Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition

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**Mchagen**

mmimzie wrote:
It doesn't matter if they're being targeted or not the transport rules only care about abilities with a range.

Not quite, here's the relevant wording in the rulebook; "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

The last sentence pertains to when a unit with an 'aura' effect is embarked.

**mmimzie**

Mchagen wrote:
mmimzie wrote:
It doesn't matter if they're being targeted or not the transport rules only care about abilities with a range.

Not quite, here's the relevant wording in the rulebook; "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

The last sentence pertains to when a unit with an 'aura' effect is embarked.

fair enough. so it does seem to work work at all.as the targeting verbage doesn't matter. SO i'd say the judge or judges made a bad call here.

**Virules**

orkswubwub wrote:
So i Ran a list essentially DG, CSM and Daemon Soup. 3x PBC (spewers), Deamon Prince / 3 x 3 oblits and sorcerer/lord , 20 letters and some plaguebearers with a khorne prince and poxbringer.

His list:
Changling
CHangecaster
-Grimoire
-Staff of Change
30 Pink horros
10 Brims
10 Brims

Daemon Prince of nurgle w/ wings malefic and 2x talons
Typhus
10 cultists
10 cultists
19 poxwalkers

Vortex Aquila Stronghold.

553 points reinforcements

So looking at the list (and not knowing who you are playing against) one may be inclined to take reaper against this list. That was a huge mistake. Everything basically started embarrked in the aquila aside from 30 pinks. First turn was basically either shoot the pinks or the aquila (for those who don't know 30W at 10T) as all characters were bubble wrapped. I made a beginner mistake (trying to remove said bubble wrap and not ancitipating the split) and dropped in some 20 blood letters who failed a 3d6 charge with a roll of 1, 2, 3

Shot pinks with 4++ and didn't accomplish much. Poxwalkers emerged from the aquila (were embarked so essentially all the troops are untargetable). He popped strat, pinks killed letters, grew literally towards my entire force (every model lets him put one two inches away in any direction) and essentialy wrapped around my entire force with poxwalkers. Everything got stuck and there were no eliglbe targets to kill on my turn. The oblits couldnt' shoot the poxwalkers because they had 3-4 units tied in melee (abusing pile in and consolidate to grow into other units, 3 dead model s= 6 inch tendril). Only eliglibe target the entire game was either aquila or the pinks - which if you shoot will only split and make more poxes. He had 9 CP so essentially just made poxes untargetable if he needed.

Obvious tactics are obvious - walkers were daisy chained to typhus to get blades etc. Horrors always by changeling.

Summoned in a blue scribes too somewhere in there to damn my psychic ability to smite anything and stole death hex (no more casts) also happened to roll treason of tzeentch. He accidentally rolled 3 dice for the treason but it was NBD as I was lost as soon as the poxwalkers had everything in melee (end of turn 1 really).

Don't hold me to the exact ranges he was growing his poxwalkers but that is mroe or less how it worked, after getting one unit in melee he was able to get many other units enmeshed as well and then do what he wanted to take secondary points and outman on the primaries. It isn't the kind of list that tables you but prevents you from taking secondaries. Probably a better bet against this kind of list would be to go behind enemy lines, recon, and another that is more individual of wiping out units. Or to save the bloodletters to clean up the poxes after they try to grow towards the force as they only really have a 5+++ to fall back on - it would significantly shrink the primary win condition.

Pinks never dropped below 21 models as all further damage goes to blues and brims - so dakka stands tall - needless to say all of these blues splitting also adds more poxes.

Also - P.S. Aquila can hurt a lot when it wants to =(

This is from memory so probably some errors, happened first day of tournament.

Did he chain out new models to new areas? Like keep putting new models further and further out to surround your force? Because that's completely illegal. Poxwalkers and Pinks and stuff like that can only add new models within coherency of models that were present at the start of the phase. So you could in theory kill models in psychic phase within coherency of models present start of that phase, then in shooting phase add models within coherency at start of shooting phase, and in assault phase same thing. But if you added the models all in one phase, they can't go very far out from where original squad was.

**JakeSiren**

Virules wrote:

Did he chain out new models to new areas? Like keep putting new models further and further out to surround your force? Because that's completely illegal. Poxwalkers and Pinks and stuff like that can only add new models within coherency of models that were present at the start of the phase. So you could in theory kill models in psychic phase within coherency of models present start of that phase, then in shooting phase add models within coherency at start of shooting phase, and in assault phase same thing. But if you added the models all in one phase, they can't go very far out from where original squad was.

Wait, where does it say that? I couldn't find anything about the "current phase" requirement for Pink Horrors. Chaining looks perfectly legal to me.

**ZergSmasher**

JakeSiren wrote:
Virules wrote:

Did he chain out new models to new areas? Like keep putting new models further and further out to surround your force? Because that's completely illegal. Poxwalkers and Pinks and stuff like that can only add new models within coherency of models that were present at the start of the phase. So you could in theory kill models in psychic phase within coherency of models present start of that phase, then in shooting phase add models within coherency at start of shooting phase, and in assault phase same thing. But if you added the models all in one phase, they can't go very far out from where original squad was.

Wait, where does it say that? I couldn't find anything about the "current phase" requirement for Pink Horrors. Chaining looks perfectly legal to me.

I think it was an FAQ that changed that. It was a nerf to the tactic of chaining Poxwalkers forward via Alpha Legion cultists.

**Virules**

Yeah it's in the FAQ. Applies to any unit that can add models to the unit.

**JakeSiren**

Ah yep, found it in the BRB FAQ on page 3.

**gwarsh41**

Something I hadn't thought of recently with the new book, is looking at the daemon lords again. I know that most everyone here will think they are absolutely terrible outside apoc for fun. With the new greater daemon rules though, are they even worthwhile then?

Look at scabbie, he has +2T, breath attack ++4 invul, +4w an aura and flat 5 dmg.

However I could bring 2 GUO for his price and still have points leftover. I love the model, but it's getting tricky to want to put him on the table when I have a points restriction. I mean, at 10k, sure, who cares, but at 3-6k... eeeh.

**sfshilo**

Playing with a monolist theme here:

Nurgle 2000 points
Battalion Chaos Daemons
2x Daemon princes with wings and swords of nurgle (Miasma on both for flexability)
Epidemius

3x nurgling swarms
1x 30 plaguebearers with instrument and icon

1x unit of plague drones with banner and instrument

2x giant spawn of nurgle

Vanguard Detachment (CSM Renegades)
1x sorceror on palanquin, warlord with unholy fortitude, death hex, and gift of chaos

3x units of possessed with icons of despair

1x unit of oblits

**lindsay40k**

Why Gift of Chaos and not Warptime? Those foot-slogging Possessed are going to have to roll well on their Advances to make contact. And a 6” damage power on a Palanquin is going to struggle to find a target.

Who’s going to be popping out of the Warp? And how large are the drone and possessed units?

**whembly**

Can someone set me straight on Hellforged artefacts?

In the codex it seems the requirement is that the Warlord is a Daemon and that only non-named deamon characters can access Hellforged artefacts...

Could I do the following:
Tz Deamon Prince = Impossible
Nurgle DP = Corruption
Khorne DP = Armor of Scorn

Without paying additional points or CP? (I think all options are 10pts)??

Could I give the Khorne DP both Armour of Scorn AND Skullreaver? Or, is this a situation that I'd have to spend a CP?

**Captyn_Bob**

whembly wrote:
Can someone set me straight on Hellforged artefacts?

In the codex it seems the requirement is that the Warlord is a Daemon and that only non-named deamon characters can access Hellforged artefacts...

Could I do the following:
Tz Deamon Prince = Impossible
Nurgle DP = Corruption
Khorne DP = Armor of Scorn

Without paying additional points or CP? (I think all options are 10pts)??

Could I give the Khorne DP both Armour of Scorn AND Skullreaver? Or, is this a situation that I'd have to spend a CP?

I don't quite understand your question. You get one free relic with your warlord, and can pay CP for up to two more per faction using stratagems.
No-one can be given more than one relic.

**whembly**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
whembly wrote:
Can someone set me straight on Hellforged artefacts?

In the codex it seems the requirement is that the Warlord is a Daemon and that only non-named deamon characters can access Hellforged artefacts...

Could I do the following:
Tz Deamon Prince = Impossible
Nurgle DP = Corruption
Khorne DP = Armor of Scorn

Without paying additional points or CP? (I think all options are 10pts)??

Could I give the Khorne DP both Armour of Scorn AND Skullreaver? Or, is this a situation that I'd have to spend a CP?

I don't quite understand your question. You get one free relic with your warlord, and can pay CP for up to two more per faction using stratagems.
No-one can be given more than one relic.

Sorry... bit sleep deprived.

You've answered my question!

**Azuza001**

I was thinking of trying this for a deamon army, with a small tsons detachment for an obvious reason, what do you guys think?

Deamons part -

Deamon Prince of Tzeench w/ Dual Talons and Impossible Robe
Skulltaker
Changecaster

2 x 3 flamers of tzeench

1X 30 bloodletters
1X 20 demonettes
1X 10 pink horrors

1x 10 furies dedicated to nurgle

Tsons detachment
1 deamon prince w/ dual claws and warlord trait "Otherworldly Presence

Defiler w/ laz cannons
Forgefiend w/ autocannons
Predator w/ laz cannons

The idea is simple, the Tsons stuff except the prince and the changecaster hang out back and become a firing point.

The deamonettes / pinks / flamers / furies are my coverage against chargers / alpha strike. If I lose them I am not too worried, they are there to give me some numbers.

But the real work / threat comes from 2 deamon princes both with default 3++ saves and the 30 bloodletters with skulltaker. Deep strike them in where I need them to and use the bloodletters as a sudo screen to keep the deamon princes as not the closest target for shooting.

Any thoughts? Or am I putting to much work on the big guys and should scrap the invulnerable brothers idea? (BTW, reason I am only using 10 pinks is because that's what I own. Otherwise I think 20 pinks deep striking instead of the 30 bloodletters would be a smarter move since they could kill the chaff and let the dp's get in easier.

**orkswubwub**

Is there any way to run Rotigus well? I kind of like the model and he comes out point for point in a similar tankiness to mortarion - Nurgle seems to be able to do no wrong with psychic abilities (-1 tough, -1 hit, heal d3, nurgle rot, etc.) so the casts seem useful and somewhere just under half the time an extra mortal is popping out for psychic (maybe 1 per turn on two casts?). The flamer seems good (even better with nurgle locus) but range 7 is difficult to manage... At the end of the day I can't think of another way of running him besides deep strike - but he will inevitably fail the charge (or be stuck charging chaffe) and get blown of the table by dark reaper spam, commander spam, etc.

At just over 300 points it doesn't seem debilitating even if he gets blown off - should be a reasonable damage sink (18 wounds, 7T 5++ with a 5+++). - the 2 CP on deepstrike is rough for a CP hungry army - should he not deepstrike and sit in the back with miasma and get healed by a poxbringer? It just seems so tasty to run nurgle rot on him though....

Anyone have any luck maximizing use of the model? How did you do it?

**Dont_Know**

Azuza001 wrote:
I was thinking of trying this for a deamon army, with a small tsons detachment for an obvious reason, what do you guys think?

Deamons part -

Deamon Prince of Tzeench w/ Dual Talons and Impossible Robe
Skulltaker
Changecaster

2 x 3 flamers of tzeench

1X 30 bloodletters
1X 20 demonettes
1X 10 pink horrors

1x 10 furies dedicated to nurgle

Tsons detachment
1 deamon prince w/ dual claws and warlord trait "Otherworldly Presence

Defiler w/ laz cannons
Forgefiend w/ autocannons
Predator w/ laz cannons

The idea is simple, the Tsons stuff except the prince and the changecaster hang out back and become a firing point.

The deamonettes / pinks / flamers / furies are my coverage against chargers / alpha strike. If I lose them I am not too worried, they are there to give me some numbers.

But the real work / threat comes from 2 deamon princes both with default 3++ saves and the 30 bloodletters with skulltaker. Deep strike them in where I need them to and use the bloodletters as a sudo screen to keep the deamon princes as not the closest target for shooting.

Any thoughts? Or am I putting to much work on the big guys and should scrap the invulnerable brothers idea? (BTW, reason I am only using 10 pinks is because that's what I own. Otherwise I think 20 pinks deep striking instead of the 30 bloodletters would be a smarter move since they could kill the chaff and let the dp's get in easier.

I belive that you'd have to pay CP to put the relic on the Daemons Daemon Prince as the thousand son one is your warlord therefore the free one is a thousand sons one

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Hi guys. TS player here, was looking at adding some Tzeentch Daemons to my army. Exalted flamers really caught my eye, The Blue flames really help to shore up my anti tank abilities, the Pink Flames also help fill a slot I have little access to (TS basically have access to S4 AP-2 and mortal wounds when it comes to shooting).

My main questions are

1.) Should I summon them or bring them in a detachment?

2.) Are Exalted Flamers on Discs worth it?

3.) Are there any perticular Combos I should be Intrested in?

**gwarsh41**

orkswubwub wrote:
Is there any way to run Rotigus well? I kind of like the model and he comes out point for point in a similar tankiness to mortarion - Nurgle seems to be able to do no wrong with psychic abilities (-1 tough, -1 hit, heal d3, nurgle rot, etc.) so the casts seem useful and somewhere just under half the time an extra mortal is popping out for psychic (maybe 1 per turn on two casts?). The flamer seems good (even better with nurgle locus) but range 7 is difficult to manage... At the end of the day I can't think of another way of running him besides deep strike - but he will inevitably fail the charge (or be stuck charging chaffe) and get blown of the table by dark reaper spam, commander spam, etc.

At just over 300 points it doesn't seem debilitating even if he gets blown off - should be a reasonable damage sink (18 wounds, 7T 5++ with a 5+++). - the 2 CP on deepstrike is rough for a CP hungry army - should he not deepstrike and sit in the back with miasma and get healed by a poxbringer? It just seems so tasty to run nurgle rot on him though....

Anyone have any luck maximizing use of the model? How did you do it?

Rotigus is a beast and a half. Well worth it over a standard GUO unless you are using the bell with multi wound model unit spam. I've been running a 2 GUO list with rotigus and a sword/flail GUO. After finally remembering everything rotigus has going for him, he is a steal. His staff is pretty terrifying in CC, then he has the D6 mouth attacks to chomp on medium infantry, and the D6 more nurgling attacks to add a little extra oomph. With his mortal wounds ability, have him smite/plague wind every turn to vomit mortal wounds at your opponents. His breath attack is scary enough to make even dreadnoughts think twice about assaulting him.

I highly, highly suggest deep striking him. If you run mono nurgle, you should always deep strike your GUO. 7" move will just have him shot off the table. DS an if you are super worried, the +1 invul strat. I've had them fired at by more than their fair share of lascannons and they have lived. Running 2 is costly, but no one has enough firepower to take 2 in one turn. I've been bringing 2 battalions and only have 3CP to play with, generally burning them all turn 1 or 2 on re-rolling charges from DS, or a stratagem if its needed. Fleshy abundance and the D3 heal strat combined will make a GUO frustratingly tough for an opponent.

**lindsay40k**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Hi guys. TS player here, was looking at adding some Tzeentch Daemons to my army. Exalted flamers really caught my eye, The Blue flames really help to shore up my anti tank abilities, the Pink Flames also help fill a slot I have little access to (TS basically have access to S4 AP-2 and mortal wounds when it comes to shooting).

My main questions are

1.) Should I summon them or bring them in a detachment?

2.) Are Exalted Flamers on Discs worth it?

3.) Are there any perticular Combos I should be Intrested in?

1: If you've got a static gunline element, then there's a lot to be said for having enough reinforcement points to summon. The range buff on Flamers makes them a great thing to drop in front of a horde that's about to make contact - and their speed means they'll probably do something else after stamping out that fire. Exalted Flamers' Pink Fire is more of a side arm, to punish units that try to charge your Blue Fire shooter, and is nowhere near as efficient at dealing with hordes as massed Flamers. Horrors are nice to bring on to fill a hole that's been made by enemy shooting, and can deal with a horde at longer distance than the various Flamers. (Especially if you roll a 12+ for the Summon.)

That said, all kinds of Flamer are also highly mobile, and Screamers are... viable, now. So, you might benefit from a detachment of gribblies starting the game on the table with a mounted Herald of some stripe, and making the most of their high movement. A Vanguard of three EFs and a mounted Herald is certainly a nice asset, though I'd be inclined to add a unit of regular Flamers to screen these Characters.

2: They don't get that option. There's Heralds on Discs, which is a good mobility upgrade, and EFs on Chariots, which completely change their role. Can still hide behind units, can be a bully in melee, can survive a charge from a unit that survived Pink Fire - and leave them with a bloody nose as it flies away. Definitely viable, I'd say.

3: TS Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and Magnus himself, hanging out with a Fateskimmer or Fluxmaster (or, in a pinch, an Exalted Flamer) popping Locus of Conjuration. Wham, re-roll all your failed casts. Especially helpful if you're using the experimental 'Smite gets less reliable' rules.

**mmimzie**

lindsay40k wrote:

3: TS Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and Magnus himself, hanging out with a Fateskimmer or Fluxmaster (or, in a pinch, an Exalted Flamer) popping Locus of Conjuration. Wham, re-roll all your failed casts. Especially helpful if you're using the experimental 'Smite gets less reliable' rules.

waht do you think of the fate skimmer, every time i look at it i feel like a daemon prince is kinda just better. However i think the model is super cool so i sorta really wanna use it <.< hoping you can give me a good excuse haha.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gwarsh41 wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
Is there any way to run Rotigus well? I kind of like the model and he comes out point for point in a similar tankiness to mortarion - Nurgle seems to be able to do no wrong with psychic abilities (-1 tough, -1 hit, heal d3, nurgle rot, etc.) so the casts seem useful and somewhere just under half the time an extra mortal is popping out for psychic (maybe 1 per turn on two casts?). The flamer seems good (even better with nurgle locus) but range 7 is difficult to manage... At the end of the day I can't think of another way of running him besides deep strike - but he will inevitably fail the charge (or be stuck charging chaffe) and get blown of the table by dark reaper spam, commander spam, etc.

At just over 300 points it doesn't seem debilitating even if he gets blown off - should be a reasonable damage sink (18 wounds, 7T 5++ with a 5+++). - the 2 CP on deepstrike is rough for a CP hungry army - should he not deepstrike and sit in the back with miasma and get healed by a poxbringer? It just seems so tasty to run nurgle rot on him though....

Anyone have any luck maximizing use of the model? How did you do it?

Rotigus is a beast and a half. Well worth it over a standard GUO unless you are using the bell with multi wound model unit spam. I've been running a 2 GUO list with rotigus and a sword/flail GUO. After finally remembering everything rotigus has going for him, he is a steal. His staff is pretty terrifying in CC, then he has the D6 mouth attacks to chomp on medium infantry, and the D6 more nurgling attacks to add a little extra oomph. With his mortal wounds ability, have him smite/plague wind every turn to vomit mortal wounds at your opponents. His breath attack is scary enough to make even dreadnoughts think twice about assaulting him.

I highly, highly suggest deep striking him. If you run mono nurgle, you should always deep strike your GUO. 7" move will just have him shot off the table. DS an if you are super worried, the +1 invul strat. I've had them fired at by more than their fair share of lascannons and they have lived. Running 2 is costly, but no one has enough firepower to take 2 in one turn. I've been bringing 2 battalions and only have 3CP to play with, generally burning them all turn 1 or 2 on re-rolling charges from DS, or a stratagem if its needed. Fleshy abundance and the D3 heal strat combined will make a GUO frustratingly tough for an opponent.

I think it really depends on what your targeting. againsta tank the GUO is quitye alot better, while against smaller targets rotigus is abit better. Apart from that the GUO is a better mage with the bile blade. Making miasma go off on a 4 against armies where you really need it is gonna be worth alot more than a wound you only take 2/3rds of the time. While getting virulence blessing off on a 6 will do more damage than the flail wound against multi damage targets. when fighting hordes bonuses to nurgles rot and stream of corruption geting bonuses to cast work out even better. Lastly fleshy abundence syngerizes with a deep striking GUO as he can cut himself, cast miama, and heal up the wound if he took one.

Rotigus does abit more damage against hordes with his mouth and ranged weapon, but the damage he does more to hordes isn't worth his price tag. Other units will do that damage considerably more effeciently and will beable to start puting out damage sooner (mono nurgle plague drones, or daemons as a whole bloodletters/horrors/flamers).

So my money is on the GUO with either sword (if not mono nurgle) or bell (if mono nurgle with lots of beast/nurglings/drones). Then almost always i'd take the bileblade as the flail even in the best case scenarios is kinda vestigile.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Hi guys. TS player here, was looking at adding some Tzeentch Daemons to my army. Exalted flamers really caught my eye, The Blue flames really help to shore up my anti tank abilities, the Pink Flames also help fill a slot I have little access to (TS basically have access to S4 AP-2 and mortal wounds when it comes to shooting).

My main questions are

1.) Should I summon them or bring them in a detachment?

2.) Are Exalted Flamers on Discs worth it?

3.) Are there any perticular Combos I should be Intrested in?

i'd split the different and bring a unit of 20 or 30 spliting horrors depending on your army composition. Then you could use those spliting reinforcement points to also summon with.

**lindsay40k**

mmimzie wrote:
lindsay40k wrote:

3: TS Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and Magnus himself, hanging out with a Fateskimmer or Fluxmaster (or, in a pinch, an Exalted Flamer) popping Locus of Conjuration. Wham, re-roll all your failed casts. Especially helpful if you're using the experimental 'Smite gets less reliable' rules.

waht do you think of the fate skimmer, every time i look at it i feel like a daemon prince is kinda just better. However i think the model is super cool so i sorta really wanna use it <.< hoping you can give me a good excuse haha.

TS DP:
- M12, FLY
- 7 x WS2 S7 AP2 D2 attack
- T6 W8 3+/4++
- Know and cast 2 spells, eighteen to choose from
- use TS stratagems
- Reroll 1’s aura affects all TS and Tzeentch Daemon units
- Can benefit from Warptime and Diabolical Strength

CD DP:
- M12, FLY
- 7 x WS2 S7 AP2 D2 attack
- T6 W8 3+/4++
- Know and cast 1 spell, six to choose from
- use CD Stratagems - re-rolling failed spells aura
- Reroll 1’s aura affects Tzeentch Daemon units

FS:
- M14, FLY
- 6 x WS4 S6 AP3 D2 attack + 3 x WS4 S3(4) AP1 D1 self-healing attacks
- T5 W8 4++
- Know 2 and cast 1 spell, six to choose from, also 24” Smite
- use CD Stratagems - re-rolling failed spells aura
- +1S aura affects Tzeentch Daemon units, including shooting attacks of Flamer, EF, and Pink Horrors
- 1 to enemy psychic powers within 9”

If you’re taking a DP, it wants to be TS - Fateskimmer absolutely has a role to play as the dedicated Daemon support leader in your Daemon Detachment. Large footprint means it can spread the +1S love around. Direct a squadron of Screamers to tear apart a light to medium vehicle, super-charge the shooting of some Flamers or Horrors, tag team with a Thousand Sons Daemon Prince to make sure it casts what it needs to cast. If you get the opportunity, it can take down an enemy support character, but be careful not to get revenge killed.

**TwinPoleTheory**

lindsay40k wrote:
If you’re taking a DP, it wants to be TS - Fateskimmer absolutely has a role to play as the dedicated Daemon support leader in your Daemon Detachment. Large footprint means it can spread the +1S love around. Direct a squadron of Screamers to tear apart a light to medium vehicle, super-charge the shooting of some Flamers or Horrors, tag team with a Thousand Sons Daemon Prince to make sure it casts what it needs to cast. If you get the opportunity, it can take down an enemy support character, but be careful not to get revenge killed.

I love the TS DP, enough that I keep thinking that there must be something good in the TS codex that's not a goat. However, I keep coming back to Daemonspark (and to a lesser extent Flickering Flames), it's currently the only way to get any sort of wound re-roll on shooting attacks that Chaos has, but perhaps I'm getting tunnel vision.

**kodos**

Instead of adding some Demons to a TS army, the idea would be to add some TS to a Demon army

I somehow like the idea to get my old TS models back on the table,

Could something like this work?

Battalion Detachment
Ahriman on Disc
2*Daemon Prince
2*5 Rubric Marines
1*10 Chaos Cultists

Battalion Detachment
2*Fluxmaster
1*20 x Pink Horrors
2*10 Brimestone
5*Exalted Flamer

Vanguard Detachment
The Changeling
3*3 Flamers

**Mchagen**

Has the omission of the reduced smite power for fewer than 10 pink horrors in the Thousand Sons Horrors entry been discussed at all? I'm trying to figure out if this was intentionally left out, considering how close together the Thousand Sons and Chaos Daemons books were released. Do they think they underpowered blues and brimstones and are reverting some of it back, or was it just missed on accident?

Here's the sentence which is lacking from the Horror entry in the Thousand Sons codex.
"In addition, if the unit manifest the Smite psychic power whilst it contains less than 10 Pink Horror models, it only inflicts 1 mortal wound rather than D3."

I'm not sure why gw needs to create these types of disparities between units in separate codex books that should be all but identical in data sheet stats. The Thousand Sons daemon prince is just bad design when it outclasses the Chaos Daemon version for the exact same cost.

Unless these types of issues are addressed in upcoming FAQ/errata updates, it starts to fall back into codex creep.

**Azuza001**

Mchagen wrote:
Has the omission of the reduced smite power for fewer than 10 pink horrors in the Thousand Sons Horrors entry been discussed at all? I'm trying to figure out if this was intentionally left out, considering how close together the Thousand Sons and Chaos Daemons books were released. Do they think they underpowered blues and brimstones and are reverting some of it back, or was it just missed on accident?

Here's the sentence which is lacking from the Horror entry in the Thousand Sons codex.
"In addition, if the unit manifest the Smite psychic power whilst it contains less than 10 Pink Horror models, it only inflicts 1 mortal wound rather than D3."

I'm not sure why gw needs to create these types of disparities between units in separate codex books that should be all but identical in data sheet stats. The Thousand Sons daemon prince is just bad design when it outclasses the Chaos Daemon version for the exact same cost.

Unless these types of issues are addressed in upcoming FAQ/errata updates, it starts to fall back into codex creep.

My money is on a faq fix there.

**mmimzie**

Azuza001 wrote:
Mchagen wrote:
Has the omission of the reduced smite power for fewer than 10 pink horrors in the Thousand Sons Horrors entry been discussed at all? I'm trying to figure out if this was intentionally left out, considering how close together the Thousand Sons and Chaos Daemons books were released. Do they think they underpowered blues and brimstones and are reverting some of it back, or was it just missed on accident?

Here's the sentence which is lacking from the Horror entry in the Thousand Sons codex.
"In addition, if the unit manifest the Smite psychic power whilst it contains less than 10 Pink Horror models, it only inflicts 1 mortal wound rather than D3."

I'm not sure why gw needs to create these types of disparities between units in separate codex books that should be all but identical in data sheet stats. The Thousand Sons daemon prince is just bad design when it outclasses the Chaos Daemon version for the exact same cost.

Unless these types of issues are addressed in upcoming FAQ/errata updates, it starts to fall back into codex creep.

My money is on a faq fix there.

This kind of doesn't even need faq you could just use the Tsons horrors and call it a day.

lindsay40k wrote:

TS DP:
- M12, FLY
- 7 x WS2 S7 AP2 D2 attack
- T6 W8 3+/4++
- Know and cast 2 spells, eighteen to choose from
- use TS stratagems
- Reroll 1’s aura affects all TS and Tzeentch Daemon units
- Can benefit from Warptime and Diabolical Strength

CD DP:
- M12, FLY
- 7 x WS2 S7 AP2 D2 attack
- T6 W8 3+/4++
- Know and cast 1 spell, six to choose from
- use CD Stratagems - re-rolling failed spells aura
- Reroll 1’s aura affects Tzeentch Daemon units

FS:
- M14, FLY
- 6 x WS4 S6 AP3 D2 attack + 3 x WS4 S3(4) AP1 D1 self-healing attacks
- T5 W8 4++
- Know 2 and cast 1 spell, six to choose from, also 24” Smite
- use CD Stratagems - re-rolling failed spells aura
- +1S aura affects Tzeentch Daemon units, including shooting attacks of Flamer, EF, and Pink Horrors
- 1 to enemy psychic powers within 9”

If you’re taking a DP, it wants to be TS - Fateskimmer absolutely has a role to play as the dedicated Daemon support leader in your Daemon Detachment. Large footprint means it can spread the +1S love around. Direct a squadron of Screamers to tear apart a light to medium vehicle, super-charge the shooting of some Flamers or Horrors, tag team with a Thousand Sons Daemon Prince to make sure it casts what it needs to cast. If you get the opportunity, it can take down an enemy support character, but be careful not to get revenge killed.

the fate seer can't use the stratagem to help the DP, is thier someother way it helps??

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

lindsay40k wrote:
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Hi guys. TS player here, was looking at adding some Tzeentch Daemons to my army. Exalted flamers really caught my eye, The Blue flames really help to shore up my anti tank abilities, the Pink Flames also help fill a slot I have little access to (TS basically have access to S4 AP-2 and mortal wounds when it comes to shooting).

My main questions are

1.) Should I summon them or bring them in a detachment?

2.) Are Exalted Flamers on Discs worth it?

3.) Are there any perticular Combos I should be Intrested in?

1: If you've got a static gunline element, then there's a lot to be said for having enough reinforcement points to summon. The range buff on Flamers makes them a great thing to drop in front of a horde that's about to make contact - and their speed means they'll probably do something else after stamping out that fire. Exalted Flamers' Pink Fire is more of a side arm, to punish units that try to charge your Blue Fire shooter, and is nowhere near as efficient at dealing with hordes as massed Flamers. Horrors are nice to bring on to fill a hole that's been made by enemy shooting, and can deal with a horde at longer distance than the various Flamers. (Especially if you roll a 12+ for the Summon.)

That said, all kinds of Flamer are also highly mobile, and Screamers are... viable, now. So, you might benefit from a detachment of gribblies starting the game on the table with a mounted Herald of some stripe, and making the most of their high movement. A Vanguard of three EFs and a mounted Herald is certainly a nice asset, though I'd be inclined to add a unit of regular Flamers to screen these Characters.

2: They don't get that option. There's Heralds on Discs, which is a good mobility upgrade, and EFs on Chariots, which completely change their role. Can still hide behind units, can be a bully in melee, can survive a charge from a unit that survived Pink Fire - and leave them with a bloody nose as it flies away. Definitely viable, I'd say.

3: TS Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and Magnus himself, hanging out with a Fateskimmer or Fluxmaster (or, in a pinch, an Exalted Flamer) popping Locus of Conjuration. Wham, re-roll all your failed casts. Especially helpful if you're using the experimental 'Smite gets less reliable' rules.

The main idea was to run the Exalted Flamers behind the Rubrics forcing my melee focused enemies to either charge both and end up with additional flamer shots hitting on overwatch, or if they dont include the Exalted flamer in the charge he can do a heroic intervention and gets a free turn to beat on the enemy while the Rubrics take most of the hits.

Ranged armies I would summon the Chariots instead getting the extra movement to start killing things turn 2 at the latest.

I was also wondering about summoning are you allowed to bring any upgrades on the summoned unit?

**lindsay40k**

@mmimzie - Chaos Daemons Stratagems cannot be played on Heretic Astartes models, but the auras they generate (Loci) can affect any proximate models with the DAEMON and DEITY keyword. Though I take the point that there’ll be some opponents who’ll refuse this interpretation, best to check with TO’s if you’re in that scene.

**Porphyrius**

I've recently acquired a variety of Slaanesh daemons, and I'm thinking of creating a detachment to supplement my Emperor's Children. I know that the Slaanesh daemons aren't the highest-regarded in the new codex, but I was hoping to get some advice on what to use/how to use them?

I currently have access to about 35 daemonettes, 15 seekers, the masque of slaanesh, and an unassembled exalted seeker chariot. I know that the mount options were removed for Slaaneshi heralds in the codex, but I was thinking of running the index version and putting a herald on the chariot.

Can anyone give me some advice? Thanks!

**gwarsh41**

From the little slaanesh I have seen, apparently chariots are pretty nice these days.