Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They do need LOS. However the pipe organ is pretty tall so they can usually see a lot.

Sterling191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Overwatch is never dangerous outside super niche scenarios, and those dangerous weapons are absorbed with those super cheap Storm Shields you can carry.

Not even close to reality, but sure. Fine. Save your two points and embrace the meta cookie cutter.

So nice to see the "hey we've got storm shields, we dont give a feth about actually thinking" mindset is already kicking in.

Except Overwatch really isn't dangerous.

Provide a list and the math, then. I'm looking forward to reading your findings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It’s 2 points for shock grenades and terror troops, plus a potentially nasty AP-3 shot in melee. They’re not gonna win battles by themselves, but they’re tricks folks don’t expect to get hit by.

Shock Grenades have like no range and an additional AP on the pistol isn't worth two points.

It absolutely is when you shut down an entire gunline and shove three Bike/VanVet teams down your enemies throat by bypassing overwatch.

Overwatch is never dangerous outside super niche scenarios, and those dangerous weapons are absorbed with those super cheap Storm Shields you can carry.

Chill out, Slayer. You're in a Deathwatch thread. You aren't even picking the right meta picks on anything you take.

Let people spend 2 meager points for situationally cool abilities and stop being such a damn piss poor community member about every. little. thing.

Now, for anybody that actually likes playing this game and Deathwatch Primaris in general, a Reiver is a good upgrade for a bully unit, and I approve of the combat squad with 3 Intercessors, an Aggressor, and a Reiver - super fun and effective.

Then the challenge extends to you. Provide a list of ALL the dangerous Overwatch and the math behind it.

How about the doppelganger with 2 Frag Cannons? They alone will probably kill 3-4 stormshield troops (because you're going to have reroll 1s to wound on them fro troops vs Deathwatch). Then factor in the stormbolters. haven't done the full math but 7 stormbolters, 2 frag cannons and 2 bolt pistols (assuming sgt, terminator, VV, 7 SB/SS) I'm guessing you're losing approx 6 marines on way (tanking on the terminator will really help vs the SB shots)

I agree that you can be a bit confrontational Slayer, but you're right, there's not many overwatch threats that Reivers shut down!

Big units of Dakkabots, leviathans with WM/CM support, and the big boys, Tau sept, are some examples of high-threat overwatch units. None of them are very bothered by the reiver's grenade - because a) it only works on infantry and b) tau sept trait still allows you to shoot with other closeby units, even if the unit being charged can't overwatch.

 grouchoben wrote:
I agree that you can be a bit confrontational Slayer, but you're right, there's not many overwatch threats that Reivers shut down!

Big units of Dakkabots, leviathans with WM/CM support, and the big boys, Tau sept, are some examples of high-threat overwatch units. None of them are very bothered by the reiver's grenade - because a) it only works on infantry and b) tau sept trait still allows you to shoot with other closeby units, even if the unit being charged can't overwatch.

The reiver nade is also all of 6 inches

Whilst I agree that the reiver grenade is of limited usefulness stating that overwatch is not dangerous is imo off the mark.

It may be that your local group doesn't play certain armies but in general tau and orks can put out pretty punishing overwatch, anything with flamer style weapons can often be unchangeable- castellan or wraithguard for an extreme examples. Guard vehicles can use a strat to hit better on OW and any large unit can just use weight of fire to push a few hits through.

Whilst most standard squads aren't particularly threatening on OW and I rarely let it discourage me if I think the combat with be useful for me In game terms overwatch can often cause unexpected casualties and for such an elite army as deathwatch is certainly not something we can afford to ignore.

Whether this makes the couple of extra points for a reiver worth it likely comes down to whether you have a couple of points spare after taking everything else you need - they are a pretty sweet model though and that is often reason enough

I was mulling some thoughts over in my blog, figured I’d get a more focused answer here. One of my goals for the year is to bolster my DW army. Right now it’s a foot librarian, captain Atremis, an old 10 man squad with bolters and 2xHFs (designed to play as sternguard in previous editions) and 5 intercessors (bolt rifles). I have built a ven dread, 2 inceptors, an 5 intercessors w/ assault rifles

Army plan:
Build plans

Other thoughts that might be more long-term.

 WisdomLS wrote:
Whilst I agree that the reiver grenade is of limited usefulness stating that overwatch is not dangerous is imo off the mark.

It may be that your local group doesn't play certain armies but in general tau and orks can put out pretty punishing overwatch, anything with flamer style weapons can often be unchangeable- castellan or wraithguard for an extreme examples. Guard vehicles can use a strat to hit better on OW and any large unit can just use weight of fire to push a few hits through.

Whilst most standard squads aren't particularly threatening on OW and I rarely let it discourage me if I think the combat with be useful for me In game terms overwatch can often cause unexpected casualties and for such an elite army as deathwatch is certainly not something we can afford to ignore.

Whether this makes the couple of extra points for a reiver worth it likely comes down to whether you have a couple of points spare after taking everything else you need - they are a pretty sweet model though and that is often reason enough

And the only listed extreme threat you listed that the grenade shuts off is the Wraithguard, who already have limited use as is, and luckily Vanguard can absorb those shots with cheap Storm Shields.

I already know it was brought up in a different thread, but Reivers are a pointless model that only has the model itself going for it. I WANT to like them, but they aren't good for anything but bitz. You can justify it's only 2 points, but those 2 points can buy a Storm Shield now. The latter is incredibly more useful.

This talk of reivers is for primarus marines, and how many DW are running Primaris? Except for some mortal wound spam intercept?

How many DW armies actually run Primaris? DW vets are better in all accounts unless mitigating mortal wound spam. I even own some DW intercessors etc, only time I use them if I am playing power level (they are cheap power for a battalion). I like all the old marines and I think the vet squads have way better rules and survivability/versatility/multi add units.

We don't have a lieutenant cause of our chapter tactics (though we could use that), yet we get primaris, they give us nothing.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
This talk of reivers is for primarus marines, and how many DW are running Primaris? Except for some mortal wound spam intercept?

How many DW armies actually run Primaris? DW vets are better in all accounts unless mitigating mortal wound spam. I even own some DW intercessors etc, only time I use them if I am playing power level (they are cheap power for a battalion). I like all the old marines and I think the vet squads have way better rules and survivability/versatility/multi add units.

We don't have a lieutenant cause of our chapter tactics (though we could use that), yet we get primaris, they give us nothing.

Weeeelp....I'd use a Primaris apothecary maybe! With marines doing so much of our wound tanking these days, and individual marines being ~20pts, this guy only needs to save/heal 3 dudes before he's worth it. I guess if you were using a lot of expensive marines (possibly like Terminators with meltafists/whirlwind launchers, frag cannon boys, combiplas/SS vets) then you could get your value out of the apothecary in just a couple turns by reviving them. He can also be quite nice to heal wounded characters, and I've found my characters tend to stick around surprisingly long with marines. I know it's...unusual, to say the least, but my last game I had a captain, chaplain and libby tank two rounds against a knight warden in melee, cause enough wounds for me to easily finish it off in shooting and the only one I lost was the chappie in the second round. Dude was a champ with those 4++ saves and he kept rolling 1 for his damage from the kick attacks. I could've probably gotten a lot more mileage out of the captain afterwards if I'd had an apothecary around to heal him up.

I just wish he was an HQ, he'd be in WAY more of my lists if that were the case.

Otherwise, like I said earlier, the biggest advantage of primaris teams is totally separated from the game. It's the "40$ total off ebay for the squad, no extra bits needed" that would have me going for a 5 inter 5 hellblast squad way before I went for the admittedly superior in game 5 ss/sb 5 combi-plas/ss vet team.

Looking over their rules, I don't hate the Plasma inceptors. Native DS, good flexibility over the standard plasma that has to be within 12", fast enough move with long enough range that if you had a good spot to tuck them out of LOS you could give them turn 1 threat, and they put out the same weight of plasma fire as two plasma vets. The biggest problem is the lack of invulns to tank for them and the weakness to D2 weaponry that plagues all primaris. Really wish they'd given that fancy gravis armor +1W and +1T. Actually, I think I might like Intercessor/Inceptor squads even better than the intercessor/hellblasters just because if you're committing to 5 intercessors to tank you might as well take the absolute most weight of plasma fire you can muster.

Agressors just seem to be trying to do Deathwatch's anti-chaff shtick, but worse because they can't wound everything on 2s and have no invulns. And in an anti-knight meta, you'd be nuts to bring a land raider and same goes for its flying equivalent. Split your anti tank into smaller dreadnought-shaped squads.

the_scotsman wrote:

I just wish he was an HQ, he'd be in WAY more of my lists if that were the case.

Eh, with his lack of customization and a cost only a smidge below Watch Captains, I don't think they'd see much play even in the HQ slot.

the_scotsman wrote:
Actually, I think I might like Intercessor/Inceptor squads even better than the intercessor/hellblasters just because if you're committing to 5 intercessors to tank you might as well take the absolute most weight of plasma fire you can muster.

While I like the concept (and have seen it in action a handful of times), at 385 points a pop it's a crazy expensive squad thats gonna draw fire from every enemy weapon on the board.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
This talk of reivers is for primarus marines, and how many DW are running Primaris? Except for some mortal wound spam intercept?

Hi there, how you doin'.

the_scotsman wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
This talk of reivers is for primarus marines, and how many DW are running Primaris? Except for some mortal wound spam intercept?

How many DW armies actually run Primaris? DW vets are better in all accounts unless mitigating mortal wound spam. I even own some DW intercessors etc, only time I use them if I am playing power level (they are cheap power for a battalion). I like all the old marines and I think the vet squads have way better rules and survivability/versatility/multi add units.

We don't have a lieutenant cause of our chapter tactics (though we could use that), yet we get primaris, they give us nothing.

Weeeelp....I'd use a Primaris apothecary maybe! With marines doing so much of our wound tanking these days, and individual marines being ~20pts, this guy only needs to save/heal 3 dudes before he's worth it. I guess if you were using a lot of expensive marines (possibly like Terminators with meltafists/whirlwind launchers, frag cannon boys, combiplas/SS vets) then you could get your value out of the apothecary in just a couple turns by reviving them. He can also be quite nice to heal wounded characters, and I've found my characters tend to stick around surprisingly long with marines. I know it's...unusual, to say the least, but my last game I had a captain, chaplain and libby tank two rounds against a knight warden in melee, cause enough wounds for me to easily finish it off in shooting and the only one I lost was the chappie in the second round. Dude was a champ with those 4++ saves and he kept rolling 1 for his damage from the kick attacks. I could've probably gotten a lot more mileage out of the captain afterwards if I'd had an apothecary around to heal him up.

I just wish he was an HQ, he'd be in WAY more of my lists if that were the case.

Otherwise, like I said earlier, the biggest advantage of primaris teams is totally separated from the game. It's the "40$ total off ebay for the squad, no extra bits needed" that would have me going for a 5 inter 5 hellblast squad way before I went for the admittedly superior in game 5 ss/sb 5 combi-plas/ss vet team.

Looking over their rules, I don't hate the Plasma inceptors. Native DS, good flexibility over the standard plasma that has to be within 12", fast enough move with long enough range that if you had a good spot to tuck them out of LOS you could give them turn 1 threat, and they put out the same weight of plasma fire as two plasma vets. The biggest problem is the lack of invulns to tank for them and the weakness to D2 weaponry that plagues all primaris. Really wish they'd given that fancy gravis armor +1W and +1T. Actually, I think I might like Intercessor/Inceptor squads even better than the intercessor/hellblasters just because if you're committing to 5 intercessors to tank you might as well take the absolute most weight of plasma fire you can muster.

Agressors just seem to be trying to do Deathwatch's anti-chaff shtick, but worse because they can't wound everything on 2s and have no invulns. And in an anti-knight meta, you'd be nuts to bring a land raider and same goes for its flying equivalent. Split your anti tank into smaller dreadnought-shaped squads.

I see the viability of an apothecary, but for the points compared to points back idk. I have trialed a few times, but because my big squads teleport in, the apoth is not there to utilise his ability so is stuck back with the average units. Few times got him up idk, think points spent better else where.

I have a big DW army so money is not a real factor for me. But for others, you want to spend say $120AU on a unit that is good and looks average or $150AU (arbitrary numbers, I customise all my units a lot idk what spend on them) on a unit that is great and looks awesome (with customisation, I know what I would/have picked). I have trialed a lot of different units and layouts in games (I have math hammered a bit, but actually played them a lot). In a position I can run anything I want and found (for my play style), honestly primaris...are crap, DW veterans (with vanguards/termies etc) kick the gak out of them.

Just my play style and I travel a lot so different opponents but is how I roll. I just cant justify primaris in a list tbh unless playing power.

But each to own, if want to run them more power to ya and have fun.

Yeah, the biggest struggle primaris have is that the second you present your opponent with one good target and a bunch of bad targets, the one good target will hoover up every bit of fire that could have been lost shooting the bad ones.

I want every available target for my opponent's short-range anti-elite shooting weapons to be a storm shield, or a vehicle outside of double-tapping/melta range.

if i bring a unit of Primaris, suddenly that's out the window, and my opponent can bring every plasma gun to bear efficiently against something that doesn't have an invuln to make it worth less.

That's why to me the ideal setup is all infantry protected by invulns (Or cheap chaff that is inefficient to shoot with antielite weapons) and all vehicles being longrange sitting in backline, ideally also all protected by invulns.

Every anti-chaff weapon is made inefficient by basic toughness and high save.

Every anti-elite weapon is made inefficient by a storm shield

Every anti-tank weapon is made (slightly) more inefficient by a 5++ invuln, and some weapons by the fact that my tanks sit at 36" and there's a pile of bodies in the midboard making 12-24" range weapons more difficult to bring to bear.

I honestly think GW made a bit of an error with our new vets. They are now head and shoulders above our primaris, who themselves are leagues ahead of most marine troops.

 grouchoben wrote:
I honestly think GW made a bit of an error with our new vets. They are now head and shoulders above our primaris, who themselves are leagues ahead of most marine troops.

Bit of an ironic statement right there.

 grouchoben wrote:
I honestly think GW made a bit of an error with our new vets. They are now head and shoulders above our primaris, who themselves are leagues ahead of most marine troops.

I'm fine with the price points of the units. I'm NOT fine with the pricing of Storm Shields. That was honestly ridiculous.

25pts->20pts is a 20% drop on SS/SB Vets, that's one of the biggest drops in CA. And it fell on what was already one of our very top picks.

That's all. Hey, I love it for my army, I'm just sayin.

 grouchoben wrote:
25pts->20pts is a 20% drop on SS/SB Vets, that's one of the biggest drops in CA. And it fell on what was already one of our very top picks.

That's all. Hey, I love it for my army, I'm just sayin.

That would fall in line with the rumor of minimarines getting a 20% drop were correct.

Most of my minimarines have generally been repurposed Vets now. I think this was the intent...not a mistake.

SS/SB vets are definitely cool on paper, but my ass isn't buying all the bits to make them. Although if I didn't get all these primaris marines for practically free I would probably do a squad or two. I'll shoot for the cool factor instead.

How many terminators are you guys bringing in your squads? One is good obviously, but lately I've been making lists with 2 for added bullet catching. Firepower in the unit stays the same and it's only maginally more expensive.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
How many terminators are you guys bringing in your squads? One is good obviously, but lately I've been making lists with 2 for added bullet catching. Firepower in the unit stays the same and it's only maginally more expensive.

2 is a good number. I also put 2 bikes in each unit as well. these 4 models become my 2+ save, Mortal wound catchers

I've found I've been perfectly happy with just 1 and haven't felt the need for more than that JUST yet. There is worth into figuring out the advantages of even more Terminators though.

Have you guys found a good way to implement a Leviathan Dread in a mono list?

I tried with a Librarian supreme command for support.

Any way of doing a rhino rush unit? Just chainswords?

An idea stolen from this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/769792.page
Seems like it could be a solution to a couple issues we have. We lack a good transport that has both survivability and contributes decent firepower, particularly anti-tank firepower. The Achilles has both of those.
A Landraider with 19 wounds, 4+ invuln, and a bunch of high strength shooting. Transport capacity isn't great, but it can offload small shortranged squads pretty reliably.

I'm not sure I'll be running out to buy a couple, but the idea is intriguing.

Here's a sample list.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
An idea stolen from this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/769792.page
Seems like it could be a solution to a couple issues we have. We lack a good transport that has both survivability and contributes decent firepower, particularly anti-tank firepower. The Achilles has both of those.
A Landraider with 19 wounds, 4+ invuln, and a bunch of high strength shooting. Transport capacity isn't great, but it can offload small shortranged squads pretty reliably.

I'm not sure I'll be running out to buy a couple, but the idea is intriguing.

Here's a sample list.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [126 PL, 1820pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Armory of the Watch Fortress (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Watch Captain [7 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Beacon Angelis, Thunder hammer

Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]

+ Troops +

Veterans [19 PL, 287pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Watch Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm Bolter

Veterans [19 PL, 207pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Storm shield
. Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Storm shield
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
. Watch Sergeant: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

Veterans [11 PL, 123pts]
. Black Shield: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Xenophase Blade

Veterans [21 PL, 235pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Maul and Stormbolter: Power maul, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: 2x Bolt Pistol
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Achilles [21 PL, 357pts]: Quad launcher, Storm bolter, 2x Twin multi-melta

Land Raider Achilles [21 PL, 357pts]: Quad launcher, Storm bolter, 2x Twin multi-melta

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [13 PL, 180pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila, Warlord

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

++ Total: [139 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I quite like it from a thematic point of view as I think it will look cool on the table and it's makes sense for death watch to have gucci toys.
Tactically I think it has a lot of plus points offering a lot of anti-tank weapons that DW needs on one platform giving good bang for your buck with doctrine stratagems and storm bolter vets seem like the perfect unit to throw in there. On the downside not sure it's tough enough for its points, especially when DW can give ranged vehicles a 5+ easily.
I've been looking at FW myself for vehicles that would work well with DW, the leviathan and mortis dreadnoughts previously mentioned still seem to have, the best points to cost ratio, but the achilles, helios and spartan all have a lot of weaponry one unit (8 lascannons potentially wounding on 2s with the spartan) and while the spartan is very expensive it can still shoot in combat.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
An idea stolen from this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/769792.page
Seems like it could be a solution to a couple issues we have. We lack a good transport that has both survivability and contributes decent firepower, particularly anti-tank firepower. The Achilles has both of those.
A Landraider with 19 wounds, 4+ invuln, and a bunch of high strength shooting. Transport capacity isn't great, but it can offload small shortranged squads pretty reliably.

I'm not sure I'll be running out to buy a couple, but the idea is intriguing.

Here's a sample list.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [126 PL, 1820pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Armory of the Watch Fortress (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Watch Captain [7 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Beacon Angelis, Thunder hammer

Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]

+ Troops +

Veterans [19 PL, 287pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Watch Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm Bolter

Veterans [19 PL, 207pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm shield
. Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Storm shield
. Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Storm shield
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
. Watch Sergeant: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

Veterans [11 PL, 123pts]
. Black Shield: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter
. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Xenophase Blade

Veterans [21 PL, 235pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Biker w/ Teleport Homer: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Maul and Stormbolter: Power maul, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: 2x Bolt Pistol
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Achilles [21 PL, 357pts]: Quad launcher, Storm bolter, 2x Twin multi-melta

Land Raider Achilles [21 PL, 357pts]: Quad launcher, Storm bolter, 2x Twin multi-melta

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [13 PL, 180pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila, Warlord

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

++ Total: [139 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Consider that your bringing a Knight like chassis into a meta designed to kill a Knight per turn.

TBF I think your better of with a heavy support detachment with quadmortar rapiers then with 2 achilles

I actually quite like the idea with the Achilles. Supported with some AssaultCannon Razorbacks it makes a nice semi competitive list.

The thing is 350 points though, give or take.

We definitely need more dedicated tank killers. For sure. Going the FW route, the Achilles isn't the answer we need. It suffers from one key thing that all the other Land Raiders suffer from, and for once it isn't a durability issue:
A mere Gaunt can charge one and stop it from shooting. With the weapons being 24" in range, it wouldn't exactly be hard to pull off either.

I tried running this unit against a Tyranid army the other day. It didn't do bad at all. It is quite expensive, but packs a huge defensive punch.

Veteran Squad:
3x Veteran w/ Shotgun
2x Veteran w/ Frag Cannon
2x Veteran w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist, Melta Gun

That is 11 D6 flamer profiles at varying strengths/ranges. I melted a unit of 30 Hormagaunts, and took a unit of 30 (I think that was the number) Gene Stealers down to 4. They also aren't slouches at range. They took down a Carnifex outside flamer range quickly.

The unit size also fits in a Corvus Blackstar if you wanted to fly them in.

Situational, but fun!