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Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
nothing stops dreads from being in cover, but you can't get a 5+++ and a 6+++ you only get one.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
Ah, fair point about not being able to hide behind characters. This is true. Though... who uses Lone Wolves if I am being quite frank? They are so over-costed for little to no benefit. It's far better to hide Bjorn behind a venerable dread with sword and board. A 3++ with 8 wounds blocking everything coming at him until its dead is pretty handy. And now with the new rules, even if the ven dread is behind a wall and can't be seen, Bjorn cannot be targetted. It has to be the closest model to get to the character. LOS or not.
I like using biker lord with the krakenbone sword and the master crafted boltgun. He is fater and tougher then the jumppack version. I run him with a large squad of Wolfguard bikers some of which have storm shields. They are a very effective horde clearing team. And if they get charge and need his help he can heroically intervene.
My favorite character though is Harald death wolf. He is pricey but cheaper then Bjorn. He is 2++ against shooting attacks, fast, tough with lots of wounds and attacks. And the best part is he can Outflank naturally. His outflank is better then the strategem we have. I like to out flank him with my wulfen and deep strike wolf priest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/10 12:34:27
Azuza001 wrote: I use a wolf Lord on thunderwolf with the krakensword, i prefer the extra attacks for the slightly slower but still damn fast hq.
I want to try harald, he looks awesome.
Harald is certainly decent, but a standard wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword is 70ish points cheaper in an army in which everything is expensive points wise. Wolf lord on thunderwolf mount with that sword is actually my favorite SWHQ. Followed by Njal and Arjac.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/10 19:57:24
I have had a lot of luck with wolf Lord with relic on thunderwolf and wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with thunder hammer. Both get storm shields, wolf Lord gets tenacious survivor.
I just had 2 games vs blood angels, played the same mission twice but vs 2 different opponents, both were contact lost. I will post up a report about it later when I have time but blood claws are so awsome.... I mean good Lord these guys rock. So cheap. So many attacks. Lucas the trickster makes them lol all the way to win Ville.
But wolfen, I want to love them but for 238 pts they are so damn expensive. They did fine in the games but they didn't do anything special someone else could not have done. My wolf Lord and Bjorn killed 15 death company by themselves between shooting and charging in.
2018/05/10 23:58:45
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Both games were contact lost, the mission that you get 1 objective t1 then every other turn you get mission cards for holding objectives, max 6 cards at a time.
Both games here is my list.
Spoiler:
Wolf Lord w/ krakensword, storm shield, on thunderwolf. Warlord w/ tenacious survivor.
Wolf guard battle leader w/ thunder hammer and storm shield.
Bjorn w/ assault cannon
Lukas the trickster
Murderfang
5 wulfen, 4 w/ storm shields and thunderhammers, pack leader w/ frost claws
5 bloodclaws
5 bloodclaws
5 bloodclaws
10 skyclaws
Land raider crusader w/ multimelta, Hunter killer missile, storm bolter
Death company dreadnaught
15 man death company w/ jump packs and a few special cc weapons mixed in
4 servitors, 2 w/ heavy bolters
5 man cc scout squad
5 man sniper scout squad
5 man tactical squad
5 man dev squad, 2 Las cannons, a hb, and a missile launcher
5 man dev squad, 2 Las cannons, a hb, and a missile launcher
A land raider redemptor w/ multi melts
A predator w/ 4 Las cannons
Deployment wise I put the 15 bloodclaws and Lucas in the stormwolf, wolfen in the land raider, and everything up front except the stormwolf which was as far back in the center as we could be. We deployed on the 48" sides of the table. Opponent had his devs back in a corner w/ captain, death company and asorath in deep strike, everything else close up too.
First turn I drew advance, easy enough. Everything takes off forward. Wolfen jump out to run up to an objective, the skyclaws ran up to another one with scouts on it. My land raider drove full speed ahead and ended up 12" away from his predator, he made the mistake of trying to get it in range t1 without moving to hit my stormwolf but with me getting first turn it was in range of scary stuff. Land raider unloaded on the predator and ended up destroying it. Then the stormfang unloaded its big weapons on the death company dreadnaught and the heavy bolters into the first dev squad. It blew the death company dread up and killed 3 of the devs leaving the 2 Las cannons alive. Skyclaws killed a squad of scouts and then consolidated towards the sniper ones.
His turn he fired everything he had from the dev squads including popping the hb mortal wound stratagem at my land raider but he didn't roll as well as I did, doing only 6 wounds to it. He fired the heavy bolter servitors at my stormwolf doing 2 wounds (better than nothing) and moved the land raider up towards the skyclaws. He fired the scouts and land raider at the skyclaws but due to being in cover (they were in some ruins) they only lost 4 guys to all the shooting. He did roll bad for the redemptor fire cannons, only getting 3 auto hits, I had expected the skyclaws to die a glorious yet painful death. He scored nothing (drew secure 2 which was in my deployment zone) but now held 2 objectives.
My turn I drew secure 4 (on it) and take no prisoners (easy enough). Blood claws and Lucas jump out of the ship and move into charge range of the devs. Stormwolf flys up to get a shot on the land raiders rear. Everything else moves up and towards the land raider because it's the main focus of what's left. I left Bjorn on 4 so he could at least still shoot and participate.
I moved the land raider up to get better Los and grab objective 3 cutting his forces in half, took some pot shots at the land raider and missed, then went into the combat phase. I got too excited to get into combat, forgetting to shoot the stormwolf at all. But Lucas and the boys charged and killed most of the devs and wounded his captain, the skyclaws charged with the wolf Lord and wolf guard into the snipers and killed them , then consolidated into the land raider which had gotten too close pulling it in.
His second turn he gets advance, defend 4 (not happening lol) and drops his death company down on 2 with asorath. He backed out of combat with the land raider, unloading the tactical first, and everything shot at the skyclaws because they were blocking being able to shoot what he wanted (Character rules can be annoying). Unfortunately when he did he ended up killing all but 2 and I pulled my dead claws away from the death company , so they lost their charge target.
Rest of the game went downhill for him from there. My 3rd turn I hovered and shot the stormwolf into the land raider dropping it to 4 wounds, killing the captain and remaining dev srg, moving the land raider to go pick up the bloodclaws because there wasn't anything for them to do now on that side of the field, charging murderfang and both hq's into the death company which between shooting it and charging I wiped them out, and charging the wolfen into the tactical marines and Chaplin, saving my skyclaws. He made one valiant effort to try and pull a victory off with the raider, techmarine, and as, drawing objectives that if he could have killed the skyclaws, murderfang, and the stormwolf he would have gotten 4+d3 victory points putting him up by 1, but he couldn't do it. He killed the last 2 skyclaws and charged murderfang dropping him to 2 wounds. Murderfang punched back and killed him, but as has some ability to fight again when he died and killed murderfang at the same time. Close, but the land raider even with the autohit cannons couldn't do anything to the stormwolf. We called it at that.
Game 2
Spoiler:
This one was against a different opponent. I won't go into such details on this one, just hitting on the key points.
10 death company
15 death company w/ jump packs
10 assault terminators, 5 w/ storm shield thunder hammer 5 w/ claws
Land raider redeemed
Predator w/ 4 Las cannons
He got first turn and pushed forwards. His Las pred shot at my stormwolf and did nothing, got lucky there, but scouts did 5 wounds to Bjorn (damn 6's for mortal wounds) and he grabbed 4 objectives.
I push forward, meeting his land raider with mine and did 3 wounds to it. Then I killed the 2 sniper scouts and took that objective. The stormwolf once again flew full speed up and killed the las cannon pred. Murderfang was next to the land raider and grabbed a 2nd one.
He then blitzed me with his death companies and terminators. Death company one jumped out of the land raider and ended up killing murderfang, the 2nd hit and killed Bjorn while taking the objective from me and killing some skyclaws. He also did 6 wounds from his land raider to mine.
My turn 2 I held 0 objectives so drew nothing (not good). But I dropped a squad of claws out of the stormwolf and flew to the next one. I fired everything from the land raider at his getting it down to 3 wounds. I also moved my wolfen onto the board using the stratagem and tried to charge his dreadnaught (which I failed horribly). My wolf Lord and wolf guard battle leader turned around and charged into the death company dropping them to a more manageable size of 6, which the skyclaws then dropped to 3 and getting that objective back. I charged my land raider into his in desperation and ended up killing it with the frag launchers! It exploded and did 6 mortal wounds to me, 6 to his death company, 6 to the leutinant, and 2 to the Chaplin. Talk about painful.
He moved As up and charged my wolf Lord killing him, charged the death company and Chaplin into my land raider which ended up killing both in overwatch (even hitting on 6's that's 28 bolter shots and 12 assault cannon shots), and I also finished the remaining death company near my skyclaws thanks to the wolf guard battle leader.
My turn 3 I held 3 objectives but was behind 1 to 12. I get objectives I can do and get to work on them. I kill As and the last 5 man scout squad, grab 3 more objectives, and earn 5 points total. All he has left is 5 stormshield terminators and a lightning claw term holding 4. He draws defend 4 so moves to a defensive stance. I draw a bunch of easy to do stuff (line breaker, secure 2, secure 3, hold the line, that stuff) and I go to town on his terms. I was trying to kill just enough with 5 bloodclaws and Lucas but between the shooting and cc I drop the terms down to 2 guys (srg is already dead so they are leadership 8, losing 4 guys). He rolls leadership and gets a 6, so they escape due to moral and that's game. After everything was counted I ended up 10 to his 12. If I would have shown restraint at the end and let him have defend 4 he would have had 2 more vp and a new mission but I would have been drawing 5 more and would have easily taken the lead by just keeping away from his terms.
So overall good games. I expected more from blood angels, but they really didn't impress me on the table. Death company die way to quick, the 6+++ save is kind of a joke for their cost. Yeah they hit hard but they cost so much.
Stormwolf again is mvp. That thing is a beast at taking out vehicles, 2 Las cannons and 2 shots with the hellfrost, plus 12 heavy bolter rounds, it does work. Blood claws are still my favorite thing to drop out of them with Lucas, he makes them soo effective on that charge and getting them to what they want to be hitting is so easy it's scary.
Bjorn, murderfang, skyclaws, and even the land raider all did well. I am pretty happy with them.
Wolfen on the other hand not so much. They didn't die which is nice but they also never got into a position either game to help the bloodclaws be awesome. I think they will go on the shelf and I will put 3 squads of 5 grey hunters in the crusader for fire support. I need some reliable cheap objective holders and they can do the job well.
Otherwise a wolf priest or rune priest would have been nice, the wolf priest with the skyclaws could have been quite effective.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
Ah, fair point about not being able to hide behind characters. This is true. Though... who uses Lone Wolves if I am being quite frank? They are so over-costed for little to no benefit. It's far better to hide Bjorn behind a venerable dread with sword and board. A 3++ with 8 wounds blocking everything coming at him until its dead is pretty handy. And now with the new rules, even if the ven dread is behind a wall and can't be seen, Bjorn cannot be targetted. It has to be the closest model to get to the character. LOS or not.
I was.
I use Cyber Wolves for objective grabbing and target negating.
Yes Lone Wolves are over-costed but one in Terminator Armour with a Storm Bolter and Storm Shield meant Bjorn couldn't be targeted by most things and the Lone Wolf could get the same benefit from the Cyber Wolves meaning he often outlasts the Blizzard Dreads.
He fills an Elite slot rather than a HQ slot so I usually take him to use the Battalion detachment but I do often swap him with a WGBL so Bjorn's ranged weapons re-roll 1s to wound - it's a tough call.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
I use my wulfen differently then you do. I put them on the hunt and deepstrike a wolf priest with them. I have only failed a charge once since we got the strategem and they survived with their storm sheilds and feel no pains. When they failed my opponent charged them with three ironclad dreads. I turned him to scrap and he regretted not shooting/ kiting them instead. They eat anything I charge with them. The other day they ate 3 ravagers and 3 Archons and only lost 1 wound. I would never waste my time foot slogging them. I play a lot of 1000-1500pt games and I always find time to squeeze them in. Bigger games I take a full 10 man squad.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/11 10:04:50
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I use my wulfen differently then you do. I put them on the hunt and deepstrike a wolf priest with them. I have only failed a charge once since we got the strategem and they survived with their storm sheilds and feel no pains. When they failed my opponent charged them with three ironclad dreads. I turned him to scrap and he regretted not shooting/ kiting them instead. They eat anything I charge with them. The other day they ate 3 ravagers and 3 Archons and only lost 1 wound. I would never waste my time foot slogging them. I play a lot of 1000-1500pt games and I always find time to squeeze them in. Bigger games I take a full 10 man squad.
If you're talking to me the only difference is that I use Grimnar instead of a Wolf Priest. Thunder Hammers really like re-rolling failed to hit rolls.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
I am not giving up hope on them, I just feel that in my list they are overkill for the overkill. If I drop the LRC then I would find room for them, but otherwise they just are not needed.
Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
Azuza- I've been wanting to use my LRC but for 300+ pts I can get more dakka and more wounds/ bodies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To add to my previous posts this is the 1000pt list I've been testing for an upcoming 1k tourney. It's been kicking ass and taking names.
Wolf Guard [20 PL, 168pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm bolter
Wolf Guard on Bikes [28 PL, 288pts] . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Frost sword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
Wolf Scouts [6 PL, 100pts] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout with Heavy Weapon: Plasma gun
. Wolf Scout with Melee Weapon: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Long Fangs [7 PL, 112pts] . Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
I understand on the lrc, I am actually using it as a distraction for the stormwolf. If I had another stormwolf i would take that. I find both of them on the table causes either one to be overkilled or both to survive easy. I am thinking 3 squads of 5 grey hunters in the lrc, each with a plasma gun as objective grabbers and fire support.
Here is an alternative, if I drop the lrc I can put the wolfen back in, stick 2 grey Hunter squads into a rhino, and that leaves 100 pts in a 2k list to play with. What would / could you do with 100 pts? I could flesh the grey hunters out and stick each one in a rhino of their own but I like to keep my infantry squads small and simple to use. Besides we have the best basic troop options of any loyalist marine force, I really want to make them shine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/11 17:37:54
You could use a plasma scout suicide squad as shown in my list above. They outflank naturally so no need to use a CP. the squad above has 5 plasma shots at 12". You could find 8 pts somewhere and give the wolf guard leader of the squad a combi plas instead giving the squad 6 plasma shots. I obliterated a corvus black star in 1 rd of shooting with overcharged plasma from 5 combi plas wolfguard and a wolflord. People would have to deal with them epescially when they pop a light armored vehicle or kill some big bug or demon. Should give the rest of you force some time to move. Use them to support the outflanking wulfen as I do. I put my wulfen on the hunt 99% of the time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/11 18:57:20
That extra 6 pts is easy, swap Bjorn from plasma cannon to assault cannon. I like that idea, I will have to try it out. That 6 plasma shots on an enemy flank is pretty useful. Especially if your using it as target clearing.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
Never be embarrassed for wanting to bury that great looking axe in a xenos/traitor/daemon skull!
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
Never be embarrassed for wanting to bury that great looking axe in a xenos/traitor/daemon skull!
Truer words were never spoken Wolf Brother, but I have Lukas for flavour so Grimnar can sit out for the sake of efficiency.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 02:03:49
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Many armies have received a stratagem that gives extra hits on a 6. If Space Wolves get a similar stratagem then Lukas will become solid gold for Blood Claws.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
I hope when the Space Wolf codex comes out, we can get "Traditions of the Great Company" thing for all 12 Great Company. i.e. the Chapter Tactics for each Great Company. In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
Maybe that is my dreams.
But at least, I hope we could have something fir the whole faction that is somehow represnt our old "counter attack" trait. Something buffs our combat ability that fits the barbraous hot headed personality fluff of the Space Wolf.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/13 03:53:19
Neophyte2012 wrote: I hope when the Space Wolf codex comes out, we can get "Traditions of the Great Company" thing for all 12 Great Company. i.e. the Chapter Tactics for each Great Company. In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
Maybe that is my dreams.
But at least, I hope we could have something fir the whole faction that is somehow represnt our old "counter attack" trait. Something buffs our combat ability that fits the barbraous hot headed personality fluff of the Space Wolf.
I was just thinking this myself. Would sure make the wolves very self sufficient, in that you could mix detachments of wolves from different companies instead of imperial souping all the time.
Neophyte2012 wrote: In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
.... No it isn't.
GW has given us fairly complent run downs of Both Logan's Great Company (in the champions of fenris supplement) and Rangar Blackmane's Great company (in, among oth er things, the 7th edition Space Wolf Codex)
Logan's Great company, described invariably as the largest and it numbers 201 space wolves. which is waaaay less then a codex chapter. the space wolves are proably about 2,300 marines in size total
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
The Wolves are larger than a codex Chapter but far less than a Legion. I would not mind betting that they are not even the largest chapter. Black Templars are supposed to number several thousand IIRC.
Back in 3rd edition there was an article (I think it was Index Astartes) that stated that unlike Codex Chapters, each GC was large enough and had enough resources to operate independently of the rest of the Chapter indefinitely if needed.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
