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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Space Wolves with their Outflank Strategem are cool.

Any unit in particular? I read a lot about Wulffen?

Wulfen are immense. I had my face stoved in by them in a league game last month. My poor DW didn't know what hit them! A Stormwolf full of Wulfen is a serious proposition.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Space Wolves with their Outflank Strategem are cool.

Any unit in particular? I read a lot about Wulffen?

Wulfen are solid, but even just Blood Claws are good.

You might also like Aggressors as well. Those Power Fists hitting on a 3+ that first round is pretty cool, especially if you didn't have a reroll available.

so i played 2 games with DW yesterday practicing for a GT.

played vs BobbyG marines and AM/Castellians

Won both games

List was:

Chaplain JP
Watch Mater: JP/TH

4 units of Vets: 3 SSs 7 SB Vets, Terminator w/ Sword and SB, Vanguard Vet w/2 chainsword, biker.

Loyal 42 AM : for CP and bubble wrap.

Castellian: anti Tank

Soup List yea but mostly DW.

Just out of curiosity what does the chaplain bring to the table?

demontalons wrote:
Just out of curiosity what does the chaplain bring to the table?

Being a cheap, mobile beatstick that also fills an HQ slot.

demontalons wrote:
Just out of curiosity what does the chaplain bring to the table?

I would have to agree why take a chaplain over a captain (its like 2 pts more)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Few thing curious on,

What is the TH for the Watch master ( TH usually means thunder hammer, but he can't take)

Why take chaplain when you army is mostly shooting (captain with JP not include weapons is 3 pts more)

Isn't it loyal 32 (3x 10 guard squads and 2 x IG hqs) (would give you more points to spend on your DW for a few combi plasmas or frags etc, better if use teleport strat).

New FAQ posted today for DW. Nothing massive - just a rewording of all movement abilities in Intercessor, Reiver, and Vet squads so they only apply in Movement phase.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

demontalons wrote:
Just out of curiosity what does the chaplain bring to the table?

I would have to agree why take a chaplain over a captain (its like 2 pts more)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Few thing curious on,

What is the TH for the Watch master ( TH usually means thunder hammer, but he can't take)

Why take chaplain when you army is mostly shooting (captain with JP not include weapons is 3 pts more)

Isn't it loyal 32 (3x 10 guard squads and 2 x IG hqs) (would give you more points to spend on your DW for a few combi plasmas or frags etc, better if use teleport strat).

The Chaplain is just cheap.. and if he gets near combat he has benefits. He gets the relic that allows me to push a unit of Vets forward when i DS the other 3 units in. Brings 4 units of vets into your face.

Sorry Watch Captain not Master

Loyal 32 plus another squad...loyal 42
Necessary for shielding. I found 30 guard was a little to weak for what i was doing. 2 commanders 4 orders for 4 units. run run run is my main order to push out my screen.

 zedsdead wrote:

The Chaplain is just cheap.. and if he gets near combat he has benefits. He gets the relic that allows me to push a unit of Vets forward when i DS the other 3 units in. Brings 4 units of vets into your face.

A Chaplain with jump pack, bolt pistol and Crozius (base setup) is 91pts. A Watch Captain with Bolt pistol, Master-crafted boltgun and a Power sword (base setup but upgraded chainsword to power sword) is 102pts. 11pts for someone who has +1BS, +1W, +1 A, gives an aura that affects shooting and combat (over re-roll all hits in combat, the crozius stats and the useless LD buff unless primarius). There is no special relic (all can be taken by any character for DW).
You could drop 4 storm bolters for bolt guns (like on your SS guys, to make them cheaper) and would get someone arguably better. (Not how I would run my captain but is cheap). I mean you are not running entire squads of thunder hammers/power fists or even power weapons or anything that justifies a re-roll more than 1 to hit in melee, your squads are better at shooting with some combat ability.

Just food for thought.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:

The Chaplain is just cheap.. and if he gets near combat he has benefits. He gets the relic that allows me to push a unit of Vets forward when i DS the other 3 units in. Brings 4 units of vets into your face.

A Chaplain with jump pack, bolt pistol and Crozius (base setup) is 91pts. A Watch Captain with Bolt pistol, Master-crafted boltgun and a Power sword (base setup but upgraded chainsword to power sword) is 102pts. 11pts for someone who has +1BS, +1W, +1 A, gives an aura that affects shooting and combat (over re-roll all hits in combat, the crozius stats and the useless LD buff unless primarius). There is no special relic (all can be taken by any character for DW).
You could drop 4 storm bolters for bolt guns (like on your SS guys, to make them cheaper) and would get someone arguably better. (Not how I would run my captain but is cheap). I mean you are not running entire squads of thunder hammers/power fists or even power weapons or anything that justifies a re-roll more than 1 to hit in melee, your squads are better at shooting with some combat ability.

Just food for thought.

Like i said hes there for cheap and i need the Jump pack.. i dont take him for melee abilities.

I have tested a 2nd JP captain bare bones just for the Relic that allows a squad to redeploy and it is a marked improvement to get 4 squads in range of reroll 1s on shooting attacks. i made an adjustment with the AM to get in that second JP Captain over the derpy Chappy

Anyone ever drop in some hellblasters and use malleus tactics on enemy vehicles? On overcharge that should plough through most vehicles

Yes and it is boss. But against Eldar lightning reflexes does ruin your fun. I've now switched to 2 270pt Fortis teams, 5 intercessors, 5 Hellblasters. They freak people out.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
What do you guys think is the most point efficient/hard(er) hitting/best imperium melee/assault unit apart from Knights and Catachan IS?

Its a very specific question but Id like to know your answers...as for me I think its going to be anything BloodAngel...the +1 to wound is just superior to everything...

Im asking because I want to ally something with a melee punch to my deathwatch!

Space wolves is my vote, hitting on 2's rerolling 1's with a wolf lord with a thunder hammer is just nuts. Give any spacewolf a thunderhanmer and watch things get whack-a-moled. Between that and blood claws getting a stupid number of attacks when they charge (3 per guy hitting on 2's? Yes please) thats money.

Azuza001 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
What do you guys think is the most point efficient/hard(er) hitting/best imperium melee/assault unit apart from Knights and Catachan IS?

Its a very specific question but Id like to know your answers...as for me I think its going to be anything BloodAngel...the +1 to wound is just superior to everything...

Im asking because I want to ally something with a melee punch to my deathwatch!

Space wolves is my vote, hitting on 2's rerolling 1's with a wolf lord with a thunder hammer is just nuts. Give any spacewolf a thunderhanmer and watch things get whack-a-moled. Between that and blood claws getting a stupid number of attacks when they charge (3 per guy hitting on 2's? Yes please) thats money.

Has anyone actually done the math on SpaceWolves vs BloodAngels? Especially on units like SmashCap, WolfLord, Wulfen and DeathCompany?

With SpaceWolves I see the problem of bringing them up the board? Would be „easier“ with Blood Angels I guess...

The math says they both win in specific situations. However I give the edge to Space Wolves as they won't cost you all your CP to function.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The math says they both win in specific situations. However I give the edge to Space Wolves as they won't cost you all your CP to function.

That's a great point - wwe're a desperately cp-hungry faction as it is, and a BA smashcap vamping all our points away is not a great idea.

 grouchoben wrote:
Yes and it is boss. But against Eldar lightning reflexes does ruin your fun. I've now switched to 2 270pt Fortis teams, 5 intercessors, 5 Hellblasters. They freak people out.

Do you deepstrike them?? My list is kind of upn in the air at the moment for 2 Fortis kill teams with intercessors and hellblasters and a squad of 5 hellblasters too

 grouchoben wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The math says they both win in specific situations. However I give the edge to Space Wolves as they won't cost you all your CP to function.

That's a great point - wwe're a desperately cp-hungry faction as it is, and a BA smashcap vamping all our points away is not a great idea.

Thats actually a GREAT GREAT point...even if not going for a smashcap, just the deathcompany will cost me CP id rather use on my deathwatch

Using CP for a relatively high percentage chance at a charge that importantly can't be overwatched.

You end up spending significant points on the insertion method for the wolf lord, deepstrike alone won't cut it in most cases. And insertion methods for marines are absolute pants in terms of vehicles, and jump packs and TWC don't make you mobile enough so you can be out maneuvered or just shot off the board.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Using CP for a relatively high percentage chance at a charge that importantly can't be overwatched.

You end up spending significant points on the insertion method for the wolf lord deepstrike alone won't cut it in most cases. And insertion methods for marines are absolute pants in terms of vehicles, and jump packs and TWC don't make you mobile enough so you can't be out maneuvered or just shot off the board.

Well in that case you might as well do the Supreme Command detachment of Jetbike Captains and a single Flag dude (get that tasty 5++).

Played a joing match yesterday, 1250pts ea. I played Deathwatch, buddy had Knights. Vs 2x1250 Orks (Red Sunz and Deathskullz).

We absolutely annihilated them even though I thought it was all over when they were in our face. TH/SS captain killed 2 warbosses no problem.

So, a quick question going into a 1500pt tournament (not super competitive). When not knowing what you're facing, would you pay the 5pts for an Infernum Halo Launcher or Auspex Array? I feel that the former is the more useful but more situational while the second one is just OK, but more universal.

Armies I know for sure that will be there.....Guard, Drukhari, Knights or Custodes, SOB, Orks.

Current list is roughly, WM and KT in Corvus, KT in teleportarium, TH/SS capt, shooty KT, Ven Dread, Razorback with TL las.

The Corvus is a problem unit. Its efficiency nosedives as soon as it moves, so if I take one now, I generally don't move it, and run it anti-tank with infernum halo. I know it sounds weird, and it is. But I'll plonk it down within 9" of somewhere a killteam wouldn't mind being, and T1 they'll jump out, it'll hover, and the WM will turn it into a damage beast.

I basically can't bear to spend 250pts on a 4+ gunship, it's so swingy. If you are running it as intended, then yeah I think auspex is mandatory almost, as it will be out of bubbles most of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rogerio134134 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Yes and it is boss. But against Eldar lightning reflexes does ruin your fun. I've now switched to 2 270pt Fortis teams, 5 intercessors, 5 Hellblasters. They freak people out.

Do you deepstrike them?? My list is kind of upn in the air at the moment for 2 Fortis kill teams with intercessors and hellblasters and a squad of 5 hellblasters too

I don't; they start on the board. T2 is a big hit to their damage output & objective game. But I play ITC, and I can often hide their asses pretty well, or at the least give them cover. On the traditional Imperial Ruins building they start on the ground out of LOS then pop up to the upper floors to shoot, no heavy penalty, 2+, it suits them well. If it's a bowling ball world, I'd consider DS'ing them both tbh.

I normally play one on each wing, using the beacon as I see fit to jump one into RF or out of CC. 270pts is expensive, I know, but I like em. They are 20 wounds on 2+ that can dish some damage out, and they love the Beacon. I used to run 10 Hellblasters DS'ing, but I don't know, I feel that can be countered, your 10 hellblasters die quicker, and they contribute nothing to that all-important first turn.

 grouchoben wrote:
The Corvus is a problem unit. Its efficiency nosedives as soon as it moves, so if I take one now, I generally don't move it, and run it anti-tank with infernum halo. I know it sounds weird, and it is. But I'll plonk it down within 9" of somewhere a killteam wouldn't mind being, and T1 they'll jump out, it'll hover, and the WM will turn it into a damage beast.

I basically can't bear to spend 250pts on a 4+ gunship, it's so swingy. If you are running it as intended, then yeah I think auspex is mandatory almost, as it will be out of bubbles most of the time

The Halo doesn't help you if you hover though so outside of Turn 1 vs flyers, not much point?
I do agree on your general assessment of the Corvus though. I certainly could replace it, but with what?

Getting in to DW. The versatility is incredible, and just plain fun.

With Mixed units (I could not find an answer to this, unless I missed it), if I have a Vanguard Vet in a hth squad of vets. Can I move the vanguard Vet 12", break coherency since the rules say: "If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle, it must re-establish its unit coherency the next time it moves." Let the rest of the squad move 6" since that is still the same move that causes the break. Then Charge with the vanguard vet to allow the rest of the squad to get the charge distance thus bringing them back into coherency, thus using the charge as the "next time it moves" to re-establish?

 zaahul wrote:
Getting in to DW. The versatility is incredible, and just plain fun.

With Mixed units (I could not find an answer to this, unless I missed it), if I have a Vanguard Vet in a hth squad of vets. Can I move the vanguard Vet 12", break coherency since the rules say: "If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle, it must re-establish its unit coherency the next time it moves." Let the rest of the squad move 6" since that is still the same move that causes the break. Then Charge with the vanguard vet to allow the rest of the squad to get the charge distance thus bringing them back into coherency, thus using the charge as the "next time it moves" to re-establish?

No. I am certain that I read something somewhere that you have to end your unit in coherency. It is an illegal move to end your units movement outside of coherency.

AC Razorbacks work great for me, but I run MSU Vets. They spiral out of control costwise in my experience, so I often run 5 or 6-mans, SB & CS, one with SS, one with Frag. But I guess you've gone in for a big 10-man with termi? In that case I'd be tempted to save yourself 250pts and spend a CP to teleport them in. It's a whole lot safer for them anyway, and they'll still be hitting the board T2, just like with the Corvus, unless you're dumping them out T1 and hovering. But then, do you really need a transport for that? It's a tricky situation, and for me then best way to square the circle has been with Razorbacks, which also let me split the payload and dash for 2 objectives/support 2 other units. They keep the Corvus' best gun, and are much more of a pain to delete (a LoS block is much easier to achieve, especially in ITC, and they're not such a juicy target ... Just my own experience.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 zaahul wrote:
Getting in to DW. The versatility is incredible, and just plain fun.

With Mixed units (I could not find an answer to this, unless I missed it), if I have a Vanguard Vet in a hth squad of vets. Can I move the vanguard Vet 12", break coherency since the rules say: "If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle, it must re-establish its unit coherency the next time it moves." Let the rest of the squad move 6" since that is still the same move that causes the break. Then Charge with the vanguard vet to allow the rest of the squad to get the charge distance thus bringing them back into coherency, thus using the charge as the "next time it moves" to re-establish?

No. I am certain that I read something somewhere that you have to end your unit in coherency. It is an illegal move to end your units movement outside of coherency.

That somewhere is probably basic rules, right at the starts section "Units":

A unit must be set up and fnish any sort of move as a group, with every model within 2" horizontally, and 6" vertically, of at least one other model from their unit: this is called unit coherency

So if you move you need to end up in coherency. If you can't do that...Well then you can't move would be most likely result though rules don't actually cover that one. You have to restore coherency but legally aren't able to do so. Pretty rare case though. For M6" you would need to be minimum of over 16" from each other(and roll 1 for advance) to accomplish that.

 zaahul wrote:
Getting in to DW. The versatility is incredible, and just plain fun.

With Mixed units (I could not find an answer to this, unless I missed it), if I have a Vanguard Vet in a hth squad of vets. Can I move the vanguard Vet 12", break coherency since the rules say: "If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle, it must re-establish its unit coherency the next time it moves." Let the rest of the squad move 6" since that is still the same move that causes the break. Then Charge with the vanguard vet to allow the rest of the squad to get the charge distance thus bringing them back into coherency, thus using the charge as the "next time it moves" to re-establish?

You can't deliberately move a unit to break its own coherency. There are edge cases as to what happens when coherency is broken via other means, but this isn't the locale to dig deeply into those as they involve primarily horde armies, which Deathwatch aint. You take the mixed units for the special rules they give to the squad, not for their movement shenanigans.

I don't mean to sound dismissive here, its just that this has been a particularly heated subject of late between a few folks who post in this faction subthread (myself included) and out of respect to everyone I want to try to silo that discussion off elsewhere.

Being able to move the Vanguard/Biker from one side to the other to get that much closer to a charge/objective is nice when it matters (keeping coherency of course)