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 AnomanderRake wrote:


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bort wrote:
Does anyone bother with a Black Shield? The fact you're forced to heroic intervene always worries me and now they aren't even the same price as a regular Vet....

If the idea of a melee Kill-Team really appeals to you, maybe, but everything a Kill-Team does at range so wildly outclasses what they do in melee I find there isn't really much point.

...."The 8th Edition Story"

 Galef wrote:
Thanx for the clarification. Why GW has so many similarly named things kinda bothers me. Just cut the fat already.

-

I just assume in the Deathwatch thread that Stalker will always refer to the Bolter rather than the Bolt Rifle, as the latter is so bad why bother discussing it?

IVIOOSE wrote:
The problem is that bikers and terminators in a veteran squad only have the infantry keyword. So until they faq a biker to have the bike keyword and the terminator to have terminator keyword they won’t be able to benifit for the new bolter rule.

Yes they do have those keywords for the purpose of being inside a transport but that does not count for what they are for rules currently.

It’s very RAW not RAI

So word im getting is this is a mistake or the Mixed unit rule in the datasheet for Vets allows them to keep the key word. Unfortunatly i dont have the rule to read at the moment. Anyone confirm that ?

As written they only use the Keyword when embarking on transports.

That's why you should send a nicely worded, professional email to the GW rules team and ask what the interaction is between the new Bolter rule and mixed unit Kill Teams.

 zedsdead wrote:

So word im getting is this is a mistake or the Mixed unit rule in the datasheet for Vets allows them to keep the key word. Unfortunatly i dont have the rule to read at the moment. Anyone confirm that ?

I just looked at the Codex. It's not ambiguous. Mixed Units doesnt add keywords in any situation other than embarking on transports, and thus Vet squads (and their component parts) will only trigger this if they're immobile.

FAQing or house ruling is required.

All I know is I hit the jackpot when I talked to my buddy that has like 10 armies. He has veritable F***tons of Storm Bolters he is not using so I am picking them up for almost nothing to make more vets.

Hi guys.

I am starting to with Deatwatch. Yesterday I had my first match with them against Tyranid on a 1K match in a small table with a really bad deployment (corner 9" from the center).

I played with 2 vet mixed squads, 5 man intercesor, 3 man Inceptors, 2 Cpt and 2 Dreads. I lost. I had the feeling being lost with SIA and Strats and Tactics, but this will be more easy next games.

I was thinking, when I play my next matches to 1.500 wich is the normal for us, to add an Battalion of my Ultras; a Libby, Telion and 3 squad scouts with bolter for board control.

Would it be good or should I spend more points in different thing for the Ultra Battalion?

If you want a Battalion, add one that compliments your army.

Ultramarines add nothing unless you plan to use Scouts and that's it. If you're just looking at CP, there are several better ways to get it.

Sterling191 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
Incoming new Bolter rule making DW even better. Bikes and Termies in vet squads = real good.

Combat squad bikers are gonna be insane with that. 12 shots out to 30" no matter what? Oi.

Turn up the Lulz by giving your biker Sgt a Storm Bolter for an extra 4 shots. 3 Models pumping out 16 shots at 30"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you want a Battalion, add one that compliments your army.

Ultramarines add nothing unless you plan to use Scouts and that's it. If you're just looking at CP, there are several better ways to get it.

I know, but I just want some more units in and extra CP. I feel more confident if I have some units for board control, and my SM army are Ultras. Also it gives me a Libby for support my Deathwatch.Scouts are cheap, and with the new Bolter betta Rule they give me a couple of extra shots if they remain in their place. I just want them for denie a litle bit my rival the middle of the board. I will just deploy them in somewhere in the middle.

The new Custodes rules raise some very interesting ally options. I think the Leviathan just got some competition.

Sterling191 wrote:
The new Custodes rules raise some very interesting ally options. I think the Leviathan just got some competition.

What new rules, exactly?

There’s a new FW rules pdf linked in the Custodes thread.

If you’re talking about that Telemon dread, isn’t it too expensive? I only briefly skimmed before heading to work, but I think the storm cannon version gets fewer shots at damage 1 instead of 2 and the unit as a whole is still like 270 pts. Upside being you can use the gun as essentially a twin las as well, but there’s cheaper dreads for 2 twin las.

Yeah, I think Ven Dreads will still be the best bang for our buck in the meantime for strict anti-tank.

Storm Cannon Telemon is 274 points with the same defensive line as a Leviathan, doesn't have the Relic rule, and in its AT configuration rerolls wounds against vehicles as well as does flat damage out to three times the range.

Plus it can be teleported in alongside three DW units since they utilize different deep strike strats.

Different preferred targets for sure, but it's worth a look IMO.

bort wrote:
There’s a new FW rules pdf linked in the Custodes thread.

If you’re talking about that Telemon dread, isn’t it too expensive? I only briefly skimmed before heading to work, but I think the storm cannon version gets fewer shots at damage 1 instead of 2 and the unit as a whole is still like 270 pts. Upside being you can use the gun as essentially a twin las as well, but there’s cheaper dreads for 2 twin las.

There is also inherent value in a unit that has weapons that can do both anti-horde and anti tank. A missile twin Las dread might be more efficient per point against a vehicle, but roll up against a horde and it's little more than dead weight.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

bort wrote:
There’s a new FW rules pdf linked in the Custodes thread.

If you’re talking about that Telemon dread, isn’t it too expensive? I only briefly skimmed before heading to work, but I think the storm cannon version gets fewer shots at damage 1 instead of 2 and the unit as a whole is still like 270 pts. Upside being you can use the gun as essentially a twin las as well, but there’s cheaper dreads for 2 twin las.

There is also inherent value in a unit that has weapons that can do both anti-horde and anti tank. A missile twin Las dread might be more efficient per point against a vehicle, but roll up against a horde and it's little more than dead weight.

We aren't lacking anti-horde in this army at its base, you realize, right?

How are people finding primaris Intercessors with the new beta rule ?

Drager wrote:
How are people finding primaris Intercessors with the new beta rule ?

Still not played with the beta rule yet. But, it will only works with them when remain static, and static for Deathwatch is not a good option or at les not the best one. For me it is more for Termis and Bikers. In my next game I will not only use one bike for the veterans, instead I will use a bike squad just because tje rule.

Alex_85 wrote:

Drager wrote:
How are people finding primaris Intercessors with the new beta rule ?

Still not played with the beta rule yet. But, it will only works with them when remain static, and static for Deathwatch is not a good option or at les not the best one. For me it is more for Termis and Bikers. In my next game I will not only use one bike for the veterans, instead I will use a bike squad just because tje rule.

I've found it to be great so far. Makes my Intercessors camping in my deployment zone great. Its a different style, but I think static is good for them.

Hey guys,

Keen to get back into 40k and looking to do DW/Inq mixed force. Basically a mix of Kill Teams, Dreads, Scions (counts as Inq Stormies) and maybe an Assassin or two.

Is it possible to make the Tempestus Drop Force work with DW? I love the idea of Scions dropping out of the Valkyries, but do they bring anything to the table we don't already do well?

MSU Scions and Command Squads make great CP batteries to support teleport Vet squads when kitted with plasma.

Welp, I played my first game with the beta rule and all I can say is "I was very very very very wrong."

Vets with storm bolters parked in ruins are so good it isn't even funny. Initially I was thinking "but we already have the Stalker for that/Oh this is a buff to Intercessors not so much vets/But the vets will just deep strike" and OH BOY was I 100% wrong about that.

I played a 1500 point list with one squad having stalkers and missiles and the others having storm bolters and a couple combi-plasmas with accompanying power weapon/sb termies and loads of storm shields all around, plus a couple las/missile vendreads, and I just went for a "Park in ruins and gunline it out" strategy.

My opponent had Tau, so initially was totally happy with that setup. Until turn 1, when a grand total of one terminator and a half died to his fire warriors and broadsides, then the Deathwatch returned fire at 30" range and wiped 25 fire warriors and most of the drones on the field.

Then turn 2 happened, and 2 commanders and 6 crisis suits killed 4 guys with storm shields, and then the deathwatch returned fire and charged and killed all those guys.

By turn 4, the Tau were tabled and I'd lost one dreadnought, 6 stormshields and 2 terminators, in a straight up static gunline fight against Tau at mostly 30" range.

Holy flipping moly storm bolters are broken.

the_scotsman wrote:
Welp, I played my first game with the beta rule and all I can say is "I was very very very very wrong."

Vets with storm bolters parked in ruins are so good it isn't even funny. Initially I was thinking "but we already have the Stalker for that/Oh this is a buff to Intercessors not so much vets/But the vets will just deep strike" and OH BOY was I 100% wrong about that.

I played a 1500 point list with one squad having stalkers and missiles and the others having storm bolters and a couple combi-plasmas with accompanying power weapon/sb termies and loads of storm shields all around, plus a couple las/missile vendreads, and I just went for a "Park in ruins and gunline it out" strategy.

My opponent had Tau, so initially was totally happy with that setup. Until turn 1, when a grand total of one terminator and a half died to his fire warriors and broadsides, then the Deathwatch returned fire at 30" range and wiped 25 fire warriors and most of the drones on the field.

Then turn 2 happened, and 2 commanders and 6 crisis suits killed 4 guys with storm shields, and then the deathwatch returned fire and charged and killed all those guys.

By turn 4, the Tau were tabled and I'd lost one dreadnought, 6 stormshields and 2 terminators, in a straight up static gunline fight against Tau at mostly 30" range.

Holy flipping moly storm bolters are broken.

Thanks for the breakdown!

And my irrational hatred for the storm bolter in DW continues.

Lemondish wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Welp, I played my first game with the beta rule and all I can say is "I was very very very very wrong."

Vets with storm bolters parked in ruins are so good it isn't even funny. Initially I was thinking "but we already have the Stalker for that/Oh this is a buff to Intercessors not so much vets/But the vets will just deep strike" and OH BOY was I 100% wrong about that.

I played a 1500 point list with one squad having stalkers and missiles and the others having storm bolters and a couple combi-plasmas with accompanying power weapon/sb termies and loads of storm shields all around, plus a couple las/missile vendreads, and I just went for a "Park in ruins and gunline it out" strategy.

My opponent had Tau, so initially was totally happy with that setup. Until turn 1, when a grand total of one terminator and a half died to his fire warriors and broadsides, then the Deathwatch returned fire at 30" range and wiped 25 fire warriors and most of the drones on the field.

Then turn 2 happened, and 2 commanders and 6 crisis suits killed 4 guys with storm shields, and then the deathwatch returned fire and charged and killed all those guys.

By turn 4, the Tau were tabled and I'd lost one dreadnought, 6 stormshields and 2 terminators, in a straight up static gunline fight against Tau at mostly 30" range.

Holy flipping moly storm bolters are broken.

Thanks for the breakdown!

And my irrational hatred for the storm bolter in DW continues.

Yeah, midway through the game I was just like

"Huh, you know, I could be comparing the pros and cons of this weapon vs other weapons but feth it, this one DOUBLES MY FIREPOWER for basically no points at 30" range, and I get to have a 3++ along with it."

feth the shotgun, boltgun, stalker boltgun, heavy bolter, intercessors in general, assault cannon, combi-weapons, and pretty much every other option, they're all made obsolete by this gun that lets me sit in cover and spew out 4 shots at 30" range.

Eh the Stalker still has niche uses. The real problem is the super cheap SS; I mean, the model used to be 23 points and now at only 20 you have no real reason to not pick up the SS unless you don't have that many models laying around.

I'm also still annoyed the Shotgun didn't go down a point.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eh the Stalker still has niche uses.

Feth the stalker - go with the storm bolter, you'll have more flexibility and mobility without affecting your firepower, something a low model count army needs.

Feth the shotgun, even at 1 point less it still wouldn't compete with the storm bolter.

Feth the entire Primaris line, Vets are superior due to storm shields and storm bolters.

The storm bolter is worth selecting on every non character model that can carry one, and often times for characters too. A weapon not even included in the bloody kit. What a joke.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eh the Stalker still has niche uses. The real problem is the super cheap SS; I mean, the model used to be 23 points and now at only 20 you have no real reason to not pick up the SS unless you don't have that many models laying around.

I'm also still annoyed the Shotgun didn't go down a point.

If you can call "the range band between 31" and 36"" a niche use then....okay.

I think I'd much rather have double the firepower than go from 30" to 36" range, thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eh the Stalker still has niche uses.

Feth the stalker - go with the storm bolter, you'll have more flexibility and mobility without affecting your firepower, something a low model count army needs.

Feth the shotgun, even at 1 point less it still wouldn't compete with the storm bolter.

Feth the entire Primaris line, Vets are superior due to storm shields and storm bolters.

The storm bolter is worth selecting on every non character model that can carry one, and often times for characters too. A weapon not even included in the bloody kit. What a joke.

Sternguard kit is the new Deathwatch Veteran kit :p

My entire grey knight "army" has somehow lost all of their storm bolters and I still don't have enough.

I agree the new rule is awesome. I was playing this weekend without it and being able to reach out and touch enemy models 30" away after I've destroyed whatever I deepstruck close to would have completely changed my games. Add in a unit of primaris in the backfield being able to put meaningful firepower on stuff 36" away and things would have gone a lot differently.

I still didn't have an answer for wave serpent spam and without a unit of bikes I felt really immobile so I think I should experiment with the vets+bikers+VVs kill team to have some good shooting, obsec and fast units. Just got to find 100 points somewhere (relic tax on leviathan sucks).

Much as I love my Primaris and stalker rifles on Vets, the beta bolters is the nail in the coffin. The weight of Fire bonus for storm bolters out to full range is simply too big of an advantage to give up.