Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Blackie wrote: How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle
I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.
Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.
Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakka Wolf wrote: My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.
How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.
So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.
What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!
Blackie wrote: How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle
I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.
Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.
Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakka Wolf wrote: My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.
How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.
I can't imagine a stormwolf with Ulric and Lukas plus blood claws surviving long enough to move forward and then unload the next turn. It is just too dangerous not to focus on and kill. I would probably put them in separate 9 man squads in 2 different rhinos so it not as simple to shut them both down. A landraider might also work since they are much harder to kill, but they also cost a ton, so idk, but i tend to prefer to give the enemy 3-3 equal targets instead of 1 big one.
As for taking the characters in the first place, I would probably only take Lukas in a list with 20-30 blood claws, as he is just a little bit better than having a lord or a WGBL around, costs more, and only effects the blood claws so its not really worth it to have much else nearby compared to a lord or battle leader. Ulric seems decent, but it's probably not that easy to actually unlock his re-rolls to wound buff., meaning he might as well just be a normal footslogging wolf priest in most games. In general I think that Blood Claws are "good enough" without much more than a WGBL, and I don't want to spend a bunch of points on buffing a unit that charges in, blows something up, and then dies as easily as any other marines.
This is 8th Edition so it is a lot tougher than it was. With 14 Wounds and 3+ Save it should survive a few turns unless they have some real dedicated AAA and then they will be leaving a lot of other things alone to kill it off.
Aetare wrote: Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...
Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.
The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.
I viewed it as listing the only things that can carry Wulfen from the regular Space Marines entry. It's listing what we can use from the regular SM armory, then lists what from that armory may transport Wulfen. As that key word won't show up in regular SM data sheets. Especially since they're treated like Terminators for the Land Raider and you can't take Terminators in a drop pod. So while it doesn't explicitly stop you from taking them in a Dpod... I think RAI would say you can't take one. Otherwise you could take them in a Rhino or Razorback.
So the blurb about the LR in the beginning of the SW section states "These vehicles can also transport Wulfen. Each Wulfen model takes the space of two other models". I think this is meant to be added onto the regular LR ruling of "...each Jump Pack or Terminator model takes the space of two other models..." to make it become "...each Jump Pack, Terminator, or Wulfen model takes the space of two other models..."
Even though they are listed as Infantry, I'm pretty sure you can't take drop pods or rhinos because, for example with the Stormfang, it explicitly states it can transport wulfen but it's still slightly unclear. Why wouldn't they just list wulfen with the "can not transport" portion if you couldn't? We can just chalk this up to good ole' GW writing.
So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.
What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!
Three Shield Dreads in a triangle with loaded Long Fangs and an Iron Priest or two between them.
Aetare wrote: Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...
Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.
The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.
I viewed it as listing the only things that can carry Wulfen from the regular Space Marines entry. It's listing what we can use from the regular SM armory, then lists what from that armory may transport Wulfen. As that key word won't show up in regular SM data sheets. Especially since they're treated like Terminators for the Land Raider and you can't take Terminators in a drop pod. So while it doesn't explicitly stop you from taking them in a Dpod... I think RAI would say you can't take one. Otherwise you could take them in a Rhino or Razorback.
So the blurb about the LR in the beginning of the SW section states "These vehicles can also transport Wulfen. Each Wulfen model takes the space of two other models". I think this is meant to be added onto the regular LR ruling of "...each Jump Pack or Terminator model takes the space of two other models..." to make it become "...each Jump Pack, Terminator, or Wulfen model takes the space of two other models..."
Even though they are listed as Infantry, I'm pretty sure you can't take drop pods or rhinos because, for example with the Stormfang, it explicitly states it can transport wulfen but it's still slightly unclear. Why wouldn't they just list wulfen with the "can not transport" portion if you couldn't? We can just chalk this up to good ole' GW writing.
Can't we always - check out some of the unit photos for the Space Wolves in Index: Imperium 1, complete with no longer legal loadouts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 09:41:02
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.
Main problem with my army is that I don't have any other vehicle than a stormwolf and 3 pods. I hate SM vehicles and no way I would use them With the new codex I'm focussed around a list with 10 thunderwolves (eventually promoting one of them as an HQ), a rune priest on bike, 15 wulfen and 5 long fangs. In order to have more CP I need to field some troops and I'm oriented in min grey hunters squads as I don't have many points left. Basically the same list that I used to play in 7th without the grey hunters in drop pods joined by the wyrdstorm brotherhood, but only with fewer troop models which are footslogging now.
Alternatively I'd like to play a list with all my infantries models, 15 blood claws and 3x10 grey hunters other than long fangs. This way I wouldn't have enough points for both TWC and wulfen, and I guess I will be forced to ditch the thunderwolves. In fact with 15 wulfen, ulrik and a rune priest on bike I'm already at 1995 points, without lukas though. Looks like a 100% fluffy list, no chance to compete against any decent list.
I'm also considering to add a second unit of long fangs, lascannons this time, and a couple of dreads, which looks way better now. Maybe a land raider crusader to deliver the big blob but I'm not fond of the model and I would buy it only with a significant price cut.
So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.
Main problem with my army is that I don't have any other vehicle than a stormwolf and 3 pods. I hate SM vehicles and no way I would use them With the new codex I'm focussed around a list with 10 thunderwolves (eventually promoting one of them as an HQ), a rune priest on bike, 15 wulfen and 5 long fangs. In order to have more CP I need to field some troops and I'm oriented in min grey hunters squads as I don't have many points left. Basically the same list that I used to play in 7th without the grey hunters in drop pods joined by the wyrdstorm brotherhood, but only with fewer troop models which are footslogging now.
Alternatively I'd like to play a list with all my infantries models, 15 blood claws and 3x10 grey hunters other than long fangs. This way I wouldn't have enough points for both TWC and wulfen, and I guess I will be forced to ditch the thunderwolves. In fact with 15 wulfen, ulrik and a rune priest on bike I'm already at 1995 points, without lukas though. Looks like a 100% fluffy list, no chance to compete against any decent list.
I'm also considering to add a second unit of long fangs, lascannons this time, and a couple of dreads, which looks way better now. Maybe a land raider crusader to deliver the big blob but I'm not fond of the model and I would buy it only with a significant price cut.
Wolf Scouts mate.
Wolf Scouts can pseudo fill the role of both Long Fangs and Grey Hunters - they don't need Drop Pods and they cost less than either.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Has anyone noticed who in our army can take melta bombs? I can't seem to find them even mentioned it the space wolves section. I want to run a very combat oriented army and was hoping my pack leaders could take them.
2017/06/22 03:25:47
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Trying to squeeze a battalion detachment
So far I have
HQ - 3x WGBL 180pts
Troops
- 3x Blood Claws 195
- 3x Grey Hunters 210
Elites
- 3x Wolf Scouts 165
Heavy Support
- 3x Long Fangs 225
Fast Attack
- 3x Sky Claws 240
Grand total of 1215 points
Any ideas for fleshing it out to a 2000 point list?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/22 11:53:03
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
I think i've got it. An unfluffy, dishonourable approach, but this is the cheapest, most points effective way to bring fiery death IMO.
5 x WG w/ jumpacks, combi-melta, SS and chainsaw. 225 pts. 5 x melta on deepstrike, 3+ invul on all, 3 attacks in melee, 12" move (12"+12"+D6" effective range).
50 pts cheaper than 5 x WG w/ TDA combi-melta, powersword for: -1 W, +1 A, no -3 rend, +7" move, 1 less armor, and 3+ invul instead of 5+. Can also disengage and shoot in the same round.
Seems like to way to go to maximize loadout. Strictly better specialized for the job of hunting tanks.
Pretty crazy that WG can exchange their pistol for a 5 pts 3+ invul save in the SS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is probably an error, since WGBL can't select a similar loadout.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 12:05:39
For the unfluffy stuff, add Wolfguard on Bikes with Kombimelter and Stormshield
5 x = 290 points, 14+6+12 effective Range and if needed can do 15 Bolter shots (or 10 on a different target)
But I always wanted to build a unit of WolfGuard with Jump Packs using the BA Wings
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
It was already the best in 7th but using a Drop Pod was just the better option for it.
Now it is more like the question using Jump Packs to get fly or Bikes for more speed (I would gor for WG with jump packs and Swiftclaws instead of WG on Bikes and Skyclaws)
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Anybody got an opinion on a max dreadnought list? Something like 2 vanguard detachments at 2000 points with HQs of Bjorn and an iron priest and the rest consisting of 11 dreadnoughts. My preliminary build is 10 with heavy plasma cannons, wolf claws, and storm bolters with the 11th carrying an assault cannon. I'm thinking of changing things up a bit, wanted to see your opinions.
My thought is to run them in a loose block formation with Bjorn in the middle, keeping 3" separation in case of exploding dreadnoughts with the iron priest running around and repairing when he can. Gave him a thunderwolf to let him keep up with the dreadblock's 8" move.
The loose block means I'll only get Bjorn's aura for 8 dreads, so I'm considering changing the armaments for the remainder for long range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 15:18:13
Hi guys. I've been playing wolves for years semi competitive but mainly friendly.
After reading through here is my two pence worth
All dred list / Thunderwolves heavy list. - Your opponent sits up in ruins or buildings and you can't get to them. I had this the other night and the bystanders thought it was hilarious as my wolves just ran round chasing their tails getting picked off by shooting.
Wulfen heavy - 1 bad turn of armour saves ruins the game. Seems obvious but it can so easily happen. I had two units move forward supported by TWC. Only two models made it to combat and my game was over turn 2
Wolf priest jump pack
WGBL with jump pack
Rune priest with jump pack for cover spell
Between them they take out anything
2 units of skyclaws run round grabbing objectives/supporting Wulfen. I keep another WGBL with a jump nearby pack to buff.
Each has a powerfist. So far one of these is a hero taking down an Archeon and Sammiel by himself!
Ven Dred with tl autocannon and assualt cannon
Predator with autocannon and lascannons
Long fangs - 2las/2missile
These sit back and hit the big stuf. Wiith combined fire I have so far been reliably taking down a 10 wound model per turn and stripping wounds from others depending on how well my D6 damage rolls go
A unit of scouts with sniper have been stripping a wound or two where needed
Finally a landraider crusader gives me the option to run my Wulfen forward. However this paints a big X on it and doesn't get far. But I keep it for the option depending on terrain, enemy and mission etc. And of course it's gonna mess up a horde unit before getting bogged down in combat
Most importantly it's a fun list to play with something to do in each phase
What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!
That is a lot less important than it used to be. Bjorn is a character and so he cannot be shot at unless he is the closest target. Keep the shield Dreads slightly in front and they can cover for Bjorn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Personally I am liking the Long Fangs rerolling 1s when they focus fire without a Character nearby. I plan to abuse this with 5 plasma cannons and overcharge them anytime they fire at anything tougher than basic infantry.
I have always had an unhealthy fondness for plasma!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 17:57:06
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
Northern85Star wrote: I think i've got it. An unfluffy, dishonourable approach, but this is the cheapest, most points effective way to bring fiery death IMO.
5 x WG w/ jumpacks, combi-melta, SS and chainsaw. 225 pts. 5 x melta on deepstrike, 3+ invul on all, 3 attacks in melee, 12" move (12"+12"+D6" effective range).
50 pts cheaper than 5 x WG w/ TDA combi-melta, powersword for: -1 W, +1 A, no -3 rend, +7" move, 1 less armor, and 3+ invul instead of 5+. Can also disengage and shoot in the same round.
Seems like to way to go to maximize loadout. Strictly better specialized for the job of hunting tanks.
Pretty crazy that WG can exchange their pistol for a 5 pts 3+ invul save in the SS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is probably an error, since WGBL can't select a similar loadout.
There is reason, models with one wound often can't get maximum benefit from save bonuses, look at Terminators in the last edition - cough up twenty points for a 2+ and 5++ save, roll a one and lose it all to a single las pistol shot.
With Command Points freak accidents like that are less likely but there's still that one time you lose both the model and the Command Point.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.
So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.
Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.
Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.
So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.
Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.
Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?
The dreadnought inside must immediately disembark like a normal pod. It can also only carry 1 dreadnought unit. It actually specifies that it may only carry a dreadnought now as well. It doesn't come with any weapons or anything either. It costs 120 points.
I feel like 120 points isn't a terrible investment for slamming a couple axe and board dreads into someones face.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 01:43:48
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.
So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.
Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.
Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?
The dreadnought inside must immediately disembark like a normal pod. It can also only carry 1 dreadnought unit. It actually specifies that it may only carry a dreadnought now as well. It doesn't come with any weapons or anything either. It costs 120 points.
I feel like 120 points isn't a terrible investment for slamming a couple axe and board dreads into someones face.
The Lucius only ever carried Dreads, you don't use them for slamming the Dread in their face in this edition - since they arrive when you want them to between turns one and the end of your turn three movement phase you have a lot more flexibility to put them down where they present the most threat, and since Heavy Flamers fall an inch short of the enemy you're putting them down differently too, now you drop them in response to your opponent's movements - forcing them to keep bunched until the Dread lands or suffering it tearing into their loose ends.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/27 00:11:52
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
On a secondary note, I know anpu did a review of the wolf guard terminators but how does everyone feel about running them? I'm currently torn between pure stormshield thunderhammer or having al the regular guys use frost axes while the squad leader uses a thunderhammer and pairing them with arjac.
I suppose both of the last two questions are difficult because they're subjective.
I personally run my wulfen with 2 th/ss, 2 great axes and the pack leader. I also run them on foot. I'm looking at putting them into a landraider but... not sure.
I run 2th/ss, 2 axes and a leader, always on foot, too. I've magnetized the guys with the axes in order to have the possibility to equip them with th/ss or claws. At least two with th/ss are mandatory for the invuln, and you must include a pack leader with claws, the remaining ones are optional.
About land raiders, I think I will keep my wulfen footsloggers, if I have to buy a big transport it will be a crusader carrying a blob of blood claws, which are quite improved now.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: On a secondary note, I know anpu did a review of the wolf guard terminators but how does everyone feel about running them? I'm currently torn between pure stormshield thunderhammer or having al the regular guys use frost axes while the squad leader uses a thunderhammer and pairing them with arjac.
Still making up my mind. Probably 2 TH/SS and 3 with SS and either a single Wolf Claw or a frost weapon. Saves quite a few points and just as effective against infantry while only losing a bit vs tough targets.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
I would save points by taking wolf claws. It's already an expensive unit, instead focusing on utilizing their aura instead of making a strong unit even stronger.
And something entirely different: wolf priest and lone wolves with storm shield sounds fun. If they're killed and get back up, you heal them. Not sure they do enough damage though, but if the wolf priest doesnt die they're nearly unkillable in TDA (2+/3++/4+revive). Expensive though.
Assassins are really cheap characters for what they do! Consider allying. They can wreak havoc while the wolves close in.
Iron priests: ALWAYS on bike. For 9 pts you get +1 W, +1 T, 14" move and twin bolters. A bargain. Thunderwolf is nice due to the iron priests 2+ WS, but i think the points are better spend elsewhere, especially since the iron priest is best used against vehicles (certainly not against models with high rend).
Wolf Lord: Always gear your wolf lord with combi weapon to use his 2+ BS. If you want all melee character, a WGBL is stronger in melee with SS (SS on Lord is a waste due to Belt of Russ).
Wolf priest with thunderwolves is a must? Real strong combo.
Jet packs are cheap ways to give characters with default invul save mobility and deepstrike.
That's all i could come up with for now This is based on mathhammering.
2017/06/27 15:35:32
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:
- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.
- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.
- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.
- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).
- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below
- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.
- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.
- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.
- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.
- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...
- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.
- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---
Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
or
2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/27 15:42:07
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
