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When you go for a mobile fire power unit: Do you use 5xaggressors and 5x intercessors or actually 1x aggressor and 9x intercessors?

Im asking because I really like the 5x aggressor Kill Team but I wont get to use their special ability as Id move them all the time...On the other Hand I want them to move since I do like their power fists and supported by a Watch Master they hit hard in melee too.

Is this another scenario of „Do whatever works the best for you“?

Why not use 8/2 instead so you can kill team them up into 4/1's and get the ability in both squads.


Or take 5 of each and stick 1 of each into each kill team so you can point the 2 teams at targets more effective for each.

Anyone run bikers as a standalone squad?? There are units I wouldn't mind trying such as bikes but I just don't want to buy them as primaris is obviously going to replace everything.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why not use 8/2 instead so you can kill team them up into 4/1's and get the ability in both squads.


Or take 5 of each and stick 1 of each into each kill team so you can point the 2 teams at targets more effective for each.

If you're squadding down, eat the additional 4 points to make make two of the Intercessors into Rievers.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why not use 8/2 instead so you can kill team them up into 4/1's and get the ability in both squads.


Or take 5 of each and stick 1 of each into each kill team so you can point the 2 teams at targets more effective for each.

I mean their „shoot 2 times“ ability...not move and advance without penalty


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why not use 8/2 instead so you can kill team them up into 4/1's and get the ability in both squads.


Or take 5 of each and stick 1 of each into each kill team so you can point the 2 teams at targets more effective for each.

If you're squadding down, eat the additional 4 points to make make two of the Intercessors into Rievers.

Why the rievers?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:


Why the rievers?

Terror troops rule and access to shock grenades. Rievers and ABR Intercessors are stat-line identical, but the former has access to those two toys to make the combined squad that much more nasty as a mobile disruptor unit. It's only a 2ppm difference, and well worth the investment IMO.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone run bikers as a standalone squad?? There are units I wouldn't mind trying such as bikes but I just don't want to buy them as primaris is obviously going to replace everything.

I have 4 bikers that I want to add to a kill team with 5 vets and a single vanvet. Then combat attach off the 4 bikes and vanvet so they can still fallback and shoot if they get assaulted. I will also give the vanvet a stormshield to tank some high AP rounds at the bikes. Haven't ran it in a game yet, but they are on the pantning table.

 bullyboy wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone run bikers as a standalone squad?? There are units I wouldn't mind trying such as bikes but I just don't want to buy them as primaris is obviously going to replace everything.

I have 4 bikers that I want to add to a kill team with 5 vets and a single vanvet. Then combat attach off the 4 bikes and vanvet so they can still fallback and shoot if they get assaulted. I will also give the vanvet a stormshield to tank some high AP rounds at the bikes. Haven't ran it in a game yet, but they are on the pantning table.

I have found 3x bikers and 2x Vanvets (with storm shields) to be the sweet spot when attached to a 5man vet squad and then combat squaded to: 1 unit of 5 vets and 1 unit of 3x Bikes & 2x Vanvets. I was against it when 8th first came out (4-1 biker and vanvet) but for objects they are great. Just through my experiences and opponents 3-2 biker-vanvet has worked a lot better.

The 3x bikers (most time chainswords, but if have a few points may give one a power weapon) & 2x Vanvets (stormshields/bolt pistols) still retains T5 and gives a bit more survive-ability against -Ap and is a bit cheaper. Just depends on who you fighting most or expect to fight most. I just have found that the extra 3++ is more valuable than an extra wound/shots for my fast objective grabbing unit.

Nice, also wondering about the effectiveness of 4 normal vets with a sergeant in the back field with stalker bolt guns to claim objectives? Seems relatively cheap

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Nice, also wondering about the effectiveness of 4 normal vets with a sergeant in the back field with stalker bolt guns to claim objectives? Seems relatively cheap

Personally my 5 man counterpart to the biker/vanvet is 5 stalkers/chainswords with a BS and Serg same load out if competitive (so is total 5) (I sometimes do a few Storm shields instead of CS and a missile launcher for 1 marine, it depends on points. Is usually fluffy/fun reason (or for a missile for a strat if I think their is a lot of flyers). My Sergs always have a Xenophase blade, but is totally fluffy reason.

My backfield unit right now is 5 vets, 1 stalker, 2 stalker/stormshield, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter. For an upcoming small tournament, thinking of adding 2 more stalkers (have 40pts spare) or putting UR-205 in my backfield

Here is two of my normal back field squads/fast objective grabbers in my standard 2k point army (EDIT, Combat squad each 10 obviously to the 5 stalkers and 3 biker/2 Vanvets):

10x Veteran Squad: (272/19)
• Watch Sergeant: Stalker pattern boltgun, Xenophase blade, Frag & Krack grenades
• Black Shield: Stalker pattern boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Missile launcher, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Stalker pattern boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Stalker pattern boltgun, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Power sword, Deathwatch teleport homer, Frag & Krack grenades

10x Veteran Squad: (257/19)
• Watch Sergeant: Stalker pattern boltgun, Xenophase blade, Frag & Krack grenades
• Black Shield: Stalker pattern boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Heavy bolter, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Stalker pattern boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Veteran: Stalker pattern boltgun, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol, Storm shield, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krack grenades
• Biker: Twin boltgun, Power maul, Deathwatch teleport homer, Frag & Krack grenades

Gives some good forward objective capping and some good back field shooting with some strats if need. I have used these for along time and have always performed well.

 bullyboy wrote:
My backfield unit right now is 5 vets, 1 stalker, 2 stalker/stormshield, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter. For an upcoming small tournament, thinking of adding 2 more stalkers (have 40pts spare) or putting UR-205 in my backfield

I really like that loadout myself, bullyboy!

 bullyboy wrote:
My backfield unit right now is 5 vets, 1 stalker, 2 stalker/stormshield, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter. For an upcoming small tournament, thinking of adding 2 more stalkers (have 40pts spare) or putting UR-205 in my backfield

Yeah that's cool mate might try it, I do have a spare missile launcher and 2 storm shields only issue is I only have 2 stalker bolters :-(

Do you use one big AT Kill Team or do you split your AT on 2-3 KT so its harder to focus them down?

Ive seen both and dont know whats „better“ (if there is something)

It depends on your fortis strategy. You got a big guy you're going to be dropping the strat on regularly? Then I'd recommend splitting your AT among squads. Personally my vet's AT is supplementary, not primary. A heavy bolter here, a fragcannon there, etc.

so playing in a 1500pt tourny in a few weeks.

List is currently

Watchmaster 130
Watch Captain, jp, TH/SS, bp 130

Kill Team, Xeno/SB, 2 SB/SS, Blackshield SB/PF, 2 Frag, Terminator SB/PM, Vanvet SS/PM 257
Kill Team, Xeno/SB, 2 SB/SS, SB/CS, 2 Frag, Terminator SB/PM, Vanvet BP/CS 237
Kill Team, 3 stalker, 2 stalker/SS, ML, HB 177

Ven Dread, TL las, ML 165
Ven Dread, TL las, ML 165
Corvus, Twin AC, blackstar rockets, HB, Infernum Halo 239

Thinking of dropping the Corvus though as it just doesn't get job done. What would be best to replace? Redemptor in teleportarium, AC Razorbacks, more Vets?

I'd shave 70pts off your vet loadouts and go SCA Lev personally. I know, it's utterly predictable. But a bucket of 2+ S7 shots would really help this list imo, and half the time that Corvus is going to be wasted points. Two less stalker leaves you with 30 left to shave, and you won't miss them too much. A big lynchpin will focus your opponent's attention and let your vets do some work.

 grouchoben wrote:
I'd shave 70pts off your vet loadouts and go SCA Lev personally. I know, it's utterly predictable. But a bucket of 2+ S7 shots would really help this list imo, and half the time that Corvus is going to be wasted points. Two less stalker leaves you with 30 left to shave, and you won't miss them too much. A big lynchpin will focus your opponent's attention and let your vets do some work.

Don't have Leviathan and not planning on getting one. Doesn't feel fluffy to me for Deathwatch. Pretty much restricted to adding more vets, vanvets, terms, bikes, razorbacks, primaris (although I'm hoping to keep the first list Primaris free for now)

Deredeo?

Martel732 wrote:
Deredeo?

That would be more fluffy. I'll actually sympathize with the OP on this one as Deathwatch REALLY wouldn't get access to Leviathans.

No FW allowed, plus not interested in adding FW to my DW. Codex options only.

Might as well just go LasBacks or AssaultBacks then.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Might as well just go LasBacks or AssaultBacks then.

That's what I was thinking, but hate to lose the Vanvets/terminator to be able to load into Razorbacks. It does give me a couple units that can get up close quickly, however.

 bullyboy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Might as well just go LasBacks or AssaultBacks then.

That's what I was thinking, but hate to lose the Vanvets/terminator to be able to load into Razorbacks. It does give me a couple units that can get up close quickly, however.

Honestly the idea Razorbacks transport anything is silly to me. They're basically cheap battle tanks and you should treat them as such.

 bullyboy wrote:
so playing in a 1500pt tourny in a few weeks.

List is currently

Watchmaster 130
Watch Captain, jp, TH/SS, bp 130

Kill Team, Xeno/SB, 2 SB/SS, Blackshield SB/PF, 2 Frag, Terminator SB/PM, Vanvet SS/PM 257
Kill Team, Xeno/SB, 2 SB/SS, SB/CS, 2 Frag, Terminator SB/PM, Vanvet BP/CS 237
Kill Team, 3 stalker, 2 stalker/SS, ML, HB 177

Ven Dread, TL las, ML 165
Ven Dread, TL las, ML 165
Corvus, Twin AC, blackstar rockets, HB, Infernum Halo 239

Thinking of dropping the Corvus though as it just doesn't get job done. What would be best to replace? Redemptor in teleportarium, AC Razorbacks, more Vets?

Ye I wouldn't run the Corvus unless you really want to for aesthetic reasons. Tourneys mostly are objective related so I would go more vets. Using the models you have posted as a base I would go something like:

1 Battalion

Deep Strike Support elements
Watch Captain: JP, Combi-melta, BP, TH = 135pts/6pwr

These both teleport strat
7x Kill Team: Serg (SB/Xeno), Blackshield (SB/CS), 1 Frag, 2 SB/SS, Termie (SB/PM), VanVet (BP/PM) = 200pts/14pwr
8x Kill Team: Serg (SB/Xeno), Blackshield (SB/CS), 2 Frags, 2 SB/SS, Termie (SB/PM), VanVet (BP/PM) = 241pts/16pwr

I gave the PM to the VV over the BS (points reasons could only pick 1) cause VV should be removed towards the end or just before the frags, depends on situation, over giving a VV a SS in this type of unit. Your SS guys and the Termie (depends on AP fired at them) will be taking all the first hits.


On the field from start
Watch Captain: Stalker boltgun, BP, Xeno = 86pts/5pwr

These are to be combat squaded (Stalkers one, Bikers/Vanvets other)
10x Kill Team: Serg (Stalker/CS), Blackshield (Stalker/CS), 1 stalker/SS, 1 Stalker/CS, 1 missile, 3 Bikers (CS), 2 VanVet (BP/SS) = 261pts/19pwr
10x Kill Team: Serg (Stalker/CS), Blackshield (Stalker/CS), 1 stalker/SS, 1 Stalker/CS, 1 heavy bolter, 3 Bikers (CS), 2 VanVet (BP/SS) = 247pts/19pwr

Ven Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Missile launcher = 165pts/8pwr
Ven Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Missile launcher = 165pts/8pwr

In these combated squads the VV (the combat squads with the bikers) will be taking the first hits and so need a SS. To maintain T5, the VV need to take the first hits and they give the unit 2x guys with a 3++, all situational but (sometimes even if take on a biker first will not matter etc etc).

Comes out to like 1500. I would run it different (some combi-plasma in my teleport element and the VV a plasma pistol in the same teleport element etc etc).

Just some thoughts on your posted list with some extras.

EDIT: Quick list 1 Battalion

HQ
Watch Captain: JP, Combi-melta, BP, TH = 135pts/6pwr
Watch Captain: Stalker boltgun, BP, Xeno = 86pts/5pwr

ELITE
Ven Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Missile launcher = 165pts/8pwr
Ven Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Missile launcher = 165pts/8pwr

TROOPS
7x Kill Team: Serg (SB/Xeno), Blackshield (SB/CS), 1 Frag, 2 SB/SS, Termie (SB/PM), VanVet (BP/PM) = 200pts/14pwr (Tele Strat)
8x Kill Team: Serg (SB/Xeno), Blackshield (SB/CS), 2 Frags, 2 SB/SS, Termie (SB/PM), VanVet (BP/PM) = 241pts/16pwr (Tele Strat)
10x Kill Team: Serg (Stalker/CS), Blackshield (Stalker/CS), 1 stalker/SS, 1 Stalker/CS, 1 missile, 3 Bikers (CS), 2 VanVet (BP/SS) = 261pts/19pwr (Combat Squad)
10x Kill Team: Serg (Stalker/CS), Blackshield (Stalker/CS), 1 stalker/SS, 1 Stalker/CS, 1 heavy bolter, 3 Bikers (CS), 2 VanVet (BP/SS) = 247pts/19pwr (Combat Squad)

That's too bad, the DW Deredeo does a lot of work, but isn't as soul crushing as a leviathan. Deredeo is actually a well-pointed FW model. Or really close. Everyone respects it, no one complains.

OK, minus the Corvus....

Watch Master 130
Watch Captain, jp, TH/SS, bp 130

Kill Team, Sgt SB/Xeno, Blackshield SB/PF, 2 SB/SS, 2 Frag, SB/CS, shotgun, term SB/PM, Vanvet PM/SS 296
Kill team, Sgt SB/Xeno, 2 SB/SS, 2 Frag, SB/CS, term SB/PM, Vanvet BP/CS 237
Kill Team, Sgt Stalker, 2 stalker/SS, ML, HB 137

2 Ven Dreads, ML, Twin las 330

2 Razorbacks, Twin AC, HKs 240

I've gone for tactical flexibility so that I can adjust to the mission and opponent. For example, take the typical smash captain configuration. He can be boosted with the warlord trait Castellan of the Black vault if I think I need to take on Knights etc, and/or given Beacon Angelis to redeploy a unit or if I need to play more defensively initially with a counter, given the Dominus Aegis to give 5+ invuls to Dreads and Razorbacks. Otherwise, the Watch Master can be my warlord with the Tome of Ectoclades/Lord of Hidden Knowledge standard.

My first 10 man kill team is pretty expensive, but was made that way for a specific reason. Being 10 man, I can combat squad it if I need to, plopping 5 of them in a razorback to rush an objective, leaving the other 5 (which will have to include the terminator and vanvet) to stay on foot or be placed in teleportarium. Alternatively, they stay as one large squad in the teleportarium. The second kill team will mostly be in teleportarium unless using Beacon Angelis on the jump pack captain.

My dreads give me some good AT, and air defence, along with the small KT with HB and ML for mortal wounds.

Not great, but I think it can probably be made to work.

Looking for some advice at 2k level

My list is basically

Battalion

Watchmaster tome of ecto , warlord lord of hidden knowledge
Jump Captain thunder hammer

Primaris squad 1
5 intercessors 5 hellblasters Sgt with chainsword

Primaris squad 2
5 intercessors 5 hellblasters Sgt with chainsword

Vet squad
6 vets 2 fragcannon 4 SB and chainsword

Vets
5 vets 3 combi melta 2 SB SS

Vets
5 vets 4 stalker bolters missile launcher 2 SS

Corvus
Asscannon stormstrike auspex scan and hurricanes

Vanguard detachment
Primaris Libby

Primaris apothecary

Ven dread twin las ml
Ven dread twin las ml

Basically I don't really think I have enough speed, the main plan is leave the stalker squad and dreads at the back to plink from cover. The 2 big primaris squads in reserve with the captain the vets go in the corvus but not sure what to do with watch master and librarian as my main plan is to use the primaris bomb to wreck the enemy with the jump Captain

Corvus and Melta vets are points that can be optimized, but in truth this close to CA dropping I'm loathe to say anything for fear of it being instantly obsoleted.