Daemons 2.0 only to bump up the release due to the Aid schedule and now we're in limbo roght now while we wait.
Figured this was a good place to share some more detailed analysis of the mono-Slaanesh options after doing a write up for WarhammerCompetive on Reddit:
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and taking wverything into consideration I'm going to toss out my own notes regarding Mono-Slaanesh.
But before we go there, there seems to be a small problem regarding the Contorted Epitome: it lacks a points cost and says to refer to the codex instead.
My only guess is that means play testing wasn't complete when the box was being finalized which means we'll likely see it in a 2.0 codex update in the semi-near future. In the meantime some folks have contacted the Facebook team who are reaching out to the rules team for a points cost.
Which means the best psyker option we have is temporarily unplayable using matched play points. Not good.
Moving on to less depressing thoughts, the Keeper (this includes Helbane as well) suffers the same short comings the other Greater Daemons do: a lack of an improved invuls save versus what Heralds have, a model size that makes them impressive to look at but hard to hide from Line of Sight, a lack of options to increase durability versus shooting, and generally they just aren't that good for their points value. The ways around this for a pure Slaanesh daemons is to either take multiples to dilute incoming firepower, or run a character up to the mid-board (preferably into cover somewhere) and then throw a bunch of CP at summoning on turn 2 since we actually have a reasonable shot at summoning and can position the Greater Darmon into charge range.
Naturally the Enrapturess fits the bill for doing this thanks to her bonuses, but a Chariot Herald from the index may be worth considering due to the increased movement range and higher durability.
For mixed Chaos lists I feel pairing a Keeper with a knight (namely a ranged one) makes the most sense since the Knight will generally draw more firepower onto it and can do a fair bit of work supportiing the army.
Syll'Esske is a natural favorite of most players bases on lore and looks, and the stacking bubbles makes them a good escort character for large hordes of things. I lean a bit more towards escorting Daemonettes though as they can pair with the Masque to get the Daemonette protection buff in melee thanks to also being a Daemonette. Either way they're best used to either heroically intervene when something they're escorting charges, or counter charging since we lack ways to effectively protect such a tall model from Overwatch.
The Infernal Enrapturess has two strengths worth taking her for (three if you want to summon a Keeper): she can bring back dead daemons, and she messes with enemy psykers. Quite honestly I'd rather use her over the classic Herald since she brings the same aura effects the Heralds do (since she is on) but adds in some much needed ranged support (worth taking her over a herald for that along, but not worth taking her in general), healing and psyker protection. Basically I'm saying I plan to take at least 2 at 2k.
Daemon Princes with Wings are definitely back. With restrictions keeping us at only have 3 in an army unless we summon more don't count on going crazy with allies. Due to character targetting they're best with a fast unit (Fiends have my vote since they have a lot of solid support bonuses) so they can safely run up the board before using their escort to run into your opponent's screen while they try to get into contact with the unit behind the screen. Basically an option worth taking at least one of in any competetive army.
The Contorted Epitome is another "take at least one of" choice for the faction due to combination of a solid character profile, good psyker bonuses, the ability to help lock units in combat, and a strong defence against Mortal Wounds (throw one at a Black Legion Chainlord and laugh as they struggle to kill you character). Running at least 200 points (likely more) I don't think most people will be running more than 2 in a list, but one is definitely a good choice.
With indexes being phased out I won't speak of the chariot Heralds, but with luck we'll get them back when we see the next Daemons update.
Fiends are naturally still an excellent unit option as they can support any character, work as a fast moving support unit assassin and can hold things in combat for us. Definitely worth taking.
Daemonettes are our greatest weakness however. Lacking the defense of Nurgle (who can now match our speed with the right options), the psychic options or troll factormof Tzeentch or ths ability to tear things in half like Khorne these girls need support to function effectively. Either go MSU and use units of ten to hold objectives or go big and try and get the extra attacks while getting buffs from our HQs.
Seekers are another unit that is currently rather underwhelming, but has speed to get into position and hit smaller units with some level of effectiveness. Just don't think they can take dedicated combat units out and you'll be fine.
Hellflayers are my preferred recommendation for the Fast Attack slot though. They're cheaper, have more wounds, less prone to worrying about their morale and can do mortal wounds. Basically just take these instead.
Seeker Chariots are much like Seekers: just okay. Their greatest advantage is being cheap which helps for building mono Slaanesh brigades, but I recommend using the extra 30 points per model to just take Exalted Seeker Chatiots instead due to being a large improvement for a pittance of points.
Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/05 07:45:44
Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
You can see Ahriman in almost every competitive Chaos list. A default SuperCo detc of TSons is Ahriman and two talon-DPs.
Fewer and fewer lists have Magnus today. If a shooty opponent is prepared to fight a knight, usually he could also delete Magnus in one turn.
Figured this was a good place to share some more detailed analysis of the mono-Slaanesh options after doing a write up for WarhammerCompetive on Reddit:
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and taking wverything into consideration I'm going to toss out my own notes regarding Mono-Slaanesh.
But before we go there, there seems to be a small problem regarding the Contorted Epitome: it lacks a points cost and says to refer to the codex instead.
My only guess is that means play testing wasn't complete when the box was being finalized which means we'll likely see it in a 2.0 codex update in the semi-near future. In the meantime some folks have contacted the Facebook team who are reaching out to the rules team for a points cost.
Which means the best psyker option we have is temporarily unplayable using matched play points. Not good.
Moving on to less depressing thoughts, the Keeper (this includes Helbane as well) suffers the same short comings the other Greater Daemons do: a lack of an improved invuls save versus what Heralds have, a model size that makes them impressive to look at but hard to hide from Line of Sight, a lack of options to increase durability versus shooting, and generally they just aren't that good for their points value. The ways around this for a pure Slaanesh daemons is to either take multiples to dilute incoming firepower, or run a character up to the mid-board (preferably into cover somewhere) and then throw a bunch of CP at summoning on turn 2 since we actually have a reasonable shot at summoning and can position the Greater Darmon into charge range.
Naturally the Enrapturess fits the bill for doing this thanks to her bonuses, but a Chariot Herald from the index may be worth considering due to the increased movement range and higher durability.
For mixed Chaos lists I feel pairing a Keeper with a knight (namely a ranged one) makes the most sense since the Knight will generally draw more firepower onto it and can do a fair bit of work supportiing the army.
Syll'Esske is a natural favorite of most players bases on lore and looks, and the stacking bubbles makes them a good escort character for large hordes of things. I lean a bit more towards escorting Daemonettes though as they can pair with the Masque to get the Daemonette protection buff in melee thanks to also being a Daemonette. Either way they're best used to either heroically intervene when something they're escorting charges, or counter charging since we lack ways to effectively protect such a tall model from Overwatch.
The Infernal Enrapturess has two strengths worth taking her for (three if you want to summon a Keeper): she can bring back dead daemons, and she messes with enemy psykers. Quite honestly I'd rather use her over the classic Herald since she brings the same aura effects the Heralds do (since she is on) but adds in some much needed ranged support (worth taking her over a herald for that along, but not worth taking her in general), healing and psyker protection. Basically I'm saying I plan to take at least 2 at 2k.
Daemon Princes with Wings are definitely back. With restrictions keeping us at only have 3 in an army unless we summon more don't count on going crazy with allies. Due to character targetting they're best with a fast unit (Fiends have my vote since they have a lot of solid support bonuses) so they can safely run up the board before using their escort to run into your opponent's screen while they try to get into contact with the unit behind the screen. Basically an option worth taking at least one of in any competetive army.
The Contorted Epitome is another "take at least one of" choice for the faction due to combination of a solid character profile, good psyker bonuses, the ability to help lock units in combat, and a strong defence against Mortal Wounds (throw one at a Black Legion Chainlord and laugh as they struggle to kill you character). Running at least 200 points (likely more) I don't think most people will be running more than 2 in a list, but one is definitely a good choice.
With indexes being phased out I won't speak of the chariot Heralds, but with luck we'll get them back when we see the next Daemons update.
Fiends are naturally still an excellent unit option as they can support any character, work as a fast moving support unit assassin and can hold things in combat for us. Definitely worth taking.
Daemonettes are our greatest weakness however. Lacking the defense of Nurgle (who can now match our speed with the right options), the psychic options or troll factormof Tzeentch or ths ability to tear things in half like Khorne these girls need support to function effectively. Either go MSU and use units of ten to hold objectives or go big and try and get the extra attacks while getting buffs from our HQs.
Seekers are another unit that is currently rather underwhelming, but has speed to get into position and hit smaller units with some level of effectiveness. Just don't think they can take dedicated combat units out and you'll be fine.
Hellflayers are my preferred recommendation for the Fast Attack slot though. They're cheaper, have more wounds, less prone to worrying about their morale and can do mortal wounds. Basically just take these instead.
Seeker Chariots are much like Seekers: just okay. Their greatest advantage is being cheap which helps for building mono Slaanesh brigades, but I recommend using the extra 30 points per model to just take Exalted Seeker Chatiots instead due to being a large improvement for a pittance of points.
I don't think that the Epitome is more than 200 points. Syll'eskee is 210 and has powerlevel 11. The Epitome has only PL 10. I know GW did some strange PL to points conversions in the past, but I think it is safe to say that it will cost at least less than our tag team.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
