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Vet squads ARE the place to start, but be wary of the kit. There's a lot of options, but they're all limited at the same time.

Luckily you're just starting, so I would recommend proxying first to understand what kinda force you're after and then build it.

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys I want to start a new faction and after some deliberation I want to start Deathwatch. I don't have any Astartes army, but I have a large collection of Orks, Drukhari and Harlequins. I wanted an army that wouldn't have a high model count like the others but were pretty elite. Just wondering where to start. Absolutely love the look of the veteran squads.

I'm kind of in the same boat. Basically the main categories of units in Deathwatch that matter are 1) Veteran Kill teams, 2) Fortis Kill teams aka Primaris, 3) and Dreadnaughts. There are many many combinations and effective set ups of all three choices, a combination of which make up more Deathwatch lists.

It's entirely possible to make an army just out of Vet teams or Fortis teams, +/- Dreads, and a couple HQs. You can get a huge variation of units just depending on how you equip stuff and models you pick.

For purchasing, you'll want multiple Deathwatch boxes, and likely some Vanguard vets, Terminators, Bikes. Also an assortment of Primaris plus some Deathwatch upgrade kits. Of course start first with the Codex and start building some lists to see what you want.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys I want to start a new faction and after some deliberation I want to start Deathwatch. I don't have any Astartes army, but I have a large collection of Orks, Drukhari and Harlequins. I wanted an army that wouldn't have a high model count like the others but were pretty elite. Just wondering where to start. Absolutely love the look of the veteran squads.

I'm kind of in the same boat. Basically the main categories of units in Deathwatch that matter are 1) Veteran Kill teams, 2) Fortis Kill teams aka Primaris, 3) and Dreadnaughts. There are many many combinations and effective set ups of all three choices, a combination of which make up more Deathwatch lists.

It's entirely possible to make an army just out of Vet teams or Fortis teams, +/- Dreads, and a couple HQs. You can get a huge variation of units just depending on how you equip stuff and models you pick.

For purchasing, you'll want multiple Deathwatch boxes, and likely some Vanguard vets, Terminators, Bikes. Also an assortment of Primaris plus some Deathwatch upgrade kits. Of course start first with the Codex and start building some lists to see what you want.

Thanks dude, that's really helpful. I like the idea of several squads of kill teams and dreads

The Start Collecting is brilliant. I'd get two of those. Can convert the second Artemis easily. After that just peruse this thread the stars of the book are pretty well established.

I'd avoid Artemis. Sure the grenade is a neat trick but that's it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd avoid Artemis. Sure the grenade is a neat trick but that's it.

Well, if we're suggesting they start with a Veteran Kill Team box rather than the suggestion to hunt through bits sites for the actual meta worthy builds, then we're already giving them advice for a less efficient build. Might as well double down on that and throw Artemis into it too for fun lol

Theres nothing preventing you from running him as a vanilla watch captain.

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys I want to start a new faction and after some deliberation I want to start Deathwatch. I don't have any Astartes army, but I have a large collection of Orks, Drukhari and Harlequins. I wanted an army that wouldn't have a high model count like the others but were pretty elite. Just wondering where to start. Absolutely love the look of the veteran squads.

Well good, because I'd start there.

I guess the first question I'd have is: Do you want to be super competitive tournament-tier, or are you more interested in mid level play, which opens up your options considerably?

A guideline I'd have for super competitive play would be:

-Start with a CP-generating minimum detachment of allies, either Admech or Guard (I use Admech with the -1 to hit trait)
-Add in a Battalion of Deathwatch veterans. Focus heavily on Storm Bolters, Storm Shields, Combi-Plasmas, and Frag Cannons. I would plan on deep striking the three troop choices of the battalion and at least one of the HQs (I usually take a Terminator Captain)
-For your long range anti tank Dreadnoughts of the Venerable and Mortis Contemptor variety seem to be the best option for Deathwatch.

If you're going for a less competitive deathwatch setup you could bring in the flyer and build a few punchy dudes (or just put your frag cannons in there), bring some primaris marines, maybe some rhinos or razors for your vets, and go easier on the bits.

if I were building a competitive DW list from the ground up I'd be buying the following:

Start Collecting: Deathwatch
Squad Cassius Box from DW:O
Either a second Dreadnought kit, or if you fancy converting it, the plastic Contemptor Dreadnought
Ebay bits purchase a set of Storm Bolters (just get the arms from the terminator kit)
Possibly ebay some Storm Shields from some kit

This buy gives you 2 combi-plasmas, 2 storm shields, 2 Vanguard Veterans (you most likely will have to convert one to ditch the lightning claws) one bike (gets you a telehomer) one Terminator (Swap his Heavy Flamer for the Combi-Melta off the Iron hand marine).

5 storm shields (if you take the bit off the Squad Cassius Biker)
3 combi-plasmas (if you convert an additional combi-plasma from the squad cassius dark angel)
3 Frag Cannons

So the biggest thing you want is probably more storm bolters, and more storm shields. If you want to go super hard, ebay 10 of the former and 5 of the latter. Your venerable dreadnought will come with 1 storm bolter. The only models that are pure "conversions needed" in my opinion are Cassius, Artemis, plasma pistol/power sword guy and the libby, but all of them are in pretty open poses so converting comes easy. Plus you don't need any DW upgrade kits, and just the SC box and KTC box puts you well over 1000pts.

My conversion advice would be:

Cut Lightning Claws, Power swords, combi-flamer off artemis, bolt pistol hands off libby and cassius, maul off cassius. cut chainsword off space wolf.

Give both bolt pistols to the lightning claw vanvet. secret agent raven guard vanvet reporting for duty!
give cassius the chainsword and a regular bolter. Hello vanilla captain McDreadnoughtsitter!
errybody else gets ebayed SS/SBs.

Dont discount one or two 5-man sniper teams with Stalker Boltguns and 1 or 2 missile launchers for backline duty. It's not the glorious frag cannon and stormbolter SIA charge, but the capacity to reach out and touch pretty much anything on the table from a decent perch (preferably in cover for that sweet sweet 2+/3++ defensive profile) isnt to be underestimated.

Sterling191 wrote:
Dont discount one or two 5-man sniper teams with Stalker Boltguns and 1 or 2 missile launchers for backline duty. It's not the glorious frag cannon and stormbolter SIA charge, but the capacity to reach out and touch pretty much anything on the table from a decent perch (preferably in cover for that sweet sweet 2+/3++ defensive profile) isnt to be underestimated.

With the price cut on the CML, it might even be worth it to add one Terminator to those squads so that you can better tank certain weapons coming their way. Otherwise the combat squad with 4 Bikers and a Vanguard is still superb to me.

Sterling191 wrote:
Dont discount one or two 5-man sniper teams with Stalker Boltguns and 1 or 2 missile launchers for backline duty. It's not the glorious frag cannon and stormbolter SIA charge, but the capacity to reach out and touch pretty much anything on the table from a decent perch (preferably in cover for that sweet sweet 2+/3++ defensive profile) isnt to be underestimated.

That is also not a bad unit, but not something you get out of the box with 2 vet boxes. As you expand the army, I would definitely consider a Sternguard box (their SIA boltguns with the straps and sights are pretty identical looking to Stalkers) and you get a combi-plas and 2 SBs out of the deal.

Were I to go full pure deathwatch, I would definitely bring some backfield campers.

If I wanted to make a semi-casual semi-competitive pure deathwatch force, it would be something like:

Termie Captain for the droppers
Regular captain for the backfield
Foot chaplain for the roflplane
Libby for the roflplane

3x Dropper vets with 1 vanvet each and 1 biker in one (for the homer). One with some combiplasmas, one with all storm bolters, one with frag cannons.
2 backfield camper vet squads with Stalker Boltguns/SS's and maybe missile termies
melee kill team with some for-fun gear

Corvus for the melee team+libby+Chap
2-3 BS2+ dreads armed with antitank gear

That kind of a build lets you put all the different classic marine units on the table, lets you use the special deathwatch plane, have a variety of different model builds/configurations and make use of most of the fun deathwatch toys while still being relatively efficient and good at playing the game. If you're smart with your kit buying, you'll most likely only need to ebay a few storm shields/storm bolters for your troops.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

With the price cut on the CML, it might even be worth it to add one Terminator to those squads so that you can better tank certain weapons coming their way. Otherwise the combat squad with 4 Bikers and a Vanguard is still superb to me.

I personally avoid termies in my stalker teams. Costwise it's not really efficient as the CM is about as much as the rest of the squad combined (~70 points IIRC). If theyre taking small arms fire they're generally at longer range and not in a volume thats significant enough to warrant the termie durability. Plus if they're drawing fire from primary teams, be they SB/Frag, Plasma, or Dreads it's a net win IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:


That is also not a bad unit, but not something you get out of the box with 2 vet boxes. As you expand the army, I would definitely consider a Sternguard box (their SIA boltguns with the straps and sights are pretty identical looking to Stalkers) and you get a combi-plas and 2 SBs out of the deal.

Alternatively, a box of scouts is the perfect starting point for conversions for stalker teams. Not pure WYSIWYG straight off the sprue, but a little creativity and kit bashing takes care of the rest.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

If I wanted to make a semi-casual semi-competitive pure deathwatch force, it would be something like:

Termie Captain for the droppers
Regular captain for the backfield
Foot chaplain for the roflplane
Libby for the roflplane

3x Dropper vets with 1 vanvet each and 1 biker in one (for the homer). One with some combiplasmas, one with all storm bolters, one with frag cannons.
2 backfield camper vet squads with Stalker Boltguns/SS's and maybe missile termies
melee kill team with some for-fun gear

Corvus for the melee team+libby+Chap
2-3 BS2+ dreads armed with antitank gear

That kind of a build lets you put all the different classic marine units on the table, lets you use the special deathwatch plane, have a variety of different model builds/configurations and make use of most of the fun deathwatch toys while still being relatively efficient and good at playing the game. If you're smart with your kit buying, you'll most likely only need to ebay a few storm shields/storm bolters for your troops.

My current "funsies but somewhat serious" pure DW list is the following:

1x Jump cappy
1x Aegis cappy

2x Fortis Interblaster fire teams (5x Ints, 5x Hellblasters)
1x Fortis bully squad (5x ABR Ints, 1x Agg, 2x Rievers)

3x Vet teams (3x SBR/SS, 2x ML, 3x Bike, 2x BP/SS VanVets)

3x ML/LC VanVets.

Dreads with the camping Cappy (for the 5++) serve as the core base of fire supported by the three Stalker squads. The ComSquaded Bikes zoom upfield to harass and deal with objectives, and the Plasma boys deepstrike via strat to do that voodoo that they do. Bully squad is flexible, and can either drop in via telly or just hoof it to support the bikes.

It'll struggle against meta lists for sure (massed T8s are tough to crack with only three TwinLas) but in a very horde heavy meta it holds its own pretty respectably without being too FotM.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys I want to start a new faction and after some deliberation I want to start Deathwatch. I don't have any Astartes army, but I have a large collection of Orks, Drukhari and Harlequins. I wanted an army that wouldn't have a high model count like the others but were pretty elite. Just wondering where to start. Absolutely love the look of the veteran squads.

Well good, because I'd start there.

I guess the first question I'd have is: Do you want to be super competitive tournament-tier, or are you more interested in mid level play, which opens up your options considerably?

A guideline I'd have for super competitive play would be:

-Start with a CP-generating minimum detachment of allies, either Admech or Guard (I use Admech with the -1 to hit trait)
-Add in a Battalion of Deathwatch veterans. Focus heavily on Storm Bolters, Storm Shields, Combi-Plasmas, and Frag Cannons. I would plan on deep striking the three troop choices of the battalion and at least one of the HQs (I usually take a Terminator Captain)
-For your long range anti tank Dreadnoughts of the Venerable and Mortis Contemptor variety seem to be the best option for Deathwatch.

If you're going for a less competitive deathwatch setup you could bring in the flyer and build a few punchy dudes (or just put your frag cannons in there), bring some primaris marines, maybe some rhinos or razors for your vets, and go easier on the bits.

if I were building a competitive DW list from the ground up I'd be buying the following:

Start Collecting: Deathwatch
Squad Cassius Box from DW:O
Either a second Dreadnought kit, or if you fancy converting it, the plastic Contemptor Dreadnought
Ebay bits purchase a set of Storm Bolters (just get the arms from the terminator kit)
Possibly ebay some Storm Shields from some kit

This buy gives you 2 combi-plasmas, 2 storm shields, 2 Vanguard Veterans (you most likely will have to convert one to ditch the lightning claws) one bike (gets you a telehomer) one Terminator (Swap his Heavy Flamer for the Combi-Melta off the Iron hand marine).

5 storm shields (if you take the bit off the Squad Cassius Biker)
3 combi-plasmas (if you convert an additional combi-plasma from the squad cassius dark angel)
3 Frag Cannons

So the biggest thing you want is probably more storm bolters, and more storm shields. If you want to go super hard, ebay 10 of the former and 5 of the latter. Your venerable dreadnought will come with 1 storm bolter. The only models that are pure "conversions needed" in my opinion are Cassius, Artemis, plasma pistol/power sword guy and the libby, but all of them are in pretty open poses so converting comes easy. Plus you don't need any DW upgrade kits, and just the SC box and KTC box puts you well over 1000pts.

My conversion advice would be:

Cut Lightning Claws, Power swords, combi-flamer off artemis, bolt pistol hands off libby and cassius, maul off cassius. cut chainsword off space wolf.

Give both bolt pistols to the lightning claw vanvet. secret agent raven guard vanvet reporting for duty!
give cassius the chainsword and a regular bolter. llo vanilla captain McDreadnoughtsitter!
errybody else gets ebayed SS/SBs.

As always ,brilliant brilliant breakdown. Is it possible to field Deathwatch competitively without resorting to running guard blobs. I run my drukhari in the competitive scene, my quins are medium level and my orks are mostly funsies. I have to admit as I've started taking a more competitive mindset to 40k it feels like I auto build strong lists, though I do like experimenting! I know the blood angels smash captains are still very powerful, do DW have smash equivalents?

I was also thinking of running some imperial assassins as well. The starting boxes you recommend aren't too badly priced over here in the UK

Deathwatch kinda need the CP to function I feel. 180 isn't a terrible investment for camping objectives either.

I feel you though. I'm working on several ideas for a pure force with the ability to still be TAC, and it hurts the brain for sure.

Whats the opinion on Repulsors or the Corvus after CA? I like both models but its quite hard to fit them both in 1750points

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Whats the opinion on Repulsors or the Corvus after CA? I like both models but its quite hard to fit them both in 1750points

The biggest problems I have with the Repulsor in DW is lack of access to rerolling 1s to wound and the limited carrying capacity means you aren't able to put in a lot of the really cool mixed builds (ends up just bring Helltercessors). It's also a fire magnet if you don't have multiple heavy units to mess with your opponent's target priority.

It's super fun in codex lists, I just haven't had the opportunity to proxy in my Blood Ravens one for a DW game against an actual competitive list.

As for the Corvus, it's definitely cheaper...it just hasn't resolved it's biggest issues - paying that much for a gun boat that can't really shoot.

Hi all,

So, having just had my backside seriously tanned by a Necron Tesseract Vault I was wondering if anyone could assist with me putting together a plan.

I had put together a nice soup of 1 BA brigade, 1 DW Brigade and a heavy support of 2 x Helverins and a Warglaive.

The BA brigade has a couple of Lasconnon Razorbacks and a couple of Castellian armed Whirlwinds, Mephiston, Libby dread and scouts with HB
The DW brigade had a veteran squad with a Termie, HW Frag Cannon Vet and the rest with Storm Bolters and a few SS, plus 2 Intercessors squads, Watch Master and a Libby

I was up against the Vault, a Deceiver, two Doomsday Arks, a Ghost Arc packed with Immortals a unit of scarabs, plus some warriors that hung around the back with a Lord and did nothing.

It took me three turns to take out the Vault, enough time for him to ctan power Mephitson with some "Slay" power which I had no save against, the DDA's one shotted my razorback, the other got tied up with scarabs, the scouts and Primaris got shot to ribbons and the DW libby didn't get close enough for Null zone before being killed. Libby Dread and Warglaive got killed after Vault fell back after combat.

Any thoughts on how to best beat up a Vault?

p.s. I am particularly gutted as I seized initative and got first turn.

You can't put Immortals in an Ark.

lol.. That will teach me to know thine enemy!

To be honest, that fact didn't make much difference to the outcome

 gkos wrote:
Hi all,

So, having just had my backside seriously tanned by a Necron Tesseract Vault I was wondering if anyone could assist with me putting together a plan.

I had put together a nice soup of 1 BA brigade, 1 DW Brigade and a heavy support of 2 x Helverins and a Warglaive.

The BA brigade has a couple of Lasconnon Razorbacks and a couple of Castellian armed Whirlwinds, Mephiston, Libby dread and scouts with HB
The DW brigade had a veteran squad with a Termie, HW Frag Cannon Vet and the rest with Storm Bolters and a few SS, plus 2 Intercessors squads, Watch Master and a Libby

I was up against the Vault, a Deceiver, two Doomsday Arks, a Ghost Arc packed with Immortals a unit of scarabs, plus some warriors that hung around the back with a Lord and did nothing.

It took me three turns to take out the Vault, enough time for him to ctan power Mephitson with some "Slay" power which I had no save against, the DDA's one shotted my razorback, the other got tied up with scarabs, the scouts and Primaris got shot to ribbons and the DW libby didn't get close enough for Null zone before being killed. Libby Dread and Warglaive got killed after Vault fell back after combat.

Any thoughts on how to best beat up a Vault?

p.s. I am particularly gutted as I seized initative and got first turn.

Just use a SmashCap. If not this massed SB with SIA and the to wound strat. A unit of Aggressors could take some wounds off the Vault.

Necron weapons are a counter to marines if you have no invuln saves. Try to use the aegis for 5++ saves or a contemptor Dread. If you want to go big take the Leviathan Dread.

You used BA so go for DeathCompany or VenVets. With mass attacks and +1 to wound you are wounding on 4s.

So, one other thing to keep in mind with the ctan vault, I see a lot of people get this wrong:

The insta-kill power (times arrow) i presume he killed mephiston with makes you roll a D6 and get higher than a model's WOUNDS STAT. Everybody seems to read this as WOUNDS (as in, current wounds remaining).

Even if Mephiston was at only 1 wound left he would have to roll a 6 in order to insta-gib him. Still a great power against certain units but it should not be regularly oneshooting marine HQs.

And yeah, my advice here would definitely be echoing other peoples: storm bolters with Malleus doctrine stratagem will tear that thing to bits. 10 storm bolters should just about half-health it in one go. Another pretty good weapon against Living Metal is a Frag Cannon, since LM only procs off it on a 1.

You are correct, he did melt Mephiston and he did get the required roll, I was not a happy bunny.

T7, 28 wounds and 3+/4++ is still quite a tough nut to crack.

Event when I got it down to 4 wounds in turn 2, he spent a CP to make it run as though it was still full health and was still dishing out the MW.

I am new to DW, as I have a job lot of Primaris and think DW suits them better than my BA.

Captain Smash I didn't play as sometimes pulling out the same old same old can get a bit tedious, plus, now that fly on the charge is gone he just surrounds his big targets with scarabs and the Captain gets bogged down.

I will take your advice and bring out the old Death company, and proxy in more storm bolters!

p.s. built my first Agressor today, 2 more to go and they are going black, not red

Agressors dont get SIA! Be careful, don't go thinking they'll be poison 2+ bullet hoses.

Definitely deathwatch over bA for those guys though.

Thanks for the heads up on that, I was going to add one to the Primaris kill teams for close defense and also allow me to put the heavy weapons on the intercessors and still move about.

 gkos wrote:

T7, 28 wounds and 3+/4++ is still quite a tough nut to crack.

Massed plasma. With Tactics they're gonna be wounding on rerollable 2s for 2 damage a pop (which is FAR more efficient than trying to death by thousand cuts with storm bolters). Plus they're hard counters for the entire Necron vehicle arsenal.

10 combi-plasma/ss vets: 280
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wound 35/36 (malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++
1/6 blocked by Living Metal
12.47 damage.
0.0445 damage per point spent

10 SB/SS vets: 180
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wounds on 4s rerolling 1s (assuming malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++ (-1AP ammo)
9.09 damage.
0.0505 damage per point.

Also longer rapid fire range, also better against other targets.

Combiplas becomes worth it at T8, but SB's rock against T7 with good invulns.

the_scotsman wrote:
10 combi-plasma/ss vets: 280
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wound 35/36 (malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++
1/6 blocked by Living Metal
12.47 damage.
0.0445 damage per point spent

10 SB/SS vets: 180
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wounds on 4s rerolling 1s (assuming malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++ (-1AP ammo)
9.09 damage.
0.0505 damage per point.

Also longer rapid fire range, also better against other targets.

Combiplas becomes worth it at T8, but SB's rock against T7 with good invulns.

Just a question. What do you mean with „Living Metal blocking“?

Living Metal isnt blocking anything. It just restores 1 health per user round. It is NOT Quantum Shields


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PLUS PLUS IF you manage to kill the Vault you destroyed 550 of his points. Kill his destroyers (if hes got any) and you most probably have won.

the_scotsman wrote:
10 combi-plasma/ss vets: 280
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wound 35/36 (malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++
1/6 blocked by Living Metal
12.47 damage.
0.0445 damage per point spent

10 SB/SS vets: 180
Hit .777 (assuming reroll 1s)
Wounds on 4s rerolling 1s (assuming malleus tactic and strat)
1/2 blocked by 4++ (-1AP ammo)
9.09 damage.
0.0505 damage per point.

Also longer rapid fire range, also better against other targets.

Combiplas becomes worth it at T8, but SB's rock against T7 with good invulns.

SB/SS are 20, not 18 ppm. And Vaults don't have quantum shielding.

You are right on both counts - I forgot which rule was which for the necrons and used the cost for regular marines for storm Bolters.

So Combi plasma gets about .053 wounds per point and Storm Bolters about .045. Not bad given the plasma gives up only 20% efficiency against chaff. But, I still wouldn't call it FAR more efficient. Both those returns are very good.

If you're firing a whole squad you have over a 50% chance of losing a 28 point plasma guy though.

Honestly with no quantum shkelds those Helverins should have been dynamite against that thing. 4 wounds on average per shot. I'm surprised it took three turns to take out.

Maybe they got some rules wrong or just bad dice.