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Ragnar69 wrote:
But would you really field helfrost? I find it sub-par compared to the other options.

Well they could overhaul the rules and balance the points properly. All I'm saying that there's potential to make them unique and usable. Like mortal wounds on sixes to wound or whatever.

 Weazel wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:
Murderfang cant be a warlord can he??? hes insane!!

Any model in your army can be the warlord. If said model is also a Character you get to pick a warlord trait.

Murderfang is listed as a character, but he's not an HQ. I thought that only HQ and character LoWs can have WL traits.

Pandabeer wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:
Murderfang cant be a warlord can he??? hes insane!!

Any model in your army can be the warlord. If said model is also a Character you get to pick a warlord trait.

Murderfang is listed as a character, but he's not an HQ. I thought that only HQ and character LoWs can have WL traits.

Nowhere does it say the warlord needs to have a specific battlefield role. Murderfang is perfectly eligible for WL traits.

But he’s a heretic!

Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?

I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.

The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.

Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?

Well, fluff wise, Space Wolves have a good relationship with AM detachments they interact with. Generally coming to calls for aid.

I think it depends on how you run your wolves. If you run lots of grey hunters or blood claws, maybe the Knight? If you run a more elite list, run the AM? Whatever you're lacking, fill the hole I suppose.

I sometimes add a Knight to my Wolves for larger fights. It is great fun but one heck of a fire-magnet. He doesn't normally last past Turn 2 but he usually makes a big dent in the enemy before he goes down and attracts so much firepower that the rest of my army can just stroll up to the enemy and start butchering them.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Well, fluff wise, Space Wolves have a good relationship with AM detachments they interact with. Generally coming to calls for aid.

I think it depends on how you run your wolves. If you run lots of grey hunters or blood claws, maybe the Knight? If you run a more elite list, run the AM? Whatever you're lacking, fill the hole I suppose.

I'd go for the opposite: do you bring tons of multiwounds models that can be crippled by the enemy anti tank? Bring the knight, it will soak a lot of hits, saving your elites. Do you plan on bringing massive SW infantries? Then AM guards can complete the list basically invalidating the opponent anti tank, like the green tide concept for the orks.

At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?

BTW, all the characters that have been out of stock for quite some time are available again. Yesterday they still have been unavailable.
I have already snatched Canis and TDA Njal on ebay because I was fearing the worst

There will be a 2000 point tournament with random missions in March. I'm probbaly bring

Battallion
Logan
Njal TDA
3x GHs with 2 plasma, power axe, WGPL with combiplasma/frost sword, 2 in Rhinos, 1 outflanking

Outrider
WGBL, jump, TH/SS
5 fenrisan wolves
3x 1 Cyberwolf

Vanguard
Arjac
5 WG, jump, chainsword, combiplasma
5 TDA with various weapons
5 Wulfen with various weapons, outflank

The Plan is to just start with the squads in rhinos and the wolves on the board to prevent enemy alpha strikes. The rest will DS/outflank to concentrate on a flank while getting as many character buffs as possible.

Seems like there was a SW list in top 10 at LVO. Anyone got any intel about the list? Betting it wasn't pure wolves tho.

The top 10 list was imperium not wolves. But it had harald 4 thunder lords a wgbl on wolf and 5 cyberwolves. The rest of army was blange characters in supreme command and ig troops.

 Weazel wrote:
Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?

I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.

The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.

Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?

I've been working on an AM detachment made of Scions to drop down to grab objectives/deep strike with some LRBT to have some inexpensive fire support.

 Weazel wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:
Murderfang cant be a warlord can he??? hes insane!!

Any model in your army can be the warlord. If said model is also a Character you get to pick a warlord trait.

Murderfang is listed as a character, but he's not an HQ. I thought that only HQ and character LoWs can have WL traits.

Nowhere does it say the warlord needs to have a specific battlefield role. Murderfang is perfectly eligible for WL traits.

Yeh my bad i must be confused with someone else, was thinking he had a rule no WL. but now i cant think of who that might have been.

 Weazel wrote:
Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?

I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.

The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.

Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?

I run both guard and wolves. My favorite guard setup to toss in is a cadian spearhead woth 3-4 heavy weapon teams with full on lascannons (9-12) and a company commander with laurels of command and master of command. Stand still. Supply refills of 1,s and 2s. Put the hurting. For well under 300 points can get 9 lascanons that outshoot and undercoat the long fang options. The drawback is they struggle to get as good LOS or cover and it adds two drops, making first turn less like

One of the guys I played against runs AM for tanks and command points but then drops Bjorn, one rifle dread, Logan in TDA armour and two full squad of Wulfen into the mix.

The tanks and Dreads hold the line and the Wulfen rock up with cunning of the wolf to hunt any tank-hunters or titans, Logan drops in nearby to give the Wulfen with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields re-rolls to hit.

The biggest issue according to him is facing other Deepstrike armies.

 Weazel wrote:
At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?

You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.

 thefallenjackal wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?

You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.

Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th. I wanted so much to believe that a mainly CC army was viable but no, it just doesn't work. At least not with Wolves that is. Not enough damage and the fall back mechanics are just detrimental to our performance.

Wulfen were great, they have the speed and the hitting power to truly make an impact in CC. Also their bubbles are pretty nifty if you want to run other assaulty elements. However they drop pretty fast to shooting once their initial target is destroyed / falls back.

Terminator are just plain bad. They are very slow and they lack the oomph. And while 2W and 2+/3++ is decent they just drop to focused fire once their target has fallen back from melee.

TWC are fast and pretty durable, but they seriously lack in the damage department. 2 attacks per dude is just way too few. I'm not saying I want 5 S10 attacks back (well I kinda do ) but they need something more to make them a worthwhile pick.

This is kinda contradictory since I won the game and it was against none other than CWE. However my mate was very rusty and I managed to catch him off-guard with my Wulfen, Arjac and 2 packs of Terminators successfully pulling off 3 charges of 4. After the initial hit it was an uphill battle for me. Had he not lost his Dark Reapers first turn I would surely have lost in a big way.

This is why I acquired some IG tanks and infantry and I'm going to push my lists towards way more dakka and much fewer (if any) dedicated assault elements.

TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.

Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.

Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.

 Blackie wrote:
TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.

Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.

Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.

I know how the TWC work, and while the wolves can bite I still feel they are not overly effective against anything but light/medium infantry, even with the TH mixed in. In 7th they were our heavy hitters, but sure enough their role is completely different now. The only things that are very good at hitting heavily in CC are the Dreads, but we all know how well they survive the slog across the table. Maybe if I stack up on IG tanks the Dreads might have a better chance of surviving the AT onslaught, who knows...

All I'm saying is that while I love the fantasy of furious Space Vikings smashing in faces, that is not something that happens with great effect in the game of Warhammer 40000 8th Edition.

Axe/Shield Dreads slog across the table pretty well. Turn one they Run/Smoke. Turn two if your opponent isn't castling in his deployment zone you have a decent chance at getting them stuck in.

Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th.

You need to set it up whenever possible to lock at least one model in CC with you. You should be looking for opportunities to do so with every assault. You have 6" of move during the fight phase, use it. I will often charge the unit i want to hit and a transport and then not throw any attacks at the transport. If you can get models around it enough that there is no room for it to withdraw you are golden. It cannot move through your models.

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.

Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.

Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.

I know how the TWC work, and while the wolves can bite I still feel they are not overly effective against anything but light/medium infantry, even with the TH mixed in. In 7th they were our heavy hitters, but sure enough their role is completely different now. The only things that are very good at hitting heavily in CC are the Dreads, but we all know how well they survive the slog across the table. Maybe if I stack up on IG tanks the Dreads might have a better chance of surviving the AT onslaught, who knows...

All I'm saying is that while I love the fantasy of furious Space Vikings smashing in faces, that is not something that happens with great effect in the game of Warhammer 40000 8th Edition.

I understand, I used to play the TWC as anti infantry even in 7th since with 10 of them I also fielded 10-15 wulfen. In the previous edition I usually kitted my TWC with just a few SS and no other upgrades as I wanted to field lots of bodies and let the heavy CC to the wulfen and the HQ. Multiple TWC were deadly even without fists and hammers due the Rending special rule, and thanks to their speed they were also efficient tarpitters. I never liked the 5-6 man super killy squad with all AP2 weapons and 3+ invulns, joined by other super deadly HQs, eventually by some allies. I think it was something that should be corrected and I'm glad that the deathstar of superfriends on thunderwolves doesn't exist anymore.

Wulfen can hit eavily in CC even in this edition, their rule to fight another round if they die means lots of S10 hits. And they can outflank by stratagem or be carried by the stormwolf or land raider, while dreads are really slow and a smart opponent will avoid them. I consider dreads a bit overrated to be honest, even bjorn.

But we don't have our codex yet, and maybe in a few months SW will become the close combat monsters they deserve to be

I definitely understand what your saying Weazel, but I don't know if I agree 100%.

I ended up redoing my sw force recently (buddy challenged me to make a 2000 pt list with 100$ so I bought a lot of infantry from ebay) and this is what I came up with.

Murderfang is a beast. He is a chr and a dreadnought so he can't get targeted unless he is closest which means it won't happen unless your either screwed either way or you want it to.

Wulfen, I equip mine with thunder hammers and storm shields. Their job is not as much to actually do damage (though they obviously can) but to buff blood claws and survive, which they do decently well.

Mass blood claws and sky claws are incredibly effective with the wulfen buffing them. Add a wolf priest and suddenly your cheap guys do 4 attacks on the charge rerolling hits.


I agree with the thunderwolves. I set mine up with 2 storm shields for protection and the rest chainswords because they need to be cheap at this point to make them worth taking and even then they are not all that. I would rather take more wulfen.

Thats my main assault force, I throw long fangs or Grey Hunters in for fire Support normally. My win / loss at this point is 4/6 against marines and tyranids mostly. Not to shabby for an index army.

Dual storm bolter rhinos do what needs to be done. In general, I see MORE twin assault canon razorbacks fielding small grey Hunter squads with wulfen outflanking as the main aloha strike, but if you need to move ten man squads around, rhino > drop pod this edition.

Bjorn, Murderfang and venerable dreads can all murder things in CC really well. TWC can too, but I find they are best tooled to kill infantry (because the extra teeth and claw attacks aren’t that great against other things), where Wulfen are better suited for targeting elite enemies. The thunderwolves get costly fast and have almost no REAL benefit over wulfen, considering they can’t outflank and their storm shields cost too much. On the flip side, woth just chainsworfs and bolt pistols they aren’t that expensive and can annihilate blobs pretty consistently on the charge.

Another topic completely: What’s everyone’s preferred weapons for an ironpriest biker? normal hammer and bolter the way most people run then, or go all the way with tempest hammer and hellfrost pistol?

Erik the Red wrote:
Dual storm bolter rhinos do what needs to be done. In general, I see MORE twin assault canon razorbacks fielding small grey Hunter squads with wulfen outflanking as the main aloha strike, but if you need to move ten man squads around, rhino > drop pod this edition.

Bjorn, Murderfang and venerable dreads can all murder things in CC really well. TWC can too, but I find they are best tooled to kill infantry (because the extra teeth and claw attacks aren’t that great against other things), where Wulfen are better suited for targeting elite enemies. The thunderwolves get costly fast and have almost no REAL benefit over wulfen, considering they can’t outflank and their storm shields cost too much. On the flip side, woth just chainsworfs and bolt pistols they aren’t that expensive and can annihilate blobs pretty consistently on the charge.

Another topic completely: What’s everyone’s preferred weapons for an ironpriest biker? normal hammer and bolter the way most people run then, or go all the way with tempest hammer and hellfrost pistol?

Normal hammer. Temest bonuses don't mean anything 90% of the time and really when do you want your iron priest in cc? He is better off doing his repair job, which should be why he was taken. Otherwise there are better options for pure melee Biker hq's.

 Weazel wrote:

 thefallenjackal wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?

You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.

Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th. I wanted so much to believe that a mainly CC army was viable but no, it just doesn't work. At least not with Wolves that is. Not enough damage and the fall back mechanics are just detrimental to our performance.

Wulfen were great, they have the speed and the hitting power to truly make an impact in CC. Also their bubbles are pretty nifty if you want to run other assaulty elements. However they drop pretty fast to shooting once their initial target is destroyed / falls back.

Terminator are just plain bad. They are very slow and they lack the oomph. And while 2W and 2+/3++ is decent they just drop to focused fire once their target has fallen back from melee.

TWC are fast and pretty durable, but they seriously lack in the damage department. 2 attacks per dude is just way too few. I'm not saying I want 5 S10 attacks back (well I kinda do ) but they need something more to make them a worthwhile pick.

This is kinda contradictory since I won the game and it was against none other than CWE. However my mate was very rusty and I managed to catch him off-guard with my Wulfen, Arjac and 2 packs of Terminators successfully pulling off 3 charges of 4. After the initial hit it was an uphill battle for me. Had he not lost his Dark Reapers first turn I would surely have lost in a big way.

This is why I acquired some IG tanks and infantry and I'm going to push my lists towards way more dakka and much fewer (if any) dedicated assault elements.

Assault isn't dead in 8th, the Wolves aren't a dedicated close combat army in 8th. If they were they would have psychic powers or abilities to boost them forwards like just about every other dedicated close combat army does and some who aren't do anyway.
Even in the fluff the Wolves are a generalist, jack of all trades type army who can take some tough melee units.

I agree, they look an assault oriented army because standard SM are a pure shooting force. SW have both shooty and choppy options.

Yeah, pretty much but most people tend to claim that SM are true generalists.

Space wolf fluff = close combat oriented
Space wolf gameplay = whatever you want

Heroes tend to be combat oriented. Bjorn and Wulfen are both insanely good cc units in 8th.

However, you can certainly run soace wolves as a mid-range gunline / counter assault army.

They don’t do that well as full on long range army, as they will get shot out badly by guard or tau if they try to play that game.

Assault still works well in 8th. My typical list usual has 1 unit of Wulfen, 2 blizz Dreads, 1unit of 4-5 TWC and a screening Fenrisan Wolf Unit. I have the Wulfen go on hunt while the rest of the army moves up the board. What makes the list work is that I've created target priority issues for the opponent. Even if one unit dosen't make it to CC, the rest definitely will.