Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Am I losing my marbles or is a Blood Throne pretty good? Only 5 points more than the JuggerHerald with a way better stateline. The six inch movement doesn't matter anymore since it can deep strike in. The extra attacks plus King of Blades plus the extra Helblade attacks plus "Hammer of Wrath" is really starting to make me curious about this unit. I was giving it gak because they took totem away, but you don't really need to with the large base the thing is on. I'll take one with my next 30 man Bloodletter unit and see what it can do. You're basically deep striking a mini-tank right in front of your opponent, one they can't shoot at until the Bloodletters are gone.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Am I losing my marbles or is a Blood Throne pretty good? Only 5 points more than the JuggerHerald with a way better stateline. The six inch movement doesn't matter anymore since it can deep strike in. The extra attacks plus King of Blades plus the extra Helblade attacks plus "Hammer of Wrath" is really starting to make me curious about this unit. I was giving it gak because they took totem away, but you don't really need to with the large base the thing is on. I'll take one with my next 30 man Bloodletter unit and see what it can do. You're basically deep striking a mini-tank right in front of your opponent, one they can't shoot at until the Bloodletters are gone.

Eh the throne has to wait a turn or try to make a 9" charge. Which is kinda meh for something you are also spending cp just to get it halfway up the table in the first place.

mmimzie wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Am I losing my marbles or is a Blood Throne pretty good? Only 5 points more than the JuggerHerald with a way better stateline. The six inch movement doesn't matter anymore since it can deep strike in. The extra attacks plus King of Blades plus the extra Helblade attacks plus "Hammer of Wrath" is really starting to make me curious about this unit. I was giving it gak because they took totem away, but you don't really need to with the large base the thing is on. I'll take one with my next 30 man Bloodletter unit and see what it can do. You're basically deep striking a mini-tank right in front of your opponent, one they can't shoot at until the Bloodletters are gone.

Eh the throne has to wait a turn or try to make a 9" charge. Which is kinda meh for something you are also spending cp just to get it halfway up the table in the first place.

You spend 1 CP to put something big and scary on your opponent's front door, along with your Bloodletter bomb. +3W, +2A, +3T, +2 little Hellblade attacks for 49 more points. You're basically paying to shove two Heralds together.

Plus you don't NEED to make the initial charge. Chance are your opponent won't be able to get to you at all and you stay within aura range, so on your next turn you roll up and assault in.

I could kinda agree but blood letter do sonm7ch more damage. Any points I'd have to spare on the throne. If sorta just want more bloodletters instead?

Oh also while before you said angroth is close. It still does less against all target. Also that math hammer calc doesn't account for the d3 mortal wounds of 6s .

I put crimson crown on mine and DS with skulltaker and 2 units of 20 bloodletters.

I main WE CSM, and I've been running a small khorne daemons patrol detatchment. I will say this much, for the cost 20 bloodletters + bloodmaster with the crown has been doing so much work for me. From a points efficiency and CP perspective, I am simply amazed at how efficient this unit combo is. 2CP and a little over 200 points has cleared multiple wolfen squads, razorbacks, nid swarms, death company, necron immortal blobs. Might just be my dice being hot, but I'm seriously considering bumping the letters up to 30.

Will it be worth the 2nd CP? Should I get a few more units for another CP to make up for this?
I was thinking to get a few skull cannons to do a spearhead, use them as artillery to soften up big targets for the zerks while the bloodletters play distraction on his flank. 100 points for that cannon seems like a steal to me, and could be a good replacement for the AC havocs I've been using for my "meat tenderizers".
- 3x skullcannons vs 2x 4 AC havoc squads. My main concern is the swing in shot potential.
- 3d6 s8/d3 dmg vs 16 s7/2dmg
- Cannon needs to die for it to drop in firing utility, where as havocs drop fast once the sacrificial champion dies.
- 21 REQ wounds (Can we make this a thing? Rhino Equivilant T7 3+) VS 10 MEQ. Cannons win by a landslide here
- Cannon ignores cover. Matters to me because sniper scouts/grots/rangers are super common in my area, usually sitting atop a tower around an objective so firing ap-2 at a 2+ save with cover, or a 5+without is huge. And yes, I would fire a skullcannon at grots. No kill like overkill.
- Each havoc squad starts losing damage output after the 2nd failed save. Cannon needs to fail 7 armor/invuln, but then I lose a full 1/3 of the damage output of the fire base.

Am I over thinking this? Should I just nut up and get a couple skullcannons and run them, and let the dice gods decide??


Last question. Is skarbrand worth the points? He looks like he hits like a truck, but I tend to shy away from big nasties in general. Most big nasties like that just get erased in a turn from my experience. DS stratagem might help that, but I fell like he'd just be a fire magnet for all the lascannons and krak missiles hiding behind every brick.

mmimzie wrote:
I could kinda agree but blood letter do sonm7ch more damage. Any points I'd have to spare on the throne. If sorta just want more bloodletters instead?

Let's do some mathhammer! For this I'll use: https://www.mathhammer8thed.com/

Pretty cut and dry right? A'rgath does more damage due to making your Herald S8 on the charge, which is pretty crazy. However, more Bloodletters = even more damage. But let's look a little deeper. These units needed to suffer overwatch if they charged, right?

God damn Bolters suck. This at least highlights that you'e losing 50% damage for 50% durability. At least that's something. I suppose an even more realistic approach would be to show GEQ since that'll be what you're slamming into most often, so let's see it!

Yeah OK from a pure damage perspective, more Bloodletters = more damage until you start attack higher toughness things where the higher strength of the Herald can come into play. So the moral of this lesson is-

tosses Blood Throne out window

What was that about a Patrol detachment with 20 Bloodletters and a Bloodmaster again? I think I'll be doing that, or the FA detachment with Flesh Hounds since I have so many left over from KDK days. Maybe I'll kitbash some Skullcannons since I have no ranged at the moment.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-units-codex-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/

Interesting, the Mutalith buffs all Tzeentch units.

Paikkio wrote:
I'm looking for an aggressive Nurgle list: must have epidemius DP drones gou obl nurglings and gnarlmaw.
I'm in doubt about how invest the test of the point.. mortarion or more body

2000 points nurgle Hop Hop
Chaos Daemon Outrider:
Epidemius
2x units of five furies (nurgle)
1x unit of nine pox riders with banner and instrument

Chaos Daemon Outrider:
Prince with corruption walking (nurgle)
2x units of five furies (nurgle)
1x unit of three plague drones
1x unit of giant chaos spawn (nurgle)

Chaos Marines Vanguard:
1x sorc on palaquin with death hex and warptime (nurgle)
3x units of five possessed with despair banner (nurgle)
1x unit of three oblits (nurgle)

The idea here being you have an entire army of extremely fast, extremely tough, and a good combo with the pox riders and daemon prince throwing out a -2 to hit them. Everything is at least keyword daemon nurgle, the CSM stuff is not faction daemon so no strats there. (Loci work though)

Pretty much everything but the two fat guys riding paliquins moves 7 inches or more. (And you have oblits Deep striking as well as the pox rider bomb on turn one if you want.)

Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-units-codex-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/

Interesting, the Mutalith buffs all Tzeentch units.

Horrors just got even more horrifying. S5 attacks? S6 attacks? Sure, why not?

StarHunter25 wrote:
I main WE CSM, and I've been running a small khorne daemons patrol detatchment. I will say this much, for the cost 20 bloodletters + bloodmaster with the crown has been doing so much work for me. From a points efficiency and CP perspective, I am simply amazed at how efficient this unit combo is. 2CP and a little over 200 points has cleared multiple wolfen squads, razorbacks, nid swarms, death company, necron immortal blobs. Might just be my dice being hot, but I'm seriously considering bumping the letters up to 30.

If your Herald is not the Warlord, you should be paying 1CP for that Crown. You should also always be paying the extra 1CP for the Banner of Blood so you don't have to rely on hot dice. That makes your 20 Letters + Herald w/Crown cost 4CP total.

 andysonic1 wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
I main WE CSM, and I've been running a small khorne daemons patrol detatchment. I will say this much, for the cost 20 bloodletters + bloodmaster with the crown has been doing so much work for me. From a points efficiency and CP perspective, I am simply amazed at how efficient this unit combo is. 2CP and a little over 200 points has cleared multiple wolfen squads, razorbacks, nid swarms, death company, necron immortal blobs. Might just be my dice being hot, but I'm seriously considering bumping the letters up to 30.

If your Herald is not the Warlord, you should be paying 1CP for that Crown. You should also always be paying the extra 1CP for the Banner of Blood so you don't have to rely on hot dice. That makes your 20 Letters + Herald w/Crown cost 4CP total.

hmmm that itneresting i don't really run myu blood letters like that. i went from spending cp on deepstriking theh erald and 30 bloodletters all the way down to just deep striking 20bloodletters on their own with banner.

I think the big blood letter bomb has to be pretty 2nd wave or else it can't really take advantage of it's surface area. . So right now i just run a 20man bloodletter squad just to clear out chaffe and such . The only support it might get is from my daemon prince with wings.

I first turn drop 20 blood letters and 30 pink horrors to clear screen, chaffe and scout. While i also drop my two greater daemons, and move forward my 3 daemon princes.

Another thing i just discovered is how awesome spiting is for horrors. They really do work. They drop down and shoot up few blocks of screen, and then they split up into a big monster size hard to kill screen. I think if you use them with spliot it might actualy be worth bring a banner for pinkhorrors as the more you split the worse your morale check can turn out at the end of the turn.

Paikkio wrote:
I'm looking for an aggressive Nurgle list: must have epidemius DP drones gou obl nurglings and gnarlmaw.
I'm in doubt about how invest the test of the point.. mortarion or more body

I've had 2 games with the following. 1 against BA, and the other against infantry DG with poxwalker spam. So I havent had a chance to try against anything slightly mobile lol.

2 battalions
GUO (sword/flail)
Rotigus
Epidemius
Poxbringer
Scriviner
Talons winged DP with horn.
30PB with instrument/icon
5x3 nurglings
1 beast
9 drones with instrument/icon
Gnarlmaw

I start the drones in cover of the gnarlmaw, pointing them at whatever I want to get stuck in with, prince near them as well. Keep the 2 GUO and 30 PB in reserves. Poxbringer and scriviner will advance up to wherever you are trying to drop the PB, poxbringer can also stay close to drones. Both times I've snaked the PB unit into range of the 2 characters, which also helps with DS denial. Prince with horn can do wonders for PB support. Both games my PB havent dropped below 25 because the horn brings so many back. 4 psykers for lots of smite, I give the GUO nurgles rot due to his mobility. Rotigus generally does smite and the nurgle D3 mortal wounds, dealing 2+2d3 mortal wounds a turn, which is pretty nice. I've tried it with the banner for 2dmg on pb, and I don't think they need it. With a herald and scriviner nearby they do plenty. If you really want them to kill something, put the +1 to wound spell on them.

Both games my GUO were above 15 wounds at the end of it. The flail/sword puts out very awesome dmg, and rotigus is no slouch either. You end up with 3 big bullet magnets, enough nurglings to really corner your opponents deep strike, as well as get objectives quick and easy. One game I went first, Drones got a T1 charge, charged as much as they possibly could, PB landed and formed a nice little wall to box his army in. He deep struck a few things to try to get objectives, but nurglings forced them close to a GUO, who cleaned it all up. Second game I got second. Bunch of lascannons into my drones, bolters into nurglings, didn't take much dmg. Second turn I did the same thing and boxed him in. He got up to like 40 poxwalkers, but in one turn I took them down to 5. Drones and PB were doing serious work. Swing with the DP before the PB and you get extra models for more attacks!

Like I mentioned, I havent tried it against any really mobile armies, or faced any fliers yet, only marines on the ground so far. Though it has been very fun!


I've been thinking about Bloat drones, heralds and gnarlmaws. I feel like a list of all that could be really fun. Drop a few gnarlmaws around and you could have a speedy nurgle list, with everything advancing without penalty every turn. Heralds giving the bonus S, epidemius doing what he does, and the spitters dealing some pretty decent dmg.

I have a question, I have recently gotten myself some furies, 10 of them, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them? I was thinking 2 squads of 5 with Mark of tzeench or mark of nurgle, I play soup chaos deamon so loci isn't a thing.

My feeling is squads of 5 are so small that no one is going to focus on them. I can use them as harassment units or objective grabbers with their speed. Slaanesh is out because I don't see any need for fight first and khorne who would make them tougher on the assault doesn't help keep them alive.

I think the only use I will ever have for furies is cheap option to make a brigade.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think the only use I will ever have for furies is cheap option to make a brigade.

Well yeah, that's kind of the other part in wanting them, to help get cheap command points. But I still would like to use them with a plan. Like using them to tie up other small skirmish units, I think they would work well as an option for dealing with other units that have the same job. But is 4++ or 5+++ the way to go? I am thinking 5+++ is better....

But there are stratagems that can make tzeentch units interesting. Especially with tsons coming out soon and I have a tson army.

Yeah, DR is a very useful trait, but also consider the possibility of getting the Locus. I hear the Tzeentch one is much better on the table than on paper. Though Furies will probably be shot to death by bolt guns, youll basically have flying poxwalkers with nurgle, right?

I tried an aggressive Slaanesh deep strike list tonight. My opponent was playing Green Tide Orks. Pink Tide vs Green Tide. This was probably the most outlier battle I could have done for this list. As the Orks matched me in sheer numbers, and the amount of overwatch shots a single unit of Boyz gets is devastating. Ork Boyz are also S4/T4/A2 which makes their fight phase dangerous to T3 daemonettes.

Battalion #1
HQ
Masque of Slaanesh
Herald of Slaanesh
Elites
Fiends of Slaanesh x4
Troops
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x10

Battalion #2
HQ
Herald of Slaanesh
Herald of Slaanesh
Troops
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x10

Battalion #3
HQ
Warlod Daemon Prince with Mark of Excess & Savage Hedonist
Daemon Prince with Wings and Soulstealer (spent a stratagem)
Troops
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x20 + icon + instrument
Daemonettes x10

I won first turn and deep strike the wingless daemon princess, 2 x20 units of daemonettes, and the Fiends of Slaanesh, in. 2 walking units of daemonttes managed to advance as far as the deep striking units. I failed 4/6 charges. Probability wise that is about what it should have been. 2 daemonettes managed to get in. Ironically it was the walking ones. All 4 daemonette units that charged suffered overwatch causalities and dropped below 20-unit size.

The game went back and forth for 2 rounds, but we called it early because it was getting late but the Ork player was probably going to win due to shooting once the main melee combat finished.

If the Ork player had won first turn he would have had effective shooting with his shootas against the daemonettes but wouldn’t have been in charge range. Which would put me at a further disadvantage trying to assault an Ork boy units of 30 with < 20-unit size daemonettes.

Against a different opponent the core problem remains. Getting the charge in from deep strike is a low probability roll. It is also a large CP investment for a Codex that does not have the ability to regain CP.

My take away from this list is the following:
• Fiends of Slaanesh with a moderate point reduction would be a fantastic unit. I kind of wish their claws were -2AP at 46pts though.
• 20 daemonettes doesn’t work very well in play. Although it saves 1 CP when using “Denizens of the Warp” to deploy. Maybe they can deep strike in to charge a unit already engage in combat to avoid overwatch? Although I have a unit locked in combat I don’t think I would often need 20 fresh daemonettes to join in?
• “Denizens of the Warp” stinks for Slaanesh. It negates Slaanesh locus and Slaanesh’ built in speed. Tzeetch & Khorne, gain more from “Denizens of the Warp” as Tzeetch can shoot and Khorne can reroll charges with a locus.
• 2 of my 4 walking daemonette units managed to walk to charge range turn 1.
• If I had taken my normal list of 6 x10 seekers, 3 daemon princes, and 2 heralds of Slaanesh. I would have had no issue having my army in easy charge range turn 1. Dedicating so much of my list and CP to deep striking didn’t really pay off.


I am also struggling to find a place for daemonettes. They require a Herald of Slaanesh nearby to really do damage and is rare that a full-strength unit gets into combat. For defense the Masque is the only option. It just seems like I need to invest a lot of points into support characters to make daemonettes effective in combat.
30 daemonettes vs MEQ will cause 15 slain
30 daemonettes + herald buff vs MEQ will cause 30 slain
30 daemonettes vs GEQ will cause 26 slain
30 daemonettes + herald buff vs GEQ 45 slain

While a Seeker is about 2.7x as much as a Daemonette. They are fast enough to get somewhere and charge in. Seekers at unit size of 10 they are roughly the same price as 30 daemonettes but 10-unit size also makes Seekers less risky for morale loss. At the expense of a lot of claw attacks compared to a 30 size daemonette squad.

I think you have summed demonettes up perfectly, there is something about them that just doesn't work as well as it seems it should. This makes me sad personally because I have quite a few of them already.

Your right though, they need to have a Herald near them to make them really work well.

My thought regarding daemonettes is have them all on the board in max squads and advance them in waves, 1st wave takes fire, 2nd wave remains intact and charges. I think your best bet for slaanesh denizens is to deep strike the big guys like KOS somewhere oos, psychic shenanigans, then engage next turn.

Also I previously mentioned deepstriking Skarbrand near a unit of daemonettes in combat for the +1 attack coupled with all of the psychic support, masque, and herald can make them downright terrifying.

operkoi wrote:
My thought regarding daemonettes is have them all on the board in max squads and advance them in waves, 1st wave takes fire, 2nd wave remains intact and charges. I think your best bet for slaanesh denizens is to deep strike the big guys like KOS somewhere oos, psychic shenanigans, then engage next turn.

Also I previously mentioned deepstriking Skarbrand near a unit of daemonettes in combat for the +1 attack coupled with all of the psychic support, masque, and herald can make them downright terrifying.

Do you bring Skarbrand in an Auxiliary Support Detachment?

For slannesh daemons:

fiends are the MVP. Run lots of those if they start geting stuck in combat they will be near unstopable. with a few chariots in the back that can't be targeted due to fiends locked in combat being in the way.

from there daemonettes while i think (i didn't care to do the math) i believe do more damage getting them into thier dream situation is alot harder. You have to get full surrounds and not kill your prey which is very tough for a on foot based unit.

im playing a list with about 15 noise marines, im thinking about switch them with 25-30 pink horrors supported by fluxmaster is that worth? 90 shots vs 45 but at 4+ than 3+, more or less same resistance ti 4++ vs ta 3+, noise gives me some CC power and they can shoot also if die but they need a way to be delivered where i need, horrors can ds, noise can get votlw for +1 to wound, horrors can have +1 to wound by the spell, and get ti 3++ if needed, bit undecided

ntin wrote:

operkoi wrote:
My thought regarding daemonettes is have them all on the board in max squads and advance them in waves, 1st wave takes fire, 2nd wave remains intact and charges. I think your best bet for slaanesh denizens is to deep strike the big guys like KOS somewhere oos, psychic shenanigans, then engage next turn.

Also I previously mentioned deepstriking Skarbrand near a unit of daemonettes in combat for the +1 attack coupled with all of the psychic support, masque, and herald can make them downright terrifying.

Do you bring Skarbrand in an Auxiliary Support Detachment?

my plan is bring him in a supreme command detachment alongside a khorne herald, dp, and maybe juggernauts

Well colour me impressed. A daemons /death guard list with 500 pts of summoning has made the top 8 at lvo.
And everyone thought summoning was bad.

Now to look up what a vortex aqulia is and why it's worth over 400pts .

he's actually undefeated

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well colour me impressed. A daemons /death guard list with 500 pts of summoning has made the top 8 at lvo.
And everyone thought summoning was bad.

Now to look up what a vortex aqulia is and why it's worth over 400pts .

vortex aquila deal mortal wounds, a resilient fire platform shooting out up to 6d6 mortal wound plus another d6 on 6+ if target survive (plus if you want 12 heavy bolter shots) each time it hits, put inside up to 15 cultists and you fine. Summoning is like having a "sideboard" so you can adjiust ur tactic based on what you are facing, but for me summoning is still not easy to make worth, ha has lot of units which can summon, is another way to counter alpha strikes armies.

He's using 30 Pink Horrors so he's most likely splitting.

Yeah but summoning feels very anti-synergy. Troops don't get obsec, you don't get CP for them, you have to risk the summon roll, you have to have a summoner stand in place....

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well colour me impressed. A daemons /death guard list with 500 pts of summoning has made the top 8 at lvo.
And everyone thought summoning was bad.

Now to look up what a vortex aqulia is and why it's worth over 400pts .

He isn't summoning, he's splitting. The list is a supercharged poxwalker farm; spawn infinite horrors which in turn spawn infinite poxwalkers through Dead Rise Again, which fills the board to such an extent your opponent can't even move.