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OK so I am trying to get mono slaanesh (with possible support from daemon engines from CSM as they are daemons too!) off the ground. For me the best build seems to be full on chariots (lots and lots of chariots) Daemonettes seem good if you can get them in (the problem being getting them in combat), now what I want to look at is point for point which is the better choice exalted chariots or normal chariots. Exalted chariots cost around 31% more, it starts just as fast but hitting on 2+ and with double the base A. It has Assault D6 lashes that can be used in combat and has double the lashing tongue attacks in combat. It has 10W compared to 6W but does become weaker once it loses 1/2 wounds. I*t's scythes cause mortal wounds on a 5+ and not a 6+.

So it at first glance it looks clear cut, however once you through the Masque in there it becomes more complicated as the smaller chariots then gain -1 to hit in combat compared to the exalted chariots (although you then have to pay for the Masque) and it is easier to hide .

For me the Exalted chariots look like the best choice, in terms of survivor-ability for their points, the general problem will be not surviving in combat but getting into combat and the exalted chariots are better at that, yes at 50% they move down to M10 but at that point a smaller chariot may already be dead and even at 50% I believe it will still cause similar if not more damage than a normal seeker.

Ok so my thoughts on the list are developing, I need something to deal with tanks and heavily armoured targets so I am thinking Zarakynel along with Daemon engine support (maybe decimators or Mauler fiends), I will then add Belakor to buff the demons as well as Warptime my damon engines. Also he's - 1 LD will stack with Zarakynels for potential combo's.

So, thoughts of the Slaaneshi Chariots now?

There much more resilient, now that the rider can't be targeted in melee anymore. For the first time since we got official models; chariot have rules where you actually want them in combat. The new rules make them similar to the original 4th Edition Herald chariots, with more wounds and higher strength. In the 4th/5th I used to take 4 herald chariots, they were cheap and for Slaanesh tough models that could charge in and hold up units; now I can use the to tar-pit again and survive their first combat.

Impact Hits:

In the 6th and 7th chariots were at best a distraction unit they either exploded spectacularly before doing anything or whiffed their D6 HOW attacks and then died. But then came the Grand Cavalcade formation with its +1D6 HOW attacks and allowing you to field 7 chariots for 385 pts. All of the sudden chariot could do work, it they didn't die before making the charge they could delete units. Sadly, the Cavalcade is gone now and the Scything Impact ability is not nearly as good a their old Hammer of Wrath ability was. Even assuming you get 6 models within 6", say by turning the chariot side ways; with average rolls that's just a single mortal wound. By comparison in a Grand Cavalcade is a chariot made the charge you were looking at 7-10 S4/AP-/Rending auto hits on a successful charge. You were still averaging 1-1.8 rends, but the non rending attacks would on average kill an additional 1-2 Marines, or 4-5 Orks/Guard. Scything impact should really trigger on a 4+ roll like it does in AOS.

Anti-vehicle:

With the exception of the Hellflayer the chariots aren't very effective against monsters or vehicles. Their scything impact can at best can do a single mortal wound to them on the charge; and their melee attacks are S4/AP-1/Rending. The Hellflayer is better against monsters and vehicles with D6 attacks at S8/AP-1/Dam 2. So, on average that's 3 attacks and assuming they all hit, wound and aren't saved 6 damage. Not bad but it could have used more AP.

I'm not saying their bad, I actually like the changes but they are very different than their last incarnation. Since I have 12 its not like I'd stopped playing them anyway. It just seems strange that all those whirling blades are more of a bonus now than the main focus of the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:


I was actually annoyed when they released the new chariot kit, not because they released it but because they nerffed them into vehicles, when they where previously awesome as cavalry.

I remember that day were I picked up my models, flipped open the "Official Chaos Daemons Update" and..."Hello darkness my old friend..." Nerfed into uselessness, but hey I can take them as heavy support and attack now. Yeah?
Of course, the same pamphlet wanked screamers to stupid levels of power. I guess they really wanted to sell those but not the chariots for some reason. I'm not sure why it took them 3-4 attempts to finally get chariots right again.

Are the chariots great vs tanks not really, they can do a bit through massed attacks but thats it, however their are units I can play to fill that role instead. The army will have daemon princes as well as possibly support from maulerfiends.

FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

I recognize my bias about my own army, but I genuinely wonder what people think the solution to horrors is, considering there's a very simple reason as to why no one uses the 240pt full split unit.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.

I'm well aware.

I just don't view them as "problem children" the same way. Horrors, that is.

Here's hoping GW stops trying to force split, and eases the reigns on the useless and expensive option, making the spam less viable instead.

 Sersi wrote:
So, thoughts of the Slaaneshi Chariots now?

There much more resilient, now that the rider can't be targeted in melee anymore. For the first time since we got the white dwarf chariot rules you actually want them in combat again. The new rules make them similar to the original 4th Edition Herald chariots, with more wounds and higher strength. In the 4th/5th I used to take 4 herald chariots, they were cheap and for Slaanesh tough models that could charge in and hold up units; now I can use the to tar-pit again and survive their first combat.

Impact Hits:

In the 6th and 7th chariots were at best a distraction unit they either exploded spectacularly before doing anything or whiffed their D6 HOW attacks and then died. But then came the Grand Cavalcade formation with its +1D6 HOW attacks and allowing you to field 7 chariots for 385 pts. All of the sudden chariot could do work, it they didn't die before making the charge they could delete units. Sadly, the Cavalcade is gone now and the Scything Impact ability is not nearly as good a their old Hammer of Wrath ability was. Even assuming you get 6 models within 6", say by turning the chariot side ways; with average rolls that's just a single mortal wound. By comparison in a Grand Cavalcade is a chariot made the charge you were looking at 7-10 S4/AP-/Rending auto hits on a successful charge. You were still averaging 1-1.8 rends, but the non rending attacks would on average kill an additional 1-2 Marines, or 4-5 Orks/Guard. Scything impact should really trigger on a 4+ roll like it does in AOS.

Anti-vehicle:

With the exception of the Hellflayer the chariots are very effective against monsters or vehicles. Their scything impact can at best can do a single mortal wound to them on the charge; and their melee attacks are S4/AP-1/Rending. The Hellflayer is better against monsters and vehicles with D6 attacks at S8/AP-1/Dam 2. So, on average that's 3 attacks and assuming they all hit, wound and aren't saved 6 damage. Not bad but it could have used more AP.

I'm not saying their bad, I actually like the changes but they are very different than their last incarnation. Since I have 12 its not like I'd stopped playing them anyway. It just seems strange that all those whirling blades are more of a bonus now than the main focus of the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:


I was actually annoyed when they released the new chariot kit, not because they released it but because they nerffed them into vehicles, when they where previously awesome as cavalry.

I remember that day were I picked up my models, flipped open the "Official Chaos Daemons Update" and..."Hello darkness my old friend..." Nerfed into uselessness, but hey I can take them as heavy support and attack now. Yeah?
Of course, the same pamphlet wanked screamers to stupid levels of power. I guess they really wanted to sell those but not the chariots for some reason. I'm not sure why it took them 3-4 attempts to finally get chariots right again.

Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.

Weird that they'd wait for the codex to fix them if they think brimstones are a problem, considering how the Chaos Daemon codex isn't set up to be released for a while.

What's the best way to handle flying aircraft armies? Flying daemon princes? I have a friend who brings 3 storm ravens in his army. Enables him to deliver hard hitting troops where ever he wants plus the 3 storm ravens themselves hit really hard. (And can't be attacked by ground troops).

On average, we need two princes to take on 1 storm raven? Have to assume he will get the first attack since those things can fly so far while our daemon princes can only fly 12 inches. Does this mean I need like 6 princes ? Sounds like an arm race already at this point... zzzz Next thing I know, he will have 4 ravens and then I need 8 princes... lol

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.

+1 to this.

I've always tried to avoid 'jumping on the bandwagon' to chase the unit that was the flavor of the month. It will eventually get nurfed into the ground.
I perfer to get really good at a few armies and stick with them until I get bored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
What's the best way to handle flying aircraft armies? Flying daemon princes? I have a friend who brings 3 storm ravens in his army. Enables him to deliver hard hitting troops where ever he wants plus the 3 storm ravens themselves hit really hard. (And can't be attacked by ground troops).

Last weekend someone I was playing brought a hemlock fighter.
I used smite on it 4 times over two rounds, knocking off 8 wounds. I then assaulted it with my plague drones, killing it.

So what is working for everyone? I'm starting to get back into 8th edition playing my Chaos Daemons. I was thinking of a balanced list with some Tzeentch and some Nurgle. How are Plague Drones this edition? Tzeentch or Nurgle for Daemon Princes? Would love to start a discussion about what's working and what's not.

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:


Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?

I haven't summoned yet since I filled my entire pts allowance and generally like to foot slog across the board, I am considering making room in my points so I can summon fiends to keep units locked in combat.

This is the list I ran, game was weird because half my opponents army was terminators and supposedly you can declare you're placing a unit by saying you're putting them into deep strike reserve, so I had to deploy 5 units onto the table before he even had to put 1 thing on the table and he denied me a flank when he got around to placing everything that couldn't deep strike (which made 30 Daemonettes never see action they just sat on an objective, while the other 60 took 2 turns to reach each combat) game was big guns never tire.

Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.

How is everyone finding Plague Drones this edition? Should I just be fielding them naked?

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?

I haven't summoned yet since I filled my entire pts allowance and generally like to foot slog across the board, I am considering making room in my points so I can summon fiends to keep units locked in combat.

This is the list I ran, game was weird because half my opponents army was terminators and supposedly you can declare you're placing a unit by saying you're putting them into deep strike reserve, so I had to deploy 5 units onto the table before he even had to put 1 thing on the table and he denied me a flank when he got around to placing everything that couldn't deep strike (which made 30 Daemonettes never see action they just sat on an objective, while the other 60 took 2 turns to reach each combat) game was big guns never tire.

Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.

I can't think of a list that I'd want to fight less with a terminator army then this.

 Rydria wrote:


Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.

Oh, I like this list. I have the model so I'll probably try it out this weekend. Was it worth it running the Daemonettes in 30 girl squads? I'd probably go with 20, and spring for a few single Fiends. Mine tend to draw a lot of fire since no one want to be locked in combat.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
]I can't think of a list that I'd want to fight less with a terminator army then this.

His list did have 3 landspeeders with heavy bolters + assault cannons being escorted by samuel in his land speeder (re-roll all to hits is really good) i'm just lucky he spent two turns shooting Zarakynel, and not my infantry horde, though the turn he finally did start shoting them he had to move which crippled his hit rolls since, -1 from moving with heavy weapons and the -1 from the masques aura caused allot of his shots to miss. (can't re-roll 3 - 5 since they hit before the negative modifier is applied)

 Sersi wrote:


Oh, I like this list. I have the model so I'll probably try it out this weekend. Was it worth it running the Daemonettes in 30 girl squads? I'd probably go with 20, and spring for a few single Fiends. Mine tend to draw a lot of fire since no one want to be locked in combat.

It is worth having 2 units in 30 girl squads since you can comfortably keep them in range of the masque who increases there durability (the foot herald also escorts them for +1str), I have been tempted to drop the 3rd squad down to 10(or less) to make room for some summoning, since the squad who hasn't got the masque buff normally get bullied by massed anti infantry fire.

But I've always got the lingering greed, I want my Daemonette squads to arrive with at least 20 models remaining so I get that +1 attack which is quite big, it is one of the reasons I run seekers, there job is to ride on ahead and tie up some shooting, so my Daemonettes can make there way up the board safely to minimize loses, and f they fail to get close enough they will generally get shot over the Daemonettes since there the immediate theat.

opponent list if anyone is interested

Elite detachment (forgot name)
Belial (sword of silence, storm bolter)
Deathwing Liberian (Force sword, storm bolter)
x5 Deathwing terminators (x5 storm bolter, 1 power sword, 4 fists, watcher in the dark)
x5 Deathwing terminators (x5 storm bolter, 1 power sword, 4 fists, watcher in the dark)
x5 Deathwing Knights (x5 storm shields, 1 flail, 4 maces, watcher in the dark)

Fast Attack detachment (forgot name)
Samuel (In land speeder) (x2 assault cannon, x2 heavy bolter)
x4 Ravenwing bikes (x1 power sword)
x4 Ravenwing bikes (x1 power sword)
x3 Ravenwing Land speeders (x3 heavy bolters, x3 Assualt cannons)
x1 dark shroud (x1 assault cannon)

Had another game against the current top dawg tourny list of 5 stormravens... Lasted until turn 4 before I called it. Against a list like this, your best bet in first turn, is to move your big hitters (magnus, DP, etc...) as far in the back is you can, with the changling and rest of army (brimmies) create a buffer zone to prevent the 2-dice melta-take the highest rolls.

Three things...

1) The Changeling is the most Auto-include HQ I've ever seen... that -1 to hit is simply golden, especially being bottom of 1st turn.

2) Magnus is quite possibly the best all-round monster for his points... I think 415 is an absolute steal.

3) Exalted Flamers performed really well... anyone has experience spamming these guys? Seems like a great distraction/assassination unit to deepstrike in enemy backline or gang up on a particular target.

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...

 whembly wrote:

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...

The FW Lord of Change is the model for Aetaos. And as for using the GW LoC, it is about half the size and a quarter the bulk.

 whembly wrote:
Had another game against the current top dawg tourny list of 5 stormravens... Lasted until turn 4 before I called it. Against a list like this, your best bet in first turn, is to move your big hitters (magnus, DP, etc...) as far in the back is you can, with the changling and rest of army (brimmies) create a buffer zone to prevent the 2-dice melta-take the highest rolls.

Three things...

1) The Changeling is the most Auto-include HQ I've ever seen... that -1 to hit is simply golden, especially being bottom of 1st turn.

2) Magnus is quite possibly the best all-round monster for his points... I think 415 is an absolute steal.

3) Exalted Flamers performed really well... anyone has experience spamming these guys? Seems like a great distraction/assassination unit to deepstrike in enemy backline or gang up on a particular target.

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...

I use 12 Exalted Flamers in my list. Yes, it works exactly as horrifyingly well as you'd expect.

Second, absolutely not. Aetaos is supposed to be enormous. I use an Archaon for mine.

Size comparison I found on Google:


Aetaos is noticeably larger than the new LoC kit.

Lawd... he's a hunk of resin!

Thanks guys!

Also... contemplating on getting more Exalted Flamers...

The third model in the pic I linked is the UltraForge Vrok (I think). It looks about the size of Aetaos (actually bigger but just squatting down). You could put a set of wings (or rather a second set since his wings are extension of his arms) on his back and make a passable Aetaos

With his pose, I don't know if that would work. He's squatting too low and would be able to hide behind terrain, which normal Aetaos cannot. Too close to modeling for advantage, imo.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
With his pose, I don't know if that would work. He's squatting too low and would be able to hide behind terrain, which normal Aetaos cannot. Too close to modeling for advantage, imo.

Are you serious? What kind of terrain do you use that can block LoS for a model that big?
The Vrok is still pretty darn tall. Taller even than the plastic LoC model (not counting wings), which I have NEVER been able to hide behind terrain
I need to play in your area, my Daemons and Eldar would love it!

Even if you play with ridiculously tall LoS blocking terrain, there is a couple ways to make the Vrok fit the same profile as Aetaos:
A) place the model on a tall rock. It's already on a rock, so making that rock bigger and taller is not going to be hard. Then you just count the rock as part of the model
B) Add another set of wings, making sure they are big and tall. Remember, this is not 7E, so wings count now
C) do both A & B

I'm not sure the price for either model, but if the Vrok is even 50% less than Aetaos, it's worth the extra modeling effort

-

I'm super serious. You have the photo, you posted it. The Vrock is half the size of Aetaos, and shorter than even a LoC. He can very easily hide behind buildings.

Yes, you can potentially place him "on" things, but I am of the opinion that a standard vrock is absolutely unacceptable as a replacement for Aetaos.

Edit: You have to count the wings. They draw LOS for him to be hit. Aetaos natural model has very large wings, and takes up a very large amount of space.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm super serious. You have the photo, you posted it. The Vrock is half the size of Aetaos, and shorter than even a LoC. He can very easily hide behind buildings.

Yes, you can potentially place him "on" things, but I am of the opinion that a standard vrock is absolutely unacceptable as a replacement for Aetaos.

Edit: You have to count the wings. They draw LOS for him to be hit. Aetaos natural model has very large wings, and takes up a very large amount of space.

Which is why I am suggesting adding very tall wings to the Vrok. If you look purely at the body, the Vrok is much bulkier than Aetaos. Add a taller rock and wings as big as Aetaos's and you have a perfectly acceptable Aetaos conversion. (and no, it wouldn't be a proxy or 'counts as", but a true "looks like him" conversion)

What I was in disbelief about is that you have enough terrain in your area that can block the LoS of even the unaltered Vrok. I do not have that luxury in my area, so a model's pose isn't that big of an issue for conversions. Not even kneeling WKs can hide, for example (not that I have one of those, but I've seen it)
There is some tall terrain, but at tourneys, it is few and far between. Most terrain is only about 4-5" tall and/or has plenty of windows to see straight through
I've used the plastic LoC in 7E when wings didn't count and still had a hard time hiding his main body

-

Tournaments around me are pretty good and strict about their LOS blocking terrain and ITC buildings. Especially with 8th, it's very important to have it.

Perhaps it's a perspective difference due to differences in our location. As always, check with YOUR TO about a model. As a standard. I check with LVO Judges opinions, so I have a universal standard for if/when I travel.

I can appreciate having a universal standard. Even if you don't travel, it is just a good courtesy for your opponents.

I still think the Vrok can be altered very easily to function identically to Aetaos for LoS purposes no matter what kind of terrain you have. The real issue is how cheap it would be compared to the work needed.
I am pretty sure the Vrok is cheaper than Aetaos but a large margin, but then you have to buy large wings, likely from Magnus or the plastic LoC or some other source. That might not be so easy.

-

While figuring out how to model The Vrak, I think I'm in the camp of saving up some scratch the next few months and just get the FW models.