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Worth noting that CSM DP’s have got Space Marine training, and instead of first striking and a Locus of charging after advancing, get +1A on the charge and a Legion trait for being in a pure detachment, plus access to different relics and a Hereticus spell

Flawless Host in particular have the ability to become an absolute blender

Yeah, I'm thinking that the legion abilities are probably going to work out better. I forgot about Flawless Host but that is certainly worth bearing in mind

I don't have any cultist models though, and I feel like the Flawless Host would have a better class of degenerates than the standard 'burly bloke with spiked club'. Maybe some Daughters of Khaine or something would work

Don’t forget that Cultists don’t get Legion stuff - they’re just mortals.

FH Possessed have interestIng potential, and Slaanesh are a good melee Daemonkin alignment.

Yeah, I wasn't really looking to create a split CSM / Daemon army, just wanted to see if it was worth throwing some cheap cultists in as a tax to allow me to use the CSM Daemon Prince rules. I reckon Hateful Assault alone probably makes it worth doing. The cultists can go die on an objective somewhere

With 9ed’s changes to CP inbound, I wouldn’t invest in a new faction’s CP battery. Wait and see how a CSP DP fits in your army with the new structure

I wasn't sure if I should post it here or in the CSM thread but I need some advice on summoning daemons. The army I'm building is primarily a Word Bearer CSM list but with a sizable chunk of points allocated to a Slaanesh Daemons detachment because they are so damn cool. I was considering leaving some points open instead and just summon the daemons I need instead but I'm not sure the best way.

There is just regular summoning which can be boosted with a stratagem.

There is the Master of Possession who can summon with a power, that sounds good since you can advance turn 1 and still drop stuff but obviously costs extra points and the other abilities don't seem super useful.

Then there's the idea of taking a supreme command with 3 Infernal Enrapuress or two with a herald for the +3 Summoning.


Any advice? Is it worth dedicating the points to the characters or better to stay basic?

Yziel wrote:
I wasn't sure if I should post it here or in the CSM thread but I need some advice on summoning daemons. The army I'm building is primarily a Word Bearer CSM list but with a sizable chunk of points allocated to a Slaanesh Daemons detachment because they are so damn cool. I was considering leaving some points open instead and just summon the daemons I need instead but I'm not sure the best way.

There is just regular summoning which can be boosted with a stratagem.

There is the Master of Possession who can summon with a power, that sounds good since you can advance turn 1 and still drop stuff but obviously costs extra points and the other abilities don't seem super useful.

Then there's the idea of taking a supreme command with 3 Infernal Enrapuress or two with a herald for the +3 Summoning.


Any advice? Is it worth dedicating the points to the characters or better to stay basic?

Word Bearer who really wants summoning to be viable, here.

Don’t bother with it with Summoning in its present form.

The Daemonic Possession strat is a brilliant asset that requires your army to contain a CD detachment. The Locus of Swiftness is an incredibly powerful asset for a Daemonkin force. A Slaaneshi SC is definitely a viable way to add these, but I’d recommend a variety of heroes in it - the Contorted Epitome is brilliant in general, and a hard counter to niche Smite lists.

Slaaneshi Daemons are all about using that Swiftness for running fast into easy charge range, creating them over 9” away means they usually fail their charges. So even if a summon is doable, it’s usually better to have deployed the unit at the start of the game.

A WB MoP does have unique summoning capability. It is best employed to advance him forwards and drop a super tough distraction in your opponent’s face that’s usually too slow to get there in time - usually Beasts of Nurgle, or a GUO or Soulgrinder - or a horde of Pink Horrors that don’t want to lose firepower to advancing or losing first turn. Even then, it’s still a gimmick that’s easily shut down by common anti psyker Strategems or DS blockers.

Yziel wrote:

Any advice? Is it worth dedicating the points to the characters or better to stay basic?

Wait until june 6th, when engine war is released. Chaos daemons will get new rules, and the summoning rules may change.

I'm still pretty much a beginner myself but from what I have heard, summining is generally pretty bad. It has a lot of drawbacks and doesn't really give you any advantages, especially with the likes of Slaanesh daemons that have great mobility anyway. It is safer and more convenient to just start them on the table, or to pay command points to warp them in.

Summoning can be useful if you have unaligned characters who can summon daemons from any dark god based on your current needs but otherwise it is usually just an unecessary hassle.

So what are we expecting from Engine War?

Hopefully some better spells? And reasons to use non-troops units from the daemons book?

I'm hoping Pink and Blue Horrors get a brotherhood of sorcerer like ability. While I hope that summoning gets a AoS like mechanic, I imagine that will not be coming until 9th Edition. I also really hope we can dust off our greater daemons for a change (that aren't Slaneshi). Anything beyond that and some decent reprints of other factions' stratagems seems unlikely.

 slave.entity wrote:
So what are we expecting from Engine War?

Hopefully some better spells? And reasons to use non-troops units from the daemons book?

I expect nothing good. 3 pages of new rules for each god is ridiculous, 2 pages are for the exalted daemon, leaving 1 page for new rules like stratagems, loci, etc.

I just want flesh hounds, plague drones and screamers to be worth considering again. And if we’re wish listing I want a damn Nurgle herald on a plague drone that we’ve been crying about for all these years. And in general just bring some flavor back to the army. In 6th and 7th, despite their flaws, daemons struck me as having some of the fluffiest rules on the table top whereas throughout 8th they’ve been one of the most boring factions.

In AoS they have stuff like Depravity Points to make things a little more interesting. I don't see them actually implementing any new systems like that though.

I was hoping to see a demons preview from warhammer community today. Not sure if they are maybe waiting till next week.

Anyone else excited to see what we get?

 p5freak wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
So what are we expecting from Engine War?

Hopefully some better spells? And reasons to use non-troops units from the daemons book?

I expect nothing good. 3 pages of new rules for each god is ridiculous, 2 pages are for the exalted daemon, leaving 1 page for new rules like stratagems, loci, etc.

Do we have an idea of what an "exalted daemon" is? Because man, if it's just a more expensive greater daemon that will be a let down.

weaver9 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
So what are we expecting from Engine War?

Hopefully some better spells? And reasons to use non-troops units from the daemons book?

I expect nothing good. 3 pages of new rules for each god is ridiculous, 2 pages are for the exalted daemon, leaving 1 page for new rules like stratagems, loci, etc.

Do we have an idea of what an "exalted daemon" is? Because man, if it's just a more expensive greater daemon that will be a let down.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/29/new-rules-for-chaos-daemons/

It's a greater daemon with a Tank Ace-style skill. Some of them might be super good, some of them less so.

Huh, Engine War not looking great for daemons so far. Pretty much what I expected.

That damage boost to Flamers looks nice.

 slave.entity wrote:
Huh, Engine War not looking great for daemons so far. Pretty much what I expected.

For 1CP GD's can be upgraded and have a possible 6 choices of new abilities, 1 of each was only shown so 5 more we don't know.

Fleshhounds for 1CP get faster being able to advance and charge plus 2" if anything dies in psychic and/or shooting phase (not units, just models). Tough for mono-khorne but for Daemon soup with Tzeentch or Nurgle casters/shooting that's almost assuredly doable.

Fiends being more horrific (pardon the pun) in the morale phase with an auto -2 plus kills determining casualties to morale (3-6 fiends should literally destroy a unit through melee and morale).

Flamers causing mortal wounds on 6's in addition to other damage. Granted 1D6 per Flamer can lead to triple 1's or hexa 6's for number of shots but it can also lead to 18-36 shots almost guaranteeing a couple of mortals.

The new Nurgle relic is nice too. I seem to roll lots of 7's with my Nurgle casters so being rewarded for rolling 7's and knowing an additional spell (for free, 1 CP if you use your free Relic choice to get something else) seems really good to me.

Until we know all the relics and new stratagems and the stats for the Exalted upgrade (I'm assuming there is a stat boost or maybe it's just the new abilities) and the other 5 EGD abilities for each of the 4 GD's that aren't covered in the snippet article it's too early to burn your daemon army and call it useless.

The Blood-Drinker Talisman does look it might be a solid replacement for the Armour of Scorn for bloodthirsters, so long as deep-striking is done. Slaughterborn looks great as well.

Not one thing really increases the durability of Greater Daemons, which is their primary weakness. Regaining a wound here or there doesn't help much if they are easily blasted off the board turn 1 or with Auspex Scan. There are some good bits in there, and I really like the flamer strat, but my optimism has been curbed pretty hard based on what we've seen so far. I like the idea of Lords of Change turning off auras, but when do you take a Big Bird in for close combat?

Vortenger wrote:
Not one thing really increases the durability of Greater Daemons, which is their primary weakness. Regaining a wound here or there doesn't help much if they are easily blasted off the board turn 1 or with Auspex Scan. There are some good bits in there, and I really like the flamer strat, but my optimism has been curbed pretty hard based on what we've seen so far. I like the idea of Lords of Change turning off auras, but when do you take a Big Bird in for close combat?

Lord of Change being able to permanently turn off a psychic power by denying it is pretty sweet too, but I agree none of this really fixes the core reasons why you don't see Greater Daemons (or hell flesh hounds, plague drones, screamers or so many other units) in competitive lists. Maybe some of the other exalted traits will be eye popping, but who knows. Just gotta wait and see.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Vortenger wrote:
Not one thing really increases the durability of Greater Daemons, which is their primary weakness. Regaining a wound here or there doesn't help much if they are easily blasted off the board turn 1 or with Auspex Scan. There are some good bits in there, and I really like the flamer strat, but my optimism has been curbed pretty hard based on what we've seen so far. I like the idea of Lords of Change turning off auras, but when do you take a Big Bird in for close combat?

Lord of Change being able to permanently turn off a psychic power by denying it is pretty sweet too, but I agree none of this really fixes the core reasons why you don't see Greater Daemons (or hell flesh hounds, plague drones, screamers or so many other units) in competitive lists. Maybe some of the other exalted traits will be eye popping, but who knows. Just gotta wait and see.

Exactly, they have 5 more traits not shared. Maybe the Bloodthirster gets a FNP type of ability or maybe GUO will get something like Ghaz has. No matter what he is hit or shot with you can't do more than "X" number of damage.

Turning off a psychic power once every other game isn't going to help daemon armies A) survive against enemy firepower B) kill the enemy in melee.

My only hope is that the full release will grant us some worthwhile army-wide buffs.

You must have bad dice rolls. Lots of armies are casting multiple spells per turn per psychic phase. LoC can deny 2 per turn (or is it 3? Can't remember).
That's a good potential to completely neuter an CSM Sorcerer/DP/Eldar Warlock/Farseer, not to mention all the other psykers.

If a SM Libby casts 2 powers in one psychic phase and you deny them both that Libby has now become a glorified LT.

Most factions can handle a daemons list without spells. Especially one that spends 200-something pts on a Lord of Change.

Pretty happy with the Slaanesh stuff we got... one super good relic, two OK ones. The Greater Daemon Table is awesome though. Can’t pick one out as an auto take over others... all seem useful. Strats are OK, they’re all basically what my army needed. Particularly the cavalry one since I use Seekers.

People crying up a storm over the Demons stuff being useless, even though we've seen 5 out of 24 exalted buffs, and only a handful of the relics and strats