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 vaklor4 wrote:
People crying up a storm over the Demons stuff being useless, even though we've seen 5 out of 24 exalted buffs, and only a handful of the relics and strats

That’s online 40k in a nut shell lol. Been that way since 4th edition when I found places like this. Everyone just laments and cries about stuff - even decent new stuff - unless it is automatically the most powerful thing ever where they auto-win without having to think on the board.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
People crying up a storm over the Demons stuff being useless, even though we've seen 5 out of 24 exalted buffs, and only a handful of the relics and strats

That’s online 40k in a nut shell lol. Been that way since 4th edition when I found places like this. Everyone just laments and cries about stuff - even decent new stuff - unless it is automatically the most powerful thing ever where they auto-win without having to think on the board.

Now we've seen some leaks there's some decent stuff in there, but it's mostly nice to haves and some situational stuff. Not convinced the core issues are fixed, but auto casting 9's on horrors and some interesting perks for the big guys like t8 GUO sweeten the deal.

I think there is some really cool stuff in there. One thing that I noticed was that there doesn't appear to be any limitations on the Exalted Strategems, so you can have multiple exalted greater daemons there. A few top picks for me:

Lord of Change with Impossible Robe, Aura of Mutability, and Incorporeal Form is super durable. The Aura is great because you can regain wounds after the unit resolved their attacks. The aura should result in an effective 6 additional wounds. The Architect of Deception may be a better pick however just due to the fact that not getting damaged in the first place is better than rolling a save.
Nexus of fate also looks great. 3 lords with it means that you are likely getting 1CP a turn. A good investment? Probably not, but it is kind of cool.

The Exalted Keepers look interesting. Realm-racer is cool, but I don't think strictly needed as they already have awesome speed. Quicksilver reflexes is OK, but not as good as Blessing of the Dark Prince. Those pesky guardsmen getting you down? Not any more. Anything S3 won't even dint your KoS. Bolters reduce their damage by half against you. Massive upsides there. The other abilities are OK. Fear seeker is kind of cool, but doesn't help you get across the table. Although if you pair it up with a shining aegis to help you get there, could mean you are recovering wounds that you lost earlier. Also, being able to move as if it were the movement phase gives you a lot of positioning advantages.

For the Exalted Blood Thirsters I can't get pass Blood-blessed and G'rmakht the Destroyer as an ultimate combination. You loose at most 8 wounds in a phase, and when you eventually die, you have a chance to come back on a 4+ at the end of the phase! That said, a BloodThirster of Insensate Rage with the Blood-Drinker Talisman and Blood-blessed could result in an absurdly difficult model to remove. TBH, the Khorne traits are soo good that I would consider rolling on the table. Give a Bloodthirster Unrivalled Battle-Lust to give him a 7" charge out of deep strike (with re-roll for Khorne only!)

For Exalted Great Unclean Ones I feel they didn't get as much of a buff as the other factions. That said, T8 GUO is a nice option, although +1 to disgustingly resilient is a good option. Avalanche of Rotten Flesh is OK, but only if you are deep striking the GUO. The Effluvior is OKish. The big up side to it is it's pseudo-mortal wounds mechanic.

Guys I can’t find the new leaks for Daemons.. any idea? I read the comments and can’t find anything apart from the community yesterday’s post.

Most of the daemons rules have been leaked. Apparently there's one or two small sections missing.

Link: https://imgur.com/a/2uXgt5L

TL;DR daemons got some minor buffs. None of them will have much impact in competitive games but some might make a difference in a casual games.

As expected, PA engine war is mostly disappointing for daemons.

Sad how Khorne is literally worse at melee than Slaanesh.

Thanks for the link! I personally think that we are going to see greater days with these rules.

 slave.entity wrote:
Sad how Khorne is literally worse at melee than Slaanesh.

And that Tzeentch is worse in the psychic phase than Slaanesh

But seriously how do thousand sons get new psychic powers in this release and daemons don’t :facepalm

Doesn't look like any of it really changes anything significantly. Greater daemons weren't the problem (and their issues aren't fixed by spending CP to give them minor buffs), and almost none of those stratagems are anything besides the "spend 1 CP to make this unit a little better" filler that is by definition not particularly game-changing.

it will be more intresting how mono daemons will perform with those rules in 9th

Alot of good stuff, but Tzeentch really got shafted with much of it.

A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Haven't seen it myself yet but that sounds depressing. So aggravating as this could be such a great time in the game if they lavished all factions with the effort of the Uber Marine release

You can play age of sigmar with daemon units, and they are actually good there supposedly. I don't think there's a ton of appetite at GW for letting you buy an army that works well in both games.

 kodos wrote:
it will be more intresting how mono daemons will perform with those rules in 9th

Poorly I assume - as it stands if I want to build a list for more than 2 gods without losing rules, I'll need 3 detachments, each of those will cost me cp just for the pleasure of the detachment specifc rules. You've gone from being punished for running mixed god detachments, to being punished for using more than 1 god period.

Can you use the Exalted Stratagem multiple times on the same creature? Three CP for 3 abilities on the same model would be hilarious.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Can you use the Exalted Stratagem multiple times on the same creature? Three CP for 3 abilities on the same model would be hilarious.

Currently yes, most likely GW will FAQ it considering they already slapped a million punitive restrictions on Daemons player in this supplement.

Can anyone confirm that you can only take each exalted reward once in your army in matches play? E.G. you can't have 3 exalted GUOs with Revoltingly Resilient? I can't see this, is it in the missing pages?

I'll be very disappointed if that's the case.

 Virules wrote:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).

Not true.

You can use the exalted stratagem upgrade multiple times, because its not during a phase, the stratagem itself isnt limited to once per battle, or something similar. And there is no limitation that any ability can only be chosen once. The text is the same for all greater daemons, except for the keywords.

Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

ArikTaranis wrote:
Can anyone confirm that you can only take each exalted reward once in your army in matches play? E.G. you can't have 3 exalted GUOs with Revoltingly Resilient? I can't see this, is it in the missing pages?

You can have 3 GUOs with revoltingly resilient.

 p5freak wrote:

 Virules wrote:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).

Not true.

You can use the exalted stratagem upgrade multiple times, because its not during a phase, the stratagem itself isnt limited to once per battle, or something similar. And there is no limitation that any ability can only be chosen once. The text is the same for all greater daemons, except for the keywords.

Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

ArikTaranis wrote:
Can anyone confirm that you can only take each exalted reward once in your army in matches play? E.G. you can't have 3 exalted GUOs with Revoltingly Resilient? I can't see this, is it in the missing pages?

You can have 3 GUOs with revoltingly resilient.

womp womp

Was going to say, even if you could pick the same ability, you have to remember that buffs of the same name do not stack, unless explicitly stated to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, this doesnt seem to rule out the idea of using the strat multiple times on the same model and picking different ones... unless there is another mini rule somewhere that hasn't been shown yet

Bloody hell. The Marine approach and the NPC approach is getting super frustrating.

Kdash wrote:

However, this doesnt seem to rule out the idea of using the strat multiple times on the same model and picking different ones... unless there is another mini rule somewhere that hasn't been shown yet

This doesn't seem likely. But if it is somehow legal then exalted greater daemons could get interesting.

6CP to have all the traits? Or more realistically spend 1-2 CP rolling for 2-4 random traits, then an extra 1 CP for a trait you really want.

Kdash wrote:
Was going to say, even if you could pick the same ability, you have to remember that buffs of the same name do not stack, unless explicitly stated to do so.

Ok, you cannot pick the same ability more than once. I didnt know that daemonic jealousy rule. But you can still have the same ability on multiple exalted greater daemons, when you roll for them.

Kdash wrote:

However, this doesnt seem to rule out the idea of using the strat multiple times on the same model and picking different ones... unless there is another mini rule somewhere that hasn't been shown yet

Looks like that possible. You can use the exalted stratagem and roll for two abilities. Then you can use it again, on the same greater daemon, and roll for two more, or you can pick one. But what happens when you roll the second time, and you get a result which you already had the first time ?

JakeSiren wrote:
I think there is some really cool stuff in there. One thing that I noticed was that there doesn't appear to be any limitations on the Exalted Strategems, so you can have multiple exalted greater daemons there. A few top picks for me:

For the Exalted Blood Thirsters I can't get pass Blood-blessed and G'rmakht the Destroyer as an ultimate combination. You loose at most 8 wounds in a phase, and when you eventually die, you have a chance to come back on a 4+ at the end of the phase! That said, a BloodThirster of Insensate Rage with the Blood-Drinker Talisman and Blood-blessed could result in an absurdly difficult model to remove. TBH, the Khorne traits are soo good that I would consider rolling on the table. Give a Bloodthirster Unrivalled Battle-Lust to give him a 7" charge out of deep strike (with re-roll for Khorne only!)

I'm on the fence about G'rmakht, not too crazy bout giving up a relic slot for a 50/50 chance, and even then only D6 wound recovery. What about Exalted BT geared out with exalted trait for max 8 wound loss per phase, the Blood drinker talisman for life leech and then I dunno I guess that CD warlord train Oblivious to Pain for 6+ FNP?

I like them all. Peeps complaining that stratagems are unit specific and not that good. Flesh hounds are fast (not fiend fast but fast and now for 1 CP get faster being able to charge even when advancing)? Yes please. Karanak and his 9 buddies will like that stratagem.

Fiends lowering morale by -2. Between what Fiends can dish out in melee and now morale even SM MSU squads will most likely be wiped out. 4 dead marines + -2 = -6 to a SM morale of 8 if not within a LD bubble. On a 3+ with reroll there is a good chance that last dude is running like a scared cat.

Extra mortal wounds from Flamers? I run units of 6 and with good rolls could net an extra couple of mortals on a unit like a vehicle/MC or even just a pesky infantry/cav unit.

Not to mention 9th could change things up enough to where the PA isn't so bad. Morale and cover are getting an overhaul it seems. Daemons love cover (at least for LoS purposes and Slaanesh daemons (and a few other daemon units) can really screw up enemy morale.

I'm taking the wait and see approach. I'm going to theory hammer/play test a few games between now and PA release to see how my army is affected currently and speculate on what 9th brings (hopefully more 9th ed leaks pop up online).

jivardi wrote:

Extra mortal wounds from Flamers? I run units of 6 and with good rolls could net an extra couple of mortals on a unit like a vehicle/MC or even just a pesky infantry/cav unit.

I feel like Flamers received a double buff. Giving an extra mobility option to Heralds also benefits them a lot.

Flamers have been my go-to choice against Eldar flyers spam. Tons of autohits mess them up gooooood.

Lol @ fiends wiping out units with the Stratagem. It is true, but it is anti-synergy. You want fiends *not* to kill something, so the fiends and whatever is with them can stay locked in combat.

I recant my previous statement. All the Greater Daemons got some kind of durability buff as to keep them alive during casual games. Still not enough to save them in any competitive environment, sadly. Maybe Tzeentch.