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Martel732 wrote: I don't use the loyal 32 exactly. I bolt on a couple of russes, couple of primaris psykers, and a repair idiot for the russes. This helps both BA and DW immensely. Sometimes you just need bodies to throw into the gears to slow X down. You dont' want those bodies to be BA, much less DW. The Russ is so much better than any marine vehicle, it's a bit nauseating.
DW are extremely effective, but amplify an already glaring weakness with marines. I've moved away from using the vets and use primaris exclusively in order to try to make up some durability.
Of of curiosity, has anyone here beat Drukhari with DW, or at least, not instantly lost in a hail of dissy cannons?
Corvus and landraiders both need price cuts badly. I guess DW can bring lascannon ven dreads.
Playing the wrong marines man - should be playing space wolves. -2 to hit flyers with stratagem - 9 d6 damage shots for less than a Repulsor. LOL. Also with a stratagem to ignore negative to hit penalties LOL.
I hate the SW and everything about them. I will never own a SW model and they are at the top of my "squat" list. If I could incinerate every SW model, I'd be temporarily happy with the game.
That’s an impossibility, you enjoy complaining more than you enjoy the game.
Martel732 wrote: I don't use the loyal 32 exactly. I bolt on a couple of russes, couple of primaris psykers, and a repair idiot for the russes. This helps both BA and DW immensely. Sometimes you just need bodies to throw into the gears to slow X down. You dont' want those bodies to be BA, much less DW. The Russ is so much better than any marine vehicle, it's a bit nauseating.
DW are extremely effective, but amplify an already glaring weakness with marines. I've moved away from using the vets and use primaris exclusively in order to try to make up some durability.
Of of curiosity, has anyone here beat Drukhari with DW, or at least, not instantly lost in a hail of dissy cannons?
Corvus and landraiders both need price cuts badly. I guess DW can bring lascannon ven dreads.
Playing the wrong marines man - should be playing space wolves. -2 to hit flyers with stratagem - 9 d6 damage shots for less than a Repulsor. LOL. Also with a stratagem to ignore negative to hit penalties LOL.
I hate the SW and everything about them. I will never own a SW model and they are at the top of my "squat" list. If I could incinerate every SW model, I'd be temporarily happy with the game.
That’s an impossibility, you enjoy complaining more than you enjoy the game.
No, I really hate SW that much.
About a year back you hated Tau and Eldar that much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/25 19:15:55
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I'm surprised he does not play Khorne with all of this hatred.
He plays Blood Angels. Same Thing.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Martel732 wrote: I don't use the loyal 32 exactly. I bolt on a couple of russes, couple of primaris psykers, and a repair idiot for the russes. This helps both BA and DW immensely. Sometimes you just need bodies to throw into the gears to slow X down. You dont' want those bodies to be BA, much less DW. The Russ is so much better than any marine vehicle, it's a bit nauseating.
DW are extremely effective, but amplify an already glaring weakness with marines. I've moved away from using the vets and use primaris exclusively in order to try to make up some durability.
Of of curiosity, has anyone here beat Drukhari with DW, or at least, not instantly lost in a hail of dissy cannons?
Corvus and landraiders both need price cuts badly. I guess DW can bring lascannon ven dreads.
Playing the wrong marines man - should be playing space wolves. -2 to hit flyers with stratagem - 9 d6 damage shots for less than a Repulsor. LOL. Also with a stratagem to ignore negative to hit penalties LOL.
I hate the SW and everything about them. I will never own a SW model and they are at the top of my "squat" list. If I could incinerate every SW model, I'd be temporarily happy with the game.
That’s an impossibility, you enjoy complaining more than you enjoy the game.
No, I really hate SW that much.
About a year back you hated Tau and Eldar that much.
Martel732 wrote: I don't use the loyal 32 exactly. I bolt on a couple of russes, couple of primaris psykers, and a repair idiot for the russes. This helps both BA and DW immensely. Sometimes you just need bodies to throw into the gears to slow X down. You dont' want those bodies to be BA, much less DW. The Russ is so much better than any marine vehicle, it's a bit nauseating.
DW are extremely effective, but amplify an already glaring weakness with marines. I've moved away from using the vets and use primaris exclusively in order to try to make up some durability.
Of of curiosity, has anyone here beat Drukhari with DW, or at least, not instantly lost in a hail of dissy cannons?
Corvus and landraiders both need price cuts badly. I guess DW can bring lascannon ven dreads.
Playing the wrong marines man - should be playing space wolves. -2 to hit flyers with stratagem - 9 d6 damage shots for less than a Repulsor. LOL. Also with a stratagem to ignore negative to hit penalties LOL.
I hate the SW and everything about them. I will never own a SW model and they are at the top of my "squat" list. If I could incinerate every SW model, I'd be temporarily happy with the game.
That’s an impossibility, you enjoy complaining more than you enjoy the game.
No, I really hate SW that much.
About a year back you hated Tau and Eldar that much.
Weazel wrote: Is there a consensus what is the "best" or most reasonable loadout for Intercessor squads? Say, something that works well in a soup list.
I am currently running my Fortis Killteams in these configurations:
2 Units
5 Auto Bolt Rifle Intercessors
1 Aggressor
1 Bolter Inceptor
I tried mixing in Hellblasters but found they didn't do enough compared to just DSing a whole squad. I am considering Plasma Inceptors instead and putting them on my Advancing Teams but have not tried this yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: I have a feeling that DW are going to be a strong army post-FAQ. It's quite likely that the Castallan is going to be nerfed, and so with it IKs, who are a bit of a problem for us atm.
Orks are going to rise, and there's no better target for our SIA than greenskins (okay, Daemon Princes, but you know what I mean). We're one of the only armies that can turn hordes into red paste.
What do you think, fellow watchmasters? How far are DW from being a top-table army?
In August they got 3 top 3 placements in the big tournaments as is. I think they were running either IK allies or Guard Allies in each but still. I think they will get more effective yet since the biggest weakness we have is AT, and without IK spamming everywhere that isn't highlighted as much.
You can DS Hellblasters? That sounds spicy.
I was hoping I wouldn't have to invest in Aggressors, but I guess I will have to consider it. The role my Deathwatch Battalion would have is one of being mid-field/vanguard with shooty AM elements keeping in the back. Or alternatively, they would be mid-field objective campers while my Space Wolves take the role of vanguard. So I guess I'm looking for something that can do some work in the middle of the board in either of these scenarios.
I highly recommend Aggressors. I bought two boxes and am considering getting a third. To give you an idea of how ridiculously powerful they can be:
My opponent the other day made a mistake. He tried to advance on a position I was holding with a Fortis Killteam of 5 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles and 5 Aggressors. He got within 18 but failed the couple charges he could make so it went to my turn. I popped +1 to wound and split fired 1 aggressor into each of his guardsmen squads and killed 5 units outright. The Intercessors did enough to bring the remaining unit down to like 3 models I think it was. Now, this isn't something that will commonly happen... and an opponent will only make a mistake like that once... but it does show how powerful they can be.
Sitting one unit with 4-5 Aggressors mid-field is a great way to scare your opponent from getting anything not armored close to the middle of the board.
In 2nd ed, SW had a functional codex while the rest of the Imperium languished. Then the fluff got progressively worse, and they continued to get obnoxious codices with no real justification. They've always been marines +3 because the writers felt like it.
This, combined with the actual SW players I've known over the years, makes them my most hated faction by a wide margin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 12:27:54
5 Aggressors who didn't move that round with doctrine, mission and WM bubble, can do 11 damage to a knight on their own. If you can get them to the centre of the board, they're a threat to everyone in 18" except 2+ save units. They totally rock.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hesselhof, you've got some really great units there brother! But I really don't think 2 ven dreads and 5 Hellblasters is enough AT to take on all comers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But hey, give it a run and see how you do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/26 19:45:49
Weazel wrote: Is there a consensus what is the "best" or most reasonable loadout for Intercessor squads? Say, something that works well in a soup list.
I am currently running my Fortis Killteams in these configurations:
2 Units
5 Auto Bolt Rifle Intercessors
1 Aggressor
1 Bolter Inceptor
I tried mixing in Hellblasters but found they didn't do enough compared to just DSing a whole squad. I am considering Plasma Inceptors instead and putting them on my Advancing Teams but have not tried this yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: I have a feeling that DW are going to be a strong army post-FAQ. It's quite likely that the Castallan is going to be nerfed, and so with it IKs, who are a bit of a problem for us atm.
Orks are going to rise, and there's no better target for our SIA than greenskins (okay, Daemon Princes, but you know what I mean). We're one of the only armies that can turn hordes into red paste.
What do you think, fellow watchmasters? How far are DW from being a top-table army?
In August they got 3 top 3 placements in the big tournaments as is. I think they were running either IK allies or Guard Allies in each but still. I think they will get more effective yet since the biggest weakness we have is AT, and without IK spamming everywhere that isn't highlighted as much.
You can DS Hellblasters? That sounds spicy.
I was hoping I wouldn't have to invest in Aggressors, but I guess I will have to consider it. The role my Deathwatch Battalion would have is one of being mid-field/vanguard with shooty AM elements keeping in the back. Or alternatively, they would be mid-field objective campers while my Space Wolves take the role of vanguard. So I guess I'm looking for something that can do some work in the middle of the board in either of these scenarios.
I highly recommend Aggressors. I bought two boxes and am considering getting a third. To give you an idea of how ridiculously powerful they can be:
My opponent the other day made a mistake. He tried to advance on a position I was holding with a Fortis Killteam of 5 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles and 5 Aggressors. He got within 18 but failed the couple charges he could make so it went to my turn. I popped +1 to wound and split fired 1 aggressor into each of his guardsmen squads and killed 5 units outright. The Intercessors did enough to bring the remaining unit down to like 3 models I think it was. Now, this isn't something that will commonly happen... and an opponent will only make a mistake like that once... but it does show how powerful they can be.
Sitting one unit with 4-5 Aggressors mid-field is a great way to scare your opponent from getting anything not armored close to the middle of the board.
Yep and the thing is, they don't have to do it every game either. Aggressors are a unit that force your opponent to deal with them or else they can just outright win the game the next turn by doing crazy gak like that. This heavily changes the way your opponent has to play to avoid that happening. DW has some of the best aggressors in the game. Raven Guard ones are up there too though
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hesselhof, you've got some really great units there brother! But I really don't think 2 ven dreads and 5 Hellblasters is enough AT to take on all comers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But hey, give it a run and see how you do.
Hey thank you, my problem is, that these are the only Lascannons i got XD, the two on the dreads and on the Razorback and i dont got the bits for the missile launcher for the dreads.
The Corvus i dont want to play
Yeah i will see how it works ^^
Do you got some tipps how i could improve the AT?
Following models i own beside the above list
Land Raider Redeemer
Corvus
6 Agressors
Vanguard Squad with 2x Pistol and shield, 2x 2 lightning claws, 1x TH & SS, 2x2 pistols
Captain with Jumppack TH & SS 9 Bikes
another psyker
Redemptor with both weapon options
Veteran squad with 3 combi melta
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/27 06:21:09
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
I'd recommend trying proxying your redemptor as a Leviathan with Storm Cannon Array & 3 hunter-killer missiles, and deepstriking him. He's probably one of the top tier units in the game, when in DW, and can deal with pretty much any target (3++ is his big weakness). If you love him (and you will) you could look at buying the weapons from FW and converting him, saving you some money. (Because, unless he gets a big buff in FAQ, the Redemptor is not a competitive unit.)
I'd run both your smashcaps, with jump packs if at all possible, as the mobility is great, pairs well with beacon angelis, and they often tip a target over its last few wounds, in my experience.
I get what you're doing with the stalker patterns, but I'd cut 2 to make the squad msu - you still get access to the mw strats, and save yourself 44pts or so. They really underperform.
I'd stick MLs on your dreads for 2 extra shots and 40 extra points. But that might be wrong, depending on how you want to play them.
I'd put another frag in that squad with the saved points. Id probably buy some extra frags from shapeways if I was running your troop-heavy list, because they do good work in my experience.
Or I'd double down on Vens and run 3. If so, I'd give a smashcap the stormshield for Dominus Aegis to give all 3 of them 5++/6+++.
Just my suggestions though, others might have better advice for you! Good luck.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/27 11:56:54
I added 2 man to the stalker pattern team bause i had the 40 points left^^
I gues 3 Frag cannons are enough^^ 4 would be such an overkill and the had no space in the Razorback XD with 7 Vets
The next month i need to test some compositions
I also want to test a 5-6 man squad of DP Agressors
The 2 Smashcaptains sounds awesome, but i want to give the psyker a chance^^
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/27 10:41:16
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
BTW a libby is really important when running a Leviathan, as might of heroes bumps him up to T9, which has a huge impact on his longevity, so yeah, I definitely try and run a libby myself, if only for that.
Do i get this right that i can use the leviathan dread absolutly legal for deahtwatch, with all gems and buff bubbles in our codex, like the imperial armour adeptus astartes FAQ says?
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
Hesselhof wrote: Do i get this right that i can use the leviathan dread absolutly legal for deahtwatch, with all gems and buff bubbles in our codex, like the imperial armour adeptus astartes FAQ says?
BTW a libby is really important when running a Leviathan, as might of heroes bumps him up to T9, which has a huge impact on his longevity, so yeah, I definitely try and run a libby myself, if only for that.
They're not going to try and kill the Leviathan though. They just want to charge something into it so it can't shoot.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Only one Deathwatch Errata from the Big FAQ 2, which is kind of expected since Chapter Approved will probably make much more impact.
In any case, really helpful improvement on the anti T'au stratagem:
Change the rules text of this Stratagem to read:
‘Use this Stratagem after an enemy T’au Empire unit
that is equipped with one or more markerlights has
resolved all attacks in the Shooting phase. Select one
Deathwatch unit from your army and immediately
remove all markerlight counters from that unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/28 14:11:49
grouchoben wrote: I'd recommend trying proxying your redemptor as a Leviathan with Storm Cannon Array & 3 hunter-killer missiles, and deepstriking him. He's probably one of the top tier units in the game, when in DW, and can deal with pretty much any target (3++ is his big weakness). If you love him (and you will) you could look at buying the weapons from FW and converting him, saving you some money. (Because, unless he gets a big buff in FAQ, the Redemptor is not a competitive unit.)
I'd run both your smashcaps, with jump packs if at all possible, as the mobility is great, pairs well with beacon angelis, and they often tip a target over its last few wounds, in my experience.
I get what you're doing with the stalker patterns, but I'd cut 2 to make the squad msu - you still get access to the mw strats, and save yourself 44pts or so. They really underperform.
I'd stick MLs on your dreads for 2 extra shots and 40 extra points. But that might be wrong, depending on how you want to play them.
I'd put another frag in that squad with the saved points. Id probably buy some extra frags from shapeways if I was running your troop-heavy list, because they do good work in my experience.
Or I'd double down on Vens and run 3. If so, I'd give a smashcap the stormshield for Dominus Aegis to give all 3 of them 5++/6+++.
Just my suggestions though, others might have better advice for you! Good luck.
All this ^
I am actually using a Leviathan in my next games since my buddy has one that is magnetized with all the weapons so I can borrow it and try them out. I know that overall the Storm Cannons are the best... what is your experience with the Melta though if you are looking specifically and only for AT duties? AT is my weakness right now too since I have a lot of Leman Russes, Baneblades, and IK's in my local meta. I have the Hellblasters, but otherwise, I am pretty lacking overall. Looking at Leviathan, a Knight of my own (waiting to see how badly they are nerfed though), or allies which I in general don't like doing.
Melta is amazing too, absolutely - its key advantage imo is it's powerful enough to run as a single weapon, opening up a fist for your leviathan. He becomes even more of a priority target though, and gains a weakness to hordes (he can't manage range as well, and can't shred 15 models in an emergency if he has to, with his SCA). His price bumps up about 50pts too. You could go double lance, I've never tried it myself – 4d3 AT shots at 18" could work in a knight meta actually. Another small problem is you don't get to pick a damage dice at DS range. Let us know how it worked out for you!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/29 04:33:39
Today is the day^^ i will order my leviathan with 2x storm cannon + imperial armour,. I guess stormcannon is the best, grav flux is to random with d3 shoots
20 shoots with doctrine will hurt an knight, i guess
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/30 09:42:47
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
Good man! Yeah, it hurts a knight, but much more important, it hurts everything. Great against MEQ, TEQ, armour, heavies, invuln saves, even GEQ if you really need some dead. Knight with 3++ is actually one of its worst match ups, but it still does good work even there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/30 12:05:24
So let's try and get some talking about the FAQ. Few key things for me personally were:
1. The clarification for the anti-Tau Stratagem was pretty cool.
2. For those of us with camping Stalker Vets and footslogging Fortis teams, the cover Stratagem is expensive BUT super valuable.
3. We will definitely be dealing with less Slamguinus flying around, making any Infantry we were bringing much better at helping screen our dudes.
4. Still no reason to use Dragonfire rounds once more.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So let's try and get some talking about the FAQ. Few key things for me personally were:
1. The clarification for the anti-Tau Stratagem was pretty cool.
2. For those of us with camping Stalker Vets and footslogging Fortis teams, the cover Stratagem is expensive BUT super valuable.
3. We will definitely be dealing with less Slamguinus flying around, making any Infantry we were bringing much better at helping screen our dudes.
4. Still no reason to use Dragonfire rounds once more.
Pretty much sums it up. All infantry are better at bubble wrap and screening for characters now. Small thing, but teleportarium use just to protect the Dreads from alpha, but still use them turn 1 (an uncommon strategy) is gone.
All in all, mostly the same. Our own version of smash caps aren't as efficient now, but they couldn't really hold a candle to the insanity of the slamfether, supreme Lord of slamming anyway.
I still will use my 2 hammer captains one with hammer + shield and one with hammer and stormbolter with bane bolts, it´s still a close combat monster^^
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
With the reduction of the CP farm (still not horrible though), will people look at other warlord traits other than Lore of Hidden Knowledge? The above TH/SS Captain with Castellan of the Black Vault seems pretty tasty making that TH Damage 4. Man do I wish our characters could take Heavy Thunder Hammers, even a Blackshirt would be cool. Shame they are restricted to 2 attack models only.
Still hard to lose Hidden Knowledge though as I like the additional reroll (plus strategem) in case I roll low for storm shield saves on a kill team. Nice to be able to reroll twice in a turn.
Admech & Deathwatch
