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Elfric wrote: Any thoughts on Chaplain Dreadnaughts? I know they're not on Forgeworld anymore but they're out there on eBay. Character walkers with some nice fire power and buffs sounds pretty good to me
I have been intrigued with the Chaplain Dreadnought for a while. I would want to give it a twin lascannon and protect the backfield or have it walk up behind a veteran squad kitted out for durability. Those two lascannon shots would be near invulnerable to return fire since it has the character rule. It’s expensive though, just under 200pts.
In the long run it's just too expensive. My current list uses 3× Ven Dreads with the TLLas and ML, and then a Terminator Captain with a Relic Blade and Dominus Aegis. That's definitely cheaper for the firepower and arguably better durability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/21 03:04:43
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I can't see any reason to take Stalker Bolters on DW Intercessors with the Beta rule.
Bolt Rifles will get 2 shots if you remain stationary and SIA gives you the extra range/AP if needed.
The problem is that bikers and terminators in a veteran squad only have the infantry keyword. So until they faq a biker to have the bike keyword and the terminator to have terminator keyword they won’t be able to benifit for the new bolter rule.
Yes they do have those keywords for the purpose of being inside a transport but that does not count for what they are for rules currently.
Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IVIOOSE wrote: The problem is that bikers and terminators in a veteran squad only have the infantry keyword. So until they faq a biker to have the bike keyword and the terminator to have terminator keyword they won’t be able to benifit for the new bolter rule.
Yes they do have those keywords for the purpose of being inside a transport but that does not count for what they are for rules currently.
It’s very RAW not RAI
Ick, that's a good point. If DW can use the current keywording to drive bikes thru terrain regular bikes can't, they can't use the bike keyword to bolter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 00:26:11
bort wrote: Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet....
If the idea of a melee Kill-Team really appeals to you, maybe, but everything a Kill-Team does at range so wildly outclasses what they do in melee I find there isn't really much point.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/22 00:43:37
zedsdead wrote: Incoming new Bolter rule making DW even better. Bikes and Termies in vet squads = real good.
Wait, they won't benefit all the time right? They only have the Terminator and Biker keywords for transport purposes. So they'll only get the bonus the other vets would, not all the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 00:39:11
bort wrote: Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet....
If the idea of a melee Kill-Team really appeals to you, maybe, but everything a Kill-Team does at range so wildly outclasses what they do in melee I find there isn't really much point.
bort wrote: Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet.
I used to always add one since it was free and HI was never a bad thing when you could fall back and shoot. Extra movement, and sometimes a free round of combat since the opponent couldn't attack if the unit wasn't originally declared as a charge target. Since the combat phase is so useful for extra movement and shutting down my opponent's shooting, and I was already really close anyway, an extra 3 attack model with a power weapon was always valuable.
I think he's still worth it, but not the auto include he once was for me. If I need to shave a few points, I think he'd be the first to go.
bort wrote: Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet.
I used to always add one since it was free and HI was never a bad thing when you could fall back and shoot. Extra movement, and sometimes a free round of combat since the opponent couldn't attack if the unit wasn't originally declared as a charge target. Since the combat phase is so useful for extra movement and shutting down my opponent's shooting, and I was already really close anyway, an extra 3 attack model with a power weapon was always valuable.
I think he's still worth it, but not the auto include he once was for me. If I need to shave a few points, I think he'd be the first to go.
...Aaah, that's what I always forget about, the fact that you can't be swung at unless declared as a target. I kept putting them in my list and then later I'd forget again and I'd have a fear in the back of my mind like, wait, what if he gets me HIing something I'd have rather skipped a few swings at cause it's gonna hurt too much?
bort wrote: Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IVIOOSE wrote: The problem is that bikers and terminators in a veteran squad only have the infantry keyword. So until they faq a biker to have the bike keyword and the terminator to have terminator keyword they won’t be able to benifit for the new bolter rule.
Yes they do have those keywords for the purpose of being inside a transport but that does not count for what they are for rules currently.
It’s very RAW not RAI
Ick, that's a good point. If DW can use the current keywording to drive bikes thru terrain regular bikes can't, they can't use the bike keyword to bolter.
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 02:49:48
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
I think Stalkers are just AP0 aren't they?
Also nice to remember this rule with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator Captain with the Bane Bolts. 4 shots all the time is pretty darn good and gives more incentive to use that particular Relic.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
I think Stalkers are just AP0 aren't they?
Also nice to remember this rule with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator Captain with the Bane Bolts. 4 shots all the time is pretty darn good and gives more incentive to use that particular Relic.
Stalker is AP-1 I'm 100%. I just checked And I agree using the bane bolts in a captain wth storm bolter is awesome. So would using my watch masters guardian spear with castellan of black vault. 2 shots @ 30" -2 3dmg with kraken rds.
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
Oh, oops, looks like I forgot to quote what I was referencing. Someone had suggested the stalkers as now they'd get 4 shots. I was saying they're not rapid fire.
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
I think Stalkers are just AP0 aren't they?
Also nice to remember this rule with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator Captain with the Bane Bolts. 4 shots all the time is pretty darn good and gives more incentive to use that particular Relic.
Stalker is AP-1 I'm 100%. I just checked And I agree using the bane bolts in a captain wth storm bolter is awesome. So would using my watch masters guardian spear with castellan of black vault. 2 shots @ 30" -2 3dmg with kraken rds.
Ah okay. It's been a while since I've looked at the codex.
I like the point you bring up with the D3 Watch Master spear, but ultimately the number of shots from the Storm Bolter will go further.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Between the points drops and today's changes I'm real tempted to try Terminators as more than squad upgrades.
5 dropping into cover (ideally on or near an objective) and being able to fire 20 SIA shots at 24" sounds pretty nice for 155.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Eldarain wrote: Between the points drops and today's changes I'm real tempted to try Terminators as more than squad upgrades.
5 dropping into cover (ideally on or near an objective) and being able to fire 20 SIA shots at 24" sounds pretty nice for 155.
It certainly sounds promising, and a possible competition for Aggressors, but I'm not entirely sold. Will probably try a few, but I dont expect miracles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 12:59:45
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
I think Stalkers are just AP0 aren't they?
Also nice to remember this rule with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator Captain with the Bane Bolts. 4 shots all the time is pretty darn good and gives more incentive to use that particular Relic.
Stalker is AP-1 I'm 100%. I just checked And I agree using the bane bolts in a captain wth storm bolter is awesome. So would using my watch masters guardian spear with castellan of black vault. 2 shots @ 30" -2 3dmg with kraken rds.
Ah okay. It's been a while since I've looked at the codex.
I like the point you bring up with the D3 Watch Master spear, but ultimately the number of shots from the Storm Bolter will go further.
Ironically my lists always have both the watch master with castellan and the captain with SB and bane bolts. Ocassionally I'll add in a SB librarian.
bort wrote: Too bad the stalker bolters are heavy and not rapid fire.
Why does this matter? They are two shots anyway at 30" range and -1. With kraken rds they shoot out to 36" and become -2. They are better then the bolters when stationary which is what the new rule benefits. Staying still and shooting twice at full range. The stalker is better. The gunvthat I think really gets a boost is stormbolters. Shooting 4 shots at 24" is nice with SIA.
I think Stalkers are just AP0 aren't they?
Also nice to remember this rule with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator Captain with the Bane Bolts. 4 shots all the time is pretty darn good and gives more incentive to use that particular Relic.
Stalker is AP-1 I'm 100%. I just checked And I agree using the bane bolts in a captain wth storm bolter is awesome. So would using my watch masters guardian spear with castellan of black vault. 2 shots @ 30" -2 3dmg with kraken rds.
Ah okay. It's been a while since I've looked at the codex.
I like the point you bring up with the D3 Watch Master spear, but ultimately the number of shots from the Storm Bolter will go further.
Ironically my lists always have both the watch master with castellan and the captain with SB and bane bolts. Ocassionally I'll add in a SB librarian.
I'm super confused by this whole conversation. I just checked the Intercessor datasheet and Stalker bolt rifles are 36" Heavy 1 AP-2. Are you guys talking about a different Stalker bolter? Because the Intercessor one is basically pointless now that a regular Bolt Rifle can stand still and get 2 shots at 36" AP-2 using Kraken rounds. That's double the shots at the same range and AP
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 14:25:59
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
1500
And I agree using the bane bolts in a captain 
