Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Galef wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
It seems like a decent sized unit or two of bikes with the SIA and new bolter rules would be very good in a DW list.

Maybe, but you trade ObSec for it since you have to run the Fast Attack. Bikes in Vet units do not have the Biker keyword

-

I'd wager people have sent them emails about it, and we need to keep doing so until they publish an answer.

Sterling191 wrote:


Still, 75 points for 12 SIA shots out to 24/30 inches at all times is nothing to sneeze at.

This is what I was thinking. Maybe 5 bikes, give em bolt pistols, and the serg a storm bolter. Super mobile, keeping them at that 24-30" range. They get like 24 SIA shots at 24-30" and 28 shots of you want to bring them within 12" all for like 129 points.

bobafett012 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:


Still, 75 points for 12 SIA shots out to 24/30 inches at all times is nothing to sneeze at.

This is what I was thinking. Maybe 5 bikes, give em bolt pistols, and the serg a storm bolter. Super mobile, keeping them at that 24-30" range. They get like 24 SIA shots at 24-30" and 28 shots of you want to bring them within 12" all for like 129 points.

How 28 shots at 12"?

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:


Still, 75 points for 12 SIA shots out to 24/30 inches at all times is nothing to sneeze at.

This is what I was thinking. Maybe 5 bikes, give em bolt pistols, and the serg a storm bolter. Super mobile, keeping them at that 24-30" range. They get like 24 SIA shots at 24-30" and 28 shots of you want to bring them within 12" all for like 129 points.

How 28 shots at 12"?

24 shots from the bolter's on the bikes and the sargs storm bolter and another 4 from bolt pistols if you're within 12". That correct or do I have something wrong? Either way, it seems like 24 SIA shots at 24-30" is really good

Can't shoot pistols and other weapons in the same phase. It's either/or. Same with grenades. So 24 shots, and yes it's still good.

A good cheap unit is 3 bikes, sarg has storm shield and storm Bolter, Homer bike and vanilla bike have chainswords. 81 points. For mono-codex they are great screen units that don't die easy and put out decent firepower.

Having the extra homing beacons is nice too, often means I have like 5-6 beacons in my backfield to pull back vet squads if needed.

Anyone tried a refused flank tactic using homing beacons? Deploy evenly across your deployment zone, then teleport half your squads over to the opposite side turn 1 to overload one half of the board?

Are Biker Sergeants allowed Storm Shields? I had no idea.

they can take a storm shield, but they cant take the SB and the SS at the same time unless they are veterans on a bike which DW happen to be along with command squads. Regular marine bikers only get 1 weapon/gear choice.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:


Anyone tried a refused flank tactic using homing beacons? Deploy evenly across your deployment zone, then teleport half your squads over to the opposite side turn 1 to overload one half of the board?

It's a tactical approach I use pretty regularly against death star lists, especially slower death stars, albeit relying more on fast baseline movement than porting squads, but it's an asset to not take lightly.

Any scenario wherein you can bring the bulk of your force against a component of your opponent's, while at the same time denying the rest of their force the opportunity to engage your units gives you a sizeable advantage. We tend to play with a lot of terrain at my LGS, so fast units can shoot n scoot with possibly more success than at other tables so YMMV.

With the Beta Bolter rule Bikes are even more interesting. Instead of having one in my squads I now have two. I will try them tomorrow since my last game was a month ago. Will also have for first time in 8th my LR Crusader with Chronus in my Ultramarines Battalion just for use it one time.

But Bikers are now a must have.

Alex_85 wrote:
With the Beta Bolter rule Bikes are even more interesting. Instead of having one in my squads I now have two. I will try them tomorrow since my last game was a month ago. Will also have for first time in 8th my LR Crusader with Chronus in my Ultramarines Battalion just for use it one time.

But Bikers are now a must have.

Keep in mind, Bikes and Terminators in Veteran squads do not benefit from the Beta Bolter rules while on the move.

Sterling191 wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
With the Beta Bolter rule Bikes are even more interesting. Instead of having one in my squads I now have two. I will try them tomorrow since my last game was a month ago. Will also have for first time in 8th my LR Crusader with Chronus in my Ultramarines Battalion just for use it one time.

But Bikers are now a must have.

Keep in mind, Bikes and Terminators in Veteran squads do not benefit from the Beta Bolter rules while on the move.

Oh no, thats true. Damn I was too excited. That's not nice. Have to rethink my list. I will probably then just leave the teleport horner biker and use those 25 points for something else.

Thanks for the advice, I would be cheating if you didn't say it.

Quick question: Can a FW Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought (HQ) get a warlord trait? It does get the Deathwatch keyword, so I think it won't be an issue to make him a warlord? And if so, do you think Bane of Monstrosities would be a proper choice?

Sterling191 wrote:
The bigger issue is the inability to include cheap VVs as ablative 3++ wounds, and the loss of fall back and shoot.

Still, 75 points for 12 SIA shots out to 24/30 inches at all times is nothing to sneeze at.

Add storm bolter and you got 16 shots.
I played 2 squads of 3 dudes. They were ok

bobafett012 wrote:
How are people modeling all these SBs on their Deathwatch if they aren't on the sprue? What SBs is everyone using?

Another question about vets squads, is it worth taking any of the non vets for the bonuses like the vanguard to get the fallback and shoot or a biker to fall back and charge etc? Seems like adding in Terminator with SB/SS wound be a good investment just to soak hits and put out 4 extra shots a turn.

I had a spare 25 or so mono pose terminators from assault on black reach that I acquired in trade and just lopped em off of them since they were just collecting dust. Well, all but the Sergeants with power swords, as they would be joining my new vets. For storm shields I had a bunch of spare bits of these angel insignias that are meant to dress up rhinos for dark Angel's or something.

I don't suppose we've heard any word on an Errata for the Terminators and Bikers stuck in Vet squads have we?

What have you all been doing to deal with smite spam? I played my brothers Tzeentch and Tsons army the other day and he has dropping 15 smites/ smite like spells a turn on me. My shooting was really hurt him the first two rds but then I had taken so many casualties by turn three I was then ineffective. He took 2 tzeentch lord of change, Fateweaver, 3 x 10 pink horrors, 2x10 rubric , and Ahriman. I was thinking of adding 4 squads of Sisters of silence for -1s to his casting, total of -4. Would be at least 200 pt though. Any thoughts?

The new Culexus?

Sisters of Battle. With the Brazier Relic they have an absolutely hellacious Deny capacity.

 Banesword wrote:
The new Culexus?

You need to take three then. They are actually not hard to kill with only a T4 5W despite only being hit on 6s. Three would be sufficient.

The character rule on Culexus is wasted if you go against TSons. Due to that many 24" psychic powers, so you need to put the Culexus forwards, and being prone to shoot / chop to death against thousands of attacks throw out from the TSons.

Sterling191 wrote:
Sisters of Battle. With the Brazier Relic they have an absolutely hellacious Deny capacity.

+1

Roughly 240 pts gets you 5 Deny attempts, and access to a strat that is a deny on a 4+.

Assassins are another option, with the new rules/strats that are coming out it gives you more to work with. The Culexus isn't very different from before but still very useful.

Also, adding bikes to your vet squads make for some spaces to put those MWs for less points per wound (12.5 ppw for a bike vs. 20 ppw for SS/SB vets).

Having a good screening force is also pretty crucial to soak up those MWs, don't expose them turn 1, move them out to screen out Smites turn 2 and 3, all the while your Deathwatch are taking a toll on his army.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Banesword wrote:
The new Culexus?

You need to take three then. They are actually not hard to kill with only a T4 5W despite only being hit on 6s. Three would be sufficient.

The character rule on Culexus is wasted if you go against TSons. Due to that many 24" psychic powers, so you need to put the Culexus forwards, and being prone to shoot / chop to death against thousands of attacks throw out from the TSons.

Not hard to kill? Wanna run the math on that real quick?

deathwatch/Knight/Guard plus 85pts put aside for an assassin looks to be a wonderful thing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Banesword wrote:
The new Culexus?

You need to take three then. They are actually not hard to kill with only a T4 5W despite only being hit on 6s. Three would be sufficient.

The character rule on Culexus is wasted if you go against TSons. Due to that many 24" psychic powers, so you need to put the Culexus forwards, and being prone to shoot / chop to death against thousands of attacks throw out from the TSons.

Not hard to kill? Wanna run the math on that real quick?

5 Wounds
10 D1 wounds needed to be dealt due to a 4+ Invuln
20 S4 hits are needed due to T4
120 Shots, since he's hit on 6s.

Pretty damn durable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Banesword wrote:
The new Culexus?

You need to take three then. They are actually not hard to kill with only a T4 5W despite only being hit on 6s. Three would be sufficient.

The character rule on Culexus is wasted if you go against TSons. Due to that many 24" psychic powers, so you need to put the Culexus forwards, and being prone to shoot / chop to death against thousands of attacks throw out from the TSons.

Not hard to kill? Wanna run the math on that real quick?

Tzaangors, rerolls all to hits against characters (which Culexus is), 4s to wound need to go through that 4++ means every 4 successful to hit would likely result in a losing wound. Math yields that without any kind of buff
the 30 strong Tzaangors would have 48.5% chances to deal 5W on Culexus. From the Culexus side when assessing his durability with a conservative approach, you should assume that he is dead with this probability, as you need to prepare that dice rolling would be against you.

When you count in the special rule Death of False Emperor, Prescience, Veteran of the Long War, etc., it can safely assume that the Culexus is dead.

Due to the above, I conclude that taking one of them is not enough to deal with TSons, you need to take 3 of tthem.

How many points is a 30 man Tzaangor squad again?

Guys can I ask a rule question please on a match I played last week. I was playing against Space Wolves. My Vanguard Veterans charged a Redemptor dreadnought. Bjorn then heroically intervened. The VV utterly destroy the Redemptor. They survive the attacks by Bjorn and consolidated around Bjorn. I then wanted to burn 3CP to fight again and attack Bjorn because it was the end of the fight phase but my opponent said I couldnt do that because I didn't declare Bjorn as part of my charge? Was he correct?

 Elfric wrote:
Guys can I ask a rule question please on a match I played last week. I was playing against Space Wolves. My Vanguard Veterans charged a Redemptor dreadnought. Bjorn then heroically intervened. The VV utterly destroy the Redemptor. They survive the attacks by Bjorn and consolidated around Bjorn. I then wanted to burn 3CP to fight again and attack Bjorn because it was the end of the fight phase but my opponent said I couldnt do that because I didn't declare Bjorn as part of my charge? Was he correct?

He was correct.

ItsPug wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Guys can I ask a rule question please on a match I played last week. I was playing against Space Wolves. My Vanguard Veterans charged a Redemptor dreadnought. Bjorn then heroically intervened. The VV utterly destroy the Redemptor. They survive the attacks by Bjorn and consolidated around Bjorn. I then wanted to burn 3CP to fight again and attack Bjorn because it was the end of the fight phase but my opponent said I couldnt do that because I didn't declare Bjorn as part of my charge? Was he correct?

He was correct.

Slight amendment: You CAN use the stratagem to Fight Again, but you can't target Bjorn, since he was not a charge target.

Okay thanks guys, one of those gotcha moments

 Elfric wrote:
Okay thanks guys, one of those gotcha moments

Those are the best, you won't ever forget it so lesson learned!