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Had my second game of 8th today using my death watch and did pretty well, he took Ultramarines with calgar with a small death watch detachment. I lost 15-16 but one more turn id have won heavily.

I took battalion with

Watch master
Primaris captain win plasma and PF


Primaris squad
5 intercessors 5 hellblasters

Primaris squad
5 intercessors 4 hellblasters

Primaris squad
5 intercessors 3 aggressors 1 inceptor

Vets
5 SB SS 2 frag cannon

Vanguard det
Smash captain

Ven dread
Ml TL

Ven dread
ML TL

Redemptor with dakka

Apothecary

Basically I sat quite far back and slugged it out with him then dropped in my vets and big squad of plasma intercessors and wiped multiple enemy units of the board. He had very little left and my units really did very well but I was not decisive enough to move units forward quickly to take objectives. Need some faster units to help me out grabbing objectives later in the game. I really fancy some inceptors or maybe an allied detachment with some scout bikers but I'm not sure yet.

Will be getting a repulsor soon.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I really fancy some inceptors or maybe an allied detachment with some scout bikers but I'm not sure yet.

Combat squadded Veterans with 3 bikes, 2 Vanguard Vets. 12" movement, 14 SIA shots out to 15", Obsec and two stormshields, all at a T5 stat line to mess with incoming S8 and S9 fire.

Also, Bikes in this fashion arent technically <BIKER> keyworded for anything other than fitting in transports. That means they can move through a whole lot more stuff than say allied Scout Bikes.

reevesshady wrote:
I tried running this unit against a Tyranid army the other day. It didn't do bad at all. It is quite expensive, but packs a huge defensive punch.

Veteran Squad:
3x Veteran w/ Shotgun
2x Veteran w/ Frag Cannon
2x Veteran w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist, Melta Gun

That is 11 D6 flamer profiles at varying strengths/ranges. I melted a unit of 30 Hormagaunts, and took a unit of 30 (I think that was the number) Gene Stealers down to 4. They also aren't slouches at range. They took down a Carnifex outside flamer range quickly.

The unit size also fits in a Corvus Blackstar if you wanted to fly them in.

Situational, but fun!

I guess I am just not seeing a situation where I'd ever want an infernus heavy bolter over one of these options:

-Regular Heavy Bolter. If I want to use the stratagem for mortal wounds.
-Frag Cannon. If I'm in for that many points, might as well get the big flamer!
-combi-flamer. Nearly as strong, and not...thirty points...

I think shotguns are fun (and underrated, overshadowed as they are by the almighty storm bolter). You deal slightly less than half the storm bolter does on the deep strike down but you do add a lot of protection vs chaff with the wyrmbreath overwatch and cryptclearer can be really useful for chunking out two wound models. Basically they're an investment into the squad doing something more than jst deep striking and getting in one shot.

As a Death Guard player who doesn't play against Deathwatch very often, what do I need to watch out for a in a competitive game? I know there are really nasty flamers in the infantry squads and that the flyers are really good, but I don't know what else to be aware of in terms of scary units, weird stratagems, etc.

 Virules wrote:
As a Death Guard player who doesn't play against Deathwatch very often, what do I need to watch out for a in a competitive game? I know there are really nasty flamers in the infantry squads and that the flyers are really good, but I don't know what else to be aware of in terms of scary units, weird stratagems, etc.

The biggest concern is probably going to be the poison 2+ ammo on their basic guns. Any spells, stratagems, whatever that make you tougher via adding to the Toughness stat should be basically ignored. They have an acute weakness to mortal wounds, so the plaguecasters should be pretty effective against them if properly screened. Dumping in mortal wounds in the psychic phase should probably convince the deathwatch player to take out the Terminators in the squad (since they have 2W) then in the shooting phase the bolter/ss guys can be dakka'd to death with small arms 0AP fire pretty efficiently.

If its a full Deathwatch list then you're gonna need to remember that effectively any infantry or biker model you see (barring HQs) is almost certainly going to have ObSec.

In objective games a good DW player will really screw with you in regards to what you have to kill to deny objective scoring.

 Virules wrote:
As a Death Guard player who doesn't play against Deathwatch very often, what do I need to watch out for a in a competitive game? I know there are really nasty flamers in the infantry squads and that the flyers are really good, but I don't know what else to be aware of in terms of scary units, weird stratagems, etc.

1: the fliers aren't really good, if he's bringing fliers you're getting off easy.

2: nearly every unit will be ObSec, and tough to bring down (3++ invulns, terminators saves, and toughness 5 bikes, all in the same unit). If he's good then it will be vet squads, Primaris aren't as good as the miniMarine squads. The troop squads can be configured to handle any role he feels like, super customizable.

3: your high toughness won't help you, unless they are vehicles. Special issue ammo will wound everything except your vehicles on a 2+. He will blow through your tougher than normal infantry/Monsters/characters faster than you think

4: he may be deceptively mobile. Beacon Angelis can pull a squad across the table and he can deepstrike three units (potentially more). Also may have bike/vanguard combat squads that are fast and ObSec.

5: His range may be better than you think, Special Ammo may extend his range by 6 inches.

6: he's more likely to win because he scores on everything rather than just from killing stuff. Better players when facing a bad matchup may still win just by obliterating the opposing troops in the first couple turns and then outscoring the opposition the rest of the game (because most of the Deathwatch are ObSec troops).

7: weaknesses are A: Mortal Wounds can be rough for Deathwatch. B: Vehicles can potentially be difficult and often players will soup in some anti tank help.

the_scotsman wrote:

reevesshady wrote:
I tried running this unit against a Tyranid army the other day. It didn't do bad at all. It is quite expensive, but packs a huge defensive punch.

Veteran Squad:
3x Veteran w/ Shotgun
2x Veteran w/ Frag Cannon
2x Veteran w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist
1x Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Fist, Melta Gun

That is 11 D6 flamer profiles at varying strengths/ranges. I melted a unit of 30 Hormagaunts, and took a unit of 30 (I think that was the number) Gene Stealers down to 4. They also aren't slouches at range. They took down a Carnifex outside flamer range quickly.

The unit size also fits in a Corvus Blackstar if you wanted to fly them in.

Situational, but fun!

I guess I am just not seeing a situation where I'd ever want an infernus heavy bolter over one of these options:

-Regular Heavy Bolter. If I want to use the stratagem for mortal wounds.
-Frag Cannon. If I'm in for that many points, might as well get the big flamer!
-combi-flamer. Nearly as strong, and not...thirty points...

I think shotguns are fun (and underrated, overshadowed as they are by the almighty storm bolter). You deal slightly less than half the storm bolter does on the deep strike down but you do add a lot of protection vs chaff with the wyrmbreath overwatch and cryptclearer can be really useful for chunking out two wound models. Basically they're an investment into the squad doing something more than jst deep striking and getting in one shot.

For what it's worth, I do think the round for rerolling all wounds has a purpose. The D2 one is kinda hard to pull off against the appropriate targets. Overwatch round is meh as well.

They really should've been a 2 point weapon. Then it would look like a sidegrade to the regular SIA Bolter.

So I bit the bullet and bought a relic leviathan dread to try in 1500-2k lists. How would I include it in my army list? As and auxiliary detachment at -1CP ? Ive seen many people taking one but I did not see how they were doing it.

You need to include one other heavy support choice in the same detachment as well due to the relic rule, so you cannot use an auxiliary detachment.

ItsPug wrote:
You need to include one other heavy support choice in the same detachment as well due to the relic rule, so you cannot use an auxiliary detachment.

what do people usually take? It has to be forgeworld right?

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

ItsPug wrote:
You need to include one other heavy support choice in the same detachment as well due to the relic rule, so you cannot use an auxiliary detachment.

what do people usually take? It has to be forgeworld right?

Nope. Any non-Relic heavy support choice. It's actually a significant downside to taking the Leviathan in the Deathwatch, though; I use 100pt Reiver squads to fill the Relic requirement for my Relic Contemptors, but if you want a plastic unit to fill the Relic requirement for a Leviathan your cheapest pick is five Hellblasters at 165pts.

Opening up Forge World for consideration I'd suggest looking at Mortis Dreadnaughts since they're both non-Relic Heavy Support units that you can build out of plastic kits (with a bit of surgery/spare parts); the regular one inexplicably didn't get a price drop to line up with the regular Castaferrum so it's probably better to take the Contemptor since it's a 13pt upgrade to get two extra wounds, a 5++, and starting BS of 2+ (though on a degrading table). Load it with lascannons and it's a similar price to the Hellblasters but tougher and notably superior at engaging targets more than 15" away.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

ItsPug wrote:
You need to include one other heavy support choice in the same detachment as well due to the relic rule, so you cannot use an auxiliary detachment.

what do people usually take? It has to be forgeworld right?

Nope. Any non-Relic heavy support choice. It's actually a significant downside to taking the Leviathan in the Deathwatch, though; I use 100pt Reiver squads to fill the Relic requirement for my Relic Contemptors, but if you want a plastic unit to fill the Relic requirement for a Leviathan your cheapest pick is five Hellblasters at 165pts.

Opening up Forge World for consideration I'd suggest looking at Mortis Dreadnaughts since they're both non-Relic Heavy Support units that you can build out of plastic kits (with a bit of surgery/spare parts); the regular one inexplicably didn't get a price drop to line up with the regular Castaferrum so it's probably better to take the Contemptor since it's a 13pt upgrade to get two extra wounds, a 5++, and starting BS of 2+ (though on a degrading table). Load it with lascannons and it's a similar price to the Hellblasters but tougher and notably superior at engaging targets more than 15" away.

Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

Tax units you don't really want (Land Raiders, Hellblasters without ObSec that don't have cheap ablative bodies in front of them). Autocannon Mortis fills the requirements to field the Leviathan more cheaply than most alternatives, it isn't something i'd normally think to take so I shall look forward to hearing how it performs for you.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

Tax units you don't really want (Land Raiders, Hellblasters without ObSec that don't have cheap ablative bodies in front of them). Autocannon Mortis fills the requirements to field the Leviathan more cheaply than most alternatives, it isn't something i'd normally think to take so I shall look forward to hearing how it performs for you.

I was originally going to take the leviathan with two storm cannon array but if I take the mortis that may be too many autocannons( if there is such a thing). What is the preferred weapon loadout dual grav flux bombards or dual stom cannon or one of each? I typically only take a single redemptor with gatling cannons sand dep strike it so using the Lev and Mort will be different.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

Tax units you don't really want (Land Raiders, Hellblasters without ObSec that don't have cheap ablative bodies in front of them). Autocannon Mortis fills the requirements to field the Leviathan more cheaply than most alternatives, it isn't something i'd normally think to take so I shall look forward to hearing how it performs for you.

I was originally going to take the leviathan with two storm cannon array but if I take the mortis that may be too many autocannons( if there is such a thing). What is the preferred weapon loadout dual grav flux bombards or dual stom cannon or one of each? I typically only take a single redemptor with gatling cannons sand dep strike it so using the Lev and Mort will be different.

I have found the grav cannons to be fun, but way too swingy for competitive. Storm cannons have amazing synergy with +1 to wound stratagem. As your 20 autocannon shots are now closer to 20 overcharged plasma shots (that would T6 and below on 2's). You're likely only going to get one shooting phase at full profile, so make it count.

RogueApiary wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

Tax units you don't really want (Land Raiders, Hellblasters without ObSec that don't have cheap ablative bodies in front of them). Autocannon Mortis fills the requirements to field the Leviathan more cheaply than most alternatives, it isn't something i'd normally think to take so I shall look forward to hearing how it performs for you.

I was originally going to take the leviathan with two storm cannon array but if I take the mortis that may be too many autocannons( if there is such a thing). What is the preferred weapon loadout dual grav flux bombards or dual stom cannon or one of each? I typically only take a single redemptor with gatling cannons sand dep strike it so using the Lev and Mort will be different.

I have found the grav cannons to be fun, but way too swingy for competitive. Storm cannons have amazing synergy with +1 to wound stratagem. As your 20 autocannon shots are now closer to 20 overcharged plasma shots (that would T6 and below on 2's). You're likely only going to get one shooting phase at full profile, so make it count.

What if I were to cast Might of heroes on him? would that likely increase his usefulness for more than a turn? T9 2+/4++ sounds good to me against most non competitive lists. my Meta is filled mostly with "Fluff bunnies" so in the event I did take it to a tournament I feel the leviathan could be nasty. Right after our codex dropped I took an all infantry list to a 1k tourney and mopped the floor with everyone.

Are there any Dakka Dreadnoughts? Im looking for one but as it seems the best dakka platform we have is the razorback? ( apart from our basic troops with SB or Aggressors)

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are there any Dakka Dreadnoughts? Im looking for one but as it seems the best dakka platform we have is the razorback? ( apart from our basic troops with SB or Aggressors)

I have used the redemptor dread with heavy onslaught, onslaught, and dual storm bolters to great effect for 155pts. Casting might of heroes on it would make it T8 13 wounds. our dreads can be deep struck also which is awesome for getting into that sweet spot shooting range.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Whats the significant downside? Isnt being able to deepstrike it and use other strats on it a significant? I do have a old metal dread I converted into a auto cannon rifleman dread I though about using as a mortis.

Tax units you don't really want (Land Raiders, Hellblasters without ObSec that don't have cheap ablative bodies in front of them). Autocannon Mortis fills the requirements to field the Leviathan more cheaply than most alternatives, it isn't something i'd normally think to take so I shall look forward to hearing how it performs for you.

I was originally going to take the leviathan with two storm cannon array but if I take the mortis that may be too many autocannons( if there is such a thing). What is the preferred weapon loadout dual grav flux bombards or dual stom cannon or one of each? I typically only take a single redemptor with gatling cannons sand dep strike it so using the Lev and Mort will be different.

I have found the grav cannons to be fun, but way too swingy for competitive. Storm cannons have amazing synergy with +1 to wound stratagem. As your 20 autocannon shots are now closer to 20 overcharged plasma shots (that would T6 and below on 2's). You're likely only going to get one shooting phase at full profile, so make it count.

What if I were to cast Might of heroes on him? would that likely increase his usefulness for more than a turn? T9 2+/4++ sounds good to me against most non competitive lists. my Meta is filled mostly with "Fluff bunnies" so in the event I did take it to a tournament I feel the leviathan could be nasty. Right after our codex dropped I took an all infantry list to a 1k tourney and mopped the floor with everyone.

MoH would definitely help, but generally if you're taking a Leviathan, you don't offer up many other armored targets, so literally every AT weapon in range is going to be pointed at him.

Also keep in mind a Knight Gallant is only like 49 more points for 10 more wounds, stupid fast movement, a better invuln to shooting for 1CP, and beastly close combat potential.

That said, if your local meta is non competitive, a single Leviathan should do great. They're a very solid choice. If the relic restriction wasn't a thing I'd seriously consider two of them in a list.

RogueApiary wrote:

Also keep in mind a Knight Gallant is only like 49 more points for 10 more wounds, stupid fast movement, a better invuln to shooting for 1CP, and beastly close combat potential.

They're two fundamentally different unit roles, and the Gallant gets zero synergy from a Deathwatch army.

Anyone use apothecarys? I used one in my last game he literally did nothing but I put him in to fill out a vanguard detachment.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Are there any Dakka Dreadnoughts? Im looking for one but as it seems the best dakka platform we have is the razorback? ( apart from our basic troops with SB or Aggressors)

I find that since the infantry kill enemy infantry so well the vehicles are better used to kill hard targets, since the infantry struggle some there. The basic Dreadnaught is quite cheap but it's actual options are somewhat limiting (the "dakka" loadout is twin-lascannon/ML); it does similar things to a lascannon Razorback with a bit more firepower and can't be used to bunker infantry. The FW Mortis/Contemptor-Mortis are a bit more expensive but are way more customizable since you get two of whatever gun you want, which make them cheaper per unit lascannon than either Razorbacks or standard Dreadnaughts.

I dislike the Redemptor generally; its guns are a bit more cost-effective than the guns on normal Dreadnaughts but its base price is 20+pts higher since you can't leave the powerfist behind, it's stuck at BS3+, and it can't replicate the ranged AT performance of a Castaferrum or a Contemptor with twin lascannons. I'm skeptical of the Onslaught loadout simply because infantry are never what my Deathwatch army struggles to kill, it's always armour that's the problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone use apothecarys? I used one in my last game he literally did nothing but I put him in to fill out a vanguard detachment.

I've tried. They're funny but they never seem to do much; my infantry never get into stand-up firefights, they're always angling for the alpha-strike and pushing down the table. I think if you were to take a big pseudo-Devastator squad with ML Veterans and Cyclone Terminators to sit on backfield objectives, take saves on your Terminators when possible, and use the Apothecary to bring the Terminators back if they went down they might be funny, but that feels like assembling a chunk of your list just to make the Apothecary do something.

The C.Mortis twin autocannon dread is only 148 points. Toss in the CML and it ends up points comparable to a Helverin for significantly better damage output.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone use apothecarys? I used one in my last game he literally did nothing but I put him in to fill out a vanguard detachment.

I haven't found much use to them. While they work better with Deathwatch, you have to revive 4 dudes usually to get their cost back.

I know it isn't the correct thread, but I hypothetically them to be at least mediocre with Crimson Fists (the new Chapter Tactics for them), while using them to revive Assault Centurions, Aggressors, and Inceptors. Then they basically get a bonus at shooting anything, which is nice.

Sterling191 wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

Also keep in mind a Knight Gallant is only like 49 more points for 10 more wounds, stupid fast movement, a better invuln to shooting for 1CP, and beastly close combat potential.

They're two fundamentally different unit roles, and the Gallant gets zero synergy from a Deathwatch army.

Their roles overlap a lot. They both kill big scary things, typically vehicles. Only the Gallant even without synergies can actually threaten a 3++ Knight whereas the Leviathan with full DW buffs/auras and stationary can expect to do 5-6 damage.

The Gallant fills a pretty important capability gap in the DW lineup, so I'm not seeing the argument for it having zero synergy unless you're strictly talking about auras and stratagems.

Any thoughts on Chaplain Dreadnaughts? I know they're not on Forgeworld anymore but they're out there on eBay. Character walkers with some nice fire power and buffs sounds pretty good to me

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Virules wrote:
As a Death Guard player who doesn't play against Deathwatch very often, what do I need to watch out for a in a competitive game? I know there are really nasty flamers in the infantry squads and that the flyers are really good, but I don't know what else to be aware of in terms of scary units, weird stratagems, etc.

1: the fliers aren't really good, if he's bringing fliers you're getting off easy.

2: nearly every unit will be ObSec, and tough to bring down (3++ invulns, terminators saves, and toughness 5 bikes, all in the same unit). If he's good then it will be vet squads, Primaris aren't as good as the miniMarine squads. The troop squads can be configured to handle any role he feels like, super customizable.

3: your high toughness won't help you, unless they are vehicles. Special issue ammo will wound everything except your vehicles on a 2+. He will blow through your tougher than normal infantry/Monsters/characters faster than you think

4: he may be deceptively mobile. Beacon Angelis can pull a squad across the table and he can deepstrike three units (potentially more). Also may have bike/vanguard combat squads that are fast and ObSec.

5: His range may be better than you think, Special Ammo may extend his range by 6 inches.

6: he's more likely to win because he scores on everything rather than just from killing stuff. Better players when facing a bad matchup may still win just by obliterating the opposing troops in the first couple turns and then outscoring the opposition the rest of the game (because most of the Deathwatch are ObSec troops).

7: weaknesses are A: Mortal Wounds can be rough for Deathwatch. B: Vehicles can potentially be difficult and often players will soup in some anti tank help.

That's really helpful, thanks. I'm taking three PBCs with spitters and a supporating plate prince and a 10-man unit of Blightlords to LVO. Sounds like it will be tough but I have some decent units for fighting Deathwatch.

 Elfric wrote:
Any thoughts on Chaplain Dreadnaughts? I know they're not on Forgeworld anymore but they're out there on eBay. Character walkers with some nice fire power and buffs sounds pretty good to me

They just provide the LD bubble and S5 basically don't they?

 Elfric wrote:
Any thoughts on Chaplain Dreadnaughts? I know they're not on Forgeworld anymore but they're out there on eBay. Character walkers with some nice fire power and buffs sounds pretty good to me

I have been intrigued with the Chaplain Dreadnought for a while. I would want to give it a twin lascannon and protect the backfield or have it walk up behind a veteran squad kitted out for durability. Those two lascannon shots would be near invulnerable to return fire since it has the character rule. It’s expensive though, just under 200pts.