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Verlo I read your list over and over starting from when it was first reviewed on goon. Weird to stumble upon the player now and get a glimpse into how the list was used. Its incredible. Thanks for sharing and props.

Are Beasts of Nurgle hot right now?
Hot as a relative term of course.

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Beasts of Nurgle hot right now?
Hot as a relative term of course.

More like underpriced as f()ck

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Beasts of Nurgle hot right now?
Hot as a relative term of course.

More like underpriced as f()ck

Beasts of Nurgle were crap for so long.
Let them have their time in the sun.

Hi all, I've just started collecting Daemons after years of playing Tau. I picked up two start collecting Tzeentch boxes and am struggling to weigh up which way to build them.
Would it be better to build:
- two Burning Chariots and two Changecasters
or
- Two Fluxmasters, 4 extra Screamers and 2 flamers
or
- a mix of the two options (maybe magnetise)

I'm just building up a foundation of Tzeentch models for now so it isn't going to be massively competitive but I just want to maximise what I've bought.

Burning chariots were bad in 8th and are still bad in 9th. Screamers and flamers are OK. You should always magnetize the exalted flamers to their chariots though. Chariots are an awesome model and I love using them in casual games.

Not a good choice, tzeentch and khorne are the weakest daemons overall, but tzeentch has some nice units. Changecaster and fluxmaster are really bad. They are way to expensive. Flamers are really good. You want at least 6, even better 9. Combine them with changecaster, deepstrike them, cast flickering flames, and play the flames of mutation stratagem, 9D6 autohits at S5 AP-1 D1, and every natural 6 to hit is 1MW in addition. Play warp surge in your opponents turn to give the flamers a 3+ inv. In addition you can play minions of magic on your changecaster to autocast infernal gateway on a 9. Screamers didnt do much in my games, except dying pretty fast.

 p5freak wrote:
Flamers are really good. You want at least 6, even better 9. Combine them with changecaster, deepstrike them, cast flickering flames, and play the flames of mutation stratagem, 9D6 autohits at S5 AP-1 D1, and every natural 6 to hit is 1MW in addition. Play warp surge in your opponents turn to give the flamers a 3+ inv. In addition you can play minions of magic on your changecaster to autocast infernal gateway on a 9.

I have a full squad of 9 flamers and Changecaster which looks like a good deep strike combo. Has warp surge not been FAQ'd to give a maximum of 4++?

Did you run squads of Pink horrors? I have 75 of them currently and 20 Blues and 20 Brimstones. Wondering if I should just run 3 squads of 25 pinks and keep the Blues in reserve for splitting. Brimstones can be in two small squads holding home objectives.

I second the flamers and changecaster combo with warp surge. Warp surge gives your flamers a 4++ and emperial form or whatever Tzeentch its called gives you +1 to the roll for an effectively 3++ invul. This doesn’t work on pink horrors as they have a 4++ and NOT the +1 on the roll which in my opinion is just bad rule written!!

If you want to take pinks I would suggest one maxed unit too DS in the middle for camping and making it a pain in the a** to take the objective there. In 8th I used 30 pinks and cast flickering flames with a changecaster for 90 S4 shoots with +1 to wound to kill of a unit with marines or the likes of it.

I have never run a chariot and I haven’t really missed them. Exalted flamers were good in 8th, I think the new character rules and assassinate secondary makes them a bit harder to take so maybe chariots might make a bit more sense now cause the mini Lascannon shots are pretty great.

I also run 30 pinks with icon and a herald, and a max squad of flamers and herald too. Which one gets flickering flames will depend on who is targeting what. For their price and stat line tz heralds should really be cast 2/deny 1...I often find myself using the “one Psyker casts again straight away” strat. The “horror unit manifests a power as if you rolled a 9” can be a fun way to push out a guaranteed infernal gateway too

Screamers are a neat little unit who can do work as an escort for a DP. 5 or 6 is probably enough before base sizes start getting in the way. Boon of change can be nice on them, +1A or T are always good and the strength bonus helps against the rare T7 stuff... furies are pretty great this edition too as cheap fast infantry. When I am not running mono tz (very rarely) I take mine as Khorne in a mixed patrol with Nurglings as 3 S5 attacks each is surprisingly ok

Lord of changes are great fun to exalt and roll. Can either be absolute defensive beasts with the right trait/relic/exalted rolls or pump out some fun amounts of MWs. I would love to find a way to fit the relic sword onto one just for fun but haven’t been able to give up the 3++ yet. Maybe I need to get a second one...

Soul grinders are never gonna win you a tournament but are much better now they ignore the move and shoot penalty for heavy weapons. You don’t feel so bad about moving them up the board to crush something and they are a very intimidating model for people who don’t know what they can do.

Keeping a few points in reserve for splitting is never a bad idea but I often find myself spending them on more fun stuff.

Tazberry wrote:
Warp surge gives your flamers a 4++ and emperial form or whatever Tzeentch its called gives you +1 to the roll for an effectively 3++ invul. This doesn’t work on pink horrors as they have a 4++ and NOT the +1 on the roll which in my opinion is just bad rule written!!

Cheers for the clarification, I will be using this for certain.

 tzurk wrote:
Lord of changes are great fun to exalt and roll. Can either be absolute defensive beasts with the right trait/relic/exalted rolls or pump out some fun amounts of MWs. I would love to find a way to fit the relic sword onto one just for fun but haven’t been able to give up the 3++ yet. Maybe I need to get a second one...

Lord of Change looks is really cool and would fit in line with my Tzeentch based army. I've decided that once I've painted the 1900pts I have so far I will treat myself to one. After that I will enjoy what I've got until I have an idea of when the newer codex is coming out.

 tzurk wrote:

The “horror unit manifests a power as if you rolled a 9” can be a fun way to push out a guaranteed infernal gateway too

This isn't possible. You might be confused with how they are in Age of Sigmar. In 40k, Pink Horrors only know the Smite power and they only get to roll 1d6 to cast it as part of the 'Magic Made Manifest' rule.

 D6Damager wrote:

 tzurk wrote:

The “horror unit manifests a power as if you rolled a 9” can be a fun way to push out a guaranteed infernal gateway too

This isn't possible. You might be confused with how they are in Age of Sigmar. In 40k, Pink Horrors only know the Smite power and they only get to roll 1d6 to cast it as part of the 'Magic Made Manifest' rule.

Yeah troop horrors cannot do it. Heralds have the horror keyword and can choose infernal gateway - this is what I was referring to. Poor wording I guess 8-)

What Exalted abilities and relics are people taking on their Greater Daemons?
I'm mainly thinking about the Lord of Change and the Great Unclean One.

 dan2026 wrote:
What Exalted abilities and relics are people taking on their Greater Daemons?
I'm mainly thinking about the Lord of Change and the Great Unclean One.

For the LoC aura of mutability. For GUO take revoltingly resilient.

 buddha wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What Exalted abilities and relics are people taking on their Greater Daemons?
I'm mainly thinking about the Lord of Change and the Great Unclean One.

For the LoC aura of mutability. For GUO take revoltingly resilient.

Aura of Mutability over Architect of Deception?
Maybe I just doubt my ability to roll 6s.

 dan2026 wrote:

 buddha wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What Exalted abilities and relics are people taking on their Greater Daemons?
I'm mainly thinking about the Lord of Change and the Great Unclean One.

For the LoC aura of mutability. For GUO take revoltingly resilient.

Aura of Mutability over Architect of Deception?
Maybe I just doubt my ability to roll 6s.

There's plenty of good build combos but aura mutability is the most consistent. It's not just a 6+++ FNP it also heals a wound which is what makes the trait so good.

The "unkillable" LoC is a thing for a reason. LoC with impossible robe, -1 dmg warlord trait, and the aura of mutability.

I have had great success with Slaanesh in Crusade play. I know it's not exactly the same as competitive play, but we tend to follow competitive rules (and I don't summon).

Some of the tactics may still be applicable...

What are thoughts about the big four FW Daemons now that they no longer cost like a billion points?

Yziel wrote:
What are thoughts about the big four FW Daemons now that they no longer cost like a billion points?

I gave mine in the FW preview thread. Basically, they went down to the price they should've been all along, but got nerfed.

Zarakynel is now a normal keeper with:
- +2 wounds (which isn't enough to be meaningful, except in that she can no longer hide behind terrain of any type)
- a 4++ (so 1 free exalted strat, only you had to pay 3CP to bring her in a LOW slot...)
- a "use her LD bubble" 3" larger (derp)
- a sword that still does 3 MW on a 4+ to wound (that's okay I guess)
- Str 7 ... woo

What do you lose?
- Delicate Precision (no RR to wound)
- any option other than the sinistrous hand analogue (which in this case heals d6 instead of D3... meh).

So you pay 3CP and 2x points for an actively worse model than the base on which it is built.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yziel wrote:
What are thoughts about the big four FW Daemons now that they no longer cost like a billion points?

I gave mine in the FW preview thread. Basically, they went down to the price they should've been all along, but got nerfed.

Zarakynel is now a normal keeper with:
- +2 wounds (which isn't enough to be meaningful, except in that she can no longer hide behind terrain of any type)
- a 4++ (so 1 free exalted strat, only you had to pay 3CP to bring her in a LOW slot...)
- a "use her LD bubble" 3" larger (derp)
- a sword that still does 3 MW on a 4+ to wound (that's okay I guess)
- Str 7 ... woo

What do you lose?
- Delicate Precision (no RR to wound)
- any option other than the sinistrous hand analogue (which in this case heals d6 instead of D3... meh).

So you pay 3CP and 2x points for an actively worse model than the base on which it is built.

Yikes, that was the one I was interested in too... I guess I'll buy a third normal Keeper instead to run Chillaxing + Triplets to show my dedication...

Me too, unfortunately.

I've already got a better KoS for my Crusade army anyways, after two upgrades XD.

My fluff has one Exalted leading 6 keepers (because of course it has to be 6). But I usually only run 3 per game (sometimes squeeze a 4th in as Shalaxi but rarely). I play Crusade almost exclusively with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, and this is important so I hope it flags it as a new post, I did miss a couple things with Zarakynel.

Her -1 to-hit applies to both shooting and melee (unlike a regular keeper's melee) which doesn't help her survive much but it's something.

She gets 6 attacks with the claws instead of 4. Again, not amazing but at least you get something.

Certainly doesn't make up the additional cost but at least it's something.

Angrrath got nerfed but I think not in a COMPLETELY bad way. He's basically a Bloodthirster on steroids. Is he worth the price of two bloodthirsters? Maaaybe? I'd say he's at least more durable.

With the new points cost An'ggrath has actually been buffed. He is now very playable. Not likely to win any events, but he is not the huge liability he was before.

artific3r wrote:
With the new points cost An'ggrath has actually been buffed. He is now very playable. Not likely to win any events, but he is not the huge liability he was before.

Only playable in points, I own the model and its a /nightmare/ to transport and a hassle to move. Spindly, easily breakable whip and HUGE wings

 vaklor4 wrote:

artific3r wrote:
With the new points cost An'ggrath has actually been buffed. He is now very playable. Not likely to win any events, but he is not the huge liability he was before.

Only playable in points, I own the model and its a /nightmare/ to transport and a hassle to move. Spindly, easily breakable whip and HUGE wings

This is why I love the Great Unclean One. Ain't nobody breaking that chunky bastard.
Whether its the plastic or resin one.

Were there any changes to the rules for Uraka? I was thinking of getting that model.

Uraka's pretty much the same. Ultimately there's never a reason to run a daemon prince on foot.

Unit1126PLL wrote:I have had great success with Slaanesh in Crusade play. I know it's not exactly the same as competitive play, but we tend to follow competitive rules (and I don't summon).

Some of the tactics may still be applicable...

What were your crusade tactics and build? I'm hoping to get in and on a major slaanesh kick in AoS and would like to mirror that in 40k.