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Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

I think most folks with Primaris Deathwatch swapped to using rifles over the fast autobolt units simply because of Bolter Discipline, which naturally works best with a squad of Hellblasters.

But finding folks who play Primaris Deathwatch is hard because of how ridiculous the storm bolter vets are.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

I've been having a lot of fun with a couple squad loadouts. Also Combat Squading rather than always running big squads, as this basically lets you build 5 man tac squads with a couple specials. Great for MSU and board control.

Skirmish squads: Bolt Aggressors x2, Autobolters x8 (split into 2x 5 man combat squads each with an aggressor "sergeant"). These are my bread and butter, as they're fast and spit out a load of bolterfire. Hiding an Aggressor in each squad makes them live waaaaaay longer than non-deathwatch versions. Run them up to the midfield, then hunker down in some cover and doubleshoot with them. A single aggressor is easily a squad's worth of firepower by itself, and the autobolters are good at keeping range while maintaining a good rate of fire.

Tac Squads: Hellblasters x4, Bolt Rifles x6 (combat squaded with 2x hellblasters each). A good allrounder for sitting back and shooting things. Spreading the hellblasters out makes them live longer.

Deepstrike Squad: Hellblasters x4, Plasma Intercessor, 5x bolt rifles: A big beefy squad that you can deepstrike in and blow stuff up (bring a captain). Inceptor lets them fall back and shoot (if he doesnt melt himself, which is usually the case).

Would a battalion of RavenGuard Contemptor Dreads (3x) and VenDreads with ML & TL (2x) be considered „good/reliable“ AT for Deathwatch?

I know you can always go Knights/AM etc. but Id like to stay within the „design“ of marines

On another topic: Does anybody know/heard rumors when we get a release of infiltrators/eliminators etc. for DW?

Lemondish wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

I think most folks with Primaris Deathwatch swapped to using rifles over the fast autobolt units simply because of Bolter Discipline, which naturally works best with a squad of Hellblasters.

But finding folks who play Primaris Deathwatch is hard because of how ridiculous the storm bolter vets are.

I play them. I use the rifle. I didn't feel like kitbashing that many stormbolters when I wrote my list, and the them became "no 1 W models". It's a DW/IK list.

Martel732 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

I think most folks with Primaris Deathwatch swapped to using rifles over the fast autobolt units simply because of Bolter Discipline, which naturally works best with a squad of Hellblasters.

But finding folks who play Primaris Deathwatch is hard because of how ridiculous the storm bolter vets are.

I play them. I use the rifle. I didn't feel like kitbashing that many stormbolters when I wrote my list, and the them became "no 1 W models". It's a DW/IK list.

I like Primaris DW, don't get me wrong - I'm just saying that the meta definitely transitioned into mixed Vet squads over mixed Primaris squads.

Good on you for sticking with it.

I run a big unit that deepstrikes with 5 intercessors, 3 X aggressors and an inceptor which really is very effective when it comes in with a captain and a squad of inceptors too.

However I am absolutely terrible at remembering how the special rules effect the squad. I played chaos/Daemon army recently and my squad got locked in combat by a Daemon chariot thing and I 100% forgot that they could leave combat and still fire fire to the inceptor!!

All of my squads have one inceptor, and my big squad have two inceptors so they get the T5.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Finally able to get back in with my Primaris deathwatch, but the last time I played was before Bolter Discipline and the latest point drops/knight nerfs. How are people running Primaris Deathwatch these days? Are people still teleporting a bunch of Dreadnoughts in now that the turn 1 deploy from reserves is gone?

I haven't changed much. Either Bolt Rifles with Hellblasters and a Plasma Inceptor or Auto Bolt Rifles with Aggressors and a Bolt Inceptor. There was a brief time when Bolter Discipline largely invalidated the latter group and I was better off with a more static Aggressor unit, but those two styles have generally worked well for me. I'll actually generally take 1 of each of those and some Storm Bolter Veterans for my third.

Any help here?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778043.page

 bullyboy wrote:
Any help here?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778043.page

I'd hate saying that first poster is right given their reputation, but GW has made it clear that movement is done as a single fluid step, so there is no chance to interrupt or mechanism to do so. The Strategem doesn't give you the ability so you can only trigger it after the move finishes.

There have been similar discussions in which people tried to argue they could trigger near-infinite copies of after-movement bonuses by moving their model a millimeter at a time.

I guess I haven't seen the discussions on movement interruption before.

What do you guys think of the new Primaris Executioner tank?

Double executioner with either plasma or the laser with Watch Master standing around with Tomb of Ectocaldes viable?

Not the with the price bump.

 fr3ddy wrote:
What do you guys think of the new Primaris Executioner tank?

Double executioner with either plasma or the laser with Watch Master standing around with Tomb of Ectocaldes viable?

It was already overcosted so a 31 point price bump makes it pretty bad, actually.

I'd avoid it.

Overcosted...maybe....Im finding myself wanting to try 3x Repulsor Executioner though....

Sit back killing Armor/Knights with those sweet sweet Laser Destroyers (12 friggin shots) while your watchmaster hangs out hiding outside and sporting his Dominus Aegis for that 5++ and making the tanks super accurate. Tactics vs Lord of war OR strategem and you are looking at dropping a Castellen in a single turn with a bit of luck.

I think they are worth looking at...we pay a premium for everything anyway.

You can’t take the Aegis on a Watch Master. It requires a model to have a storm shield.

So you’ve just invested 1200 points minimum to knock down a Knight level chassis. Congratulations?

Yeah it's limited to models with SS only. You could just do Ven Dreads and a Captain instead.

Sterling191 wrote:


So you’ve just invested 1200 points minimum to knock down a Knight level chassis. Congratulations?

Well, considering if you one-shot the enemy castellen turn 1...youve just created a 2000pt vs 1300 pt game. i.e., youve won.....

Laser Destroyers are Heavy 1d3 (2d3 if you stand still or move less than half), S12, AP-4, Dd6 (min 3) right?

12 shots
32/3 hits
64/9 wounds
32/9 unsaved
128/9 damage, or 14.22 damage.

You ain't one-rounding a Castellan with that barring some pretty INSANE luck.

With Master and correct tactics, 11-12 wounding hits is easy to get.

Its heavy 2, not d3.

6 wounding hits get thru halving for 4++

Thats 18 Damage minimum. Bad luck for wounding.

Your math is wrong.

 Blue Falcon wrote:
With Master and correct tactics, 11-12 wounding hits is easy to get.

Its heavy 2, not d3.

6 wounding hits get thru halving for 4++

Thats 18 Damage minimum. Bad luck for wounding.

Your math is wrong.

12 shots, then, guaranteed, not average.
8/9 shots hit, for 96/9 hits (simplified to 32/3) or 10.67 hits.
Wounding on 3s, no rerolls, is 64/9 wounds or 7.11. I forgot to apply the Chapter Tactic, true, but that REQUIRES the Tome (since they don't normally get it), and only increases the damage to 7/9 instead of 2/3, for 224/27 or 8.30.
With a 4++, that's half of them negated, for 112/27 or 4.15.
At 4 damage on average, that's a little shy of 17 damage. Enough to bracket a Castellan, but CERTAINLY not enough to kill it.

Edit: I'm trying to figure out how you got your 6 unsaved wound figure.

That'd require 12 successful wounds on average, which is the number of shots you get.

Strategem and tactics create a 2+ to wound with a reroll.

Do you even play DW?

 Blue Falcon wrote:
Strategem and tactics create a 2+ to wound with a reroll.

Do you even play DW?

I don't a ton, but I am capable of seeing where you went wrong.

Even with a 2+ rerollable wound and a 3+ rerollable hit, each shot has an (8/9)*(35/36)*(1/2)=43.21% chance of going through. Except Strats are limited to once per phase, so you can't give it to all three Executioners.

But even if you COULD, you only average 5.19 unsaved wounds, which is (even with rounding) less than 6 by a wide margin. Not even enough to kill a Questoris Knight on average.

Edit: Doing math for two Repulsors at 3+ RRAll followed 3+ RR1s, and one at 3+ RRAll follwed by 2+ RR1s against a 4++ Castellan, gets me to...

1.73 unsaved from the buffed Repulsor and 2.77 unsaved from the unbuffed, for exactly 4.5 wounds going through, or 18 damage on average.

Edit II: Did a formula on Anydice, found here.

At an average of 4 damage per unsaved wound, 3 Repulsors by a Watch Master with the Tome and one buffed to wound on a 2+ have the following percents for damage:

Wounds Dealt..............Percent Chance
4..........................................99.65%
8..........................................97.11%
12........................................88.67%
16........................................71.73%
20........................................48.83%
24........................................26.90%
28........................................11.61%

Obviously not perfect odds, since the damage is 1d6 (Floor of 3) not 4, but close enough.

In other words, you have about a 10% chance of killing a Castellan, and about a 1/4 chance of killing a Questoris. BUT! You do have a damn-near 90% chance of bracketing a Questoris, and better than 70% odds of bracketing a Dominous class.

Now add in the heavy bolters and onslaughts with a threat range of 35-41". If you can get range with them, then it's job done: 4.6 damage with the strat-buffed executioner, 3.1 with the unbuffeds for an additional 10.8.

Big math dump incoming!

Repulsor Executioner has:
Laser Destroyer (fires twice)
2X Fragstorm Launchers
Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Ironhail Heavy Stubber
2X Storm Bolters
Twin Heavy Bolter
Twin Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber

For a total of, at 30" (assuming the Knight player is smart and DOESN'T expose their Castellan to every bit of fire)
4 S10 AP-4 Dd6 (Floor 3) shots
18 S5 AP-1 D1 shots
3 S4 AP-1 D1 shots
6 S4 AP-1 D1 shots hitting at -1

Which means an Executioner does...

1.38 Dd6 (Floor 3) wounds
3.11 (S5)+.26 (S4)+.39 (S4 at -1 hit) totals to 3.76 D1 wounds

Buffed with +1 to-wound, that increases to...

1.73 Dd6 (Floor 3) wounds
4.67 (S5)+.52 (S4)+.78 (S4 at -1 hit) totals to 5.97 D1 wounds

Which totals to, all said and done...

17.96 wounds from the big guns
13.49 wounds from the little guns

Or more than enough to kill a Castellan, even with poor damage rolls. Though that's 990 points to kill a cheaper model.

Now, going to anydice for odds of achieving specif results...

Wounds Dealt............Percentage Chance (Nearest Hundredth)
7-...........................................100%
12..........................................99.93%
14..........................................99.50%
18..........................................97.38%
21...........................................93.21%
24...........................................85.58%
28+.........................................69.47%

Why not just go for 3Contemptors with twin las instead?

Its way cheaper and you dont have to stick you Watchmaster with them since they hit on 2s
If you are a cheeky fellow you soup them as ravenguard for -1 to hit.
They do „almost“ the same dmg as the 3 executioners

So all Marines get an extra attack the first round of combat basically. This makes out gunslinging Bolt Pistol Vanguard into an even neater option than before.

I also prefer to let FW dreadnoughts handle my anti tank or soup in Leman Russes.



------------


So Deathwatch has the new Shock assault rule.

I think it could be pretty interesting for the Deathwatch since our kill teams will have more ways of making sure the +1 attack is active. They can have a ton of freedom when falling back, bikes can allow them to charge again, and Black shields give them Heroic Intervention (and have 4 attacks). Also that extra attack could give a little life to the Heavy Thunder hammer.

What are the odds of 5 Heavy Hammer Vanguard killing a Knight? Probably not fantastic but inquiring minds at work want to know