Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey did they nerf delightful agonies in the Daemons codex or is it just a typo in my digital edition?

Heretic astartes version (which is a 5+ FNP) is now a 6+ FNP in the Daemons codex.

It’s weird because they said that powers with the same name (Miasma of Pestilence, etc) are supposed to be the same power. But this one is different

I have no idea why, but yes, the daemon version is worse.

 luke1705 wrote:
Hey did they nerf delightful agonies in the Daemons codex or is it just a typo in my digital edition?

Heretic astartes version (which is a 5+ FNP) is now a 6+ FNP in the Daemons codex.

It’s weird because they said that powers with the same name (Miasma of Pestilence, etc) are supposed to be the same power. But this one is different

drop it on the facebook page and see if it gets errated

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I have no idea why, but yes, the daemon version is worse.

it just may be that daemon version is meant to be worse as it always goes on top of daemons' 5++ invul save...

Tyranids are probably the biggest counter to us. With 6+ deepstriking units and 9 biovores shooting bombs everywhere... If they go first, they cover the entire map and you can't really deepstrike. Even if you clear all that crap out, you still have biovores constantly putting more crap on the table. (And are safelly hiding behind LoS blocking terrain with dudes around preventing deepstrike)

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Tyranids are probably the biggest counter to us. With 6+ deepstriking units and 9 biovores shooting bombs everywhere... If they go first, they cover the entire map and you can't really deepstrike. Even if you clear all that crap out, you still have biovores constantly putting more crap on the table. (And are safelly hiding behind LoS blocking terrain with dudes around preventing deepstrike)

I'd disagree and possit instead with imperial soup being a bigger counter.

the deep strikers aren't an issue because we have some very cheap units like brim stones and units like nurglings that have super scout that can counter this deep striking issue pretty aggressively. Thus, giving you the space you need to actualy do your deep striking thing. I think maybe if you are going mono khorne i could see this being a big issue, but against that you could just not deep strike and go for a counter charge. Saving your CP for other things.

Again though i think this is more a mono god issue and not a mixed daemons issue. I think mixed daemons are pretty tough and have a lot of durability and table control.

The only other army that can get the level of table control that daemons have would be imperial guard. Guard having access to space marine super scouts or built in weak and soft scouts in ratlings and scentials. While also having good deep striking units like scions.

To a lesser extent maybe eldar going first. They have a weak scout in the form of rangers, but they also have some super fast flying units that can really test any holes in a screen, and to spread out and take up all the table space in a single turn.

Best things nids have is double moving hive tyrants and advancing gaunts swarms, which can be counter with nurgle scouts and good deployment and only really work on one unit.

Well nids hard counter scouts by shooting them with biovores. So if you place a nurgling somewhere, then you can't deepstrike there as they'll place a mine next to them. So you can't really put nurglings next to their army or you won't be able to deepstrike there.

Space Marine Scout clearance has been raised. I’m honestly not sold on Horrors for this - if they’re in cover and have cloaks, that’s a 2+ save. Surely Bloodletters are the solution to this screen? What do the other gods have? Flamers, Daemonettes? They’re adequate, I suppose. What about Nurgle, out-screen them with Nurglings?

So as expected, Daemon stratagems cannot be used on non faction daemon units. Unexpectedly this is a FAQ, not an errata, which means it's inconsistent with existing guidance. I really hope that existing synergy doesn't change.

Also as expected non daemon codex units that happened to have faction daemon have lost it.
Except Mamon I think.

The updated FAQ's: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

We all knew this was coming. However this does not change how Auras and Keywords work once the battle has begun, only Stratagems.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So as expected, Daemon stratagems cannot be used on non faction daemon units. Unexpectedly this is a FAQ, not an errata, which means it's inconsistent with existing guidance. I really hope that existing synergy doesn't change.

Also as expected non daemon codex units that happened to have faction daemon have lost it.
Except Mamon I think.

Where does it say non daemon codex units that happened to have Faction Daemon lost it?

In their codex faqs

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So as expected, Daemon stratagems cannot be used on non faction daemon units. Unexpectedly this is a FAQ, not an errata, which means it's inconsistent with existing guidance. I really hope that existing synergy doesn't change.

Also as expected non daemon codex units that happened to have faction daemon have lost it.
Except Mamon I think.

It could change. That was a very interesting choice they made. It would apply to any none faction users of stratagems, but honestly there isn't much of that around that I can think of??

Well, what was actually super-nerfed other than Deepstriking Magnus/Morty?

Obliterators could Deepstrike already. Warp Talons could Deepstrike already.

Warp Surge? Thousand Sons could Weaver something for similar.

Other Stratagems? Most of them were best used by the OG Daemons Factions anyway.

And yet all the auras and locuses still affect anything with Keyword Daemon too. It's a loss, but not that harsh. Maybe unfair considering Imperial Soup, but we're not neutered yet.

I’m kind of new to Warhammer.

I’m playing Daemon army of Khorne and mostly Tzeentch. Was planing on to buy into obliterates to use in a CSM detachment but buff them up whit a DP with daemonspark (reroll 1 to wound) and maybe for target of “flickering flames”.

So my question is, with the FAQ and overall. Can I do this? It’s a Daemon only lost “faction keyword”. What’s the big difference in faction and just keyword?

Sorry for noob questions.

As a Slaanesh player I'm happy with the FAQ. I wouldn't be taking that I don't want any friends Morty/Magnus bull crap anyway and my Hellflayers and Seekers got their keywords they needed back.

Tazberry wrote:
I’m kind of new to Warhammer.

I’m playing Daemon army of Khorne and mostly Tzeentch. Was planing on to buy into obliterates to use in a CSM detachment but buff them up whit a DP with daemonspark (reroll 1 to wound) and maybe for target of “flickering flames”.

So my question is, with the FAQ and overall. Can I do this? It’s a Daemon only lost “faction keyword”. What’s the big difference in faction and just keyword?

Sorry for noob questions.

I believe the loss of the "faction keyword" means that you would not be able to include Obliterators in your Khorne/Tzeentch Daemon detachment. You would have to include them in a CSM detachment. The presence of the "Daemon" keyword though does mean that it could benefit from any Chaos Daemons modifiers or auras that affect Daemons. So for instance, Khorne Obliterators should still be able to benefit for the Khorne:Locus of Rage since they have Mark of Khorne and also the Daemon keyword.

eternalxfl wrote:

Tazberry wrote:
I’m kind of new to Warhammer.

I’m playing Daemon army of Khorne and mostly Tzeentch. Was planing on to buy into obliterates to use in a CSM detachment but buff them up whit a DP with daemonspark (reroll 1 to wound) and maybe for target of “flickering flames”.

So my question is, with the FAQ and overall. Can I do this? It’s a Daemon only lost “faction keyword”. What’s the big difference in faction and just keyword?

Sorry for noob questions.

I believe the loss of the "faction keyword" means that you would not be able to include Obliterators in your Khorne/Tzeentch Daemon detachment. You would have to include them in a CSM detachment. The presence of the "Daemon" keyword though does mean that it could benefit from any Chaos Daemons modifiers or auras that affect Daemons. So for instance, Khorne Obliterators should still be able to benefit for the Khorne:Locus of Rage since they have Mark of Khorne and also the Daemon keyword.

The FAQ only states that just the stratagems have to target faction daemons, psychic powers, auras and that can still be used on anything with the daemon keyword whether or not its a faction keyword.

Everything else is playable, Epidemius and Nurgle oblits, loci affecting CSM and DG units. Only thing not viable is DS Primarchs, no big deal. I have play tested some nurgle daemons heavy horde army list with Epidemius and nurgle oblits and its totally awesome.
The trees are super good with oblits too. And they can be deep struck in the battlefield.

They should have changed the name of Delightful Agonies, but it's a worse save due to Slaanesh daemons being weaker and cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus a 5+ fnp is stepping in Nurgle toes.

Starting to warm to the idea of a deep striking Bloodthirster or Skarbrand, or using a Khyribdis again. My 3x20 Bloodletters supported by Herald was a reliable Anvil but my Hammer still needs work.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
As a Slaanesh player I'm happy with the FAQ. I wouldn't be taking that I don't want any friends Morty/Magnus bull crap anyway and my Hellflayers and Seekers got their keywords they needed back.

I know we just have to take what we can get...but this is just so sad.

remember btw oblys, possesed lord of skulls, lost demons faction keyword, now they have only demons in keyword, so they cant be any longer included in demon detachment if you want keep locus and stratagems.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Starting to warm to the idea of a deep striking Bloodthirster or Skarbrand, or using a Khyribdis again. My 3x20 Bloodletters supported by Herald was a reliable Anvil but my Hammer still needs work.

might not be too terrible. I definitly thing a 2 turn strategy is where you wanna go with daemons. Thanks to deep strike for the most part you only have to survive a single turn with of damage. deep striking 2 great daemons means both need to be dealt with otherwise they are in combat doin nasty things, and they can come in after your first way of deep strike clears stuff out.

mmimzie wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Starting to warm to the idea of a deep striking Bloodthirster or Skarbrand, or using a Khyribdis again. My 3x20 Bloodletters supported by Herald was a reliable Anvil but my Hammer still needs work.

might not be too terrible. I definitly thing a 2 turn strategy is where you wanna go with daemons. Thanks to deep strike for the most part you only have to survive a single turn with of damage. deep striking 2 great daemons means both need to be dealt with otherwise they are in combat doin nasty things, and they can come in after your first way of deep strike clears stuff out.

Yeah I dropped 1x20 in turn 1 and then 2x20 turn two, and it gummed up my opponent nicely for a while, however the rest of my army was having trouble getting in (partially my own poor deployment decisions made it difficult to maneuver 20 Berzerkers + Kharn around a Blood Slaughter's phat ass). The massive drop pod is only slightly more expensive than a Thirster so it's been on my mind. Also ITC allows you to deploy Heralds inside them, for extra HUEHUEHUE. One way or the other I believe multiple waves are the way to go.

I've played a few games with my Nurgle daemon list now and really like it so far and there are some really solid synergies between Epidmius, the Loci system and DG Fleshmower drones, of which I run 5.

The only downside is that it can be challenging to keep track of all the buffs lol (Epi.tally + Plague banner boost + Loci range + psychic power buff + character auras), but that's a luxury problem. Plaguebearers can be brutal!

Does the locust of virulence from a herald of nurgle affect the shooting of obliterstors and other daemon engines such as drones?

I don't see why no, but need to double check

Could I get some opinions on a mono-Tzeentch army?

What would you personally include in a 1,300pts list, artifacts, deepstrike CP's?

So far I've seen Flamers & Pinks are a must to deepstrike. Would you consider taking Magnus? Screamers are a tad better this codex, however Exalted Flamers are up in points and chariots do not seem to be worth it... Lord of Change is somewhat okay now? Any psychic powers that stand out for him?

I'm curious how you guys feel about deepstriking Plaguebearers.

My current list is something like

nurgle batallion 30x Plagues 9x nurglings, a herald, a sloppity bilepiper

tzeentch batallion 30x pinks, 2x 10 brims, changeling, herald, daemon prince, some mixture of flamers/exalted flamers

Magnus in auxilliary.

Initial plan was to footslog plaguebearers and deepstrike the tzeentch batallion HOWEVER, it is considerably less costly in CP if I were to deepstrike the nurgle bat, and footslog the pinks.

Another option I toyed with was dropping Magnus and running 1-2 more daemon princes of nurgle or tzeentch to deepstrike in or perhaps 30 more plaguebearers (30 more pinks aren't an option as I don't own 60) with whichever detatchment I chose.

Thoughts?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

spaceclown wrote:
Could I get some opinions on a mono-Tzeentch army?

What would you personally include in a 1,300pts list, artifacts, deepstrike CP's?

So far I've seen Flamers & Pinks are a must to deepstrike. Would you consider taking Magnus? Screamers are a tad better this codex, however Exalted Flamers are up in points and chariots do not seem to be worth it... Lord of Change is somewhat okay now? Any psychic powers that stand out for him?

What kind of game is this? I haven't played since Chapter Approved/Codex but I'll throw in that even in 2k points where my opponent had a chance to premeditate on my list they still had trouble dealing with Magnus (Obviously this differs depending on your opponents general skill level and army makeup). I'm assuming this is still the same case.

With that in mind, If I were going to use Magnus in a Tzeentch list @ 1300pts it would be something like:

Magnus in auxilliary
Tzeentch battallion w/ Changecaster, Daemon Prince w/ wings, 2x 5 flamer squads, 30 pinks, 2x 10 brims.

20 points left over for splitting some blues/brims to maintain your pink squad shooting. You would have to choose depending on your opponent what to deepstrike, you will have 6cp so you could send in changecaster, pinks, prince, and haev 1 CP for flickering flames. You could also choose to save some CP and only deepstrike the flamer squads. You could also drop the prince if you wanted to pick up something else like changeling or more pinks; the threat saturation is going to be really high for a 1300pt list because Magnus demands so much firepower to be stopped.

With how infrequently you are going to be using the tzeentch Icon I honestly think it is worth considering some nurglings.

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Well, what was actually super-nerfed other than Deepstriking Magnus/Morty?

Obliterators could Deepstrike already. Warp Talons could Deepstrike already.

Warp Surge? Thousand Sons could Weaver something for similar.

Other Stratagems? Most of them were best used by the OG Daemons Factions anyway.

And yet all the auras and locuses still affect anything with Keyword Daemon too. It's a loss, but not that harsh. Maybe unfair considering Imperial Soup, but we're not neutered yet.

Loci of Wrath, Fecundity, and Conjuration don’t affect CSM Daemon units. Not so bad on the first, CSM have a lot of access to re-roll auras. The second is a minor annoyance - the DG Drones were the big beneficiaries there, but they’re already pretty tough. The third is a disappointing blow to anyone who was looking forwards to having a bunch of radical 90s dude sorcerers kickflipping their Discs of Tzeentch to do gnarly spells. Bogus :(