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Martel732 wrote:
Reivers are awesome models. Keep them. They will probably get buff in CA. Primaris are really underperforming, and GW knows this.

Reivers don't even need much either. Maybe a point of AP like on their pistols for their Blades and you're set.

Carbines just need to be fixed entirely. Maybe Assault 3?

I don't know. They need to be less allergic to 2 damage. I don't even care about the AP because who uses 2+ armor vs melee models?

My thought for Primaris was to give them the same rule abberants have where they reduce damage they take by one to a minimum of one. This would have to come with a price increase however.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
My thought for Primaris was to give them the same rule abberants have where they reduce damage they take by one to a minimum of one. This would have to come with a price increase however.

Why? They're really bad now.

Martel732 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
My thought for Primaris was to give them the same rule abberants have where they reduce damage they take by one to a minimum of one. This would have to come with a price increase however.

Why? They're really bad now.

Well I mean reducing damage they take by one is pretty huge. They're pretty darn durable and if you make them take one less damage per hit D2 is going to take twice as much firepower to kill them and even D3 damage will only have a 33% chance.

Imagine a deathwatch intercessor with that rule for 20 points. That's a scary good unit.

I would go with more Vets... terminators are terribad.

More vets and a quick visit to ebay for 5 stormbolters

Lol!

Hey y'all I have a game this evening - is there a way to create an Ignore Cover debuff aura?

Warlord trait Nowhere to Hide.

It's nothing special, but it exists.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
My thought for Primaris was to give them the same rule abberants have where they reduce damage they take by one to a minimum of one. This would have to come with a price increase however.

Why? They're really bad now.

Well I mean reducing damage they take by one is pretty huge. They're pretty darn durable and if you make them take one less damage per hit D2 is going to take twice as much firepower to kill them and even D3 damage will only have a 33% chance.

Imagine a deathwatch intercessor with that rule for 20 points. That's a scary good unit.

And only Xenos get those, right? Maybe 22 pts or 23 tops.

meleti wrote:
Warlord trait Nowhere to Hide.

It's nothing special, but it exists.

Not worth it.

 Primark G wrote:

meleti wrote:
Warlord trait Nowhere to Hide.

It's nothing special, but it exists.

Not worth it.

Yeah totally agree.

Hey guys, still buying models.. last few choices.

What do people think about bikers - seem pretty nice for me.

I was thinking about having 2 min squads with meltas, for objective grabbing and harassment. Or I could have a 5 bike squad with decent axes... thoughts?

Then hellblasters, I was going to do a kill team with 4 of them plus an inceptor to prevent them being shut down from cc. But now I'm thinking may e just getting 10 is a better way to go... thoughts?

mrtomski wrote:
Hey guys, still buying models.. last few choices.

What do people think about bikers - seem pretty nice for me.

I was thinking about having 2 min squads with meltas, for objective grabbing and harassment. Or I could have a 5 bike squad with decent axes... thoughts?

Then hellblasters, I was going to do a kill team with 4 of them plus an inceptor to prevent them being shut down from cc. But now I'm thinking may e just getting 10 is a better way to go... thoughts?

I would only use Bikers if they're broke off from a regular Killteam and have a Vanguard with them.

I tried a Combat Squad of 5 Vets with Stalker Bolters and 4 Bikers with Axes + a Chainsword/SS Vanguard. Not terribly competitive but it can make a dent at least.

Got a question for people - I've been using the 300pt Fortis kill teams with aggressors/inceptors for my Deepstrike Hammer (versus my long range vet/intercessors/hellblaster 'anvils' that start on the board), but I'm finding they often don't make their points back. Sometimes the inceptors blow something up but the aggressors do nothing or vice versa. I've been looking at various other options like dropping venerable dreadnoughts or those sweet looking 3biker/2 vanguard vet melee teams to replace them but am uncertain what would work best.

What are you using for your close range/deep strike elements?

Personally I like to avoid big kill teams. I find they are too rewarding to shoot and vulnerable to morale. It's also easier to shut down one big unit then it is two medium sized units. Personally I like to keep my kill teams no larger than seven with the standard composition being 5 intercs and 2 hellblasters though I'll occasionally replace a hellblaster for an aggressor here and there, but still always one hellblaster minimum.

I'd personally avoid all melee in the army outside of ally forces or specific smash captains. Nothing we have is going to be efficient in melee so I'd just avoid it and rely on very reliable and efficient shooting options. The closest to melee I want to come is overwatching with a frag cannon.

Just bought the start collecting set to finish off my force and am not sure how to equip my second veteran squad so far the army is...

1750

Chapter master, lord of hidden knowledge.

Watch Captain with power sword.

Intercessors x 5
Hellblasters X 2

Intercessors x 5
Hellblasters X 2

Veterans X 6
Sergeant SB and power maul
3 veterans with sb and chain sword

Inceptors X 3

Corvus

Vanguard detachment

Libby

Primaris apothecary

Venerable dread, lascannon and ML X 2

Still have space for another kill team points wise and not sure what to do with them, might change my first unit to be 4 X frag cannon squad and then have a 6 man kill team with storm bolter vets a heavy thunder hammer and a storm shield or two jumping out of the corvus?

Also think I will drop the inceptors as I do have the models but they don't get SIA, possibly drop another kill team into the list in their place as they do seem a waste.

Rogerio134134 wrote:

Also think I will drop the inceptors as I do have the models but they don't get SIA, possibly drop another kill team into the list in their place as they do seem a waste.

Rather then drop them, you might want to attach them to kill teams so you can fall back and shoot.

Your list looks a bit light on AV, so some frag cannons might work nicely.

 Nevelon wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:

Also think I will drop the inceptors as I do have the models but they don't get SIA, possibly drop another kill team into the list in their place as they do seem a waste.

Rather then drop them, you might want to attach them to kill teams so you can fall back and shoot.

Your list looks a bit light on AV, so some frag cannons might work nicely.

Nice, yeah I'm thinking of using the other veteran unit with a heavy thunder hammer or two to drop in with the other vets and they can tackle tough targets together.

All deathwatch infantry/bikes including primaris should be buffed by a wound - veterens should be more durable, and primaris veterens should be more so, all infantry/bikes should then have a plus 1 attack which brings back the old true grit sort of rule.

Lastly I'd like them to have a danger close rule where they can deep strike up to 7 inches away and all infantry can disembark from a transport after it has moved but can only do so if those infantry units are at least 7 inches away from the enemy (like a deep strike of sorts). A 1CP option to negate interceptor/auspex scan as well to show they are adept at this sort of stuff.

No point increases either. When you look at other armies, it is not a lot, when you look at other marine armies it obviously is but that shouldn't be the factor which holds them back from gaining these.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
All deathwatch infantry/bikes including primaris should be buffed by a wound - veterens should be more durable, and primaris veterens should be more so, all infantry/bikes should then have a plus 1 attack which brings back the old true grit sort of rule.

Lastly I'd like them to have a danger close rule where they can deep strike up to 7 inches away and all infantry can disembark from a transport after it has moved but can only do so if those infantry units are at least 7 inches away from the enemy (like a deep strike of sorts). A 1CP option to negate interceptor/auspex scan as well to show they are adept at this sort of stuff.

No point increases either. When you look at other armies, it is not a lot, when you look at other marine armies it obviously is but that shouldn't be the factor which holds them back from gaining these.

So you take 5 intercessors with aggressors and maybe an inceptor you are looking at a 30+ wound t5 unit absolutely crazy

Hello everyone,

I made this post over at Bolter and chainsword where I go over the numbers and do a breakdown on special ammo/mixed killteams.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347952-what-ammo-to-pick-and-boys-versus-toys-survivability/#entry5100011

Figured since I am gonna try and post over here again I should share it and get peoples thoughts!

If this is against the rules let me know and I will either make a separate thread or copy the images over.

As to my primaris unit,

I have been running 5 intercessors, 4 aggressors, and 1 inceptor and it is an all star, if I had the deep strike slot I would run two of these beauties. I killed 15 plague bearers on overwatch and then another 8 in combat. It was glorious.

However I plan on attending NOVA and one of the biggest concerns I have is how to deal with Castellans. I know the Tempest will be D3, I can work in a heavy bolter for another D3 per turn. But that takes a long time to get to 28 lol.

 Leth wrote:
Hello everyone,

I made this post over at Bolter and chainsword where I go over the numbers and do a breakdown on special ammo/mixed killteams.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347952-what-ammo-to-pick-and-boys-versus-toys-survivability/#entry5100011

Figured since I am gonna try and post over here again I should share it and get peoples thoughts!

If this is against the rules let me know and I will either make a separate thread or copy the images over.

As to my primaris unit,

I have been running 5 intercessors, 4 aggressors, and 1 inceptor and it is an all star, if I had the deep strike slot I would run two of these beauties. I killed 15 plague bearers on overwatch and then another 8 in combat. It was glorious.

However I plan on attending NOVA and one of the biggest concerns I have is how to deal with Castellans. I know the Tempest will be D3, I can work in a heavy bolter for another D3 per turn. But that takes a long time to get to 28 lol.

Send in capt slam. That's what he's for.

 Leth wrote:
Hello everyone,

I made this post over at Bolter and chainsword where I go over the numbers and do a breakdown on special ammo/mixed killteams.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347952-what-ammo-to-pick-and-boys-versus-toys-survivability/#entry5100011

Figured since I am gonna try and post over here again I should share it and get peoples thoughts!

If this is against the rules let me know and I will either make a separate thread or copy the images over.

As to my primaris unit,

I have been running 5 intercessors, 4 aggressors, and 1 inceptor and it is an all star, if I had the deep strike slot I would run two of these beauties. I killed 15 plague bearers on overwatch and then another 8 in combat. It was glorious.

However I plan on attending NOVA and one of the biggest concerns I have is how to deal with Castellans. I know the Tempest will be D3, I can work in a heavy bolter for another D3 per turn. But that takes a long time to get to 28 lol.

VERY nice layout. Really does show how great Krak is just because of that sweet range advantage.

 Leth wrote:
Hello everyone,

I made this post over at Bolter and chainsword where I go over the numbers and do a breakdown on special ammo/mixed killteams.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347952-what-ammo-to-pick-and-boys-versus-toys-survivability/#entry5100011

Figured since I am gonna try and post over here again I should share it and get peoples thoughts!

If this is against the rules let me know and I will either make a separate thread or copy the images over.

As to my primaris unit,

I have been running 5 intercessors, 4 aggressors, and 1 inceptor and it is an all star, if I had the deep strike slot I would run two of these beauties. I killed 15 plague bearers on overwatch and then another 8 in combat. It was glorious.

However I plan on attending NOVA and one of the biggest concerns I have is how to deal with Castellans. I know the Tempest will be D3, I can work in a heavy bolter for another D3 per turn. But that takes a long time to get to 28 lol.

Leth.. great post btw. I was looking at a break down of the units i run in DW. i run 3 Vet squads kitted out the same. 9 dudes in each unit. 1 termie, 1 Vanguard vet and 7 vets with stormbolters and 3 storm shields. what is your take on the unit as an example ?

I won a local 14-man tournament with my DW yesterday, thought I'd post my list. I'm not inferring from this that DW are amazeballs or anything, but I was very happy with their performance alongside an IK core.

I came up against Wraith/Dev-heavy Necrons, alpha legion/abbadon cultist spam with bloodbombs, and a World Eater list. Ended the day with 5740pts out of 6000pts killed!

DW Battalion:
2 jumpy smashy caps
2 assault intercessor squads, each with an aggressor
1 5-man killteam with SBs & SSs
1 DS'ing Hellblaster team
1 Xiphon
1 Corvus with auspex and dakka

Knight (Taranis) SHD:
1 Gallant
2 Helverins

- Ran one cap with Aegis Dominatus to give my flyers a 5++ if I lost initiative. Meh.

- The uber-dakka was well suited to my opponents' lists. I love our troop choices.

- My Xiphon did real work; the thing didn't die all day, and killed both Kharn & Abbadon on fly-bys. 50" move allows you to negate all but the longest-range AT, whilst closing quickly to decapitate characters. The Gallant was the bullet magnet.

- Corvus dictated attention and dropped its squad and cap where needed with the beacon for re-positioning and capping.

- my two Aggressors were amazing, advancing on turn 1 and rarely moving after that.

- The little Hellblaster team was my clutch, brought down when I needed something hurt, and I tried to save 2cps to doctrine them too.

- the two Helverins were a bit pedestrian but slowly contributed damage I suppose. They had an off-day.

Nice one dude I think with allies Deathwatch can be incredible, my local club hates Alta though lol

 zedsdead wrote:

Leth.. great post btw. I was looking at a break down of the units i run in DW. i run 3 Vet squads kitted out the same. 9 dudes in each unit. 1 termie, 1 Vanguard vet and 7 vets with stormbolters and 3 storm shields. what is your take on the unit as an example ?

Thank you very much!! I used it as excel practice, as well as ways to try and show the impact of things with stats, rather than just with raw numbers. Its easy to say that -1 is significant, but its much more impactful to see how it manifests in outcomes.

I like it. However the most important question for any kill team should be: Is this one of the three units I am teleporting in.

After that it is

Which target is this unit designed to KILL(not wound, KILL)

Much of the responses I would give depend on the rest of your army. The kill team should slot into a primary role that is needed, rather than each unit being focused on doing multiple things.

For example:

My two troop choices are not going to be teleporting in(all three are used) and they need to fill a battalion out for a minimal number of points. Have anti-horde pretty covered with my primaris kill team, but could use more fire power to try and pick off smaller units. I dont have a good way to make sure that a knight dies in one turn(will have maybe 2-3 wounds left on average) So I opted to go with veterans instead of intercessors, as well as equipped them with the following:

5x veterans, 4x Storm Bolter, 1x SS, 1x Hvy Bolter. I take the Hvy bolter - 111 points.
Both of them will share one Rhino at the start of the game(for Durability).

The heavy bolter is there so that I can use the hellfire strategem to knock off 1-3 wounds per turn. Combined with the tempest round(from a watch master, so you know its gonna hit) I can plink off 2-6 wounds per turn. That is enough to make it a significant dent without dedicating a lot of wasted firepower. With CP regen it is feasible.

For my Primaris unit the logic goes as follows:

I know that they will be teleporting in most games, but if possible(or against certain types of opponents such as one who is light on shooting) they will start on the board, and then just advance.
My Primaris unit is focused on putting out a gak ton of bullets/anti-horde shots.
Because this unit is going to be getting relatively close it is important that they have the ability to fall back and still be able to fire.

So the unit is:

4x Aggresor - Bolt storm
1x Inceptor - Bolter
5x Intercessor - Assault Bolter

I gave them the assault boltgun on the intercessors(so they can still fire while advancing). Further, since I know they are going to be deep striking in, and I want to stay further away(with the aggressors the farthest forward) I want to be able to place them, without having to get within 15 inches(WAY easier assault distance which makes it easier to wrap the unit). Having to be within 15 for the intercessors to fire is a significant loss.

However if I need those 5 points to make the list work? It is one of the first things to go.

Finally, I am sure the leviathan has been talked to death, but I think we need to talk about how crazy good hunter killer missles are for the DW, especially since we are light on anti-tank weapons.

Question from the group what's the least amount of models I need to buy to create a venurable dreadnaught with lascannon and missile launcher? I need to buy the deathwatch dreadnaught and a regular dread to get the middle launcher?

ballzonya wrote:
Question from the group what's the least amount of models I need to buy to create a venurable dreadnaught with lascannon and missile launcher? I need to buy the deathwatch dreadnaught and a regular dread to get the middle launcher?

I would buy a regular dread and then put bits on it/ask for other bits that will make it look venerable.

Or I would buy a Venerable, and then bits order/convert a missile launcher.